Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Teladis]

The big difference, as they keep smugly reminding us, is that they're getting what they want, and we should either suck it up and "adapt" as the game is fundamentally changed, or STHU and GTHU.

 

And yet somehow, that attitude is "open minded" and our attitude is "selfish". Doubleplusungood, indeed.

 

You know this guy might not mean it, but he is speaking the truth.

 

People come into a MMO knowing it will always change. I came back to this MMO because all the changes in 4.0 I wanted. To revert some of the key changes people want to do, or to add optional when clearly I do not want that. Would just make me leave again. So here I am coming back to a game, and ask players to give it a chance, wait and see things. Yet, they already made threats to quit or not sub blah blah.

 

So both sides are being selfish. I know I am because I want this game this way. I came back to the game for this. You want to change it. That means that I don't agree with you, and think you are just as selfish. Lucky for me that the game will start out how I want it, and will move on from that. If they ever change it to where I can't have fun. I will quit again.

 

It is that simple. If you don't have fun with the game because of the changes. Quit like I did, come back when ready.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Teladis

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't even particularly follow these threads, but, over the last week, from what I have seen of your comments, I think you need to take a moment of self-reflection.

 

Really?

 

Because I want options, so that as many players as possible can enjoy the game as much as possible; so that those who would benefit from some aspects of levelsync can use it, while those whose enjoyment can only suffer from levelsync can still enjoy the game they've been enjoying for years, and as many as possible can get what they want out of the game...

 

... I'm being "selfish"?

 

And the people saying "I want the game to change, and anyone who wants otherwise can take a leap" aren't?

 

What the hell?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[AntiochosTheos]

Ah, well, there is a bit of common ground. One of the faults I think Bioware has is they do not do PR well. (Yes, you could go so far as to say 'at all.')

 

By the way, I had hoped to edit my comment a bit to clarify that I don't mean 'rational' to imply you (or anyone is 'irrational'). Rather, I mean rational in a legal sense of 'objective.'

 

I think that 99% of the people in this topic have long since lost sight of any objectivity.

 

I was quicker than your edit, but I never assumed to be called irrational. So everything is fine.

But in the mean time I have come to realise that I am not so much upset about the insistence of the pro team, but more about Bioware's silence as to why this has been introduced in the first place. I highly doubt this was number one on any potential wish list.

[EllieAnne]

 

With the new systems coming out . It seems that going back to other worlds to build alliance and such is going to play key part. (we don't know enough.) so if you are doing side missions or just farming on that planet..and here comes a 65 pulling everything one shotting and waiting for respawns. How is that fun? how is that giving level sync a choice? The person would pick not to do it so he could compete for spawns/other perks of being a high level. If both players played by the same rules. It would not be as big of a problem. In fact it could also give them a reason to group up.

 

So let's say that's true. Apparently with level-sync I will still be overpowered enough to farm mobs away from leveling players but now it is an actual grind for me. Now let's say I need to group up to take on Champions, Elites and the WB. I just don't think that that is doable in the long run. I just now finished the Pub Shroud mission after over a month of trying to get 4 people together. Have you tried to run Aurora Cannon for the weekly?

 

Maybe I'm wrong and this will be the greatest hing ever to have happened to an MMO, but let's look at the history of this game:

FPs - nearly impossible to get a group together

GSF - nearly impossible to get a group together

Heroic 4s requiring 4 people (AC, Shroud, Dread Seed) - nearly impossible to get a group together

World Bosses - Almost never done by PUGs. Usually famed by guilds for Conquest

PvP - "Wait? We still have PvP?" No major developments there.

Ops - A couple of new Ops with Revan. The endgame mess is it's own thread.

[EllieAnne]

Ah, the difference is I don't claim to know for sure. The only claim I make is that, regardless of all the issues this game and these developers have, I remain confident that they know more of what they are doing than a few forum posters.

 

You may be absolutely right and I'm absolutely wrong, but I think it's telling that so many of us assume BW has no clue what it's going to do after next week.

[Teladis]

So let's say that's true. Apparently with level-sync I will still be overpowered enough to farm mobs away from leveling players but now it is an actual grind for me. Now let's say I need to group up to take on Champions, Elites and the WB. I just don't think that that is doable in the long run. I just now finished the Pub Shroud mission after over a month of trying to get 4 people together. Have you tried to run Aurora Cannon for the weekly?

 

Maybe I'm wrong and this will be the greatest hing ever to have happened to an MMO, but let's look at the history of this game:

FPs - nearly impossible to get a group together

GSF - nearly impossible to get a group together

Heroic 4s requiring 4 people (AC, Shroud, Dread Seed) - nearly impossible to get a group together

World Bosses - Almost never done by PUGs. Usually famed by guilds for Conquest

PvP - "Wait? We still have PvP?" No major developments there.

