Level Sync needs an Off Button! : ).

[LordArtemis]

What exactly does the game having been on the market for four years have to do with anything? If everything was going fine, SWTOR were a resounding success, and they were happy with the game direction; the ROI, growth potential, etc. do you really think they'd have made the number of basic changes to the game that they have, including level sync, in this expansion ?

 

Well, that is assuming they made this specific change because the game was not doing well using the standard vertical leveling system. I tend to think that is not likely the case, but that is speculative on my part. You could be right, and if you were then certainly the way it has been the last 4 years WAS bad for the game....

 

But I find that highly unlikely. I also find it highly unlikely level sync was implemented due to the fact that vertical progression was "hurting" the game in some way.

 

I've stated my reasons that I believe level-sync should be mandatory or just simply removed in prior posts. I do believe that you, and others, are over simplifying the effort it would take to come up with a system that would satisfy everyone and I don't believe a simple on/off toggle would be simple to implement or do the trick. That type of logic works well in truely single player games but is a bit more problematical, in my most humble opinion, in shared world environments.

 

Fair enough, but I don't think personally I have oversimplified anything. In fact, I believe it is unlikely they could implement a toggle since it is likely, IMO, they would have done so already if they could.

 

I tend to think that it is likely most folks don't care either way. Personally I'm ok if there is a toggle, or if it is mandatory. I liked it before, and I like it now....I liked it better without level sync, but this is not bad. The rewards are FAR better than before. So its a tradeoff that I am happy with.

 

But that is me. I would not stand against a toggle.

[Ghisallo]

Well, that is assuming they made this specific change because the game was not doing well using the standard vertical leveling system. I tend to think that is not likely the case, but that is speculative on my part. You could be right, and if you were then certainly the way it has been the last 4 years WAS bad for the game....

 

But I find that highly unlikely. I also find it highly unlikely level sync was implemented due to the fact that vertical progression was "hurting" the game in some way.

 

The game has been doing poorly financially for the last few years... This is actually a verifiable fact. One need only read the quarterly earnings calls to see it. That out of the way I think you are confabulating some things. The problem need not have been the vertical scaling in order to justify this expansion.

 

Ihave always been a fan of Occam's razor. When we look at the facts of the games lack of profitability over the last 4 years, the fact that the CFO called them out publically twice this year to grow in the quarter of the new movie release, and clear evidence of a restricted budget, what is the conclusion that has the least number of assumptions? This expac is about getting new and returning accounts. These players will see NO issues with the verticle leveling systems. As a matter of fact forbthem it is ENHANCED for this expac because of level sync, bolstering all instanced content to end game levels and either fast tracking or instant 60 getting people to end game faster.

 

Fair enough, but I don't think personally I have oversimplified anything. In fact, I believe it is unlikely they could implement a toggle since it is likely, IMO, they would have done so already if they could.

 

That however is based on the erroneous idea that they would see that as a good thing. It is only a good thing if they were focused on the existing player...they are not, this expac is about adding new and returning players. They remember the Nightmare of launch when there was not enough elder game and so to keep the new player they want the world to seem huge and hope a combination of loyalty, serialized content and subscription rewards will minimize existing player loses.

 

No existing player in a game wants to believe that a game developer would turn their back on them or, at best, focus more on new players than those who have demonstrated loyalty over the long term, I get that. The problem is when you look at the totality of the circumstances that is the only logical explanation for this expac. To try and come to any other conclusion is to try and make facts fit a preexisting premise rather than simply looking at the facts tabula rasa and asking "what do they add up to?"

[GalacticKegger]

Uh...there is nothing in this game keeping you from grouping up.

Chapters 1 through 9 (i.e. KotFE's entire PvE story leveling process save a few open areas between instances.) Unless one's definition of grouping is taking turns watching everyone else in the group play for 5 or 6 hours at a time. That's not even close to Multiplayer and highlights the headliner that touted Bioware's return to cinematic storytelling. Which it is. But it's single player. They're reinventing the MMORPG genre ... Massively MutliObserver Role Playing Game. Edited January 1, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Raansu]

Chapters 1 through 9 (i.e. KotFE's entire PvE story leveling process save a few open areas between instances.) Unless one's definition of grouping is taking turns watching everyone else in the group play for 5 or 6 hours at a time. That's not even close to Multiplayer and highlights the headliner that touted Bioware's return to cinematic storytelling. Which it is. But it's single player. They're reinventing the MMORPG genre ... Massively MutliObserver Role Playing Game.

 

Story missions have functioned like that since day 1.

[LordFell]

I'm mystified that there are still people arguing against Level Sync.

 

Claiming that "we can't know why Bioware instituted it" is pretense and lies. If you're playing the game at all, it becomes obvious. In the most technical sense, yes we can't "know" why Bioware has done this, but that's only because they haven't specifically told us. I really don't care, if you've done any of the new content (specifically KOTFE Chapter 9 sand box stuff) you know why Level Sync was implemented. Whining that it should be removed is pointless; it isn't going to be. Asking them to make it optional is pointless; optional level sync is pointless level sync.

 

I mean... as someone who did a lot of my leveling during the 12x event, I didn't do any of the Heroics. This content is new to me (even though it's old). I'm sure they're looking at player activity and realized that no one (I mean, like, less than 5% of their player population) was doing heroics on a regular basis. Repurposing the old Heroics to become the Alliance grind makes sense on a lot of levels... unused content is now getting used. Quests that bring level 65s back to the planet also need to be synced, to protect newbs from stumbling into those areas. Absolutely these areas could be Instanced (except when they can't) but the more a world is instanced, the less the world is "Massively Multiplayer."

