Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Teladis]

Isn't that just as much an argument against copying levelsync (in any form) from games that already do it?

 

Not really.

 

Having it optional could mean we get less content. One example could be world events. This also gives devs room to design content for older planets if they wanted to do it. Overall the system is a win for both sides as now content can come out for all levels and still be rewarding for all levels if the devs pick to do it. If people could turn off level sync it could not only ruin events. It would have to be balanced around it.

 

Even playing field is the best choice.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Teladis

[Uruare]

Time to vent some after a plethora of posts going nowhere fast.

 

<venting>

Here's your (group usage for those that cannot figure that out) special snowflake medal and certificate of aggrievement for Bioware not catering to your special needs.

 

Snarky response? By this point in time, absolutely snarky. Just about every negative post about the change is opining about how it will affect the poster. My play style is being affected. My standard of communication wasn't met. My feelings were hurt. I deserve this. I'm entitled to that. I, I, I, me, me, me. Wah, wah, wah, cry me a torrential river.

 

Stop threatening to quit over this, that and the other and just quit. Might as well since none of the demands to stop the changes will be accommodated. Level sync for all is happening. Combat changes are happening. Crafting changes are happening. Companion changes are happening. Conquest changes are happening.

 

</venting>

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum posts.

 

If people post in a fashion presuming to speak for a group, they're dismissed as pretentious and non-representative.

 

If people post acting like the know things that don't, they're not taken seriously and generally dismissed quite energetically.

 

That's well and fine.

 

But now people are to be castigated and called out for speaking strictly towards their own feelings and experiences?

 

Not joining you on that one.

 

Nobody here had anything valid to actually comment upon or about anyway.

 

Nobody here knows much by way of facts to do with Bioware's metrics and data on anything. Nobody here knows what's actually going on behind the scenes; not really.

 

So, you've basically told everyone we're not allowed to talk at all anymore.

[Max_Killjoy]

Not really.

 

Having it optional could mean we get less content. One example could be world events. This also gives devs room to design content for older planets if they wanted to do it. Overall the system is a win for both sides as now content can come out for all levels and still be rewarding for all levels if the devs pick to do it. If people could turn off level sync it could not only ruin events. It would have to be balanced around it.

 

Even playing field is the best choice.

 

There is no "playing field" to be even. This isn't a competition.

 

There's no win at all for those of us not interested in being downleveled. It doesn't make the game better for us in any way, and instead of some content, we get effectively NO content, unless it happens to be max-level. The only way to make levelsync win-win is to make it optional. Everything else turns the enjoyment of the game into a zero-sum, with those who like levelsync gaining at a 1:1 ratio or worse to the loss of enjoyment for those who aren't interested in levelsyncing, for whatever reason.

 

Older planets don't need new content -- new content needs new planets, or expansion of woefully underused planets.

 

Mannan is out there, with one little floating platform and a couple of instances.

 

Shame they dumpstered Ziost, that was a place with a lot of potential before they threw it away on an immensely silly and pointless Dragonball Z moment.

[TravelersWay]

Not really.

 

Having it optional could mean we get less content. One example could be world events. This also gives devs room to design content for older planets if they wanted to do it. Overall the system is a win for both sides as now content can come out for all levels and still be rewarding for all levels if the devs pick to do it.

 

And how, pray tell, would they design said future content for lower level planets?

Before you answer, please take note:

 

BW is going more story-focused now, so to keep things making sense, story-wise, they would have to take into account the changes that have affected the current explorable planets in the game. They have already said that they are not changing any of the planets to reflect the results of the Zakuul invasion.

 

There are already low level planets in which higher level characters are taken to complete portions of their story-line quests. There has been no issue with this in the four years the game has been running.

 

Any new content they add would already be designed to reflect the level cap, since (as mentioned) the content would be coming after the events as they are playing out in the new KotFE story-line.

 

Other games that have world events also have optional downleveling systems. Seems to work fine in those games.

[Teladis]

And how, pray tell, would they design said future content for lower level planets?

Before you answer, please take note:

 

BW is going more story-focused now, so to keep things making sense, story-wise, they would have to take into account the changes that have affected the current explorable planets in the game. They have already said that they are not changing any of the planets to reflect the results of the Zakuul invasion.

 

There are already low level planets in which higher level characters are taken to complete portions of their story-line quests. There has been no issue with this in the four years the game has been running.

