Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Faelandaea]

Yavin IV's Walker WB is still broken from 3.0 launch, and I haven't seen it spawned since Early Access. No joke.

 

Are we talking the walker that you can do the Weekly for that spawns in the Heroic area? It spawns every 12 hours I think. Just killed it yesterday. And it seems to always be around whenever I am there. Also, as is proper, it's always an Imperial group that kills it XD

Edited October 9, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Transairion]

Are we talking the walker that you can do the Weekly for that spawns in the Heroic area? It spawns every 12 hours I think. Just killed it yesterday. And it seems to always be around whenever I am there. Also, as is proper, it's always an Imperial group that kills it XD

 

Boy oh boy, if that's true no wonder I can never see it... I live in an APAC timezone, and if it's really every 12 hours (Gargath is 6 hours, Primal Destroyer and most everything else is 2 hours), then it's always dead because some USA guild has killed it earlier and by the time I log off it's about to respawn again =/

 

I've literally never seen it outside Early Access (when no one was geared enough to kill it), and no groups on Yavin when I've been there have reported seeing it either. Most often groups form then ask where it is, lol, dead on every instance.

 

 

If true, then why haven't they made it 20 minutes like Dreadtooth? Thus far my Lance Breaker achievement is impossible, it's never there. Every instance too!

Edited October 9, 2015 by Transairion

[Cavadus]

I feel like all of the people against mandatory level-sync would also welcome an expansion where all new mobs have only 1 HP.

 

I mean, why should we be expected to waste time on killing mobs when all of the mobs outside of heroics and WBs are just speed bumps anyways?

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Cavadus

[TUXs]

I feel like all of the people against mandatory level-sync would also welcome an expansion where all new mobs have only 1 HP.

 

I mean, why should we be expected to waste time on killing mobs when all of the mobs outside of heroics and WBs aare just speed bumps anyways?

 

I feel like people who feel the way you do, haven't taken the time to read any of the reasons people are actually against it.

[sentientomega]

Boy oh boy, if that's true no wonder I can never see it... I live in an APAC timezone, and if it's really every 12 hours (Gargath is 6 hours, Primal Destroyer and most everything else is 2 hours), then it's always dead because some USA guild has killed it earlier and by the time I log off it's about to respawn again =/

 

I've literally never seen it outside Early Access (when no one was geared enough to kill it), and no groups on Yavin when I've been there have reported seeing it either. Most often groups form then ask where it is, lol, dead on every instance.

 

 

If true, then why haven't they made it 20 minutes like Dreadtooth? Thus far my Lance Breaker achievement is impossible, it's never there. Every instance too!

 

I think they can afford to bring down the respawn time for the WBs, once 4.0 comes live.

[Princess_Chibi]

And that's why one might as well not offer any rewards for using it?

 

Seriously. That's why some people have issues with accepting the idea of an optional level synch. If it is optional then you should get a reward for using it so there is actually a chance people can use it effectively. Otherwise we're back to the scenario we described: 20% aren't using it and don't have a disadvantage. Ruining the feature for most other people by outfarming materials and quests to get gear. Good job. You destroyed a feature!

 

Having it optional and not at least offer a reward for doing it is not an option. That much should be clear. It shouldn't even be discussed.

 

Alssaran,

 

From your perspective, I can see that and I don't necessarily disagree that reward should slightly increase for slightly increased challenge (choosing to level-sync). Here's the thing, the majority of pro-mad posts ARE NOT making that argument. It isn't about risk vs. reward in almost every piece of material I've read (pretty much only yours makes this point). It's about forcing others to lower their stats so the game is "fair". It's about forcing superior players (pro optionals) with better gear/stats to drop to their level (pro mandatories) so that the pro-mads have a much easier time and aren't required to invest time/resources to compete with higher skill/gear players.

 

I don't care much for hyperbole but allow me to pose a possible hypothesis for this; many of the pro-mads may in fact be casual players who want rewards redistributed against pro-mandatory hardcore players. Based on your argument above, those who take on more challenge/invest more into the situation should be rewarded for that effort, correct?

 

So what's that say that those who don't invest the time/credits/skill into getting highest end gear, maxing out their skills and rotations, or simply don't want to compete with stronger players, want those players "brought down to their level"? Aren't pro-optionals justified in wanting a greater reward for having invested time/energy/resources in their toons?

 

Here's the one thing pro-mads aren't getting; this game isn't about "everyone else". Why is almost every argument a pro-mad makes about people other than themselves; about experiences other than their own? I don't get to tell you, Alsarran how to play your toon. I don't get to tell you that today is Friday, so the only content you can play is Section X until tomorrow, and by the way, your level will be reduced so the mobs are harder for you. Why would I do that? What's in it for me?

