Selenial Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) The black holes did their moving.... as far as I know which is how we know they are as heavy as they are. Also if it was as small as you guys want to suggest... well.... he moved something bigger with 0 exhaustion, and very little effort so.... nope.... Small =/= light :/ See here's the thing. Kyp's got numerous Telekinesis feats that place him on a tier. It's not a high tier, it's not a low tier. He's more powerful than a Ventress, though a worse duelist so probably even overall. The telekinesis feats he has are not good enough to suggest he's better than Krayt or Wyyrlok. In an attempt to prove that he is, you're turning to a completely ambiguous and debatable feat. There's so many leaps in logic it's actually unreal. You don't know if he moved the basal or the actual singularity. You don't know how heavy the stuff that he moved was. You don't know anything at all about the size of the singularity. You don't know he wasn't experiencing a moment of oneness or unity. You don't know anything about the feat at all. And you're pushing every single variable to the extreme, to **** Kyp as much as humanly possible, to get him in the highest tiers of power possible in your mind and saying anyone (read: everyone) who disagrees with you is biased, wrong, and just hates you? You expect this to convince people? You think insulting Aurbere or Zoltan will get their actually viable and plausible arguments to disappear? This is why I have problems debating you. This is why I among with almost everyone else was hoping to God that I didn't have to face you. It's not because you're good, It's not because you challenge our rankings of characters and make us think about other eras. It's because you're the singularly most Biased debater on these forums, and you refuse to back down. I have hated every moment of this thread. Oh, and for the record? Krayt drains your entire team because all of them put together don't compare to Abeloth or Luke. Oh, you thought you were the only one with hilariously vague and unexplored feats? Edited August 14, 2015 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Well you don't sugarcoat it Edited August 14, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Uhm... So getting back on track Why does this even matter? Kyp was utterly destroyed by that attempt. Indicative of power? Ok, I guess. Indicative of what he can pull off in combat? Not even remotely. Just because he can move a Basal with immense energy doesn't mean he can move 4 Starfighters with ease, it doesn't work like that. He doesn't have the opportunity to move **** around like that in combat. Starkiller destroyed a frigate, well above anything Vader ever did. But does that make him vastly superior in combat? Nope. Dooku lifted about 10x the amount of Rock that Yoda ever has. Yoda had trouble with his, Dooku didn't. Does that mean Dooku's stronger? Hell *********** no.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sel honestly should have brought that up earlier. Good thing I'm here to give her hints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Team Selenial vs Team Tunewalker Darth Krayt, Darth Wyyrlok III & Darth Talon vs Kyp Durron, Streen, Leia Organa Solo & K'Kruht Why did I only notice this just now? It's K'Kruhk, Beni, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Why did I only notice this just now? Probably because I only just told you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Small =/= light :/ See here's the thing. Kyp's got numerous Telekinesis feats that place him on a tier. It's not a high tier, it's not a low tier. He's more powerful than a Ventress, though a worse duelist so probably even overall. The telekinesis feats he has are not good enough to suggest he's better than Krayt or Wyyrlok. In an attempt to prove that he is, you're turning to a completely ambiguous and debatable feat. There's so many leaps in logic it's actually unreal. You don't know if he moved the basal or the actual singularity. You don't know how heavy the stuff that he moved was. You don't know anything at all about the size of the singularity. You don't know he wasn't experiencing a moment of oneness or unity. You don't know anything about the feat at all. And you're pushing every single variable to the extreme, to **** Kyp as much as humanly possible, to get him in the highest tiers of power possible in your mind and saying anyone (read: everyone) who disagrees with you is biased, wrong, and just hates you? You expect this to convince people? You think insulting Aurbere or Zoltan will get their actually viable and plausible arguments to disappear? This is why I have problems debating you. This is why I among with almost everyone else was hoping to God that I didn't have to face you. It's not because you're good, It's not because you challenge our rankings of characters and make us think about other eras. It's because you're the singularly most Biased debater on these forums, and you refuse to back down. I have hated every moment of this thread. Oh, and for the record? Krayt drains your entire team because all of them put together don't compare to Abeloth or Luke. Oh, you thought you were the only one with hilariously vague and unexplored feats? I knew that one... First its abeloth and Luke and they were facing each other, they werent payint attention to Krayt. I hate, I hate, I HATE power flexing, because its so full of BS like the above. WE KNOW he moved the singularity, it states so in the quote. We KNOW that the singularities create a gravitational force enough to move objects like