Ops - A couple of new Ops with Revan. The endgame mess is it's own thread.

 

We don't know enough. The problem is you are basing things off pre 4.0. The game is changing over all. So we don't know if groups will be form with this new system. If bioware is giving us a reason to do it. They things I have been saying are examples nothing more.

 

We just don't know enough, that is why wait and see is the best option. Once that happens, we can talk in detail about the system and why it is good or bad.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Teladis

[thewitchdoctor]

Because I want options, so that as many players as possible can enjoy the game as much as possible ...

 

Last bit. I think you are literally asking for it to not rain. I think you are wishing on pixie dust if you think Bioware has the money or inclination to allow for your 'option.' Furthermore, I suspect it is quite plainly contrary to where they are taking this game.

 

... I'm being "selfish"?

 

I didn't say selfish. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said I think you have lost all sense of objectivity.

[Max_Killjoy]

Last bit. I think you are literally asking for it to not rain. I think you are wishing on pixie dust if you think Bioware has the money or inclination to allow for your 'option.' Furthermore, I suspect it is quite plainly contrary to where they are taking this game.

 

 

 

I didn't say selfish. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said I think you have lost all sense of objectivity.

 

Given the context of the post you were replying to, it was a fair conclusion that that was what you meant.

 

As for the rest, paying customers have every right to give feedback and critique, and make it plain why they're unhappy and unlikely to continue buying a product.

[thewitchdoctor]

I was quicker than your edit, but I never assumed to be called irrational. So everything is fine.

 

Good!

 

But in the mean time I have come to realise that I am not so much upset about the insistence of the pro team, but more about Bioware's silence as to why this has been introduced in the first place. I highly doubt this was number one on any potential wish list.

 

And I think that's a great point. Bioware's inability to discuss their own game, I agree, is hugely responsible for this.

 

I am coming to my conclusion on two strands of thought.

 

1. Bioware is, in fact, competent. (Someone may not like what they do, sure. That's not in doubt).

 

2. They have made allusion to 'new tech.'

 

2a. They said that it was 'new tech' that they implemented in putting all ops and FPs to 65. They insinuated that this would continue to be the case. So when we level to 70, so does the game.

 

2b. Levelsync does the same, in reverse, to the open world.

 

2c. They said this 'new tech' would allow them to do some 'cool things' come what may after KOTFE.

 

(2d. It does have a certain 'beauty' to it. Everywhere my hero or villan goes, the world is relevant.)

 

So, to me, it seems plausible that levelsync is part and parcel to what KOTFE has turned SWTOR into. I reserve judgment to whether I like it or not come 21 Oct.

[thewitchdoctor]

Given the context of the post you were replying to, it was a fair conclusion that that was what you meant.

 

I will grant you that since your comment did also say 'selfish.' My apologies for the confusion. I was responding to 'open minded.'

[Bakakiba]

The big difference, as they keep smugly reminding us, is that they're getting what they want, and we should either suck it up and "adapt" as the game is fundamentally changed, or STHU and GTHU.

 

And yet somehow, that attitude is "open minded" and our attitude is "selfish". Doubleplusungood, indeed.

 

I don't even particularly follow these threads, but, over the last week, from what I have seen of your comments, I think you need to take a moment of self-reflection.

 

[Reno_Tarshil]

 

Don't want reward. Want to stomp all who dare oppose me with one swipe of my lightsaber. Why should I not be allowed to do that?

 

So don't answer about Champions, Elites or Bonus Series?

 

Did you not read what I said? I spammed for an hour and no one replied. That's not even going into all of the time I spam for an hour and I get one - exactly ONE planet level toon wanting to take on WB. I don't know why you think these changes will incentivize anyone to take on a WB. IF they were telling us "Hey new feature. You will have a quest to kill the WB to complete the planetary questline." Then you are absolutely right but except for conquest I have not seen any interest in WB hunting in a long long time. Do this and I'll do the same. Take an at level toon on to the planet where the WB has spawned. Start spamming and tell me how long before you get your PUG together. What do you think? 4m group or 8m ops?

 

And my response to the first 3

 

1.) Why? Because it doesn't fit in the direction BW is wanting to go with Level Sync. Fortunately for you, you will still be more powerful at max level scaled down then a player the same level as your downscaled but without all the stuff you get from being max level. So you will still be able to stomp foes with your lightsaber.

 

2.) Champions are cake, Elites are even easier, Bonus Series: I cannot say because I posed this question a while back with no response. My hope is that the level range will change depending on the area you are in with regards to the BS.