 

Level Sync actually brings a lot to the game. I mean, the Rakghoul Event was level-synced, except in a really clunky way that allowed for players of all levels to be in the tunnels. Unfortunately, this specific implementation also meant that players could not group out of level (and now they can) and when PvP took place, one player was level 32 (for example) and some level 65 with full PvP gear is ganking them. I'm hoping that the Rakghoul Event will be re-released with the new Level Sync. Suddenly, whether someone is level 30 on the planet questing, or on the planet and synced down to level 32 for the event, they can group. The high level PvP Gankers that the Rakghoul Event seems to draw like ants to a picnic will still have a massive advantage over their lowbie victims... but that advantage is not insurmountable.

 

Having said that, there are still some issues with Level Sync. I feel, personally, that a static Level Sync is problematic. Planet Level +2 means that at the lower end (Coruscant, Dromund Kaas, Nar Shaddaa) the player is considerably more powerful than they need to be. (eg. If the planet max level is 10 on Ord Mantel, being level 12 is... given utility points, etc. not just 20% more powerful, but... probably 50% more powerful than anything else on the planet). At the same time, When a player rolls into Voss at level 52, they are only 4% more powerful than they need to be. The problem with this is as easy as running the Heroics. Run your Heroics on Hutta, Korriban, Ord Mantel, Tython, Coruscant and Dromund Kaas... you will clear 5 heroics in about 20 minutes. That same 20 minutes is what it will take you to do one heroic on Corellia, Voss, or Makeb, but the reward is the same.

 

TL/DR

Level Sync is necessary for the new content.

Level Sync is good for the game.

Level Sync is not going away.

...but Level Sync still needs work in terms of implementation.

Edited January 1, 2016 by LordFell

[LordArtemis]

The game has been doing poorly financially for the last few years... This is actually a verifiable fact. One need only read the quarterly earnings calls to see it. That out of the way I think you are confabulating some things. The problem need not have been the vertical scaling in order to justify this expansion.

 

Im not confabulating anything Ghisallo. There is no need to justify "the expansion", nor is there a need to justify level sync, which was the point of contention. My point is a response to the idea that poor performance due to the vertical progression system led to level sync...which is wildly speculative at best.

 

Ihave always been a fan of Occam's razor. When we look at the facts of the games lack of profitability over the last 4 years, the fact that the CFO called them out publically twice this year to grow in the quarter of the new movie release, and clear evidence of a restricted budget, what is the conclusion that has the least number of assumptions? This expac is about getting new and returning accounts. These players will see NO issues with the verticle leveling systems. As a matter of fact forbthem it is ENHANCED for this expac because of level sync, bolstering all instanced content to end game levels and either fast tracking or instant 60 getting people to end game faster.

 

Again, you are speaking in rather broad terms on a very specific issue that some folks seem to take issue with. And you are also speculating, though that does not mean your point lacks merit.

 

However, again, this is VERY FAR off the point that level sync needs to be mandatory. In fact, the issue is becoming so muddled the silliness of it all becomes more and more clear.

 

...You guys seem to be talking in circles at times. That is because the argument against a toggle is foolish.

 

That however is based on the erroneous idea that they would see that as a good thing. It is only a good thing if they were focused on the existing player...they are not, this expac is about adding new and returning players. They remember the Nightmare of launch when there was not enough elder game and so to keep the new player they want the world to seem huge and hope a combination of loyalty, serialized content and subscription rewards will minimize existing player loses.

 

You are speculating again, though again, your opinion does not necessarily lack merit. You seem to be a bit verbose on this point however, far more than is needed IMO.

 

Its sounds to me like you are either trying to talk yourself into a win, or confuse the issue with hyperbole. Either way, the issue itself, where it stands now and where it could be are quite clear.

 

No existing player in a game wants to believe that a game developer would turn their back on them or, at best, focus more on new players than those who have demonstrated loyalty over the long term, I get that. The problem is when you look at the totality of the circumstances that is the only logical explanation for this expac. To try and come to any other conclusion is to try and make facts fit a preexisting premise rather than simply looking at the facts tabula rasa and asking "what do they add up to?"

 

Well, here are the facts.

 

1) Profitablity is speculative.

2) Performance marks are speculative.

3) The reasons for level sync are speculative. The most they have confirmed, to my knowledge so far, is that they were leveling in the game and realized if they were going to streamline the leveling process they could simply implement a level sync. That is most certainly not verbatim, but you get the gist.

 

THESE are actual facts. Everything else, even if it has merit is still supposition. And the problem with basing an argument against something based on supposition is that that opposition will lack merit, regardless of the merits of the argument itself.

 

In other words, saying level sync was not needed is perfectly fine, an opinion just like any other. It holds just as much weight as any other unsubstantiated opinion.

 

The only thing anyone can say for sure is that level sync is in the game. It's a feature. As to it's future, changes, staying the same, reasons thereof...we are ALL guessing at that.

[GalacticKegger]

Story missions have functioned like that since day 1.

Story dialogues lasted between 3 to 5 minutes. (5 minutes if players wanted to escape out and change their choices.) After which the rest of the party traded similar story dialogues. So after 12 to 20 minutes max of sharing (pertinent if not hilarious) class story dialogues among 4 grouped players (double that for travel time between story instances) all party members took each character's story dialogue with them as plot candy. Which fueled the group dynamic where everyone was helping each other out with their story adventures. It had a flow. It had group purpose. It was players helping each other out. That is the essence of multiplayer. That is the beauty of what SWTOR was. Grouped players were part of each other's character's class story action, and the total "down time" (realistically as stated above) was maybe 12 to 20 minutes per episode.

