Marauders more capable

[Raansu]

That does happen on occasion. It's more of an issue if you take predation off the fury system or don't use it at all. Back when I played this game prior to 3.2 I never had a problem with mobility. I ran carnage and would generate enough fury to pop predation again before my pred dropped off. Frenzy was a second layer used for berserk burst on priority targets or WORST case scenario popping predation again to break a double root if desperate.

 

The key is mobility. What's changed since I played last? A second pred utility which benefits Fury greatly but is a mobility loss for carnage., no health cost undying rage and a few tweaks here and there.

 

Annihilation i still meh.

 

My main point still stands. Predation usage is what separates ****** marauders from good ones. Predation = more up time for you and your team = more opportunity to generate fury stacks = extremely hard to kite = more damage for you and your team.

 

Spamming berserk = poor uptime on target = being kited out the wazoo = low damage = low mobility training dummy.

 

On occasion? lawl....

[Kyuuu]

That does happen on occasion. It's more of an issue if you take predation off the fury system or don't use it at all. Back when I played this game prior to 3.2 I never had a problem with mobility. I ran carnage and would generate enough fury to pop predation again before my pred dropped off. Frenzy was a second layer used for berserk burst on priority targets or WORST case scenario popping predation again to break a double root if desperate.

 

The key is mobility. What's changed since I played last? A second pred utility which benefits Fury greatly but is a mobility loss for carnage., no health cost undying rage and a few tweaks here and there.

 

Annihilation i still meh.

 

My main point still stands. Predation usage is what separates ****** marauders from good ones. Predation = more up time for you and your team = more opportunity to generate fury stacks = extremely hard to kite = more damage for you and your team.

 

Spamming berserk = poor uptime on target = being kited out the wazoo = low damage = low mobility training dummy.

 

 

Just dont know what to say this....

 

Carnage got screwed by the last change by taking our 15% moment speed and putting into utility most never took, forcing us to drop utility to get it back. splitting up the and removing Defensive Forms splitting the effect up and added another utility did us no good. further making things worse the spec. Making all the defensive forms effect passive for all mauaraders would fix thing for the better. but they didnt want to listen to what everyone was telling them.

 

I pretty sure The cleanse on force camo (made in to utility) , brooding (made in to utility) the 15% movement speed defensive forms (made in to utility) and 15% faster predation (made in to utility) where all ripped from carnage

all the other effects of Defensive forms went to defensive roll, which almost all take. Carnage was screwed by 3.0 and keep getting worse.

 

Gore has 3sec up time and deadly saber has 6sec up time? both carnage and anni are easliy shut down in pvp un like fury.

 

With the soon to be added 3 more utilities from 4.0 it gona be made worse we either use that extra point to get back what they took or take new utility and still have same problem.

 

Predation is useless being on no CD and have it movement cleanse so long as we can get root 1 sec after poping it.

 

Solution give the mobility and cleanse that carnage had before 3.0 to all marauders as passive. and we will stop complain about have to choose from mobility and dps and take the 15% movement speed out of phantom utility and put in defensive roll where all the other defensive form effect went. And make brazen passive. mauarder utlity tree isnt so screwed up

 

Carnage is the one spec out all of them got burnt the most by 3.0 and still is as far mobility goes. and gave nothing back to it

Edited August 28, 2015 by Kyuuu

[jedcjedcjedc]

Eh, I still have an aversion to Fury from the great smash wars of 2.whatever version that was where they were getting 20-30k damage in a single move that buffed their next 4 or so attacks. Anyone else think it's funny that after all that, Vengeance is the spec with the upgraded smash? I have fun on Vengeance and Carnage, though I do agree not being able to really land gore windows kind of hurts.

[khsolo]

I. They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams.....

 

Dude...

