4.0 The dumbification of SWTOR.

[Eanelinea]

Actually, I'd be inclined to disagree.

 

I'll bet you he's not standing on Fleet making sure everyone that hits his Op group is geared for NiM in order to run the SM. I've seen this more times than I can count. But they can't make a premade either, evidently the people that have actually played with them have them on their ignore list.

 

I'll bet they aren't posting "Know the fights/have the achievement" for a SM op either.

 

You see, these, along with a myriad of others, including the "spacebar" spammers are what's wrong with grouping in this MMO. If you've found yourself doing any of these things, you are why this MMO is moving away from requiring groups for some content, or, more accurately, you and people like you that do the same things over and over.

 

I wonder, have you ever tried to use the justification of "If we wipe on the last boss, I can't get my completion this week" argument? This despite the fact that if you don't kill the last boss in an Op, you can run it until you do? Because I have seen that argument presented both in game and on these forums. People that don't have any idea how the mechanics actually work, dictating to others how they should play the game. They are what's wrong with grouping in this MMO, not people that play BioWare games for story; BioWare is sort of famous for story/character driven games.

 

I 100% agree with you!

 

Grouping doesn't bother me. Seriously, I do like grouping. It's the ones in flashpoints demanding people spacebar the **** out of the flashpoint that make me solo. I love raiding. But it's the ones who turn a nice operation, sm or hm, not counting nim since it'll be going away in most places, telling me to practice on a dummy, or learn a rotation, or that mod isn't the greatest in the game, or 'what? you're not putting out 100% threat/20k dps/40k heals???' when all I'm doing is doing the raid for fun. Sure, TOS/Rav HM is harder, but it should be about FUN not WORK. This is why I don't group.

 

Telling people they have to have 198 gear for sm lvl 50 raids. Kicking people for not spacebarring. Needing on every piece of gear, whether you actually do or not. ************ people don't know how to play or the more used l2p.

 

Us soloers MIGHT do more group content, if the ones who want us to join in on group weren't ******s.

[FerkWork]

And this is why I only group with my guild and bring in subs I like. Too many bads with too many excuses and blame everything else instead of improving themselves and getting less than 1k DPS on a fight and blaming elitism for the problems lol. If you want to learn join a guild or my guild and I'll show you the ropes. But if you got an ego and refuse to change or believe they are the best special snowflake then please stick to solo. If your gonna group you have to accept the fact that just maybe maybe spamming auto attack, burning all your energy/heat, standing in stupid, and not even bothering to know the mechanics this far late in the content cycle or even tell left from right then yes that's a problem. It doesn't upset me if you want to learn but if your there wasting everyone's time thinking that it's your God given right to make everyone else miserable by being a baddie then don't group up in Pugs. Pugs are for people who want to clear stuff fast or fools who think they can. Guild runs are for learning.

 

If you don't want to learn and still want the shiny loots that Progression Raiders get then you can always pay me for a carry as my Imp side guild can get you all the nice stuff for the right price.

 

Pugs/=/ Raiders

Lol

Edited September 29, 2015 by FerkWork

[psikofunkster]

I 100% agree with you!

 

Grouping doesn't bother me. Seriously, I do like grouping. It's the ones in flashpoints demanding people spacebar the **** out of the flashpoint that make me solo. I love raiding. But it's the ones who turn a nice operation, sm or hm, not counting nim since it'll be going away in most places, telling me to practice on a dummy, or learn a rotation, or that mod isn't the greatest in the game, or 'what? you're not putting out 100% threat/20k dps/40k heals???' when all I'm doing is doing the raid for fun. Sure, TOS/Rav HM is harder, but it should be about FUN not WORK. This is why I don't group.

 

Telling people they have to have 198 gear for sm lvl 50 raids. Kicking people for not spacebarring. Needing on every piece of gear, whether you actually do or not. ************ people don't know how to play or the more used l2p.

 

Us soloers MIGHT do more group content, if the ones who want us to join in on group weren't ******s.

 

Game wasnt launched yesterday, most of the fp are now old, you can't expect old players to read all those long dialogs with you, you can group with other newbies like you and read them though or you can reach level 60 and do all those fp solo at your own pace.

 

Regarding ops there are 2 modes with the same content, if you want to do the hm ones you need to meet certain requirements for the group to progress, that's the way the game is.