 

Assuming a group of 4 players adventuring through 50 levels of early game class story together (approximately 200 hours without XP boosts) that was maybe 8 to 15 hours total of observing other group member's class story dialogues. Through 50 levels.

 

Fast forward to KotFE where the entire story over 5 levels is 5 to 6 hours in length ... where other grouped players do nothing but observe. Spending 3/4s of an entire expansion's worth of leveling continuously doing nothing but watching another grouped player go through their cinematics ... then watching them engage combat throughout their entire story without any intervention ... 15 to 18 hours of observing everyone else in the party play the game ... through 5 levels.

 

Not even close mate. Not even close. If KotFE is the game's launch, then SWTOR is now a single player game with a coop elder game. It's a SW based PvE Call of Duty with light sabers. We just can't go back and replay a previous version if we don't like the current version.

Edited January 1, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Ghisallo]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, here are the facts.

 

1) Profitablity is speculative.

No it is not. If you wish, private side so as to not create a wall of text thread I can link the earnings call presentations and financial reports that prove SWTOR's lack of net profits. I can also link the quotes from the CFO calling on SWTOR to grow this quarter, not once but twice.

 

I can then link you all of the articles, announcements etc that show that this expac was developed on a restricted budget, based on the content and how they have described what is and what is not expensive content for them to make. I can also show that their budget is now even smaller because they have moved or lost employees without replacing them. I have gone into detail on this point more than once on the forums themselves however... To be blunt to call this speculation beggars logic and this, I believe, is where you make an error that leads to my last comment.

 

2) Performance marks are speculative.

not sure what performance is related to, over game performance, player performance?

 

3) The reasons for level sync are speculative. The most they have confirmed, to my knowledge so far, is that they were leveling in the game and realized if they were going to streamline the leveling process they could simply implement a level sync. That is most certainly not verbatim, but you get the gist.

 

Using this logic deductive reasoning and/or court proceedings based on circumstantial evidence could not exist. I have provided evidence more than once that EA has quite literally told them to GROW this expansion. That means getting new and returning players. I can also show you the evidence where, perhaps paradoxically, EA provided BW with a restricted budget for this expac. It is financial realities that control any companies decisions.

 

Once you accept SWTOR's financial reality the purpose of level sync becomes quite obvious. A two birds one stone scenario. New players racing to 60 or insta 60ing have how many worlds of end game solo content, and existing players have their end game gear/faction grind, with recycled content due to a restricted budget.

 

Now maybe if they achieve what was demanded EA will then increase their budget, they would then be able to make new content and could make level sync optional. However right now without forced level sync there is effectively either A. No solo end game outside the story (if turning it off would make quest rewards go away) or B. A solo endgame that can provide rewards for greyed out content.

 

Does anyone expect BW to come out and say "yeah we made level sync so we could use recycled content as our solo end game because EA restricted our budget because we haven't been meeting preset ROIs" I would hope not. That doesn't mean however that we ourselves can't look at financials, staffing changes and the expac itself and say "yep they were not seen as a boon but a burden financially, they slashed their budget and publically demanded they still grow to boot."

 

I know the last bit does seem to make much sense but it literally there in black and white for anyone to read.

[LordArtemis]

No it is not. If you wish, private side so as to not create a wall of text thread I can link the earnings call presentations and financial reports that prove SWTOR's lack of net profits.

 

Yes, please do so, because until you provide actual proof your argument is baseless IMO.

not sure what performance is related to, over game performance, player performance?

 

I assumed, being privy to investor reports that you would know what performance marks are. They are the points set in development, release, and major expansions where player total, player retention, total revenue, growth rate and expected market impact performance goals are set.

 

Using this logic deductive reasoning and/or court proceedings based on circumstantial evidence could not exist.

 

You are not providing circumstantial evidence in a courtroom. You are providing opinions on a chat board.

 

I have provided evidence more than once that EA has quite literally told them to GROW this expansion.

 

Irrelevant.

 

That means getting new and returning players.

 

That means what you want it to mean. it is more likely they wanted more REVENUE. Subscription growth and retention would obviously be secondary to that point.

 

I can also show you the evidence where, perhaps paradoxically, EA provided BW with a restricted budget for this expac.

 

Again, irrelevant.

 

It is financial realities that control any companies decisions.

 

Of course it is, And water is wet. But that has NO BEARING on whether or not level sync should or could be optional IMO.

 

Once you accept SWTOR's financial reality the purpose of level sync becomes quite obvious.

 

No, actually, it doesn't at all. You have come to a conclusion, and I argue that conclusion is speculative AT BEST. Once could also conclude, based on the actual facts, that they decided to recycle old content to simply make it relevant again, or have it as an alliance mechanic, or simply provide their vision of a simple leveling process. The latter, IMO, is the most likely reason it was implemented.

 

All are valid assumptions based on the evidence IMO.

A two birds one stone scenario. New players racing to 60 or insta 60ing have how many worlds of end game solo content, and existing players have their end game gear/faction grind, with recycled content due to a restricted budget.

 

Speculative and lacks merit IMO.

 

Again, I must tell you that beating folks over the head with nothing more than convoluted conclusions and heresay evidence amounts to a baseless argument. This is not the first time you have done this Ghisallo.

 

You present your conclusions as intuitive and authoratative, and then use those opinions to dissuade others from any point you find in disagreement.