 

Any new content they add would already be designed to reflect the level cap, since (as mentioned) the content would be coming after the events as they are playing out in the new KotFE story-line.

 

Other games that have world events also have optional downleveling systems. Seems to work fine in those games.

 

How can they do it? Story that goes to that planet? I mean you can do a lot of things with it. They could stop a side quest add new ones. Change mobs for events..they have more room to work with.

 

I gave just one example of why this new system should not be optional. That one thing is enough for me. Also like I said, I don't like the thought of using a system and high level people just farming mobs easier just because they don't like it. If a system is in, I want all to use it. Not one side have a edge for not using it.

 

I doubt you can change my mind about that.

[sentientomega]

I've updated my idea for the options within the overall idea of the mandatory sync, it's the link in my signature, I like the idea of a mandatory level sync; but I don't like that we can't get to pick a level in and around the max level, depending on what kind of difficulty we wanted.

 

My idea should still maintain the integrity of the sync, while allowing the challenge-hungry and casual players alike to really enjoy it. For those players who want to over-level (and I mean reasonably, absolutely NO WB soloing! Tut-tut!), they can; for those players who want to under-level, they can also do that.

 

And, I feel this way, because I respect this fact: difficulty is in the eye of the beholder.

[LordBeeDoO]

Well, tons of level sync threads, I am not here to argue, just to state that I am for full and mandatory level sync.

 

Optional would destroy half of advantages level sync has - e.g. worldbosses might be alive somewhere when cannot be soloed, chance at least to fight in pvp areasagainst higher level players.

 

For me sync is great opportunity to get back to old heroic for conquests/ achievements / fun with guildies and get something useful out of it. All the changes announced (except removing achievements) is for me godd step forward.

[TheDT-Sniper]

Optional Level sync I second that! Just like with the 12x!

[Princess_Chibi]

I'm not tallying up drawbacks for each side's arguments, it's not a system that's in place right now. I understand if the system goes in and it's optional, those who choose to use it are at a disadvantage from those who do not. The argument I'm making, is those SAME PLAYERS are at a disadvantage now (which is why they're whining).

 

In 2 out of 3 scenarios (1. Leave things as they are, 2. Level sync optional, 3. Level sync forced) the "special snowflakes" are at a disadvantage (specifically options 1 and 2). The ONLY scenario under which they feel "balanced" and the system fair is one in which the fundamental ideas of strength/stats are redesigned and force everyone to come down to their level (quite literally). Level sync is a system that compensates for lack of investment (be that time, credits, virtual resources) and arguably skill in the game.

 

Making it optional is equivalent to leaving things as they are for those who like them as they are, while still giving the snowflakes their "level playing field" with other like-minded individuals. You're right that under dog-eat-dog circumstances, the snowflakes are at a disadvantage. But here's why every pro-choice doesn't care; the snowflakes CHOOSE to be at a disadvantage by turning that option on. We don't get to opt out, there is no alternative for pro-choice players under forced mandatory level sync.

 

We're offering pro-mandatory players a choice (they can flip the switch and level sync with their friends), but it has drawbacks (level 60-65's are statistically superior); they're offering us NO choice, and telling us "too bad, so sad". It's not a zero-sum game, but only under a zero sum game do they consider the system viable. If you choose to play a zero sum game with a superior power, by definition, YOU LOSE. That is why Level Sync being optional is a logical choice. Pro-mandatories want to redesign the game so that being in a statistically or level-inferior position still allows them to compete with superior (by way of stats/gear/level) competition.

 

THAT makes zero sense... Pro-mandatory players are asking BW to redefine weak/strong so that if a strong player goes to Tatooine to play, the scenario switches to weak/weak, which pro-mandatory players consider "fair".

 

 

 

Quoted for emphasis.

[Teladis]

Well, tons of level sync threads, I am not here to argue, just to state that I am for full and mandatory level sync.

 

Optional would destroy half of advantages level sync has - e.g. worldbosses might be alive somewhere when cannot be soloed, chance at least to fight in pvp areasagainst higher level players.

 

For me sync is great opportunity to get back to old heroic for conquests/ achievements / fun with guildies and get something useful out of it. All the changes announced (except removing achievements) is for me godd step forward.

 

That is another good point as well.

 

Optional ruins a lot of the features of it. No thanks.