 

Regarding people needing in things the don't need there are 3 of them, the ones who have no idea about gear and need in all the ones who need it and the ones who need it for an alt. Thats why loot rules are clarified before starting the operation. Sorry but nobody Is gonna gear you for free and everybody is gonna pass..

Edited September 29, 2015 by psikofunkster

[branmakmuffin]

Game wasnt launched yesterday, most of the fp are now old, you can't expect old players to read all those long dialogs with you, you can group with other newbies like you and read them though or you can reach level 60 and do all those fp solo at your own pace.

If your time is so valuable that you can't deal with waiting a few seconds without spamming "spacebar plz!", then run with guildies only. Or perhaps stick to single-player games.

 

In multi-player games, you are sometimes going to encounter other players, some of whom do not play the same way you do.

[MSchuyler]

People like you are the reason this game becomes less of an MMO every year.

 

People such as yourself have a very narrow definition of what "MMO" means. You seem to feel that just because a game has many players that grouping is required. Where does it say in the word "Massive Multi-player Online" RPG that one MUST group? All it says is that the game accommodates a great many players. And that accommodation means the game can appeal to a wide variety of players and styles.

 

So if you want to PvP, you can PvP, but you don't have to. It's not required.

If you want to chase datacrons, you can, but you don't have to.

If you want to be exclusively a PvE player, you can do that.

If grouping in Ops and FPs is important to you, by all means do so.

 

You do have to finish the class stories to advance, which are essentially solo ventures, but you really aren't required to engage in any other fashion. An inclusive definition of what "MMO" means acknowledges this reality. One where "MMO" means "Group Play Required" does not. It's all about diversity.

 

The real mystery here is why some people feel the exclusive definition applies and everyone else is wrong. Just looking at the many opportunities in game should teach you the exclusive definition is the one that is wrong. It's supported by the facts of the game. So the question becomes, why do you care what other people are doing? Why don't you just do your thing and leave other people alone?

 

Now, if your answer is that it affects you because PUGs take a long time to pop, that tells you something, doesn't it? It tells you that players who are otherwise available are not interested in grouping with you. So the question morphs yet again into, Why don't players in game avail themselves of the many opportunities to group?

 

Could it be YOUR attitude? We've had plenty of testimony here on why people won't group. Basically the reason is because they don't like you. They don't like being vote kicked because they won't press the spacebar. They don't like being criticized because a piece of their gear is deemed "wrong" by the resident expert. In short, they find the whole experience of grouping distasteful.

 

And when they express this, as they have in this thread and others, your answers prove the point. "You can't expect us experienced people to let you see the scenes of the game when we've seen them a zillion times before." And, "If you can't be up to speed go play with some newbies."

 

Those kinds of answers and that kind of attitude is EXACTLY what people who refuse to group are talking about. People are not enamored with your character. They do not wish to hang out with you. They do not wish to endure your elitist attitude. If they knew you in person you would never be invited to dinner. They do not agree with YOUR definition of what an "MMO" is and the fact is, you cannot enforce your definition no matter how much you insist that your mistaken version is true. It demonstrably is not.

 

This game and its changes are not guided by what you think--fortunately. That you are not getting your way is not evidence that the "game is dying." It is evidence that the game is seeking a wide variety of potential players, of which your segment is but a small part. You're not that big of a fish in this pond. You do not get to dictate how things work.

[TirGavin]

You know, given that one of the best features (if not THE best feature) of this game is the class story from 1-50, I'm not sure getting a free 60 boost is worth it at all.

 

I actually like the idea of not having to worry about gearing my companions.

 

That all said, I agree with Kurin, nothing on the OP's post makes the game any less or more difficult. It reduces grind, but not play difficulty.

[TirGavin]

People such as yourself have a very narrow definition of what "MMO" means. You seem to feel that just because a game has many players that grouping is required. Where does it say in the word "Massive Multi-player Online" RPG that one MUST group? All it says is that the game accommodates a great many players. And that accommodation means the game can appeal to a wide variety of players and styles.

 

So if you want to PvP, you can PvP, but you don't have to. It's not required.

If you want to chase datacrons, you can, but you don't have to.

If you want to be exclusively a PvE player, you can do that.

If grouping in Ops and FPs is important to you, by all means do so.

 

You do have to finish the class stories to advance, which are essentially solo ventures, but you really aren't required to engage in any other fashion. An inclusive definition of what "MMO" means acknowledges this reality. One where "MMO" means "Group Play Required" does not. It's all about diversity.