 

You do not wish to discuss the matter...you wish to establish the facts of the matter, when you simply present your opinions based on the information known.

 

I, on the other hand, am dealing in nothing but facts when I present such, and CLEARLY present supposition when I am doing so. I do not attempt to pass off my opinions as facts, or present them as more or less intuitive or authoritative than others.

 

I present them and let them stand on their own merits. You engage instead in a battle of whits using empty logic and fallacies on occasion.

 

Save actual presented proof, this is one of those occasions IMO.

 

Present me links to ACTUAL profit calls and performance marks and I will be glad to digress and offer my apologies on that point.

 

My point, however, still stands....there would be nothing wrong with a level sync toggle IF rewards could and would be adjusted.

 

And THAT is my opinion.

Edited January 1, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Ghisallo]

Yes, please do so, because until you provide actual proof your argument is baseless.

/snip

 

 

 

Actually I have posted them time and time again in threads BUT in the interest of transparency I will post it here. First as a publically traded company ANY ONE can go here and look at the data... I am not uniquely privy... http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm

 

A good analysis of all of it is here...

 

http://swtoreconomics.com/2015/12/10/an-analysis-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-from-eas-financial-reports/

 

The main point...which I have also been making is this from the above link...

 

Looking Back: Most Recent Quarterly Reports

 

Hopefully you’re still with me, I promise we’re almost finished. There is some silver lining in the two quarterly reports since that fiscal year 2015 annual report. The rate of decline in revenue has stopped accelerating it seems because SWTOR is no longer being cited for declining revenue year-over-year in the middle six months of calendar year 2015. However, the game was also not listed as having increasing year-over-year revenue in either quarter. This means that Star Wars: The Old Republic is only experiencing the same revenue decline as last year, not continuing to accelerate the rate of decline as it had over of the prior 24 months.

 

We are only talking about revenue right now though. None of this means that SWTOR is losing money necessarily. There’s less money coming in the door, but if you also cut expenditures you can remain profitable with less revenue. The primary takeaway for me is that the next quarterly report, which should be available in February, is going to be very interesting to read. If the game is not cited for significant revenue improvement I will become very concerned. BioWare has made their move with this expansion and if revenues cannot increase relative to the same time period last year it will be an indictment of their decision to release an expansion like Knights of the Fallen Empire instead of one more similar to Shadow of Revan unless the production cost of the former was significantly lower than the latter.

 

So yeah...fact... Read the reportsin FY 2014-15. You will see them mention this game as a loss at worst, not at all and at best as a product they sell but never as being subject to a bonafide revenue increase. As the above quote notes you can still get some ROI out of the game... If you do what they clearly did here, slash budgets.

 

PS in terms of the harping about growth... Q3 2015 and the October 2016 presentations.

[LordArtemis]

Actually I have posted them time and time again in threads BUT in the interest of transparency I will post it here. First as a publically traded company ANY ONE can go here and look at the data... I am not uniquely privy... http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm

 

A good analysis of all of it is here...

 

http://swtoreconomics.com/2015/12/10/an-analysis-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-from-eas-financial-reports/

 

The main point...which I have also been making is this from the above link...

 

 

 

So yeah...fact... Read the reportsin FY 2014-15. You will see them mention this game as a loss at worst, not at all and at best as a product they sell but never as being subject to a bonafide revenue increase. As the above quote notes you can still get some ROI out of the game... If you do what they clearly did here, slash budgets.

 

PS in terms of the harping about growth... Q3 2015 and the October 2016 presentations.

 

Ah, I see what you are doing here. So let me simplify it for you.

 

The game has been doing poorly financially for the last few years... This is actually a verifiable fact. One need only read the quarterly earnings calls to see it.

 

When we look at the facts of the games lack of profitability over the last 4 years

 

Provide proof that these statements are actually verifiable fact and not supposition based on evidence. If you can do so, I will present you an apology and digress.

 

As far as I know, neither statement is factual based on the evidence provided. EA provides bulk revenue information since folks do not invest in individual divisions or products. However, they can speak in general terms as to the profitability of certain divisions and how that impacts total profits, but to my knowledge EA is well known NOT TO DO SO. Opinions naturally do not count as evidence Ghisallo.

Could one speculate that the game is losing money or lacks profitablity? Sure. But that is NOT FACT. that is OPINION. It is FACT to say it has been slipping in REVENUE. Revenue is NOT PROFIT.

 

I would think you of all people would know the difference.

 

PS in terms of the harping about growth... Q3 2015 and the October 2016 presentations.

 

They just posted 3rd quarter earnings and marks from 2015. October 2016 will not be presented for quite some time, unless you are speaking of projections.

 

Now, if we want to speak to revenue only (which is NOT an indicator of profit margin)...

