M1-4X: forced PvP

[Defecter]

I've read so many posts complaining about 'bads', but in this thread everyone is blaming the PvE guy for not wanting to PvP for a PvE companion and thus bringing in more 'bads'. If anything I would've thought PvPers would agree with not having to deal with PvE players in PvP content. Most PvE players don't even know how bolster works and join with a full set of 208+ PvE gear. Which in turns creates more posts in this forum complaining about 'bads'.

 

I just love the PvP forums.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Defecter

[DomiSotto]

PvPers are humans. That explains this apparent paradox and mostly everything else.

 

When we say: We want more players! what it actually means:

 

I want more good players on my side, so I always win without expending efforts to build a team.

 

Or, even simpler:

 

Why do I always lose?! I am SO AWESOME and don't DESERVE it!

Edited February 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[foxmob]

I am frustrated that i have to kill world bosses to get Qyzen Fess, but i just move on and postpone it for later. Gonna do it eventually over time.

 

I know this post is really old, but unless you have a guild willing to create an ops grp for you on call, it's a LOT easier just to run around Hoth for an hour killing cats and wampas specifically labeled as "worthy kills." they have what looks like "champion" level plates but they're about the same as a gold/elite mob.

 

there's a lot of stuff I don't like in this game. I'm happy about what they did wit legacy datacrons though.

 

one thing that bothers me is now that I've gone and gathered all these companions on one of my toons, I have about 20 companions but can still only send 6 at a time on crafting/gathering missions. do I think sending out 20 comps is reasonable? no. but it's a pain in the arse to sort through them so that I send out the ones with the highest influence all the time. like the pvp guy is always high for me. and lana. but then there's drelick dow there b/c he's the imperial memorabillia sink. 1st world problems, eh?

[Ruhun]

PvPers are humans. That explains this apparent paradox and mostly everything else.

 

When we say: We want more players! what it actually means:

 

I want more good players on my side, so I always win without expending efforts to build a team.

 

Or, even simpler:

 

Why do I always lose?! I am SO AWESOME and don't DESERVE it!

 

A player in 216s is just occupying a slot and giving the other team easy medals.

I don't get angry at them or mind it much, but it's true.

 

I don't want them in the match and they don't want to be in the match.

Easy solution would be to give them some other objective or free 190s for expertise.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ruhun

[DomiSotto]

That can be fixed by simply allowing to trade WZ comms for the companion. That allows the PvPers to get the comp that loves them simply for what they do (unprecedented awesomeness here, let's give Bio props), and for the beginners to grind the comms in low level PvP where the "gir" is of no concern, and the game is the entry-level.

 

It's good to have the rewards attached to starting PvP, since most players just won't, if there are none, but it would be nice if it encouraged beginning from the beginning. Honestly, if there was a pop-up that encouraged the player to start on another, low level character, if the Valor across the Legacy is below 40, playing up the Legacy aspect, it would have been nice.

 

My biggest dream in regards to the bolster would be a tab of PvP gear where you could put PvP suit. In the absence of such a suit, I'd just love the game bolster the char to the max-bolstered stats as if it had the 190 gear there.

 

I actually would not mind if the quest itself included two boxes with 190 gear handed to the toon with an express instruction to equip himself for the battle and a pop-up that it is more effective than high level PvE armor.

 

Displaying the broken red armor over the character portrait when the char is not bolstering and the warning would be nice too....

 

yes, yes, all of it would be super-nice.

 

That does not change the fact that in the end of the day what we like really want is an awesome pug that is awesome.

Edited February 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[EzioMessi]

That can be fixed by simply allowing to trade WZ comms for the companion. That allows the PvPers to get the comp that loves them simply for what they do (unprecedented awesomeness here, let's give Bio props), and for the beginners to grind the comms in low level PvP where the "gir" is of no concern, and the game is the entry-level.

 

It's good to have the rewards attached to starting PvP, since most players just won't, if there are none, but it would be nice if it encouraged beginning from the beginning. Honestly, if there was a pop-up that encouraged the player to start on another, low level character, if the Valor across the Legacy is below 40, playing up the Legacy aspect, it would have been nice.

 

My biggest dream in regards to the bolster would be a tab of PvP gear where you could put PvP suit. In the absence of such a suit, I'd just love the game bolster the char to the max-bolstered stats as if it had the 190 gear there.

 

I actually would not mind if the quest itself included two boxes with 190 gear handed to the toon with an express instruction to equip himself for the battle and a pop-up that it is more effective than high level PvE armor.

 

Displaying the broken red armor over the character portrait when the char is not bolstering and the warning would be nice too....

 

yes, yes, all of it would be super-nice.

 

That does not change the fact that in the end of the day what we like really want is an awesome pug that is awesome.