fighters at High speeds, or large ships... which is indicative of size (gravity is corolated to mass) We KNOW the feat happened. I have no reason to suspect that he experienced a feat of oneness. So for "the rest" let me see if I can get us back on track instead of all this whining. Remember that quote about his potential that you didnt like... Back on the Rebel base on Coruscant, Luke Skywalker tested Kyp's Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest presence he had known since his Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda. Source: The Essential Guide to Characters Fun fact I dont like to use potential of a character. This is a gross understatement of his potential because when Luke measured it he was knocked flat on his rear several feat back. When Leia tested Luke nothing close to this happened, when Luke tested Leia also didnt happen. Yes it suggests that Kyp has more potential then luke... I didnt write it, I dont like it either... but it happened. The reason I linked the above quote initially is because that was more indicative of the power Kyp showed. Kyp proved almost immediately to be the greatest of the apprentices gathered there. With only a minimum of training, he blasted on past all of us in terms of what he could do. Supporting himself on one hand only, he could balance rocks and fallen tree boles with ease. Given my lack of ability in that area, I found his skills somewhat intimidating. Master Skywalker found Kyp's abilities all but mesmerizing and devoted a lot of time to directing his studies. Source: I, Jedi This is showing him preforming those ESB Luke- RotJ Luke and Vader level power and abilities that I was talking about basically meaning he is capable of this http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/3914929-9082178269-33627.jpg pretty easily, remember that he isnt as fit as Luke was while doing these hand stands. You said Kyp couldnt beat a group of Jedi or Sith the way Krayt did. Which is also not true. First speed blitzing is a show of power not skill. See Palpatine vs Fisto. Second Jaina (who hasnt beaten Kyp) was able to speed blitz 3 Sith (there was a 4th one there but Ben was taking care of it) in the same time Ben beat 1. Kyp is closer to Jaina then he is Ben, and She likely could have taken all 4 at the same time, probably even more had they been there. Next Darth Caedus. When they suggested Kyp go after him, to my knowledge, they werent sending him with any back up either. So that kind of throws out the window any argument of "he didnt accompany her cus he wasnt strong enough" no he didnt accompany her because the plan was always just send the 1. Second (again to my knowledge) the only reason they sent her instead of him wasnt because she was better or more powerful, but because she was close enough to Kyp in power, and being Caedus's sister they thought it might mess with his head and cause him to delay or hold back a little. If they sent Kyp along with, then the whole point of getting to hold back and not pay attention to the rest would have been kind of pointless. You made a comparison between Kyp and Gaalan, with Luke in his prime, but Luke at his best of course beats every one so that's not a fair comparison. Kyp is more powerful then Kyle, and just as skilled and Kyle himself has killed scores of Sith and Dark Jedi in the Jedi Knight Trilogy of games. Which as you stated already the Imperial knights might be more militaristic, but they are just as powerful, and as speed blitzing them is an indication of power and not skills then this is just as indicative of that power and skill. everything you have said about Kyp is purely wrong. its not my fault I didnt write him, but there is nothing wrong with using his feats and accolades to get him the credit he is due. You guys call ME bias when i actually take the time to give credit where its due... I SAID Krayt beats Kyp in combative Force displays, I actually have the gumption to give a character credit in areas he deserves it in, but you are doing what... he is better in every way.... not wanting to admit any kind of weakness... And I am bias???, call ME out for undercutting a character like Jadus who's feat is more ambigious, then turn around and try to do the same thing to another Character... and I am bias. Ok... I will work on it, if every one else wants to join me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Probably because I only just told you Shh... No one's suppose to know. I figured it out on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Uhm... So getting back on track Why does this even matter? Kyp was utterly destroyed by that attempt. Indicative of power? Ok, I guess. Indicative of what he can pull off in combat? Not even remotely. Just because he can move a Basal with immense energy doesn't mean he can move 4 Starfighters with ease, it doesn't work like that. He doesn't have the opportunity to move **** around like that in combat. Starkiller destroyed a frigate, well above anything Vader ever did. But does that make him vastly superior in combat? Nope. Dooku lifted about 10x the amount of Rock that Yoda ever has. Yoda had trouble with his, Dooku didn't. Does that mean Dooku's stronger? Hell *********** no.... Thank god for this..... so we can get back to where we actually analyze character strengths and weaknesses and get away from all this BS Force power measuring, right? Edited August 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Thank god for this..... so we can get back to where we actually analyze character strengths and weaknesses and get away from all this BS Force power measuring, right? Wow, moving