 

The real mystery here is why some people feel the exclusive definition applies and everyone else is wrong. Just looking at the many opportunities in game should teach you the exclusive definition is the one that is wrong. It's supported by the facts of the game. So the question becomes, why do you care what other people are doing? Why don't you just do your thing and leave other people alone?

 

Now, if your answer is that it affects you because PUGs take a long time to pop, that tells you something, doesn't it? It tells you that players who are otherwise available are not interested in grouping with you. So the question morphs yet again into, Why don't players in game avail themselves of the many opportunities to group?

 

Could it be YOUR attitude? We've had plenty of testimony here on why people won't group. Basically the reason is because they don't like you. They don't like being vote kicked because they won't press the spacebar. They don't like being criticized because a piece of their gear is deemed "wrong" by the resident expert. In short, they find the whole experience of grouping distasteful.

 

And when they express this, as they have in this thread and others, your answers prove the point. "You can't expect us experienced people to let you see the scenes of the game when we've seen them a zillion times before." And, "If you can't be up to speed go play with some newbies."

 

Those kinds of answers and that kind of attitude is EXACTLY what people who refuse to group are talking about. People are not enamored with your character. They do not wish to hang out with you. They do not wish to endure your elitist attitude. If they knew you in person you would never be invited to dinner. They do not agree with YOUR definition of what an "MMO" is and the fact is, you cannot enforce your definition no matter how much you insist that your mistaken version is true. It demonstrably is not.

 

This game and its changes are not guided by what you think--fortunately. That you are not getting your way is not evidence that the "game is dying." It is evidence that the game is seeking a wide variety of potential players, of which your segment is but a small part. You're not that big of a fish in this pond. You do not get to dictate how things work.

 

I love you. Can we be friends?

[FerkWork]

I 100% agree with you!

 

Grouping doesn't bother me. Seriously, I do like grouping. It's the ones in flashpoints demanding people spacebar the **** out of the flashpoint that make me solo. I love raiding. But it's the ones who turn a nice operation, sm or hm, not counting nim since it'll be going away in most places, telling me to practice on a dummy, or learn a rotation, or that mod isn't the greatest in the game, or 'what? you're not putting out 100% threat/20k dps/40k heals???' when all I'm doing is doing the raid for fun. Sure, TOS/Rav HM is harder, but it should be about FUN not WORK. This is why I don't group.

 

Telling people they have to have 198 gear for sm lvl 50 raids. Kicking people for not spacebarring. Needing on every piece of gear, whether you actually do or not. ************ people don't know how to play or the more used l2p.

 

Us soloers MIGHT do more group content, if the ones who want us to join in on group weren't ******s.

 

HM Rav/ToS is fun work with the last bosses in each being some of the most challenging fun in the game. If you can't put the effort to learn and have fun at the same time then progression raising is not for you or for others. For me it's like puzzles to others. It's fun to solve it but at the same time you can't expect to solve the puzzle by trying to continually shove the wrong piece in. I've seen people go in optimistic yet not willing to put the effort in to beat a boss and give up. Doing only 3k on Torque isn't going to cut it, neither is having the tank not hold threat on Blaster punting the raid off, or people not focusing on the Double Down mechanic on Coratanni and one shot the raid. And don't get me started on Revan. As for SM you can do whatever you want as its faceroll with bolster come 4.0. As an aside, I hope they continue the trend of harder hard mode.

 

Also, NiM for DF, DP, SnV and TFB are staying.

[Bluejayoo]

Time Consuming does not equal difficult. Grinding requires patience, but not skill. Things that reduce the time commitment do not necessarily make things easy, they make them faster.

[psikofunkster]

If your time is so valuable that you can't deal with waiting a few seconds without spamming "spacebar plz!", then run with guildies only. Or perhaps stick to single-player games.

 

In multi-player games, you are sometimes going to encounter other players, some of whom do not play the same way you do.

 

Nope, gonna tell you something let's say you are in a FP there are 4 persons lets says 3 want to spacebar and you want to read the dialogs you are out of place my boi. Pretty much you are gonna get the kick or ending playing alone...

 

Now if the majority are the ones who want to read dialogs then pretty much that's a newbie's pug (with all the disadvantages, pretty sure a morning pug) and then its me who is out of place hence i if i want to play im gonna have to read dialogs...and if i'm not in the mood click leave group...as simple as that.