 

3.) I did read what you said and I responded with incentive. Currently WB have no incentive for doing other than just cause. The gear you get is quickly out leveled or not good at all. With level sync they will be giving incentive so the potential for easily getting a group together vs. now is greater because players will be rewarded for actually doing content on level.

[EllieAnne]

Good!

And I think that's a great point. Bioware's inability to discuss their own game, I agree, is hugely responsible for this.

I am coming to my conclusion on two strands of thought.

1. Bioware is, in fact, competent. (Someone may not like what they do, sure. That's not in doubt).

2. They have made allusion to 'new tech.'

2a. They said that it was 'new tech' that they implemented in putting all ops and FPs to 65. They insinuated that this would continue to be the case. So when we level to 70, so does the game.

2b. Levelsync does the same, in reverse, to the open world.

2c. They said this 'new tech' would allow them to do some 'cool things' come what may after KOTFE.

(2d. It does have a certain 'beauty' to it. Everywhere my hero or villan goes, the world is relevant.)

So, to me, it seems plausible that levelsync is part and parcel to what KOTFE has turned SWTOR into. I reserve judgment to whether I like it or not come 21 Oct.

 

1) Considering all of the bugs that have never been fixed and a run of updates that were "fix one thing, break two more" I don't know how many have the confidence you do.

2a) What is the new tech? A new engine? New bolster algorithm (see #1)? Better than cross-server?

2b) How does this new tech translate into required level-sync. It's like the Underwear Gnomes now are on the development team at EA

New Tech

...

Mandatory level-sync

...

Profit

[EllieAnne]

 

3.) I did read what you said and I responded with incentive. Currently WB have no incentive for doing other than just cause.

 

Incorrect

1) Conquest points (even more important to get endgame materials)

2) Weekly mission to kill 3 of them

3) Planetary 100% completion

4) Achievement for all of them (until BW erases it)

[thewitchdoctor]

1) Considering all of the bugs that have never been fixed and a run of updates that were "fix one thing, break two more" I don't know how many have the confidence you do.

2a) What is the new tech? A new engine? New bolster algorithm (see #1)? Better than cross-server?

2b) How does this new tech translate into required level-sync. It's like the Underwear Gnomes now are on the development team at EA

New Tech

...

Mandatory level-sync

...

Profit

 

Shrug. You could be right. Sure. Bioware may have just bet the farm on KOTFE.

 

Or, I don't know, you can refer to point one and suspect they have a modicum of competence.

 

You don't like it, that's fine. (Refer again to point one). I just don't think your complaints are based on anything outside of your bias. (And you appear enflamed by Bioware's poor PR - I'll give you that).

 

But, whatever. We have reached, again, enough circular arguing for the night.

[AntiochosTheos]

(And you appear enflamed by Bioware's poor PR - I'll give you that).

 

But, whatever. We have reached, again, enough circular arguing for the night.

 

I couldn't agree more. No way to break the vicious circle until Bioware tells us more. We all could be wrong afterall.

[sentientomega]

2.) Champions are cake

 

In your opinion, and this is the problem with players who happen to be la creme de la creme; if something's easy for them, they cannot possibly fathom how it could not be for anyone else, and instead end up inevitably looking down on anyone less-skilled as weak and inferior and unworthy. We're not all as...gifted, as you are.

 

And you're forgetting Oricon, or are you? The champions there are hell, even for a well-geared 60 char/comp (186 everything), and I'm not talking about a dps/dps pair. Remember, what may be a cakewalk for you may not be such for the rest of us.

 

Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder, just as I've said above.

 

On top of which, Eric's livestream demo is absolutely no indication that ALL heroics would be soloable; which means I won't know how I fare on Oricon and the other highest level heroics, until I get to test them, and receive either a pleasant surprise, or the rudest shock ever.

 

Incidentally, those Oricon champs really need a nerf.

 

And, failing that, we need to be down-synced to no lower than 5 levels above the max on planets as high as Oricon; if I found myself below 60 synced on Oricon, it'll just go to show that BW:A has ignored story in at least one area, the other being Cz-198, where two tacticals are the story, especially since the heroic there is part of the story, and without completing it you can't finish the weekly, part of a tragic time when planet story and group content were welded together, Ilum also being evidence of this, but fixed in 4.0.

Edited October 11, 2015 by sentientomega

[SelinaH]

Since H4s seem like they are all being converted to H2s it's easy to speculate that every Heroic will continue to be easy and not impacted at all.

That's kind of the point, Reno. Speculation. Many on the pro-mandatory side find speculation perfectly admissible -- but only when it bolsters their own argument. When it's used by their opponents, however, suddenly those players are "closed-minded" and "irrational" because "You won't know until you try it."