[Sildanar]

Not really.

 

Having it optional could mean we get less content. One example could be world events. This also gives devs room to design content for older planets if they wanted to do it. Overall the system is a win for both sides as now content can come out for all levels and still be rewarding for all levels if the devs pick to do it. If people could turn off level sync it could not only ruin events. It would have to be balanced around it.

 

Even playing field is the best choice.

 

Great post, nice explanation of at least one good reason for a universal system.

 

Well done

[Alssaran]

Quoted for emphasis.

 

And that's why one might as well not offer any rewards for using it?

 

Seriously. That's why some people have issues with accepting the idea of an optional level synch. If it is optional then you should get a reward for using it so there is actually a chance people can use it effectively. Otherwise we're back to the scenario we described: 20% aren't using it and don't have a disadvantage. Ruining the feature for most other people by outfarming materials and quests to get gear. Good job. You destroyed a feature!

 

Having it optional and not at least offer a reward for doing it is not an option. That much should be clear. It shouldn't even be discussed.

[sentientomega]

The only thing I believe should be optional, and my idea (see my signature) goes into more detail.

 

The sync should be mandatory, no question; but the options would be for the level range, but you could NEVER EVER EVER be any higher than 6 levels above the planetary max, for any given planet.

 

All PvP-flaggeds will share just ONE synced level, the standard one.

 

How the scale would work with this suggestion would be like so, in-game (Level range, BW:A's standardised sync, my sync recommendation):

 

Korriban/Nal Hutta/Ord Mantell/Tython (1-10, 10, 8-10)

Coruscant/Dromund Kaas (10-16, 18?, 14-20/21)

Balomorra/Taris (16-20, 20, 18-24)

Nar Shaddaa (20-24, 24, 22-28/29)

Tatooine (24-28, 28, 26-32/33)

Alderaan (28-32, 32, 30-36/37)

Balmorra/Taris (32-36, 36, 34-40/41)

Quesh (36-37, 37, 34-42/43)

Hoth (37-41, 41, 39-45/46)

Belsavis (41-44, 44, 42-49/50)

Voss (44-47, 47, 45-52/53)

Corellia (48-50, 50, 48-55/56)

Black Hole/Ilum/Section X (50, 50, 48-55/56)

Makeb (51-55, 55, 53-59/60)

Cz-198/Oricon (55, 55, 53-61).

Rishi (55-57, 57, 55-63)

Yavin (58-60, 60, 58-66)

Ziost (60, 60, 58-65).

 

I know it's only my idea, but I really think it's the best solution for all players.

Edited October 9, 2015 by sentientomega

[TheDT-Sniper]

They can have the events instanced based or have the event scale with the players level and not the other way around. #LoseSync

[Faelandaea]

They can have the events instanced based or have the event scale with the players level and not the other way around. #LoseSync

 

yeah I only WISH. But unfortunately one of the driving forces of open world MMO games would be: "You absolutely have to compete with a bunch of greedy bastards in order to hope to complete your mission on time." Instances would fix that, so they will never be considered. To be frank I am bloody SURPRISED that we even have story instances in this game.

 

I have always loved full instance games. The original Guild Wards was the perfect MMO when it was around - you interacted with players in the city, but once you went out into the world - you had your own instance. And the performance was OUTSTANDING! I miss that game. But alas it died when GW2 came out with "no one has a role - let's just play to play - oh and let's make open world shared maps."

 

Okay I am rambling now. Time for sleep.

[Teladis]

They can have the events instanced based or have the event scale with the players level and not the other way around. #LoseSync

 

And limit the devs even more so? Sorry, not buying it. Instances are nice, but it still is not good enough. Maybe they want every one in the planet to feel part of it? Maybe they want people to see the effects on the world? Or better yet people group up to fight a new boss threat? Adding world elements that get people to work with each other? Level sync helps with all that. If they could easily beat it by over leveling. The content design loses all meaning.

 

 

So many nice things that can be done with this system. The few negatives people talk about is such a small thing compare to what we could gain.

[sentientomega]

I'm totally for a mandatory level sync system, BUT is being able to have the OPTION to over-level by a mere FOUR to SIX levels (enemies CAN still fight back, AND cause damage) really that bad?

 

It's not as if anyone that high has even a remote chance of WB-soloing, which is why I recommended it.