 

I don't care that you're on Belsavis, I don't care that you're questing or whatever you're doing, I don't care that you have 8mil credits in the bank or not, I don't care if you're farming nodes... The ONLY reason to care what another player is doing is if you're not keeping up with them. The only reason to care is if you're more efficient/better at harvesting nodes, WB's or killing mobs I want than I am. And the only reason I go cry to a developer to change how things work is if I want to reduce your ability to be effective so it matches or is less than mine, to give myself an advantage.

 

THIS is the pro-madnatories' point of view. Make other players less effective so they can compete. It isn't about game balance (there's no imbalance anywhere to be seen aside from player skill/stats); it isn't about "future content" (pro mandatories whine about this, but they have no insight into future BW releases and expacs anymore than you or I do); and it isn't about fairness (what's unfair about a better player receiving more reward than a lower skilled/geared one?)

 

It's about reshaping an MMO so every little league whiner gets a participation trophy and doesn't feel left out, even if they sat on the bench all game.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[Teladis]

Alssaran,

 

From your perspective, I can see that and I don't necessarily disagree that reward should slightly increase for slightly increased challenge (choosing to level-sync). Here's the thing, the majority of pro-mad posts ARE NOT making that argument. It isn't about risk vs. reward in almost every piece of material I've read (pretty much only yours makes this point). It's about forcing others to lower their stats so the game is "fair". It's about forcing superior players (pro optionals) with better gear/stats to drop to their level (pro mandatories) so that the pro-mads have a much easier time and aren't required to invest time/resources to compete with higher skill/gear players.

 

I don't care much for hyperbole but allow me to pose a possible hypothesis for this; many of the pro-mads may in fact be casual players who want rewards redistributed against pro-mandatory hardcore players. Based on your argument above, those who take on more challenge/invest more into the situation should be rewarded for that effort, correct?

 

So what's that say that those who don't invest the time/credits/skill into getting highest end gear, maxing out their skills and rotations, or simply don't want to compete with stronger players, want those players "brought down to their level"? Aren't pro-optionals justified in wanting a greater reward for having invested time/energy/resources in their toons?

 

Here's the one thing pro-mads aren't getting; this game isn't about "everyone else". Why is almost every argument a pro-mad makes about people other than themselves; about experiences other than their own? I don't get to tell you, Alsarran how to play your toon. I don't get to tell you that today is Friday, so the only content you can play is Section X until tomorrow, and by the way, your level will be reduced so the mobs are harder for you. Why would I do that? What's in it for me?

 

I don't care that you're on Belsavis, I don't care that you're questions or whatever you're doing, I don't care that you have 8mil credits in the bank or not, I don't care if you're farming nodes... The ONLY reason to care what another player is doing is if you're not keeping up with them. The only reason to care is if you're more efficient/better at harvesting nodes, WB's or killing mobs I want than I am. And the only reason I go cry to a developer to change how things work is if I want to reduce your ability to be effective so it matches or is less than mine, to give myself an advantage.

 

THIS is the pro-madnatories' point of view. Make other players less effective so they can compete. It isn't about game balance (there's no imbalance anywhere to be seen aside from player skill/stats); it isn't about "future content" (pro mandatories whine about this, but they have no insight into future BW releases and expacs anymore than you or I do); and it isn't about fairness (what's unfair about a better player receiving more reward than a lower skilled/geared one?)

 

It's about reshaping an MMO so every little league whiner gets a participation trophy and doesn't feel left out, even if they sat on the bench all game.

 

Everything you said sounds so far fetched, but you know what? That is all fine. You sadly did not counter our point, and even if what you said is true. That is just how the game is going to be now. This is the new swtor, and the people who are looking forward to to level sync and with some hope for the future that it gets expanded on. We will enjoy this game. You play on the same level as everyone else on the planet, or you just don't go on it. The last option would be quit the game. We don't even have to give points about it. We can just say. We don't want it to be optional and that is good enough.

 

Many of us are coming back to this game thanks to 4.0. Pre 4.0 is dull, it is boring and not worth a single cent of my time. The future is looking bright, and now they are getting support for myself and my gaming community. Change is coming. Adapting is key, and this is what a mmo is all about.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Teladis

[Princess_Chibi]

Everything you said sounds so far fetched, but you know what? That is all fine. You sadly did not counter our point, and even if what you said is true. That is just how the game is going to be now. This is the new swtor, and the people who are looking forward to to level sync and with some hope for the future that it gets expanded on. We will enjoy this game. You play on the same level as everyone else on the planet, or you just don't go on it. The last option would be quit the game.