 

First, extra content and free-to-play contributed $177 million, up 35% over the prior year, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, as well as Star Wars: The Old Republic, and FIFA Online 3. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content. - ELECTRONIC ARTS Q1 FY14 PREPARED COMMENTS July 23, 2013, Q1 non - GAAP digital net revenue

 

Turning to our Q2 results, EA’s non-GAAP net revenue was $1.04 billion, which was above our guidance and 4% lower than last year. The quarter’s revenue was driven by our sports titles and continued strength in our catalog offerings, like FIFA 13, SimCity, Star Wars: The Old Republic and Battlefield 3. In line with our guidance, all of our sports titles except for FIFA 14, sold in less than the prior year. Lastly, positive foreign currency gains of $9 million also added

to the revenue upside

 

Q2 non-GAAP digital net revenue also contributed to the solid quarterly performance. Digital net revenue increased by 11% year-over-year to $348 million. Our digital business continues to be a diversified mix of high growth, profitable segments. The trailing twelve-month digital net revenue was up 22% over the prior year to a re

cord $1.75 billion. Breaking down our digital revenue into its key components highlights the performance of each business:

First, extra content and free-to-play contributed $127 million, up 11% over the prior year, led by continued growth in

FIFA Ultimate Team, FIFA Online 3, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. This revenue relates to businesses on PCs or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content. One exciting trend to note, our year-to-date results for each of our sport’s Ultimate Team businesses – Hockey Ultimate Team, NCAA Football Ultimate Team, Madden Ultimate Team and of course FIFA Ultimate Team – demonstrated revenue growth year-over-year. However, our decision to sunset several of our social businesses offset some of this growth, as we saw revenue declines from The Sims Social and SimCity Social.

 

That is just the first two quarters of FY 2014.

 

FY 2015 1st quarter

Extra content and free-to-play contributed $211 million, up 19% over the prior year, led by sustained momentum and approaching 90% growth in our Ultimate Team business. We saw NHL Ultimate Team grow 50%, FIFA Ultimate Team

grow nearly 80% and Madden Ultimate Team grow over 350% year-over-year. Star Wars: The Old Republic and

FIFA Online 3 also continue to be significant contributors.

 

FY 2015 2nd quarter

Extra content and free-to-play contributed $153 million, up 20% over the prior year, led by sustained momentum in our FIFA, Madden and Hockey Ultimate Team services, which were up 96% year on year. Over the same period we have

grown FIFA Ultimate Team 61%, Madden Ultimate Team 277% and Hockey Ultimate Team 113%. In addition, we saw great success in Asia with the continued growth of FIFA Online 3, up 89% year on year. Star Wars: The Old Republic also contributed to the free-to-play segment. As a reminder, FIFA Online is still in beta in China with our partner Tencent, thus we are not yet recognizing revenue.

 

FY 2015 3rd quarter

Extra content and freemium contributed $314 million, up 47% over the prior year, with Ultimate Team continuing its strong performance across our FIFA, Madden NFL and NHL franchises, up 82% year over year in total. FIFA Online 3 in Korea continues to grow year over year, and the early indications from our partner in China, Tencent, are that it is already 5 performing extremely well. Star Wars: The Old Republic also contributed to the segment, with the expansion, Shadow of Revan, attracting many more people into the game with its epic new storyline. Star Wars fans remain deeply engaged with The Old Republic universe, and we’re excited to see how that will build as we get closer to the launch of the new Star Wars movie this December.

 

No specific mention of SWTOR revenue wise for FY 2015 4th quarter or FY 2016 1st quarter.

 

FY 2016 2nd quarter

Subscriptions, advertising, and other digital revenue contributed $83 million, down 9% from last year, due to the natural decline in Battlefield 4 Premium revenues. EA Access is delivering strong, sustained growth. Finally with regards to subscriptions, we launched a major expansion for Star Wars: The Old Republic on Tuesday. Subscribers are up 33% since the expansion was announced, to their highest level since February 2014. We’re optimistic about its continued performance, in terms of both subscribers and free-to-play, in the run up to the first new Star Wars movie in a decade.

 

Now, here is the problem. The actual FACTS simply do not line up with your opinions.

Edited January 1, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Ghisallo]

Ah, I see what you are doing here. So let me simplify it for you.

 

 

 

Provide proof that these statements are actually verifiable fact and not supposition based on evidence.

 

I will respond when you actually bother to take the time to read the financials... Clearly you didn't because of the speed of your response. A supposition is an uncertain belief. The financials and the presentations that accompany them are FAR from uncertain. So until then, I am hitting the pause button.

[LordArtemis]

I will respond when you actually bother to take the time to read the financials... Clearly you didn't because of the speed of your response. A supposition is an uncertain belief. The financials and the presentations that accompany them are FAR from uncertain. So until then, I am hitting the pause button.

 

I have already read and posted snippets constantly over the last 4 years. I am, in fact, updating my post with actual specific comments (I had to return to the actual reports to get them verbatum).

 

And so I hit pause until YOU provide actual statements that demonstrate your opinions as facts.

[Ghisallo]

I have already read and posted snippets constantly over the last 4 years. I am, in fact, updating my post with actual specific comments (I had to return to the actual reports to get them verbatum).

 

And so I hit pause until YOU provide actual statements that demonstrate your opinions as facts.

 

Well I linked them... If you want to deny or avoid them you call. Assuming out of context one and two sentence quotes in coming.

 

Have a good new year. PS when they say "contributed to the segment" it means the game existed... That it, nothing more.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Ghisallo

[Sarfux]

Level sync is the best thing that has ever happened to this game. Period. And you guys nitpicking posts in here and doing that thing where you quote every single sentence and then over analyze it is ESPECIALLY annoying and not needed just to let you know. A little over the top. We aren't analyzing the world budget here or some controversial comments about history or writing an essay and grammar check it. It's a game. To escape and have fun. I think some of you forget that. Edited January 1, 2016 by Sarfux

[LordArtemis]

Well I linked them... If you want to deny or avoid them you call. Assuming out of context one and two sentence quotes in coming.

 

Have a good new year. I am done with ostriches here.

 

LOL.

 

Out of context, though they are posted verbatum. As opposed to speculation based on fuzzy logic and other peoples opinions, without seeming to bother to read the ACTUAL PROOF YOU LINKED to prove your contentions.