[Icykill_]

I can see the argument as to why the other 2 builds aren't as viable as fury... But it's nearly always been this way with all classes... There has always been a preferred or better build for pvp since launch... Example - Sorc dps was always madness due to the low mobility of lightning... 3.0, they make lightning mobile and Nerf Madness... So people switch builds... It's the same with Sins... Pre 3.0 most played deception... After 3.0 everyone switched to hatred (until they made the nerfs and gave deception a sabre throw)... Of course there are exceptions to there being a preferred pvp build...

Currently Fury is the most viable build for Maras in pvp... The devs have made it this way... It is a shame that Carnage isn't more viable as I used to like this build... But it is what it is...

My analysis is solely based on my experience with Fury... No other build... But I can confidently recommend it as a viable spec in pvp

[jedcjedcjedc]

I can see the argument as to why the other 2 builds aren't as viable as fury... But it's nearly always been this way with all classes... There has always been a preferred or better build for pvp since launch... Example - Sorc dps was always madness due to the low mobility of lightning... 3.0, they make lightning mobile and Nerf Madness... So people switch builds... It's the same with Sins... Pre 3.0 most played deception... After 3.0 everyone switched to hatred (until they made the nerfs and gave deception a sabre throw)... Of course there are exceptions to there being a preferred pvp build...

Currently Fury is the most viable build for Maras in pvp... The devs have made it this way... It is a shame that Carnage isn't more viable as I used to like this build... But it is what it is...

My analysis is solely based on my experience with Fury... No other build... But I can confidently recommend it as a viable spec in pvp

 

Actually, you have the example backwards, but your point is still viable. Madness was cleanseable fluff damage, Lightning was the DPS turret similar to MM Sniper or Arsenal Merc.

[Icykill_]

Actually, you have the example backwards, but your point is still viable. Madness was cleanseable fluff damage, Lightning was the DPS turret similar to MM Sniper or Arsenal Merc.

 

I was generalising... Especially the part about most Sorc pvpers using madness over lightning due to mobility pre 3.0... So I'm not sure how that was backwards...

Edited August 28, 2015 by Icykill_

[James_Mcturney]

The only change i would like to see that I think is warranted is for marauders and sentinels is to be able to use guarded

By the force whilst stunned.

 

that is a start, a shame that focused defense is like 10000x better than guarded by the force...

bioware pls can i has focused defense? =////// you can has my guarded by the force i even pay you to take it.

[rasputko]

From the mouth of someone who isn't competent enough to even play a Mara... Scoundrels are one of the easiest classes to play... And take much less skill to play than Maras... Scoundrels have self heal, more stuns and can stealth escape at will... Your main attacks are from stealth and behind... If you weren't doing well, then there would be something wrong...

But I've yet to see any scoundrel/Operative pre 60 beat me in DPS on my Mara... Even you admit it that the class is a challenge to play... Hence takes more skill...

I'm not advocating that the newest pvper roll a Mara... What I am saying is that the class does not deserve the bad wrap it's been getting... They are extremely good in the hands of a skilled player and competent players do well too...

 

Basically if you want to have fun and want a challenge... Play a Mara and become a wreaking ball..

 

FYI... Nerf Operatives and Scoundrels

 

I have all classes with valor 80 or above. My main in 3.0 are mara and sent. They were valor 60 before 3.0, now my mara is 98 and sent 80 so I would say i have more experience than you in current meta.

If you're beating an oper/scoundrel in any way in regular WZ's that's because they are bad/inexperienced players.

Yet again you're misleading new players with misinformation........

Scoundrel dps is not an easy class to master; using roll at the wrong time and you'll get wrecked by any class.

To know when to roll you have to have excellent knowledge about all dps specs.

No other dps spec is so dependent on knowing other classes while using defensive CD's.

Yes, scoundrel is together with sage and PT the strongest class for regs atm and class stacking of those

hurts the most but it's also the hardest class to master.

As I said you can go very far with an scoundrel/operative, it has a high ceiling...while mara is challenging to play, the ceiling is much much lower.

...again; I'm talking about regular WZ's here

[Jboath]

The thing with sent/mara is you have to use EVERYTHING available to you, whereas the fotm(or 8 months at this point) is they can stick to 10 skills or less and still beat you.