 

Many of us are coming back to this game thanks to 4.0. Pre 4.0 is dull, it is boring and not worth a single cent of my time. The future is looking bright, and now they are getting support for myself and my gaming community. Change is coming. Adapting is key, and this is what a mmo is all about.

 

Would you like me to counter your points? Here, let me do that for you.

 

Everything you said sounds so far fetched, but you know what? That is all fine. You sadly did not counter our point, and even if what you said is true.

 

And yet, here you are whining, that's empirical evidence that a portion of what I've said is somewhere in the realm of accuracy, but please, continue.

 

That is just how the game is going to be now. This is the new swtor, and the people who are looking forward to to level sync and with some hope for the future that it gets expanded on. We will enjoy this game.

 

Translation: "Too bad, so sad." You're not making an argument here, you're hiding behind the developers hoping they don't change their minds. At which point you'll go to your room and pout. SWTOR isn't new, it's a matured game and should be balanced with care, not changed at the whims of those unable to keep up with other players.

 

You play on the same level as everyone else on the planet, or you just don't go on it. The last option would be quit the game.

 

Translation: "If you don't like it, then quit." Your high road isn't very high so far. But keep trying.

 

Many of us are coming back to this game thanks to 4.0. Pre 4.0 is dull, it is boring and not worth a single cent of my time. The future is looking bright, and now they are getting support for myself and my gaming community.

 

Who are the "we" and "us" that you keep referring to in every single post you make? Did you start a union? Are you a member of the actual Church of the Jedi? You speak as if you represent a population of people; you don't. You're on a forum, posting your opinion, which from the above and most other posts you've made of late appears self-centered, save for the impact which adversely impacts other players. And you've shown a demonstrated lack of empathy for anyone else's player experience than your own; regardless of those impacts. You also aren't a self-standing gaming community, nor do you own one...

 

Adapting is key, and this is what a mmo is all about.

 

So why aren't you adapting to the fact that there's a population of players who don't want level-sync? Why aren't you adapting your viewpoints to offer alternatives instead of taking the "too bad, so sad" narrative I've now called attention to above? For someone advocating adaptation, you seem to only care about it when YOU aren't the one who has to adapt. That's hypocritical at best.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[Teladis]

Would you like me to counter your points? Here, let me do that for you.

 

Oh this should be good.

 

Translation: "Too bad, so sad." You're not making an argument here, you're hiding behind the developers hoping they don't change their minds. At which point you'll go to your room and pout. SWTOR isn't new, it's a matured game and should be balanced with care, not changed at the whims of those unable to keep up with other players.

Every MMO out has changed for one point or another. For a MMO to grow changes like this are needed. No long term MMOs ever stay near the same. From UO to Rift. Each mmo gets core game play changes. That is the very nature of mmos. If you can't adjust to changes like this. MMOs might not be for you.

 

Translation: "If you don't like it, then quit." Your high road isn't very high so far. But keep trying.

I like my high road. Logic makes me feel all good inside.

 

Who are the "we" and "us" that you keep referring to in every single post you make? Did you start a union? Are you a member of the actual Church of the Jedi? You speak as if you represent a population of people; you don't. You're on a forum, posting your opinion, which from the above and most other posts you've made of late appears self-centered, save for the impact which adversely impacts other players. And you've shown a demonstrated lack of empathy for anyone else's player experience than your own; regardless of those impacts. You also aren't a self-standing gaming community, nor do you own one...

Oh now this is cute, See I am part of three gaming community. Two of them play MMOs. When I say we, I am talking about them and also my wife. Alot of them hated SWTOR for good reason. It was a bad game still is a bad game now. If 4.0 lives up to the changes that we feel this game needed, and if they really do give out good content at a decent pace. One word from me, and my group will try it. You would not know about such things I know.

So why aren't you adapting to the fact that there's a population of players who don't want level-sync? Why aren't you adapting your viewpoints to offer alternatives instead of taking the "too bad, so sad" narrative I've now called attention to above? For someone advocating adaptation, you seem to only care about it when YOU aren't the one who has to adapt. That's hypocritical at best.

 

I don't really care what some players want. I don't care if they find it unfair. I don't even care if they leave. What I care about is that a feature that some of us could enjoy, and be expanded on. Wants to be gutted down by people who want it to be optional. What I care about is that if Bioware wants to make this game better. It does not need to listen to comments from people who don't want to adjust to changes even if they don't like it. Limiting improvements to many key parts of the game if they so wish it.

 

 

 

I can do this alll day.