 

Yea, ok. I think ill keep posting facts and you can keep posting opinions.

 

The actual facts I posted do not prove your two statements....lack of profitability and loss of revenue as facts. They, in fact, prove both as being supposition at best.

 

I think I will let the actual facts stand in evidence. Next time simply present your comments for what they are...opinions. Then you will not have to have your comments questioned in this manner.

 

Because, and I want to make this clear....your OPINIONS that the game has lacked profitability for 4 years or has lost revenue certainly have merit based on the evidence....one can come to that conclusion. One can even claim EA is not being as forthcoming as they should be about the games performance.

 

However, as a basis for an argument against a toggle for level sync? It is a reach at best, certainly not a reputable base to frame the argument IMO.

Edited January 1, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Princess_Chibi]

Speculative and lacks merit IMO.

 

Again, I must tell you that beating folks over the head with nothing more than convoluted conclusions and heresay evidence amounts to a baseless argument. This is not the first time you have done this Ghisallo.

 

You present your conclusions as intuitive and authoratative, and then use those opinions to dissuade others from any point you find in disagreement.

 

You do not wish to discuss the matter...you wish to establish the facts of the matter, when you simply present your opinions based on the information known.

 

QFT.

 

Ghisallo, you've now been called out on it several times.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Princess_Chibi

[Quraswren]

Because you're going to turn it on anyways for the rewards because I guarantee if they made it optional and you turn sync off that they will reward you nothing....There is no reason to make it optional.

 

If I'm going to turn it off anyway that should tell you about how worthless down leveling actually is as well as how it was used. I'd rather run the planets the old over leveled way than this a down leveled way and get the old rewards. If I want the new rewards, have a toggle and let gamers turn it on. If you want the old rewards and time saved, have a toggle and turn it off.

There is no reason at all down leveling needed to be permanent 24/7 except for making 4 year old launch content take longer to complete and thats not good for gamers. I'm sure the business is glad they did less, implemented a worthless grind of old content but it's not good gaming.

I got bad news for you. MMO's change over the years. If you can't accept that then you and the 3 other people that can't seem to accept it need to move on to something else. MMO's probably are not for you.

I got bad news for you too. Changes like this after 4+ years tends to lead to negativity for the game. Especially so when the said change is as worthless as down leveling turned out to be and what it actually accomplished - AKA just taking a bit longer to complete 2012 content. I accept MMO change but I also accept companies like BW make terrible changes. I'm sure you can list a few yourself in SWTOR, I sure know I can. Down leveling is just one terrible change.

Did you ever consider the fact that the developers might now want you doing that? This is an MMO after all, not a single player game. There's a reason GW2 level caps their zones. There's a reason FFXIV fates have level syncs. There's a reason why developers are doing this stuff. If you don't like that, go play something else.

I would have with BW way back but not now. Their continued screwing up and general lack of skill and ability in content release, bugs, bug fixing, companion screw ups, generic companions and down leveling naming just a few reason BW thinks they know what they are doing but are fumbling around instead. (and all that before I get on a rant about how we leveled up to get back things BW took away). There is a reason I dislike GW2 and FF14. Down leveling is one of them. I don't like it and you can bet I'll be going once the free money from this game stops rolling in and its been declining evening month. So lets all praise those that are leaving, should help this game a whole lot.

 

Its not even remotely screwing up swtor. News flash, most are not bothered by it and the forums make up less than 1% of the games population. The same 10 people complaining about nonessential garbage doesn't make you the majority. If it was as bad as you like to pretend it is BW would have said something already, but its not. Most clearly are not bothered by it, and I'd probably easily say most like it because they can now solo a lot of the heroics they had to skip when leveling.

You're delusional. It's a huge screw up for SWTOR. New flash, many dislike it as long as were talking made up numbers. The whole concept of down leveling and how it was implemented. No new end game content and down leveling put in to hide just how little BW actually did. A massive new grind that goes now where and offers nothing of real interest for your time. Down leveled just so the grind takes a bit longer. It doesn't add any real challenge (not that gamers needed challenge in 4 year old content but it didn't add challenge anyway) Just something to make sure it adds time to what you do on any planet. BW wont say anything about how bad it is. Just like damn near every other company that puts out a mediocre or crappy product. I can easily say its more of a 50/50 of like vs dislike on down leveling but as long as we're going to throw anecdotal evidence into the debate, I know more that enjoyed over leveling heroics they missed, than doing them down leveled.

Down leveling at this point in SWTOR is a POS design that offers the gamers very little and hides the laziness of BW.

 

Why? What purpose would it serve? BW is not going to let you breeze through it with level sync off and give you the same rewards, so in that effect you're going to turn it on anyways. I mean in reality it already is optional. You don't have to go do those heroics and like you said, its 4 year old content so its not like you're going back to those planets on a max level anyways. So ya, making it optional would be incredibly pointless and a waste of dev time.

No one was asking for the same rewards. Give the old rewards if it's turned off. I ran them more when I was over leveled than I did down leveled. BW can adjust the rewards same as they adjust them now. I'd turn it on when I wanted the newer reward which is little to none. What I did like was going to those planets and doing heroics for different appearance tab stuff. Something I no longer do down leveled. I detest it to much. Making it optional with different rewards would have made people that want to be down leveled happy and made those that dislike it happy. Best of both worlds from the moment of design is how this should have been implemented. Forced down leveling just because you stepped off your ship is garbage.

 

I'm going to say it again. MMO's evolve and change over time. You can't stay stuck in the "old ways." If you don't like it do something else.

