Heat-Wave Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 No, it would be exactly the same with complaints etc. It is why developers do not tell people everything that is in works until they are certain it is going to work or if it will be ready in time for whatever date they had in mind. There is a world of difference between the stuff on the "wall of crazy" and stuff that is ALREADY IN THE GAME. Level scaling is not some "idea" that Bioware has, it is in the game now, on the closed PTS, being worked out. This isn't some "pie in the sky" idea, it has already been programmed and put into place. It is a HUGE change to the base game and no notice whatsoever has been provided. This is a big mistake. From the first day, 6 months ago, when Eric talked about "streamlined leveling", Bioware should have been talking about this, getting feedback, etc. It is way late now, considering it is already there. It might or might be be optional at launch, it might or might not even work at launch, but it sure isn't "wall of crazy" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) There is a world of difference between the stuff on the "wall of crazy" and stuff that is ALREADY IN THE GAME. Level scaling is not some "idea" that Bioware has, it is in the game now, on the closed PTS, being worked out. This isn't some "pie in the sky" idea, it has already been programmed and put into place. It is a HUGE change to the base game and no notice whatsoever has been provided. This is a big mistake. From the first day, 6 months ago, when Eric talked about "streamlined leveling", Bioware should have been talking about this, getting feedback, etc. It is way late now, considering it is already there. It might or might be be optional at launch, it might or might not even work at launch, but it sure isn't "wall of crazy" stuff. There is a world of difference between what I wrote and what you assume I wrote. I never said they need to post everything from wall of crazy. I said "stuff that is in works", meaning stuff they are working on implementing. I never even said that, now that I think about it. I said they should post about features that they are 95% sure will work as intended and on time. This feature is not such a thing. They are working on implementing it, but they are not sure it is going to work properly. Which is why they are not talking about it, because in their eyes, it is not ready to be shown to general public. And they are getting feedback, or they should be, from people who are testing this on closed test shard. If they are not getting feedback from those people, than that is a problem that needs to be fixed (presumably by getting rid of those people and get new people to test it). Also, if they announced "hey we are working on system that can bring you down to lower levels on older planets" the thread about it would be EXACTLY the same as it is now, people complaining how they level 65 Dark Council member should squash everything on DK by throwing a mean look at it, people screaming it needs to be optional, people saying it is cool feature for helping out their friends low level chars, etc. And also people would complain that BW doesn't communicate because there is not a yellow post on every third page... Edited September 21, 2015 by Aries_cz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 How can level scaling even work, many quests send you back to older planets example my level 50+ sith warrior goes back to korriban for his final quest am I level 10 again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) How can level scaling even work, many quests send you back to older planets example my level 50+ sith warrior goes back to korriban for his final quest am I level 10 again? Usecase scenario: Sith Warrior arrives to Korriban for their final quest, and enters the appropriate story instance Usecase A: Level scaling is disabled, player is at level 55 Player is at level 55, nothing changes Usecase B: Level scaling is enabled, player is at level 55 After entering the instance, player is assigned level and stat equal to level of quest plus few levels. All his abilities and gear remains, but their stats and damage/healing/defense output is scaled down. Usecase C: Player is below appropriate level Nothing happens, player is kept at their level. Edited September 21, 2015 by Aries_cz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I suppose you are right and that the scalling is different in the "personal" phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I've been relatively quiet all this time....relatively. Stat removal: Yeahhhhhh.....thanks for taking everything I have recently purchased (in game and real cash) and reducing it to decorative status....That 2 MILLION I just dropped getting the EXACT color and effect crystal I wanted/needed? I COULD have spent 180k and gotten the War Hero version since all the stats are going away.... FWIW, the stats that are on crystals aren't going away; at least as far as anyone knows. (Crit/Surge will be collapsed into one stat, but that doesn't much matter for crystals). Power and Endurance will still be around as separate stats (and apparently Expertise will still be separate as well). The character "prime" stats (Aim/Cunning/Will/Strength) are being collapsed into 1 Mastery Stat), and Crit and Surge are being merged. There's something happening with Defense and Shield, but I didn't track exactly what. Comps are losing player-adjustable stats in favor of a stat line based on level and Loyalty, which means you can put whatever gear on them you like to make them look the way you want, and they don't have to be re-geared to change roles. (If you bought them specifically for comps, you're a bit hosed, but you still have the option of using them on you characters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LydMekk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Please vote up this thread to make it more visible. Give it your 5 stars naow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm really struggling why people are so scared of this change. This is the change we've needed since launch, it will give the world a spark of life. We don't have to stand around in fleet doing nothing while waiting for a WZ or Raid. Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I personally can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it like at launch, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. Yep all those heroics which you probably skipped while leveling suddenly become more feasible, the only issue is what reward will higher levels receive for going back to leveling planets? Will the quests dynamically scale like they do with the gree/rakghoul/bounty broker events or will we be stuck with grey quests that offer poor amount of credits/rewards to higher levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I don't care either way but it's funny reading the posts of some here and then when 4.0 changes something they like they are up in arms. Can't wait to see who they will upset this week. Edited September 21, 2015 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm really struggling why people are so scared of this change. This is the change we've needed since launch, it will give the world a spark of life. We don't have to stand around in fleet doing nothing while waiting for a WZ or Raid. Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I personally can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it like at launch, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. Why does it always come back to insulting people who don't agree with you? "Why are you scared?" "Go play another game if you don't like it!" To be blunt, some of us have spent too long, too many times, waiting around for a bunch of people who randomly happen to want to do the same mission, with a real chance each time that one or more of them will turn out to be belligerent, clueless, spastic, under-leveled, terribly-geared, rushed, screaming at first-timers to hit the spacerbar, distracted by some real-world issue they should have dealt with instead of starting the mission, and/or a *********** ninja-looter. We'd rather just over-level and then go do a tour of the content we missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Please vote up this thread to make it more visible. Give it your 5 stars naow! It's FOUR weeks till launch of this expansion. Even if you hate the idea, you have to realize that removing it now would be the dumbest thing they could do. At this stage of developement, 99% of features, gameplay changes, balance, in-game economy etc are locked-in and have been designed with scaling in mind. Take the foundation and the whole house fells apart. Wait for it, test it, and if you still don't like it then continue asking for removal of mandatory scaling but for the moment, it's too late and would do more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The problem with grouping while levelling up is that new players are pressured and moaned at to skip content because others have seen it and that has put me off of grouping pre-max level, i find grouping distasteful due to players like that. I play for the story, i have seen it loads of times and i still find it awesome to watch, i pay the sub for the story, if i wanted a storyless game, i would be playing wow....that is a clickfest if there is any such thing. While i do not like the idea of going to lower level planets to do heroics for the commendations, i personally think there should be solo modes for everything, with diminished rewards obviously, even though players will be crying and ************ and having a hissy fit over the very suggestion. I am actually holding off playing this game until early access begins on October 20th and will be rolling a fresh character and i can finally enjoy Black Talon and/or Eseless without any impatient ************ from the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margorn Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's FOUR weeks till launch of this expansion. Even if you hate the idea, you have to realize that removing it now would be the dumbest thing they could do. .... The dumbest thing would be to implement that "feature"it in the first place ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahra Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wait for it, test it, and if you still don't like it then continue asking for removal of mandatory scaling but for the moment, it's too late and would do more harm than good. I really don't need to test it to know I hate the idea. Optional is fine; I'll never use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The dumbest thing would be to implement that "feature"it in the first place ... Because nobody ever asked for a system that would allow them to help their low level friend's and not totally mess up their leveling experience, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Because nobody ever asked for a system that would allow them to help their low level friend's and not totally mess up their leveling experience, right? Not to any capacity where you would look at the metric and think, yea, that is what we should be spending our development time on. No long posts about scaling content, planets, FP or OPS. No real discussion on it on forums to the point where it would be a feature you plan to spend any real time on. IF it was a hood toggle yea. Thats a fairly big topic. A True duel spec that saves UI setups. Thats been discussed a good bit. Scaling content? I'm shocked that was even on someones radar for development especially on planets and it not be something optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septica Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Lots of good points in here that I needn't repeat. I also dislike the downscaling idea intensely. Reading the post 2 pages ago about the experiences of a press reviewer made me sigh a deep breath of relief, even though I'm rather reserved about believing in what the sister of a friend of a thrice-removed cousin says. If it makes a difference, here's my plea for BW to make it optional at best, or to not go through with it at all. It would severely dampen my enjoyment of the game. I like feeling my character grow in power, I like helping lowbies, and I like soloing old stuff for fun between current-content-ops. Please don't do this, BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverbane Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I'd like to add my two credits' worth here. Please make this new feature optional. I really enjoy to the story and dialog that goes into the cutscenes for the various FPs, OPs, etc. But, most often when I group with folks at the 'appropriate' level. I get spammed with "SPACEBAR!!!", and sometimes kicked from the group, because they don't want to watch the story. That's why I, most often, will skip FPs and go back to do then when I can solo them and enjoy them at my own pace. Please don't ruin this very enjoyable aspect of the game for me. Thanks. Edited September 21, 2015 by raverbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Ok i have been talking to a game reviewer who was invited for testing of kotfe, according to him/her :- 1. Level down is forcefully activated for testing purpose. If the feature makes into live version it will be optional. 