Edited September 29, 2015 by psikofunkster

[psikofunkster]

And this is why I only group with my guild and bring in subs I like. Too many bads with too many excuses and blame everything else instead of improving themselves and getting less than 1k DPS on a fight and blaming elitism for the problems lol.

 

I don't blame elitism but excuse me parsing 4k is not THAT easy and simple and obvious.

 

I have a sniper with 5 revanite peaces, full agumented, rest resurrected folowwing dulfy virulence rotation, pretty much i do 1.8k on DF SM last boss, on the opening pretty much 500k that's what parsec says.

 

I have seen PT dps with massassi implants parsing 4k....

 

Who is the easiest to blame? the player of course! ok but nobody can tell you the reason they just say: lack of ability. IMO there's something more...something elusive and i'm F tired of it.

 

So because you parse 4k and the others don't hence they suck....no my man there's something more...and i'd love to know what it is.

Edited September 29, 2015 by psikofunkster

[Khevar]

I have a sniper with 5 revanite peaces, full agumented, rest resurrected folowwing dulfy virulence rotation, pretty much i do 1.8k on DF SM last boss, on the opening pretty much 500k that's what parsec says.

Would you be interested in posting a link to a parse where this is happening to you?

 

It's possible there's something that could be gleaned from looking through the combat log.

[branmakmuffin]

gonna tell you something let's say you are in a FP there are 4 persons lets says 3 want to spacebar and you want to read the dialogs you are out of place my boi. Pretty much you are gonna get the kick or ending playing alone.

If you can get the others to agree to a kick because someone wants to do the convo, obviously no one can stop you.

 

Again, stick to guild runs or single player games. And we both know you time really is not all that valuable or you would not be playing a computer game in the first place.

 

Boi.

[Icykill_]

Don't care what happens. I play Bioware Games for the story more than anything else. Hate EA and the way they keep sucking every dime outta this game they can, but again its Bioware so as long as the focus is on story ill keep paying.

 

It's comments and people like you that make Bio think this ok... It's not...

 

 

Edit: someone already point this out to you... Guess you're in the minority of what players want...

 

People like you are the reason this game becomes less of an MMO every year.

[Juromaro]

It's comments and people like you that make Bio think this ok... It's not...

 

 

Edit: someone already point this out to you... Guess you're in the minority of what players want...

 

 

 

Define MMO? Define Majority? Everyone knows the vocal minority on the forums/reddit whatever doesn't equal majority, or do you speak for the thousands that don't go on the forums?

 

Bioware's biggest selling point of Swtor since Release and even during announcement wasn't PvP and Raids as far as the eyes can see, it has always been and always will be a "Story Driven MMO".

 

1/3rd of the population enjoy the solo aspects i.e story, 1/3rd enjoy pvp, 1/3rd enjoy endgame pve, with some mixes in between. People like you are what cause most of the community to prefer casual solo content...see what I did there?

[Raansu]

People such as yourself have a very narrow definition of what "MMO" means. You seem to feel that just because a game has many players that grouping is required. Where does it say in the word "Massive Multi-player Online" RPG that one MUST group? All it says is that the game accommodates a great many players. And that accommodation means the game can appeal to a wide variety of players and styles.

 

So if you want to PvP, you can PvP, but you don't have to. It's not required.

If you want to chase datacrons, you can, but you don't have to.

If you want to be exclusively a PvE player, you can do that.

If grouping in Ops and FPs is important to you, by all means do so.

 

You do have to finish the class stories to advance, which are essentially solo ventures, but you really aren't required to engage in any other fashion. An inclusive definition of what "MMO" means acknowledges this reality. One where "MMO" means "Group Play Required" does not. It's all about diversity.

 

The real mystery here is why some people feel the exclusive definition applies and everyone else is wrong. Just looking at the many opportunities in game should teach you the exclusive definition is the one that is wrong. It's supported by the facts of the game. So the question becomes, why do you care what other people are doing? Why don't you just do your thing and leave other people alone?

 

Now, if your answer is that it affects you because PUGs take a long time to pop, that tells you something, doesn't it? It tells you that players who are otherwise available are not interested in grouping with you. So the question morphs yet again into, Why don't players in game avail themselves of the many opportunities to group?

 

Could it be YOUR attitude? We've had plenty of testimony here on why people won't group. Basically the reason is because they don't like you. They don't like being vote kicked because they won't press the spacebar. They don't like being criticized because a piece of their gear is deemed "wrong" by the resident expert. In short, they find the whole experience of grouping distasteful.