[dscount]

I'll counter your points. Go play the way you want and I'll go play the way I want.

 

I want optional. Why?

1. Not because I want to ROFLSTOMP add's or WB's - Did that already, why would I again
   
2. Not because I go PVP grief (Cause you can do that still)
   
3. I want to visit planets and collect materials without agro of mobs (Like today)
   
4. I want to PLAY the game my way (I love crafting), but not have some stupid system in place slowing it (GRIND)
   
5. I've no doubt that BW is going to screw this up. Note: PVP Bolster took months to resolve
   
6. More and more "QA done on boss XYZ" conversations confirms BW has not fleshed out Level-Sync
   
7. I did GW2 with level sync and it sucked and added more frustration than was worth it.
   
8. I don't care about the H2 Rewards anyways so I'll likely not be using them.
   
9. I do want ONE feature of OPTIONAL and that's to once in a blue moon help a fellow guildie level up. (That is the ONLY value add this entire change has.)
   
10. Every new player to the game is going to HATE grinding 1000 kills for each companion now. Sad for them, but I've already done most of mine and will wrap up any lose ends prior to 4.0 if level sync happens.
    
11. I took the time to level MOST of my characters to 60 without 12xp and slightly annoyed that johnny NEWBIE that just got the game yesterday can roll a new character and have almost equal challenge killing stuff next to me with Level Sync.
    
12. Level sync (If BW's gift to SWTOR Users you claim it to be) doesn't UP LEVEL you to new planets you have not reached, then why should it DOWN LEVEL me to planets I've already seen?
    

 

Bottom line: You are not going to agree with anything those asking for optional, but thats to be expected from someone blinded by "Must be my way or the highway and Momma EA and Daddy BW said it was this way".

[Glower]

Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

 

Dat revival for low level (or new) chars. Game savior for all my 60lvl's!

[Uruare]

 

 

I can do this alll day.

 

Get a job.

[Teladis]

Get a job.

 

Would it make you sad to know, that I can work and post on the forums. My life is good.

[dscount]

I think they can afford to bring down the respawn time for the WBs, once 4.0 comes live.

 

No kidding... if we get screwed with Level Sync like all the wall of text fan boys want...

 

At least they can DROP the respawn rates across the board on world bosses. So something of value can come out of this change.

[HarleysRule]

The only thing about to happen that might be a revival of this game is the new movie, and that will likely be temporary. After the newness wears off, they'll move on, while the people leaving over these changes won't be back until 5.0, if ever. No one is holding off playing this game because they are waiting for level sync lol.

[Teladis]

The only thing about to happen that might be a revival of this game is the new movie, and that will likely be temporary. After the newness wears off, they'll move on, while the people leaving over these changes won't be back until 5.0, if ever. No one is holding off playing this game because they are waiting for level sync lol.

 

Game needs a lot more than level sync to win new players and old ones to come back. It is a nice start. Also making the expansion free for sub as well.

 

And really, I doubt people will leave over this change, the ones who do will still play, and sub for the new content. Bioware will still get money from them.

[Uruare]

Would it make you sad to know, that I can work and post on the forums. My life is good.

 

Why would that make me sad? You're not exactly on my list of things to have strong feelings about.

 

You are, however, the pigeon nobody should play chess with. You just crap on the board and strut around like you've won.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Uruare

[HarleysRule]

Not just sync that's going to make people quit. A lot of crafters are really getting bent over by this.

[dscount]

Game needs a lot more than level sync to win new players and old ones to come back. It is a nice start. Also making the expansion free for sub as well.

 

And really, I doubt people will leave over this change, the ones who do will still play, and sub for the new content. Bioware will still get money from them.

 

I agree that movie will generate new players, but I seriously doubt they will stick around after a couple months. Then only the long term gamers that love the REST of the game will be around (Maybe).

 

I'm going to wait and see, but my list of "Game sucking reasons to leave" is growing as more details come out on 4.0 this last week. Crafting is seriously BW Brain = OFF as all my past enhancements schem's are going "Poof".... Plus conquest rewards broken, conquest changes and no PVE repeatables like PVP/GSF.

 

I think its a gamble and will generate revenue for short term, but long term I suspect will bite them in the backside for pissing off the mass of vet players. (Besides those "Pro Level Sync" fan boys I mean)

Edited October 9, 2015 by dscount

[Quraswren]

SNIP...And really, I doubt people will leave over this change, the ones who do will still play, and sub for the new content. Bioware will still get money from them.

 

I think some will leave over it but mostly it will be a catalyst to the other negatives of the expansion that fuels gamers leaving.