the goalposts or what? Here, let me quote you. "No one in this tournament out TK's Kyp" In regards to me saying Krayt has far better combative applications of Telekinesis. So I say your ridiculous feat isn't even remotely applicable... and you pretend like that's what you were trying to prove all along? You do continue to entertain, if nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I feel like this is turning into a Ant vs LK thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Wow, moving the goalposts or what? Here, let me quote you. "No one in this tournament out TK's Kyp" In regards to me saying Krayt has far better combative applications of Telekinesis. So I say your ridiculous feat isn't even remotely applicable... and you pretend like that's what you were trying to prove all along? You do continue to entertain, if nothing more. No he doesnt have better combat applications of TK. Kyp has shown precise TK abilities as well as the big one, such as throwing tiny bolts at missile speeds and redirecting them to hurling Freighters, and creating new TK combat techniques on the fly, In combat, this whole argument was for that whole "Krayt is so much more powerful it wont matter" BS that you tried to pull in your first Kyp vs Krayt post. Good on you. But the TK combat applications of the 2 Force users in question in this arena is not enough to be a deciding factor in force power battle, which is why Krayt wins that area because he has a second area of expertise he can draw on with Force Lightning. Which reminds me... "he cant deflect firepower of that magnitude" Kyp, the kid of a Jedi, was standing alone in the middle of the docking bay. Lase rfire poured from the Rook's forward guns. And like some weird children's toy, Kyp caught the green killing bolts on his lightsaber and tossed them away. 720 frieghter, its lasers do more damage then the lightning, he can totally deflect firepower of that magnitude. Edited August 15, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I feel like this is turning into a Ant vs LK thread. http://kaleenaskaleidoscope.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/are-you-not-entertained-w-text-720x396.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 No he doesnt have better combat applications of TK. Kyp has shown precise TK abilities as well as the big one, such as throwing tiny bolts at missile speeds and redirecting them to hurling Freighters. In combat, this whole argument was for that whole "Krayt is so much more powerful it wont matter" BS that you tried to pull in your first Kyp vs Krayt post. Good on you. But the TK combat applications of the 2 Force users in question in this arena is not enough to be a deciding factor in force power battle, which is why Krayt wins that area because he has a second area of expertise he can draw on with Force Lightning. I'll get to the rest of this tomorrow, but Krayt is still far more powerful than Kyp, rofl. I find it funny that the guy who constantly says "You can't measure force power by who can throw the biggest rock" is now measuring it by "who can move the biggest stuff" You are so hilariously biased that it's getting to the point where I think you're just a brilliant Troll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 720 frieghter, its lasers do more damage then the lightning, he can totally deflect firepower of that magnitude. Deflecting from a Lightsaber is not Tutaminis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) I'll get to the rest of this tomorrow, but Krayt is still far more powerful than Kyp, rofl. I find it funny that the guy who constantly says "You can't measure force power by who can throw the biggest rock" is now measuring it by "who can move the biggest stuff" You are so hilariously biased that it's getting to the point where I think you're just a brilliant Troll... Hey if everyone else is going to use that stick, might as well abuse the crap out of it... but again if you read the higher up, you would see I wasnt leaning on just that, but it is indicative of his power, and no krayt is not.... please dont be that stupid, I want to move on to other things and not turn this into a Krayt vs Kyp power measuring thread. Edited August 15, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Deflecting from a Lightsaber is not Tutaminis. doesnt need tutaminis.. he has a lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 http://kaleenaskaleidoscope.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/are-you-not-entertained-w-text-720x396.jpg Meh, not really. I prefer fleet chat. If the whole debate is like this then actually voting is going to be really hard. (And not in a good way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) doesnt need tutaminis.. he has a lightsaber. And I specifically said if he was caught without his blade ready to deflect it. Edited August 15, 2015 by CommunityDroidEU rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Hey if everyone else is going to use that stick, might as well abuse the crap out of it... but again if you read the higher up, you would see I wasnt leaning on just that, but it is indicative of his power, and no krayt is not.... please dont be that stupid, I want to move on to other things and not turn this into a Krayt vs Kyp power measuring thread. "concede because reasons" Tunewalker, everybody. Messiah and Saviour of the Swtor forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Meh, not really. I prefer fleet chat. If the whole debate is like this then actually voting is going to be really hard. (And not in a good way). I guess I will just leave. Edited