And I'm going to tell you again. With something like down leveling that does nothing but make sure you have extra time doing 4 year old launch content is not a change any game needs. Much less SWTOR as it continues to struggle to keep subs. A change that does so little but helps hide just how lazy BW was with this expansion and just how little content we actually got is a change no gamers needs.They made a change to waste your time. Just another good for business bad for the gamer change.

 

I hated that BW removed shoot first from scrappers and completely butchered a play style I enjoyed, but it is what it is. They have their vision for THEIR game. I said my piece on the feedback threads and proceeded to delete my scrapper and rolled something else that I found more enjoyable. Actually I quit the game for about 6 months then came back and rolled something else. So ya, like I said, don't like it? Play something else. The devs are going to do what they want with their game. Its their vision not yours.

I do play other things and the devs will do what they want but I'll make sure it painful for them when the put something as monumentally stupid as down leveling in SWTOR. When the free money finally stops rolling in and the last of my friends are done. I'll cut it off completely.

You are really stuck on that arbitrary number arnt you? Even with level sync, your gear still contributes, you still get all your passives as you level up and you still earn new abilities as you level up. Stop being so stuck on an arbitrary number next to your characters name.

Stop being so obtuse. Nothing about down leveling makes any sense no matter how you spin it. Everything you do gets reduced even with secondary stats being better and skills you get to keep. Your gear and stats to contribute but to a much lesser degree. I doubt many go through the trouble to get gear, level up and then be down leveled so 4 year old content can take longer to do. It's still easy, just takes longer. Stop acting like you don't know the difference.

You completely missed the point.....then again you have been missing the point the entire time, so whatever.

One of us missed the point and it wasn't me. You liked your options but seem to dislike others wanting them. Very selfish of you indeed.

 

You realize level sync is more than just the heroic stuff right? It was to help with the leveling process as well. New players leveling are going to easily out level most of the content now. Level sync prevents quests from being grayed out and it keeps old players from just burning through the content getting easy rewards

Thats called a mentoring system and is optional in the other gamers that have a similar feature. If you want to use it with friends go ahead. Others who could give a crap about it don't need to be affected by it. Few if anyone are staying on the same planet for any long length of time. Their following the story and moving along. If you wanted to go back and help something, toggle that crap on and get credit. Otherwise, toggle it off and move along the story like you were going to anyway. Did you not put any thought into it at all.

Again....I don't think you know what tedious actually is, because swtor is not that.

Really, well tedious is SWTOR in a nut shell at max level if you can bring yourself to even touch the worthless grind. Down leveling made sure of that. Tedious - too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous. That screams SWTOR and doing heroics with down leveling.

How the....I don't even.......wow........Ignoring aggro on a speeder from enemies that you outrun within seconds and never slows you down is a time sink.....................................................Dude, go play something else, MMO's are not for you.

Sorry but POS worthless trash is just that. If it's got nothing to do with why you are there, you're not going to waste your time on it. No one goes in to heroics pulling everything when you are at max level. It's how fast can you do it. Get some sense cause you know that to be true. You skip what you can and get done what needs to be done. Down leveling just makes sure you have a chance to pull more than you need wasting time.

 

Its done plenty of good, but whatever. And I can think of far worse things BW has done to this game then level sync and the game is still here doing perfectly fine. I doubt you and the 3 other people complaining on a forum that makes up less than 1% of the games population is going to come back and bite BW.

Down leveling has done this game no good except for the business end of making sure it takes gamers longer to complete an already worthless grind if you do it at all. A go no where task for missions you cannot drop. Down leveling is a time waster and nothing more. A poor substitute for better mechanics like an optional mentoring system. It's just one of BW's "far worse" things in a rather long list of "worse" things. I doubt the less than 1% that support down leveling makes much a difference either but what I do know is down leveling was poorly implemented, does little for the game in a good way but makes sure if you do the mission at all it will take you longer to do. There isn't any reason to support that kind of garbage added to this game.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Quraswren

[Exscarion]

Because you're going to turn it on anyways for the rewards because I guarantee if they made it optional and you turn sync off that they will reward you nothing....There is no reason to make it optional.

 

well if they would never have implemented the level sync, we wouldn't have to speculate about this in any matter!

 

Did you ever consider the fact that the developers might now want you doing that? This is an MMO after all, not a single player game..

 

so why oh why are they still make it, that more and more old group content is now single player content?

 

There's a reason GW2 level caps their zones. There's a reason FFXIV fates have level syncs. There's a reason why developers are doing this stuff. If you don't like that, go play something else.

 

i don't know how it works for gw2, but as you stated earlier, on ff14 they just added real endgame contend to they're purposed ls, what swtor didn't do at all!

 

News flash, most are not bothered by it.

 

well when i would state on the fleed: " hey level sync is cool" two players would agree, the next about 3 would ask if iam serious and the next 5 would ask what drugs i took and if they can have some of those!

 

Why? What purpose would it serve? BW is not going to let you breeze through it with level sync off and give you the same rewards, so in that effect you're going to turn it on anyways.

 

rarely loughed that good! i am still breezing through it, it just takes unnessecarly more time to do with this unwanted ls crab!

 

I'm going to say it again. MMO's evolve and change over time. You can't stay stuck in the "old ways." If you don't like it do something else.

 

yes mmo are going to evolve, but evolve is not always for the better and given that bw didn't give any hint where they wanna go with it, so atm, there is no possitive evolution to see and some wanna stop such things in theyre get goes!