 

And when they express this, as they have in this thread and others, your answers prove the point. "You can't expect us experienced people to let you see the scenes of the game when we've seen them a zillion times before." And, "If you can't be up to speed go play with some newbies."

 

Those kinds of answers and that kind of attitude is EXACTLY what people who refuse to group are talking about. People are not enamored with your character. They do not wish to hang out with you. They do not wish to endure your elitist attitude. If they knew you in person you would never be invited to dinner. They do not agree with YOUR definition of what an "MMO" is and the fact is, you cannot enforce your definition no matter how much you insist that your mistaken version is true. It demonstrably is not.

 

This game and its changes are not guided by what you think--fortunately. That you are not getting your way is not evidence that the "game is dying." It is evidence that the game is seeking a wide variety of potential players, of which your segment is but a small part. You're not that big of a fish in this pond. You do not get to dictate how things work.

 

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever. Why play to begin with then? FFXI was the last true mmo. That game required groups for EVERYTHING including leveling up. Great community, great content, none of the "everyone runs around and does their own thing and pretends its a single player game" garbage. You wanted to do something? Guess what? You gotta play with others. Was literally the greatest thing about that game and lasted over a decade and is still a sub game.

 

This game wont will be lucky if it reaches 6 years as it floats through the casuals burning through solo content and not giving actual MMO players anything to do so you have no dedicated player, just players that float through the game. KOTFE basically proves that BW has given up on the game and will just float the last few casuals through one last solo story before shutting the game down because none of them will hang around once they finish everything in 2 hours.

[Icykill_]

Define MMO? Define Majority? Everyone knows the vocal minority on the forums/reddit whatever doesn't equal majority, or do you speak for the thousands that don't go on the forums?

 

Bioware's biggest selling point of Swtor since Release and even during announcement wasn't PvP and Raids as far as the eyes can see, it has always been and always will be a "Story Driven MMO".

 

1/3rd of the population enjoy the solo aspects i.e story, 1/3rd enjoy pvp, 1/3rd enjoy endgame pve, with some mixes in between. People like you are what cause most of the community to prefer casual solo content...see what I did there?

 

But it won't be an MMO if they keep concentrating on making it single player story driven content with groups as an after thought the same as pvp is an after thought... We've seen how they've treated pvp for the last 3 years as an after thought... What do you think happens to actual groups as they become an after thought??... The game is heading to a single player model... They've all but admitted if you read between the lines... Single player is not MMO...

As for majority vs minority... Why do you think people started to play this game?... Because it was single player or because it was an MMO?... Anyone who is a long term player of this game is appalled at this move to a single player model...

This move to a single player model is only to grab a wider audience to take advantage of the movie hype... They miss the point that the long term players want an MMO... They will isolate us and a lot will leave and never to return... The movie hype will only last so long with the casual player who jumps from game to game... This model will destroy the game in the long term...

I know lots of people have predicted the end of the game over the years... But this really seems a short term grab for cash at the detriment of the games survival... Maybe that's the plan... Kill the game off in 6-12 months after the movie to make a game based on the new movie era... What ever the reason this game won't be able to be categorised as an MMO if they continue along this path...

So yes comments by the poster I was quoting aren't helpful and are in the minority

[Icykill_]

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever. Why play to begin with then? FFXI was the last true mmo. That game required groups for EVERYTHING including leveling up. Great community, great content, none of the "everyone runs around and does their own thing and pretends its a single player game" garbage. You wanted to do something? Guess what? You gotta play with others. Was literally the greatest thing about that game and lasted over a decade and is still a sub game.

 

This game wont will be lucky if it reaches 6 years as it floats through the casuals burning through solo content and not giving actual MMO players anything to do so you have no dedicated player, just players that float through the game. KOTFE basically proves that BW has given up on the game and will just float the last few casuals through one last solo story before shutting the game down because none of them will hang around once they finish everything in 2 hours.

 

Spot on...

[psikofunkster]

If you can get the others to agree to a kick because someone wants to do the convo, obviously no one can stop you.

 

Again, stick to guild runs or single player games. And we both know you time really is not all that valuable or you would not be playing a computer game in the first place.

 

Boi.

 

Nahh i don't kick people for that or entice them to do it. It was your herpiderp idea that. I assume you have been kicked many times from fps.