 

This isn't conducive to reasonable debate. Of course, I suspect there are a few posters (in this and other threads) for whom that isn't the objective.

[AntiochosTheos]

That's kind of the point, Reno. Speculation. Many on the pro-mandatory side find speculation perfectly admissible -- but only when it bolsters their own argument. When it's used by their opponents, however, suddenly those players are "closed-minded" and "irrational" because "You won't know until you try it."

 

This isn't conducive to reasonable debate. Of course, I suspect there are a few posters (in this and other threads) for whom that isn't the objective.

 

Hear, hear.

[Reno_Tarshil]

In your opinion, and this is the problem with players who happen to be la creme de la creme; if something's easy for them, they cannot possibly fathom how it could not be for anyone else, and instead end up inevitably looking down on anyone less-skilled as weak and inferior and unworthy. We're not all as...gifted, as you are.

 

And you're forgetting Oricon, or are you? The champions there are hell, even for a well-geared 60 char/comp (186 everything), and I'm not talking about a dps/dps pair. Remember, what may be a cakewalk for you may not be such for the rest of us.

 

Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder, just as I've said above.

 

On top of which, Eric's livestream demo is absolutely no indication that ALL heroics would be soloable; which means I won't know how I fare on Oricon and the other highest level heroics, until I get to test them, and receive either a pleasant surprise, or the rudest shock ever.

 

Incidentally, those Oricon champs really need a nerf.

 

And, failing that, we need to be down-synced to no lower than 5 levels above the max on planets as high as Oricon; if I found myself below 60 synced on Oricon, it'll just go to show that BW:A has ignored story in at least one area, the other being Cz-198, where two tacticals are the story, especially since the heroic there is part of the story, and without completing it you can't finish the weekly, part of a tragic time when planet story and group content were welded together, Ilum also being evidence of this, but fixed in 4.0.

 

The Champions in the Heroic on Oricon were soloable at 55 when it was still the new relevant content. If you feel you are not good enough to solo them then make yourself better at the game and you will find yourself in wonders of what you can take on by yourself at the relevant level.

 

That's kind of the point, Reno. Speculation. Many on the pro-mandatory side find speculation perfectly admissible -- but only when it bolsters their own argument. When it's used by their opponents, however, suddenly those players are "closed-minded" and "irrational" because "You won't know until you try it."

 

This isn't conducive to reasonable debate. Of course, I suspect there are a few posters (in this and other threads) for whom that isn't the objective.

 

Feel free to speculate all you want, I have no problem with it.

[Transcendent]

No way to break the vicious circle until Bioware tells us more.

 

I'm not so sure BioWare will tell us much more, aside from they're adding in Alliances. I get the impression BioWare are assuming that simply posting a "Blog" of the upcoming changes, and not really going to the effort of clarifying certain points raised, is good enough.

 

I could be proven wrong, in fact I'd love to be proven wrong. However this is BioWare, and this is the level of communication that I've come to expect from them, little to none.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Incorrect

1) Conquest points (even more important to get endgame materials)

2) Weekly mission to kill 3 of them

3) Planetary 100% completion

4) Achievement for all of them (until BW erases it)

 

You're right those are all incentives for doing them. But they are not enough to coerce players. In my opinion (not fact) players only care about getting shiny new loot, doing them for quests or conquest isn't enough to entice them and the people with OCD will likely ask their guildies to help them out. Dangle relevant rewards for high levels to go out and kill WBs with Level Sync and groups will be more likely to form.

[AntiochosTheos]

I'm not so sure BioWare will tell us much more, aside from they're adding in Alliances. I get the impression BioWare are assuming that simply posting a "Blog" of the upcoming changes, and not really going to the effort of clarifying certain points raised, is good enough.

 

I could be proven wrong, in fact I'd love to be proven wrong. However this is BioWare, and this is the level of communication that I've come to expect from them, little to none.

 

It would concur here. But I am not sure why that is. Do they not care? Do they not read the forums? It's clear there is a huge amount of confusion. Does Eric really have to ask so many people before he can manage the community as community manager with even a flimsy post?

[EllieAnne]

You're right those are all incentives for doing them. But they are not enough to coerce players. In my opinion (not fact) players only care about getting shiny new loot, doing them for quests or conquest isn't enough to entice them and the people with OCD will likely ask their guildies to help them out. Dangle relevant rewards for high levels to go out and kill WBs with Level Sync and groups will be more likely to form.

 

I just don't think the connection you're making exists.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I just don't think the connection you're making exists.

 

Oh well.