 

You completely missed the point.....then again you have been missing the point the entire time, so whatever.

 

there is a saying in germany: " who sits in a house of glass shouldn't throw stones, ...."

 

You realize level sync is more than just the heroic stuff right? It was to help with the leveling process as well. New players leveling are going to easily out level most of the content now. Level sync prevents quests from being grayed out and it keeps old players from just burning through the content getting easy rewards.

 

if they wanna prevent quest from outgraying, they shouldn't blow exp out the windows with everything they got in theyre disposal.

 

Its done plenty of good, but whatever.

 

seriously, tell me what good did it do? i don't see it so far.

flipside i don't see that many negatives atm. only that it doesn't make anything more relevant, than it was before and adding pointless and unneededly more time to the grinds, but that's enough for me to ask to remove it!

if they add something, where it makes any sense i might even support it, but until then, pls, remove it!

 

 

well, as you see i managed to do these multiquote thing, but is there a easy way to do it?

 

and it also wouldn't surprise me, if bw would state the following someday: "This Level sync was a bug that occured during programming kotfe and we didn't know how to turn it off, so we decided to confront the players with it, as a wanted feature to test the reactions. now that the reactions we got where morely .... about it, we decided to ...."

and yes i am confident^^

[Halinalle]

And I'm going to tell you again. With something like down leveling that does nothing but make sure you have extra time doing 4 year old launch content is not a change any game needs. Much less SWTOR as it continues to struggle to keep subs. A change that does so little but helps hide just how lazy BW was with this expansion and just how little content we actually got is a change no gamers needs.They made a change to waste your time. Just another good for business bad for the gamer change.

 

Isn't it actually the key point in leveling in GW2?

 

rarely loughed that good! i am still breezing through it, it just takes unnessecarly more time to do with this unwanted ls crab!

 

If it takes you too long to do heroics then you're doing something wrong.

I really hate to waste 6-piece bonus on my Sentinels/Marauders to kill one strong enemy. Yes, that's all it takes: Twin Saber Throw -> Dispatch. In fact, strongs die to one Ravage/Blade Dance.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Halinalle

[dousidlo]

I did not read all of the previous posts but I am more or less decided what I think about Level Sync.

It is not a bad idea for people that want to play with their friend that are lower level and it makes older quests actually replayable.

BUT thats not what the most pressing issue I am actually irritated about is. It is the fact that a level 10 mobs on korriban can take down a Sith Lord of level 65.

Level Sync makes your gear from high end Flashpoints or bought by crystals nearly useless. You can just buy the gear from the vendors on korriban and will achieve nearly the same stats as the ones that you were downgraded to.

It makes no sense to force players that hit their level cap of be it 50, 55 or 65 to downgrade their evel just so it makes the quests give them xp that is relevant for their level because there is just something cruel about doing this now really hard and long quest for the game to give you xp so relevantly irrelevant because its literally impossible to have a level higher then 65.

(I am sorry for vomiting my opinions on this threat but i am highly irritated)

Edited January 1, 2016 by dousidlo

[Halinalle]

BUT thats not what the most pressing issue I am actually irritated about is. It is the fact that a level 10 mobs on korriban can take down a Sith Lord of level 65.

 

How is that even possible? I want to see video.

 

Level Sync makes your gear from high end Flashpoints or bought by crystals nearly useless. You can just buy the gear from the vendors on korriban and will achieve nearly the same stats as the ones that you were downgraded to.

 

No, you can't. You can't get things like 110 % accuracy, 35+ % crit change, 8+ % alacrity.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Halinalle

[GalacticKegger]

Changes like this after 4+ years tends to lead to negativity for the game.

The only problem with those people who have been here for years and endeared themselves to min-maxing both their characters and their companions throughout the entire game without creampuff level sync & flawed tactical assistance ... is that they have been here for years and endeared themselves to min-maxing both their characters and their companions throughout the entire game without creampuff level sync & flawed tactical assistance.

 

I promise you the moment Bioware comes out and tells those people they're dinosaurs is the moment this game's bottom line becomes a tarn goad in EA/Disney brass' posterior. Which is why Bioware won't ever come out and tell those people they're dinosaurs. Hell, they aren't telling anybody anything. So those people come here looking for answers and are reported for hitting a nerve, or are told to shut up and deal with it, or are told their perspective is insignificant and out of line ... and to just go away and find something else to do.

 

For some 4.0's changes had a positive effect on their game play. For others 4.0's changes had a negative effect on their game play. Both are realities that are equally valid and deserve equal respect & consideration. The real pity is that there are residents here who make a concerted effort to ensure that equality doesn't happen. Shame on them.

Edited January 1, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[LordFell]

@Ghisalo

If you read my previous post in favor of level sync, you know we're not opposed... but I have to say that for the most part, arguing the real world economic realities of SWTOR as a company has no merit to this discussion. It may have let them do more with a smaller budget, granted, but we really can't know if Level Sync will generate more player-side revenue from the company.

 

I mean, there are dozens of reasons why Level Sync is good for the game, purely based on the in-game realities of how we play the game... there is honestly no reason to bring real world financial decisions here.

[loctys]

I agree with this that there should be an option for all players to turn off Level Sync if they so choose to use it and I'd go so far as to say that the game has been fine to me for the past 4 years that I have been playing on and off again and that their was nothing wrong what so ever in my opinion how every thing was and that 4.0 with level sync ruined it for me and another problem is that I am of the opinion that now get to much exp and that I prefered and still prefer the leveling system from before 4.0 where had to do all the side quests etc to level as well