 

You don't need to tell me what i have to do. I don't like guilds i always prefer to pug. I also have my own game problems you know?

 

Your time is even less valuable my friend, reading these posts here instead of playing the game. oh wait, here you don't get kicked...gottcha.

Edited September 30, 2015 by psikofunkster

[Juromaro]

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever. Why play to begin with then? FFXI was the last true mmo. That game required groups for EVERYTHING including leveling up. Great community, great content, none of the "everyone runs around and does their own thing and pretends its a single player game" garbage. You wanted to do something? Guess what? You gotta play with others. Was literally the greatest thing about that game and lasted over a decade and is still a sub game.

 

This game wont will be lucky if it reaches 6 years as it floats through the casuals burning through solo content and not giving actual MMO players anything to do so you have no dedicated player, just players that float through the game. KOTFE basically proves that BW has given up on the game and will just float the last few casuals through one last solo story before shutting the game down because none of them will hang around once they finish everything in 2 hours.

 

FFXI was truly a great MMO, love it, that's about the only thing I agree with on your post.

 

FFXI grouping was great because everyone was helpful, failed attempts were accepted and overcame. What killed grouping for alot of casuals.....the learn to play noob communtiy imo. I was a hardcore raider all the way up to WoW, getting phone calls from my raid leader at 4am because a boss spawned and it took hours to down a boss. You know what killed group content for me? Watching a raid leader in WoW bash a player because she didn't get out of the fire fast enough. A game is suppose to be fun for everyone, the fun stops the moment it turns into a job, the moment you have to be a certain spec, with a certain gear level or you are classed as a newb and kicked from the group. People cleared Lich King raids in quest blues to prove a point that you didn't need BiS to down a raid, you needed teamwork and determination.

 

Hell look at pvp in this game, we lose by 5 points and it's **** you guys suck go kill yourselves. That kills any desire for a casual to make the jump into grouped content.

 

You act like KoTFE is the end of raiding, yeah the OPS are getting rehashed, but the drops are updated by level now, We don't know what KoTFE is going to offer next year, only that they said no new raids with the release of the expansion. It'll come and believe me it will eventually, but I can tell you right now what will happen. Those raids will be put on farm status within the month and people will be back on these forums saying "Your not showing enough attention to us, we demand more because we subscribe and so on so forth".

 

Well casuals subscribe too, people who are here for the story and the story alone subscribe, when was the story given attention? Hutt cartel was one planet, Ziost is just a daily planet and SoR was great but again just 2 more daily planets.

 

This MMO was advertised as a Story Driven MMO, not a Raid and PVP MMO, it's about time the story got some love. Sure some of the changes suck, well not for me but for others sure it looks bleak, but you can still pvp, can still raid and can still group if you want.

[Eanelinea]

Game wasnt launched yesterday, most of the fp are now old, you can't expect old players to read all those long dialogs with you, you can group with other newbies like you and read them though or you can reach level 60 and do all those fp solo at your own pace.

 

Regarding ops there are 2 modes with the same content, if you want to do the hm ones you need to meet certain requirements for the group to progress, that's the way the game is.

 

Regarding people needing in things the don't need there are 3 of them, the ones who have no idea about gear and need in all the ones who need it and the ones who need it for an alt. Thats why loot rules are clarified before starting the operation. Sorry but nobody Is gonna gear you for free and everybody is gonna pass..

 

I've done Hm and Nim content. I know all about the requirements. But getting all dictator on a person, even a progression raider, doesn't make them want to learn. There's a difference between telling people, 'okay we need to get our **** together, and practice a bit.' and 'OMG YOU PEOPLE SUCK ***' type of raiders. **I** know what is expected and I have no problem with it, but there ARE those who don't want to hear this crap, not from pugs and not from guildies.

[sentientomega]

And that's the point, MMO does not make grouping an unwritten rule, no matter how much some here would like to force it, it makes grouping a written option that some people, myself included, are happy to avail themselves of in the right circumstances.

 

Forcing people to group will just make them leave and never come return, I, for one, would not be playing this game if PvP and grouping were universally compulsory. They may be things I might like to do, but to progress, they should never be things I, nor anyone else, should have to do. WIth that in mind, ending Ilum with an FP was a real mistake, one they're fixing come 4.0 with a SOLO version of Battle of Ilum and False Emperor. Making the CZ-198 story two group FPs, also a big mistake, and would easily be fixed by making the mission line accommodate two SOLO versions of the Czerka FPs, as is ending Oricon with a "my way or the highway" op (or two?) instead of us just doing all the dailies (different versions of the story missions).