 

The massive lack of new end game group content for PVE and PVP and knowing story will be so short lived. Most past content now solo. Go and do something you used to do for a bit of fun, just find yourself down leveled which didn't make it more fun but made it more tedious. No extra fun added. It did comes with the benefit of playing with a friend but that will be short lived for how fast you level up and most are there for the story so there not staying on any one particular planet anyway. Lets be honest, that could have been done without making everyone having to do be down leveled.

 

Will down leveling revive SWTOR? Not a chance. It's not that interesting as a game feature nor does it make old content interesting after 4 years. Not really the leveling up game gamers signed on for.

[Bakakiba]

Why would that make me sad? You're not exactly on my list of things to have strong feelings about.

 

You are, however, the pigeon nobody should play chess with. You just crap on the board and strut around like you've won.

 

You felt strongly enough to post in the first place.

 

And frankly, that's how chess should be played.

 

 

Will down leveling revive SWTOR? Not a chance. It's not that interesting as a game feature nor does it make old content interesting after 4 years. Not really the leveling up game gamers signed on for.

 

By iteself? No. However, if it is indeed the foundation on which future content is built, perhaps.

[MandFlurry]

Ok, so I posted that I don't like level sync... however, I am trying to see the upside, and I did just think of one situation where it could be a "good thing".

 

Imagine you're leveling, you're on Tattonine, and you're enjoying the place, you want to do the full planet story, the side missions, everything. Normally you end up outleveling the place, getting just 6 XP per mission after awhile making it kinda depressing to carry on, knowing that you'll have to do the same stuff on the next planet.

 

But instead, with level sync, you'll never quite outlevel Tattonine, instead you'll keep getting XP. So lets say you love Tat but hate Alderann, you can do everything on Tat, level up a bit, then go do just the class missions and blast out Alderann and move on asap since you arrived at Alderann a bit overleveled for it.

 

This does open up options to "level your way", doing extras one place, just the class missions somewhere else, always earning something from it rather than almost nothing.

 

Just trying to see the positive here.

 

For me and a lot of other leve-sync is more the down fall of this game. It's a Pathetic use of Recycled old junked up missions that doesn't have any baring on what is happening anymore,

 

It's pretty much like the Devs saying: screw were not gonna put All our time, money and resources into making New Content which most ppl want, were gonna Rehash Old Heroics and Flashpoints that have little to know meaning whatsoever. Then we will screw Everyones levels that Ppl work so hard for and Lower them to rediculously low level'd, that they can get killed even on Starter planets, Yay. That's the Devs.

 

Instead of putting/ giving ppl what they want with at least 4 New Fp's and 4 More Ops, and a Hell of a lot more Story content we'll just FORCE Ppl to to do these junked up Heroics and Low-lvl fps, then Rehash the hell out of Current Ops, and Recycle them by way of level sync, Yay..... Kids isn't this fun:mad:

 

Devs: but that's not all boys and girls, but you will be able to do this from now on, every time there will be an expansion in SWTOR 2, all we have to do is level sync you guys to do the same ol' crap over and over again, Yay.

 

If the Devs do NOT have the Intelligence to do New Content and add a Lot more for Pvp, then They should be Fired.

[curulz]

I said in another thread before, I don't visit old planets now and doubt I will going back in 4.0, so I don't see this impacting me in any meaningful way. So I don't have a dog in the fight.

 

I have seen the arguments for and against mandatory level sync but I do not see the benefits outweighing the potential negatives. I also fail to see how this change in and of itself will attract or retain customers.

[Uruare]

You felt strongly enough to post in the first place.

 

Clearly, that means I care deeply and am moved to heights of passionate fury and depths of bleak, black sorrow.

 

Clearly.

 

And frankly, that's how chess should be played.

 

You're a special lad, aintcha.

 

 

 

 

By iteself? No. However, if it is indeed the foundation on which future content is built, perhaps.

 

If. /If/.

 

Right now, we've got confirmation that essential crafting mats from conquest goals will be a thing, and conquest will be shut off for a whole month because reasons, something's broken, can't fix it, we don't have the technology or I don't even know and neither does anybody else.

 

But hey, lets invest all kinds of trust in that there'll be these super things that'll be amazing someday, if only we shut up and get in line and buy into this shlock about no choice being magical today!

 

Sounds like religion. Peddle faith in Bioware elsewhere.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

By iteself? No. However, if it is indeed the foundation on which future content is built, perhaps.

 

When the terms "if" and "perhaps" along with "maybe" all the way to "not right now but maybe later" Those are all terms that carry so little weight when it comes to game companies in my eyes (as well as people most of the time). Just having to use them makes about anything that follows pointless.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Quraswren