2. They are having trouble with leveling down, for example some players are doing level 60 damage while being in a level 15 fp and vice versa. So if they can't fix these issues, we won't see level down in kotfe. 3. Leveling down in fp will only happen if we queue thorough GF, we can still manually enter as 60/65 and help our lowbie buddies. Same with open world. But if we complete fp/heroic through level down we will get extra reward. And if level down doesn't get fixed we will not see them in fp or worlds, in fp we will all be bolstered to 65 or something since bolster works as it is now(kind of). 4. They were thinking of level down on level 50, 55 and 60 SM ops but that will not happen now since they have no time to tune level down for ops too. And that is about it. So no need to fuss over it, the feature might not even make it in game. I hope you're right....I really hope you're right. Edited September 21, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 So do I, though the confusing thing about that quote is saying that the idea so scaling in FP was always going to be you scaling down, I thought I read the it would be the FP scaling to your level in terms of solo mode and that the tacticals were all being bolstered to 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Ok i have been talking to a game reviewer who was invited for testing of kotfe, according to him/her :- 1. Level down is forcefully activated for testing purpose. If the feature makes into live version it will be optional. 2. They are having trouble with leveling down, for example some players are doing level 60 damage while being in a level 15 fp and vice versa. So if they can't fix these issues, we won't see level down in kotfe. 3. Leveling down in fp will only happen if we queue thorough GF, we can still manually enter as 60/65 and help our lowbie buddies. Same with open world. But if we complete fp/heroic through level down we will get extra reward. And if level down doesn't get fixed we will not see them in fp or worlds, in fp we will all be bolstered to 65 or something since bolster works as it is now(kind of). 4. They were thinking of level down on level 50, 55 and 60 SM ops but that will not happen now since they have no time to tune level down for ops too. And that is about it. So no need to fuss over it, the feature might not even make it in game. and wonder why 1) talking about datamined information is against rules 2) closed PTS have NDAs associated with them because any thing on there is subject to change and when taken out of context people would be jumping at shadows every update and complaining when something is added/removed etc. Its not like people on here never over react to anything and everything. Look at this thread, its 1000% pure speculation based on some datamined/leaked information that nobody really has any context for and we're falling over each other to blast it and complain about it. IF (and thats a BIG IF) something gets released THEN you are free to complain, until then its out of context and pure speculation and imo shouldn't even be discussed. someone somewhere is breaking the NDAs and IMO they should be permabanned (you can get fired and SUED for breaking NDA) for doing so. anyone pointing or discussing datamined information should get a nice vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Not to any capacity where you would look at the metric and think, yea, that is what we should be spending our development time on. No long posts about scaling content, planets, FP or OPS. No real discussion on it on forums to the point where it would be a feature you plan to spend any real time on. IF it was a hood toggle yea. Thats a fairly big topic. A True duel spec that saves UI setups. Thats been discussed a good bit. Scaling content? I'm shocked that was even on someones radar for development especially on planets and it not be something optional. I guess I have been here long enough to actually remember people asking for mentoring system. And it is going to be totally optional (the toggle is off on test shard to actually test the thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) If the reports of it going to be optional are correct, then I'd see this as a massive improvement to the current game. Being able to scale down level when playing with friends would be worth getting excited over to me, but only if it's optional. I do wish they'd say something... right now either side of the story is hearsay. Edited September 21, 2015 by cyrusramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I ope you're right....I really hope you're right. Here's where my case comes in though, with all this work they've been doing, they could've easily have done 4 new Ops and FP's. It would've been easier in my view. All the Bolster to for higher-end Ops and FP's creates too many logistical problems. If i was on the Development team, i'd say "It's Suicide", not gonna happen like that. If they want to do all the Bolstering and Re-configuring Everything in Every Op and FP on just the Coding-side is a disaster waiting to happen. You would need maybe 8-12 months with a whole separate Development team for this New-Bolster-Campaign for All Ops and Fps. I never talked about how hard it can be, but lets just say, if i was working for Bioware, I would tell them we would have to Omg........................ Need all codes from every Flashhpoint and Op and Everything in THIS WHOLE GAME. I cannot explain, how impossible this would be to me. This was Not an Expansion this is/ was to be SWTOR 2. The plans were, and still are Much grander. To Re-do so much of the game the Devs want is something i'd tell the Devs to give me at least 8-12 months on, with my own Development Teams i should say. I'd say with what alot more of what was wanted for this KOTFE/ SWTOR 2 i would want 2 years with my own Development Teams with a Lot more cash-flow than that dammed EA is willing to do. For all we know we could be wrong, but but i doubt it's working as intended right now, and Bioware has Spent Way too Many Resources on this Re-scaling Project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 someone somewhere is breaking the NDAs and IMO they should be permabanned (you can get fired and SUED for breaking NDA) for doing so. anyone pointing or discussing datamined information should get a nice vacation. You should let Bioware police their own forums...last I knew, you were just a customer like everyone else posting...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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