 

The Yavin IV story got it right; by giving us options, we could either group up for an op, or do the weekly to culminate in the solo boss fight. There was flexibility, something the MMO=must group despots want to destroy, mostly likely because they can't get groups, most likely because they've made too many enemies in the game. It isn't "nobody wants to group for anything", it's "nobody wants to group for anything with me", though there is this unfortunate prevalent misconception of "once a bad/newb/noob/troll, always a bad/newb/noob/troll". To say nothing of which, the MMO despots may want to indulge their superiority complexes as below, and they may be well known for it, and thus, group-less.

 

Which, rather defeated the purpose of actually playing the game, methinks; to have fun, positively. It's not fun when you're forced to group up in order to progress, it's not fun that, having been force-grouped, you are virtually abused, spat upon, and generally made to feel worthless by anyone else in the group.

Edited September 30, 2015 by sentientomega

[Icykill_]

FFXI was truly a great MMO, love it, that's about the only thing I agree with on your post.

 

FFXI grouping was great because everyone was helpful, failed attempts were accepted and overcame. What killed grouping for alot of casuals.....the learn to play noob communtiy imo. I was a hardcore raider all the way up to WoW, getting phone calls from my raid leader at 4am because a boss spawned and it took hours to down a boss. You know what killed group content for me? Watching a raid leader in WoW bash a player because she didn't get out of the fire fast enough. A game is suppose to be fun for everyone, the fun stops the moment it turns into a job, the moment you have to be a certain spec, with a certain gear level or you are classed as a newb and kicked from the group. People cleared Lich King raids in quest blues to prove a point that you didn't need BiS to down a raid, you needed teamwork and determination.

 

Hell look at pvp in this game, we lose by 5 points and it's **** you guys suck go kill yourselves. That kills any desire for a casual to make the jump into grouped content.

 

You act like KoTFE is the end of raiding, yeah the OPS are getting rehashed, but the drops are updated by level now, We don't know what KoTFE is going to offer next year, only that they said no new raids with the release of the expansion. It'll come and believe me it will eventually, but I can tell you right now what will happen. Those raids will be put on farm status within the month and people will be back on these forums saying "Your not showing enough attention to us, we demand more because we subscribe and so on so forth".

 

Well casuals subscribe too, people who are here for the story and the story alone subscribe, when was the story given attention? Hutt cartel was one planet, Ziost is just a daily planet and SoR was great but again just 2 more daily planets.

 

This MMO was advertised as a Story Driven MMO, not a Raid and PVP MMO, it's about time the story got some love. Sure some of the changes suck, well not for me but for others sure it looks bleak, but you can still pvp, can still raid and can still group if you want.

 

But it's no longer a story driven MMO

[sentientomega]

But it's no longer a story driven MMO

 

Why not? It IS driven by the story, you don't have to group up to progress if you don't want to.

[Khiriath]

But it's no longer a story driven MMO

 

No. It is still very much an MMO. There will be nine ops to use to grind gear. There will be daily FP rewards for grouping. WZs both unranked and ranked aren't going away.

 

The only difference will be the ability to watch cut scenes in a FP without someone saying something like "Skip you moron or is your space key broken", or more likely various unprintable versions thereof before initiating a vote kick. I've been playing this game for over 3 yrs, and I've never seen the cut scenes for most of the FPs.

 

Aside from Esseles/Black Talon the initial response was always demanding that others skip. Actually I gave up on trying to watch cut scenes after being kicked from my sixth consecutive attempt at the Jedi Prisoner FP for wanting to watch the cut scenes, learned early on, if I waned mission completion and accompanying rewards, mashing space bar was a must.

 

Since I came for the story driven and RPG aspects of this MMORPG, this put me off to FPs in general. To the point, that unless absolutely necessary, I don't play them. As far as group FPs... until the announcement that coms will not be converted but just have names changed, I haven't played a group FP in 6mos.

 

If you don't like the fact that people no longer want to group, then stop ignoring that that this an mmoRPG to which story is an essential part. Fight against the toxic community that doesn't allow ppl to play the RPG aspect without being called innumerous unprintables for wanting watch cut scenes.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Khiriath