 

I really don't get why bolster is so complicated. Why didn't they just do a simple algorithm? Like <if no expertise in slot: then bolster to 190 tier with 2018 expertise. else: do nothing>. They could just ignore the mix maxing of gear and make it a flat value, to prevent over complication. Instead we have an overly complicated mess that penalizes people who didn't know how bolster works (and quite frankly, who does? The devs don't even know), because they genuinely think they're in the best hear possible while they just take 30k crits.

 

I understand the necessity of bolstering lower end PvE gear to a tier or two below the lowest PvP gear, but why PENALIZE the highest PvE gear that heavily? Just give everyone a 190 stat bolster in any warzone they enter, problem solved.

[DomiSotto]

I can only assume that is because BioWARE is under some delusion that high end PvE "gir" is competitive vs PvP "gir". There is no other possible explanation whatsoever. Or that Bolster has problems spinning ever downwards. PvP "gir" scales with the bolster on the ops like a charm. Edited February 6, 2016 by DomiSotto

[powergamer]

I think the best option is to be able to reject M1-4X if you don't want the character. Not have Theran Shan blinking in your alert bar for eternity.

[EzioMessi]

I think the best option is to be able to reject M1-4X if you don't want the character. Not have Theran Shan blinking in your alert bar for eternity.

 

Just like we can reject Qyzen, yeah. That's the most reasonable demand I've seen for M1-4X/Pierce. Allow rejection for them, like other companions, and make sure not to gate any stories or companions behind them.

[KaraPeters]

I don't mind ignoring his alert forever, as long as I know there's nothing gated behind him. But yeah, I'm crappy at PVP and there's no point in dragging a team down, so I'd just as soon be able to refuse him once and then not get the flashing fist anymore for him.

[Yorioko]

For those of us who have neither the will nor inclination to sod through the pharcical phantasy part of TOR known as PvP, but who apparently must do so in order to get M1-4X as a companion in 4.0, could you perhaps provide an alternate path?

 

I would suggest diverting player time and effort to that other part of TOR that you have lavished so much time and attention on: Space PvE. That way, those of us who have been sitting on Fleet Commendations for, well, longer than I'd care to say or you to hear, might actually get some use out of them besides shineys.

 

I like pvp, just not here on swtor, due to too many bad experiences, that being said I did go through that mission series, it took me a day.

 

I decide to just give a flying F in the pvp and the pvpers, knowing that it would cause some grief, though I would not go out of my way to sabotage, just not give 100%

I told people right away my intetions......I ma here for forex, but I will do my best to not be a burden, at the time I didn't have pvp gear.

Becuse it became appearent really quick that I needed gear, mostly in the hope that it would help lowering my match count, which is also did. So I took time between the matches, in which I instantly requeued to buy pvp gear.

As I said it took me less then a day, I made sure I checked out the pvp mission terminal as well seeing that 20 matches were less then Botha daily and a weeklu combined, and by doing them at the same time I would not only get Forex, but also more pvp gear, even though I maybe pvp 2-3% of my owerall time on line here , if that.

( that pvp set, 208 is easier to get actually then the pve sets, also the pve sets come with bonuses at a tier higher I think, maing actually the pvp 208 set extremely good for pve as well, so there is a reward PVE wise to actually do enough pvp to get a complete set ( including enough for auguments ) as the bonus provided is based on your skills, and don't depend on Expertise stat other in pvp zones, so the 208 pvp set is far superier to most pve sets even in pve becuse it is easier to get basically.

 

Anyways I finished up getting FOREX, before 20 matches was done and then I didn't have to think about it until I need Pierce on my Imp, and then I go about it the same way, only now I have the sets and will use them, to possibly make the matchcount even less.

 

But all in all, we pver like to call it forced, it really only feels and appear forced.

And getting Forex through 20 matches even by doing them all, if done all after one eachother then is done faster then most PVE OPS, and if you were to add a PVE similar requriement you'd spend a week if not more getting 20 2+ hour OPS, as oppsied to 20 15mins fights.

[Yorioko]

I don't mind ignoring his alert forever, as long as I know there's nothing gated behind him. But yeah, I'm crappy at PVP and there's no point in dragging a team down, so I'd just as soon be able to refuse him once and then not get the flashing fist anymore for him.

 

He is optional, I think like it appears you do as well that it appears that he CAN potentially be locking out a future alert.

I am actually not sure still if that is the case, so I can see why many choose to get him( them), and why it may feel needed and thus forced.

 

But like you I too am on the mindset it is optional, and thus I am inclined at least on other character to not recruit him.

 

However I do think actually recruting all possible members and comapanion can lead to some achivement so that alone is "worth" that 1 day it takes to get 20/20 matches done.

[power-alex]

What I don't understand is why ranked doesn't increase influence with pierce / forex.

Can we please fix that?