 

I mean, the stats on people playing sorc/sages is through the roof, and you're giving them phase walk. And they can move while barrier now in kotfe?

 

C'mon, you're giving sent/mara a cc immunity on a 2:30 cooldown and they still can't move while blade DANCING.

 

This **** is getting hilarious.

[jedcjedcjedc]

I was generalising... Especially the part about most Sorc pvpers using madness over lightning due to mobility pre 3.0... So I'm not sure how that was backwards...

 

Just that it was Lightning over madness for a long while there until they changed cleanse mechanics with purge, and then just made things uncleanseable. When your rotation could be removed with one button, the spec was kind of neutered.

[James_Mcturney]

The thing with sent/mara is you have to use EVERYTHING available to you, whereas the fotm(or 8 months at this point) is they can stick to 10 skills or less and still beat you.

 

I mean, the stats on people playing sorc/sages is through the roof, and you're giving them phase walk. And they can move while barrier now in kotfe?

 

C'mon, you're giving sent/mara a cc immunity on a 2:30 cooldown and they still can't move while blade DANCING.

 

This **** is getting hilarious.

 

I've checked the 4.0 stuff but i didn't see anything saying cc immune and cooldown, where is that (maybe you have a better website?)? also sentinel has cc immunity 6/30 secs, or 1/5 of the time if used correctly, on fury only... should have on every spec.

[Icykill_]

Just that it was Lightning over madness for a long while there until they changed cleanse mechanics with purge, and then just made things uncleanseable. When your rotation could be removed with one button, the spec was kind of neutered.

 

Was that way back before 2.0?... Guess I was always a Madness fan since launch... I only ever knew other Sorcs that played madness and only occasionally saw Lightning... Might have been a server thing maybe?

[Icykill_]

I have all classes with valor 80 or above. My main in 3.0 are mara and sent. They were valor 60 before 3.0, now my mara is 98 and sent 80 so I would say i have more experience than you in current meta.

If you're beating an oper/scoundrel in any way in regular WZ's that's because they are bad/inexperienced players.

Yet again you're misleading new players with misinformation........

Scoundrel dps is not an easy class to master; using roll at the wrong time and you'll get wrecked by any class.

To know when to roll you have to have excellent knowledge about all dps specs.

No other dps spec is so dependent on knowing other classes while using defensive CD's.

Yes, scoundrel is together with sage and PT the strongest class for regs atm and class stacking of those

hurts the most but it's also the hardest class to master.

As I said you can go very far with an scoundrel/operative, it has a high ceiling...while mara is challenging to play, the ceiling is much much lower.

...again; I'm talking about regular WZ's here

 

Like I said if you bothered to read what I wrote... I'm not advocating that brand new players use a Mara in pvp... I am saying that they are more capable than people say and definitely viable in the hands of competent players...

As for Operatives/Scoundrels.. You have to be joking... They are in the top 3 of the easiest class to play in pvp and certainly one of the most survivable... Only Sins and Sorcs are more survivable...

You don't need to have the highest Valor to know your class or other classes you play... While having other classes will make it easier to play any class... You certainly don't need it to know when to roll on an Operative... LoL... They are by no means harder to master than any other class and much easier than some... Like the Mara... Why do you think people roll FOTM classes?... Because they are easier to play or are perceived OP... Which again means people play the class it is "easist" to win with... From your own admission, Operatives are one of the best classes in regs...

While I will acknowledge you have high Valor on your Mara, most of that was obtained before 3.0... My lvl 60 Mara has 76 Valor which was all obtained before 3.0... I'm also not saying that Maras will always beat Operatives... It doesn't matter what the class... It's always skill vs skill... What I did say was if you weren't doing well on an operative then you were doing something wrong...

Maras require a lot more skill to play than Operatives at the moment because of survivability issues (which are starting to be addressed)... You also need to use just about every ability in a combat senerior and must time everything exactly... Other classes are much more forgiving... Especially Operatives...