August 15, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Edit: **** it I'm done here Edited August 15, 2015 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Meh, not really. I prefer fleet chat. If the whole debate is like this then actually voting is going to be really hard. (And not in a good way). Do what I do when threads get like this just don't vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Meh, not really. I prefer fleet chat. If the whole debate is like this then actually voting is going to be really hard. (And not in a good way). Nothing a few* beers won't solve. *Few = 7+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Ok so I think the best way to keep this half way civil, is if I just ignore my opponent. Its the only way things will get done.... Teamwork Synergy. Even if my team can not use Force Melds they are still well syngerized with one another. Luke heard snap-hisses as the other Masters lit their weapons. This friendly exercise would be horribly dangerous to anyone but a Jedi Master, but all of those present were so in tune with the Force and one another that the odds of a mishap were, as usual, almost nil. They ahve worked together in the past, and will be more then capable of doing so again. Of course the One Sith are just like this as well, they were made to serve Krayt, and they will do their jobs well. For this reason in Synergy I am calling them equals this fight will look much like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7FPD49g_Rs 3:00 which will be pretty awesome honestly. Offensive/defensive Synergy advantages Offensively both teams will take advantage of any time the other team has any fault or opening. They will be overall quite ruthless with one another. Defensively however is where my team will take the edge Wyylrock and Krayt's fued is kind of famous by this point. While Wyylrock will most assuredly not turn on Krayt, nor will he leave him exposed if that means he think he will lose with out him, if he thinks he can win with out him he will let Krayt fall, which could allow my team a come back that they dont deserve... thus giving my team a very small edge. Ability Synergy As i have stated before, its not just about how well a team knows each other, but also about what each member can bring to the table. This is again where I think my team takes an edge (of course I do every one just thought) Krayt trained both of the members on his team, and as far as I can tell they both use similar styles to one another. K'kruhk and Leia are on polar opposites of the spectrum but still able to synergize. What this means for my team is that they are able to swap opponents and still stay with the rhythm the opponent is going on, while their opponent will have to readjust and relearn the rhythm every time this happens allowing the 2 to slowly gain an edge over their opponents. Further its also ironic that Sel's teams force powers are also very similar to one another just to a varying degree (IE one is stronger then the other which is stronger then the other) meaning once again i do not believe they cover any of each others weaknesses. While my team has Leia then Streen as the best TP people, Kyp, Leia as the best TK people. Streen and Kyp as the best AE people. They have different strengths that they can play on to cover each others weaknesses and take advantage of their strengths. Thus keeping the enemy team off balanced. for some added fun to the argument Streen AKA the trump card. I am reluctant to play this card, because I am fearful of more forum wrath for daring a character is capable of things that they have done, but here goes. We all know that these characters have all used Wave based Force techniques to gain distance and disengage from an opponent. We also know that it is very common for this to happen multiple times in a multi on multi fight. + others. Once this happens is when the card gets played. Streen is capable of creating Hurricanes in doors, and has done so in the past. The winds created by these storms are more then enough to lift and fling everything in this hangar, and enough to blow the enemy team out the air lock. While the enemy team is more then capable of rooting themselves in the force when they do so they risk getting hit by the dozens of Fighters, Nails, Fuel Cells and everything else in this hangar. While they ahve enough TK to Root themselves and maybe deflect a couple with the assistance of Kyp, Leia, and K'kruhk increasing the accuracy of this attack to send things at them, they will not be able to deflect everythign coming their way. The winds created by AE are not limited in the same way a TK attack is, the Wielder isnt picking up the stuff he is just moving hte winds and the winds are doing the rest. So there are 3 ways this turns deadly. 1. Pushed out the air lock when trying to dodge, 2. Winds pick up enough debris that one of the smaller pieces gets missed and punchers somebodies brain or heart or what have you, 3. Assistance from Streens team mates to cause more debris to be more accurate overwhelms the defenses of the enemy team. Let the rage begin. They shot toward the roof of the grand audience chamber, toward the widest skylight, where jagged icicles hung like javelins. Leia suddenly knew what Streen intended to do to them, whether consciously or unconsciously. They would be sucked out of the Great Temple, tossed high into the sky, and then allowed to crash thousands of feet to the spear-pointed branches of the jungle canopy. Edited August 15, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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