Edited October 9, 2015 by sentientomega

[mephistosaurus]

What I don't get is why some people defend this being mandatory so fiercely. Optional is perfectly reasonable, as long as people pay to sub, what does it matter if they want to spam kill grey mobs. Its nobody else's business if that's what they find fun.

Changing the way open world interactions are handled like this feels generic. If we have to visit planets for Kotfe content, it can be switched on that's what you are questing and have a separate instance for the 60-65 lvl players only, with the separate mobs and side quests to allow for leveling and group activity's. That's not asking a lot for a subscription based game.

If I run around on lowbie planets and hunt for datacrons, achievements, exploration completion, mcr-99 droids, I don't want to be bothered with the lowbie mobs... I did my grind, and payed my dues... im over it. Forcing this on people is wrong, no matter the perceived benefits to others.

 

If you want to run around open world flagged for PVP, people will troll you. This system will not grant lvl 15's 2018 expertise so if a lvl 60 in pvp gear attacks you, you are toast. Level synch will not fix this.

 

Also can anyone actually believe this is going to work well, with such a disastrous track record for breaking things? IE PvP bolster still busted...

 

im not advocating they cancel this, but doesn't it now make sense why they waited so long to tell us about mechanical changes in game? level synch, crafting changes, which now require mats from conquest (which will be turned off for AT LEAST a month) to craft end game gear/components, Skill/level adjustments, and a select private closed beta which I doubt included a strenuous testing session on these changes. im just skeptical after the early access issues with SoR.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, tons of level sync threads, I am not here to argue, just to state that I am for full and mandatory level sync.

 

Optional would destroy half of advantages level sync has - e.g. worldbosses might be alive somewhere when cannot be soloed, chance at least to fight in pvp areasagainst higher level players.

 

For me sync is great opportunity to get back to old heroic for conquests/ achievements / fun with guildies and get something useful out of it. All the changes announced (except removing achievements) is for me godd step forward.

 

 

Oddly, from what I see going on in the actual game, I think we may have heard from all the subscribers who give the tiniest care for anything to do with world bosses. Right now, I almost never see anyone attacking the world bosses that are in fairly public areas, and I rarely, RARELY, see any reference to world bosses in chat channels. If people are trying to take down world bosses, at least on EH, then they're being exceptionally quiet and sneaky about it. Levelsync isn't going to change that.

 

And really, if the supporters of mandatory don't care what effect it has on the game for others... why should they care what effect making it optional would have on anyone else? (Rhetorical question.)

 

 

PvP -- expertise gear and retention of the full abilities/skills set is going to make "level playing field" PvP a sick joke on those who are looking forward to "no more ganking" and "fair fights".

 

And you know what's going to happen? Not long after levelsync goes live, we're going to see a constant stream of posts from regarding PvP about how down-synced players are "OP" and "imbalanced" and "unfair" and need to be nerfed. Bioware is going to have a "balance" nightmare on their hands, and face constant pressure to screw around even more, take more away from down-synced characters, and make them ever-closer to identical to "native local level" characters.

[Max_Killjoy]

And that's why one might as well not offer any rewards for using it?

 

Seriously. That's why some people have issues with accepting the idea of an optional level synch. If it is optional then you should get a reward for using it so there is actually a chance people can use it effectively. Otherwise we're back to the scenario we described: 20% aren't using it and don't have a disadvantage. Ruining the feature for most other people by outfarming materials and quests to get gear. Good job. You destroyed a feature!

 

Having it optional and not at least offer a reward for doing it is not an option. That much should be clear. It shouldn't even be discussed.

 

People already treat each other like crap, grief, gank, poach nodes and chests, ninja loot, rush in to tab mobs, and generally act like jerks.

 

No levelsync, mandatory levelsync, or optional levelsync -- nothing about any of those is going to change the fact that there are self-absorbed, selfish, and/or self-righteous jerks who go online to play video games.

[xxIncubixx]

Oddly, from what I see going on in the actual game, I think we may have heard from all the subscribers who give the tiniest care for anything to do with world bosses. Right now, I almost never see anyone attacking the world bosses that are in fairly public areas, and I rarely, RARELY, see any reference to world bosses in chat channels. If people are trying to take down world bosses, at least on EH, then they're being exceptionally quiet and sneaky about it. Levelsync isn't going to change that.