The thread was to point out that Maras aren't the worst class to play in pvp... They are fun and definitely viable...

So I'm not sure how I am misleading anyone... If anything you are a bit confused about operatives...

Lastly... LOL about PTs... They certainly aren't the hardest to master.. Not even close... But that was my experience...

I'm not sure how many classes you have or their Valor, frankly I don't care... My opinion is based on the fact that I have lvld every class in pvp to 60... Most of my classes are at or very close to 100 Valor (which by the way, I don't consider makes anyone a good player)... I rarely do any pvp except to get the class quests done and they are always greyed out... I have atleast 2 of every class in multiple builds... I'm certainly not the very best on each class... But I'm certainly better than a large percentage of players and have logged about 9,000 hours of pvp in this game... Maybe more...

I would say if anyone is misleading people it is yourself...

[Jboath]

I've checked the 4.0 stuff but i didn't see anything saying cc immune and cooldown, where is that (maybe you have a better website?)? also sentinel has cc immunity 6/30 secs, or 1/5 of the time if used correctly, on fury only... should have on every spec.

 

theyre giving a cc immunity on saber ward, i forget if its a utility point or not

 

yeah i played combat forever, now have gone to concentration and the difference in pvp is HUGE

[rasputko]

Like I said if you bothered to read what I wrote... I'm not advocating that brand new players use a Mara in pvp... I am saying that they are more capable than people say and definitely viable in the hands of competent players...

As for Operatives/Scoundrels.. You have to be joking... They are in the top 3 of the easiest class to play in pvp and certainly one of the most survivable... Only Sins and Sorcs are more survivable...

You don't need to have the highest Valor to know your class or other classes you play... While having other classes will make it easier to play any class... You certainly don't need it to know when to roll on an Operative... LoL... They are by no means harder to master than any other class and much easier than some... Like the Mara... Why do you think people roll FOTM classes?... Because they are easier to play or are perceived OP... Which again means people play the class it is "easist" to win with... From your own admission, Operatives are one of the best classes in regs...

While I will acknowledge you have high Valor on your Mara, most of that was obtained before 3.0... My lvl 60 Mara has 76 Valor which was all obtained before 3.0... I'm also not saying that Maras will always beat Operatives... It doesn't matter what the class... It's always skill vs skill... What I did say was if you weren't doing well on an operative then you were doing something wrong...

Maras require a lot more skill to play than Operatives at the moment because of survivability issues (which are starting to be addressed)... You also need to use just about every ability in a combat senerior and must time everything exactly... Other classes are much more forgiving... Especially Operatives...

The thread was to point out that Maras aren't the worst class to play in pvp... They are fun and definitely viable...

So I'm not sure how I am misleading anyone... If anything you are a bit confused about operatives...

Lastly... LOL about PTs... They certainly aren't the hardest to master.. Not even close... But that was my experience...

I'm not sure how many classes you have or their Valor, frankly I don't care... My opinion is based on the fact that I have lvld every class in pvp to 60... Most of my classes are at or very close to 100 Valor (which by the way, I don't consider makes anyone a good player)... I rarely do any pvp except to get the class quests done and they are always greyed out... I have atleast 2 of every class in multiple builds... I'm certainly not the very best on each class... But I'm certainly better than a large percentage of players and have logged about 9,000 hours of pvp in this game... Maybe more...

I would say if anyone is misleading people it is yourself...

 

Icykill:

"They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams...

... So I get to mids (lvl 30) and start smashing lvl 59s with ease..."

 

It only takes to look at these two statements from your original post to confirm that you're misleading new players.

I see you won't stop there and are going even further with your nonsense....trying to reason with you is futile.

 

I mean I don't even know where to start so I'll just highlight your latest "best jokes" :

 

....."You certainly don't need it to know when to roll on an Operative... LoL" ...

......"I'm also not saying that Maras will always beat Operatives"......

...." It doesn't matter what the class... It's always skill vs skill"....

 

Hey, but maybe I'm just an assh..... who likes to contradict people on internet.