[Mikeieveli]

For those of us who have neither the will nor inclination to sod through the pharcical phantasy part of TOR known as PvP, but who apparently must do so in order to get M1-4X as a companion in 4.0, could you perhaps provide an alternate path?

 

I would suggest diverting player time and effort to that other part of TOR that you have lavished so much time and attention on: Space PvE. That way, those of us who have been sitting on Fleet Commendations for, well, longer than I'd care to say or you to hear, might actually get some use out of them besides shineys.

 

I agree with OP, you shouldnt be forced to PvP in order to get what you want. I agree there should be an alternative... but only if the inverse also is implemented. I shouldnt be forced to PvE in order get things. For all other companions I should be able to PvP to get them like M1-4X, I also should be able to do the planets dailies and heroics via PvP rather than PvE it as meant. Ohh and the most important thing, I should be able to get all PvE raid gear through PvP without ever stepping foot in a raid, as well as access to all the drops such as mounts. Make those things happen and you can have an alternate path to M1-4X.

[wainot-keel]

I agree with OP, you shouldnt be forced to PvP in order to get what you want. I agree there should be an alternative... but only if the inverse also is implemented. I shouldnt be forced to PvE in order get things. For all other companions I should be able to PvP to get them like M1-4X, I also should be able to do the planets dailies and heroics via PvP rather than PvE it as meant. Ohh and the most important thing, I should be able to get all PvE raid gear through PvP without ever stepping foot in a raid, as well as access to all the drops such as mounts. Make those things happen and you can have an alternate path to M1-4X.

 

Well, if he can make all that happen, then not only M1-4X will be available through other means but also all the ranked rewards as well, like with tactical flashpoints or some stuff like that, rofl... will you be cool with that too ?

[Mikeieveli]

Well, if he can make all that happen, then not only M1-4X will be available through other means but also all the ranked rewards as well, like with tactical flashpoints or some stuff like that, rofl... will you be cool with that too ?

 

Yeah I dont care. I dont PvP for rewards. That is honestly a PvE mentality. PvE is about new content and grinding to get the best gear, stats, thus playing your role the best. Perfection is only for the fights as a means to the previously stated end. PvP, is an altogether different beast. PvP is about perfection of playing your class, versus other people trying to do the same. Sometimes, especially with spec, you are at an advantage against someone else ie: assassin using force shroud against a force user, and how you keep that advantage to win. Sometimes you are at a disadvantage against someone else, ie: assassin using force shroud against a pure melee spec like combat sentinel. PvP is about mastery of your class versus others of the same level, or lower level, or above level.

 

Personally I hate it when new gear is put in place for PvP, i dont like to grind, which is part of the reason I dont PvP. But I understand its part of the game that is necessary for PvE and PvP has to relatively keep up with those gear levels.

 

In short, sure have the gear and rewards.

[wainot-keel]

Yeah I dont care. I dont PvP for rewards. That is honestly a PvE mentality. PvE is about new content and grinding to get the best gear, stats, thus playing your role the best. Perfection is only for the fights as a means to the previously stated end. PvP, is an altogether different beast. PvP is about perfection of playing your class, versus other people trying to do the same. Sometimes, especially with spec, you are at an advantage against someone else ie: assassin using force shroud against a force user, and how you keep that advantage to win. Sometimes you are at a disadvantage against someone else, ie: assassin using force shroud against a pure melee spec like combat sentinel. PvP is about mastery of your class versus others of the same level, or lower level, or above level.

 

Personally I hate it when new gear is put in place for PvP, i dont like to grind, which is part of the reason I dont PvP. But I understand its part of the game that is necessary for PvE and PvP has to relatively keep up with those gear levels.

 

In short, sure have the gear and rewards.

 

Sorry, this is quite a romantic view about what pvp is and the rewards related to it. Everything around this ranked season ( and the ones before that one for that matter ), all what is going on, all the bitterness about what is going on, kinda suggests that your view is not a common one. People go from rolling exclusively FOTM (nothing wrong with that ) to sync queue and win trading just secure wins and secure the rewards.

People like to win and want something to show for it. That's hardly a PvE mentality alone. Probably human nature

 

An alternate path to recruit a couple of companions is certainly a reasonable request. Not only PvEers will like that, some pvpers as well so they wouldn't suffer "pve scrubs queueing and afking in wzs", messing up with their games. But equating another means to get 4X and Pierce to aquiring ops gear through pvp is ludicrous

[foxmob]

he's conflating gear grind with rewards. the gear grind is artificial in pvp. it's integral to pve.

 

however, both formats thrive on rewards. the pve rewards are about downing x bosses in hm/nim. and you normally show off your achievoes with special mounts and titles.

 

pvpers show off their elitism/trophies with mounts and titles also.

 

I think what he was conflating was that pvper doesn't require new content. just new seasons and new rewards. and some class (re)balancing to avoid FotY. whereas pve absolutely requires new content and new gear.