 

And really, if the supporters of mandatory don't care what effect it has on the game for others... why should they care what effect making it optional would have on anyone else? (Rhetorical question.)

 

 

PvP -- expertise gear and retention of the full abilities/skills set is going to make "level playing field" PvP a sick joke on those who are looking forward to "no more ganking" and "fair fights".

 

And you know what's going to happen? Not long after levelsync goes live, we're going to see a constant stream of posts from regarding PvP about how down-synced players are "OP" and "imbalanced" and "unfair" and need to be nerfed. Bioware is going to have a "balance" nightmare on their hands, and face constant pressure to screw around even more, take more away from down-synced characters, and make them ever-closer to identical to "native local level" characters.

 

still better then a lvl 65 running around one shotting everything including players

[Max_Killjoy]

still better then a lvl 65 running around one shotting everything including players

 

Well, according to the supporters of mandatory levelsync, when they're not telling us that this will make old content "a challenge" and "relevant", down-synced players are still going to be able to cruise through old content at will.

 

So really, if they're right, you're not going to be one-shotted by that level 65.

 

You're going to be 2-shotted, or stunned... and then 1-shotted.

 

Much more fun, right?

[Shipwright]

[quote=

And you know what's going to happen? Not long after levelsync goes live, we're going to see a constant stream of posts from regarding PvP about how down-synced players are "OP" and "imbalanced" and "unfair" and need to be nerfed. Bioware is going to have a "balance" nightmare on their hands, and face constant pressure to screw around even more, take more away from down-synced characters, and make them ever-closer to identical to "native local level" characters.

 

In the end, I am expecting that passives and abilities not earned at "level X", will be removed in level sync when down scaled to "level X". Maybe not, but I do expect a large outcry coming and I see little else BW could do other than ignore the complaints.

[Jimvinny]

This idea that someone would only want forced level sync so as to limit their disadvantage is ridiculous. It's the people who want optional level sync so as to to maintain their advantage who are the real "special snowflakes".

 

If you can't figure out how to drive through mobs without getting tagged and knocked off, you're a special snowflake. if you're mad because you can't solo a WB you never should have been able to in the first place, you're a special snowflake. If you can't handle the extra 2 seconds it's going to take to kill a mob when you're slightly less than a God in comparison to it, you're a special snowflake.

 

All irrelevant, however. This is a decision bioware has made with the best interest of the game and its repeatability in mind. Until we've actually seen the system in action, no one should be jumping to any conclusions.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Jimvinny

[Transairion]

If you can't figure out how to drive through mobs without getting tagged and knocked off, you're a special snowflake. if you're mad because you can't solo a WB you never should have been able to in the first place, you're a special snowflake. If you can't handle the extra 2 seconds it's going to take to kill a mob when you're slightly less than a God in comparison to it, you're a special snowflake.

 

Driving through mobs implies, going, well through them, which auto-aggroes at lower levels. Pre-speeding Piloting 3 (level 40 at the moment), you get knocked off obscenely easily, even by the lowest tier of mobs, any anything with a CC is basically instant-dismount. Once you get Speeder Piloting 3, then it's not such a hassle unless it's a planet like Oricon, where there's certain spots you can't avoid without stealth-ing by.

 

WB's have been soloable since Alpha/Beta I'm sure, since you could outlevel them. Level cap was 50 at launch, and first Imperial WB is level 18 with no oneshot mechanics like the Coruscant version. Most people solo them for the Weekly (which BW added, mind you), otherwise Conquest. Yavin IV's Walker WB is still broken from 3.0 launch, and I haven't seen it spawned since Early Access. No joke.

 

Time to kill a mob isn't so much a big deal, as it is en masse. Having just done just about every single planter grind achievement pre-KOTFE, I can tell you there's a lot of spread out silver mob achievements at about 500-1000 kills a pop. Most of them took hours upon hours of grinding as a 60 god, and weren't in areas one would normally casually kill them while levelling or questing without several hundred alts. Post KOTFE those are... well I wouldn't recommend them, they'll take that long.

 

 

There are ways Synch can be optional and not negatively affect anyone, except removing "forced grouping" artificially raising the amount of people grouping together. But I've harped on about those plenty before, and nobody wants to hear a broken record going either.

 

There's plenty of ways either system can work, enforced is what we're getting so far.