Why don't you show me/us a few videos where your lvl30 marauder smashes lvl59 with ease as you say......

....or your nearly unstoppable game play where you single handedly decimate the entire team...

...could you be a darling a post a few?

 

 

P.S. I agree with you on one thing; operative concealment roll could be "nerfed" a bit for regular WZ but I would

be very careful with that and add another defensive CD right away it that was the case...

....maybe the "immunity to everything" should end when the roll ends and not last 0,5 seconds longer?

....but then again, concealment is still not good enough for ranked so it's not an easy solution IMO

 

P.P.S. IMO it takes a lot more to get from valor 60 to 98 than from 0-60. But who am I to contradict

mighty Icykill? ..as you said I'm not even competent enough to play a mara

Edited September 11, 2015 by rasputko

[foxmob]

actually i am going to level a mara soon and thinking to roll fury , since many people said carnage to squishy without healer. So yeah i am a masochist

 

carny is better, but fury is easier and still effective (at least in regs). any mara can be rock/paper/scissored pretty easily (some classes require a high level of skill before class balance becomes a deciding factor -- sins come to mind).

 

edit: wow. I just replied to a 2 months old post. d'oh!

Edited September 11, 2015 by foxmob

[SVTCarnage]

Carnage requires speed with a keyboard or a mouse if a razor naga is your thing. It requires maximizing your damage and like a fire mage in WoW their is not a lot of room for error, but the class is really good.

 

Some players mindsets in games is what's easier is better. So a Marauder, especially Carnage isn't any good.

Edited September 11, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[alexsamma]

Carnage requires speed with a keyboard or a mouse if a razor naga is your thing. It requires maximizing your damage and like a fire mage in WoW their is not a lot of room for error, but the class is really good.

 

Some players mindsets in games is what's easier is better. So a Marauder, especially Carnage isn't any good.

 

Carnage is fairly easy to counter because it has no additional anti-cc/root (fury has 2nd leap and cc immunity on crush, anni is a dot spec and has a super low cd on leap).

 

Carnage isn't really hard to play, the spec is extremely simple-minded, but in the 3.0 super speed + everyone has a root breaker/million counter roots it can be challenging to actually land meaningful damage as carnage.

Edited September 11, 2015 by alexsamma

[Icykill_]

Icykill:

"They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams...

... So I get to mids (lvl 30) and start smashing lvl 59s with ease..."

 

It only takes to look at these two statements from your original post to confirm that you're misleading new players.

I see you won't stop there and are going even further with your nonsense....trying to reason with you is futile.

 

I mean I don't even know where to start so I'll just highlight your latest "best jokes" :

 

....."You certainly don't need it to know when to roll on an Operative... LoL" ...

......"I'm also not saying that Maras will always beat Operatives"......

...." It doesn't matter what the class... It's always skill vs skill"....

 

Hey, but maybe I'm just an assh..... who likes to contradict people on internet.

Why don't you show me/us a few videos where your lvl30 marauder smashes lvl59 with ease as you say......

....or your nearly unstoppable game play where you single handedly decimate the entire team...

...could you be a darling a post a few?

 

 

P.S. I agree with you on one thing; operative concealment roll could be "nerfed" a bit for regular WZ but I would

be very careful with that and add another defensive CD right away it that was the case...

....maybe the "immunity to everything" should end when the roll ends and not last 0,5 seconds longer?

....but then again, concealment is still not good enough for ranked so it's not an easy solution IMO

 

P.P.S. IMO it takes a lot more to get from valor 60 to 98 than from 0-60. But who am I to contradict

mighty Icykill? ..as you said I'm not even competent enough to play a mara

 

LoL... Continue with your rubbishing of me... Keep misquoting me out of context... It just shows you don't know what you are talking about and that yes, you are one of those people as you put it that "Hey, but maybe I'm just an assh..... who likes to contradict people on internet. "

I especially like the misquote where you think skill vs skill is a joke... Really... LMAO... That alone shows you have no idea... It's always skill vs skill first... Not class vs class... Why you would think that's a joke is mind boggling.. I'd love hear your reason behind that

[Icykill_]

I'm seeing tonnes of Maras in mids at the moment, I see at least one Mara per match... Looks like a lot of people are starting to come to the conclusion that Maras are definitely viable... Most, not all are doing exceptionally well... at 60s the Mara population is also increasing..

[Raansu]

I'm seeing tonnes of Maras in mids at the moment, I see at least one Mara per match... Looks like a lot of people are starting to come to the conclusion that Maras are definitely viable... Most, not all are doing exceptionally well... at 60s the Mara population is also increasing..

 

I see tons of mercs in midbies.....Doesn't change the fact they are still mediocre. Seeing a bunch of people playing a class isnt indicative of anything, especially in midbies.

[Icykill_]

I see tons of mercs in midbies.....Doesn't change the fact they are still mediocre. Seeing a bunch of people playing a class isnt indicative of anything, especially in midbies.

 

Why misquote out of context... I also said that most are doing really well... And mediocre isn't that bad for mids... If they were doing badly I would say it was a problem... But that's not what my point was... It was that more people are playing the class and most that I see are doing well...

Sure there are quite a few mercs as well as other classes... Not sure what the point was?

My statement was "that lots of people seems to be lvling Maras now"... They didn't before because they had such a bad rep... That perception seems to have changed... Perceptions usually only change if people see that a class is playable and does well...

Mercs have always been popular in mids and did ok, not so much now... But I guess people are still trying

[SVTCarnage]

My main point still stands. Predation usage is what separates ****** marauders from good ones. Predation = more up time for you and your team = more opportunity to generate fury stacks = extremely hard to kite = more damage for you and your team.

 

Spamming berserk = poor uptime on target = being kited out the wazoo = low damage = low mobility training dummy.

 

You have some points, but you make it sound like Berserk is useless. Your leaning too far to one side of things, in my opinion. From a team stand point sure, ill back ya on the Predation, but you should only maybe pop Predation one time during a ranked arena. If we are talking about a warzone, then Bloodthirst > Predation.

 

Depends on the team, if your one of the only melee classes in your ranked team or solo q team then your not upping the damage with Predation. You can forget using Ravage outside of Berserk vs what I would consider a good player 8/10, what unless they are stunned? Ok, sure if Gore and Devestating Blast are on cd, and their stunned, Ravage away.

 

Berserk > Massacre > Gore > Ravage > Devastating Blast. Edit: If we are talking Carnage anyway of course.

 

And with the 4.0 changes, your really wanting to Ravage as Carnage, so something to think about. Other then that, yea I agree with what your saying as a whole, so don't get me wrong. You pop predation at some point in the arena or warzone and yes your helping the team. Just don't lean so far over to one side with the point your making, Berserk has its place, at least for Carnage, definitely.

 

Carnage isn't really hard to play, the spec is extremely simple-minded, but in the 3.0 super speed + everyone has a root breaker/million counter roots it can be challenging to actually land meaningful damage as carnage.

 

If your saying Carnage is a extremely simple-minded spec, what do you think about the rest of the classes and specs in Swtor, just curious in comparison?

Edited September 12, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[Raansu]

Why misquote out of context... I also said that most are doing really well... And mediocre isn't that bad for mids... If they were doing badly I would say it was a problem... But that's not what my point was... It was that more people are playing the class and most that I see are doing well...

Sure there are quite a few mercs as well as other classes... Not sure what the point was?

My statement was "that lots of people seems to be lvling Maras now"... They didn't before because they had such a bad rep... That perception seems to have changed... Perceptions usually only change if people see that a class is playable and does well...

Mercs have always been popular in mids and did ok, not so much now... But I guess people are still trying

 

The class is mediocre not the player. Goes back to my last point, a bunch of people playing said class in midbies is not an indication of anything, especially since A LOT of people play marauders just because it holds two sabers. It has nothing to do with the class suddenly being viable (it isnt, its still trash.)