The Operative roll!!!

[Hiro_Wildfire]

Blimey... You'd think that from the amount of people complaining there's around 4-6 operatives in every warzone, all on concealment, all rolling and resisting all to most damage in that tiny immunity window.

 

I know #NerfOperatives was a thing, but this is.. nigh ridiculous, hasn't anyone realised that if you bait those two rolls out from an operative before you start your main burst rotation (in which they do no damage), you have 10 seconds to beat the hell out of them?

 

They roll at the goal line, yes. So stop them before they get to that point or before they get the ball there. The same can be said of a vengence jugg if they get a leap to an enemy near the goal line.

 

Theres barely if any arguments anywhere in this thread that actualy give a proper reason why the roll needs 'nerfing'

[QuiveringPotato]

Blimey... You'd think that from the amount of people complaining there's around 4-6 operatives in every warzone, all on concealment, all rolling and resisting all to most damage in that tiny immunity window.

 

I know #NerfOperatives was a thing, but this is.. nigh ridiculous, hasn't anyone realised that if you bait those two rolls out from an operative before you start your main burst rotation (in which they do no damage), you have 10 seconds to beat the hell out of them?

 

They roll at the goal line, yes. So stop them before they get to that point or before they get the ball there. The same can be said of a vengence jugg if they get a leap to an enemy near the goal line.

 

Theres barely if any arguments anywhere in this thread that actualy give a proper reason why the roll needs 'nerfing'

 

I'm not normally one to say "l2p" or things like that, but.. I mean, I've never seen any good players ever complain about DPS operatives. Not including the shenanigans at launch up until 1.2 of course, but then again, every class was retarded if you were 50 and had full PVP gear back then.

 

I think people just don't want to have to think tactically about their abilities, they're used to just spamming their rotations and not having to save certain abilities for certain situations.

 

#nerfops

Edited August 4, 2015 by QuiveringPotato

[themachinemann]

You're not making sense. Moreover, we never run sync que or double premade. Ofcourse, when we have 8+ people online it might happen that two 4 man groups are running and they might, eventually, end up with eachother at some point. Yet, this is not intentional.

 

I see BIJ premades more than any other on TRE. Don't regstars get bored? I don't remember seeing any double premades recently, but you probably need it.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/mosh47/v/9085386

(seriously, how many times does it take to win after he lets you open?)

 

But back to the main point of this thread. Operatives can be easy to counter if you learn how. I suggest getting a friend to give you some 1v1's so you can learn more about the playstyle, or roll one yourself and discover the wonder of lolroll. It has advantages on certain maps, but it's far from overpowered.

Edited August 6, 2015 by themachinemann

[Glower]

But back to the main point of this thread. Operatives can be easy to counter if you learn how. I suggest getting a friend to give you some 1v1's so you can learn more about the playstyle, or roll one yourself and discover the wonder of lolroll. It has advantages on certain maps, but it's far from overpowered.

 

Op roll ruined the most of my Huttball games for me. Enough to nerf it a bit... And no, concealment roll is not easy to counter at all.

[jillun]

Op roll ruined the most of my Huttball games for me. Enough to nerf it a bit... And no, concealment roll is not easy to counter at all.

 

But it is

[Glower]

But it is

 

Tell this to all these troll'ers around my uncapped pylon, or to all these huttball carriers, or to all these civil war "interrupters". Yeah must be so easy, too bad i just can't notice it with all my alts...

 

I must be suck really bad in this game, worst players ever. Three years for nothing. /cry /gquit /uninstall

[Hiro_Wildfire]

Tell this to all these troll'ers around my uncapped pylon, or to all these huttball carriers, or to all these civil war "interrupters". Yeah must be so easy, too bad i just can't notice it with all my alts...

 

I must be suck really bad in this game, worst players ever. Three years for nothing. /cry /gquit /uninstall

 

generaly people who know how to counter the roll are out there in pvp doing. Those who don't seem to complain here often. Maybe instead of complaining you may want to pay attention to all of the solutions that have been surgested in the forums.

 

Huttball carriers? Force them to use the roll's before the ledge and kill them before they make it there. To the civil war intterupters? Spam cap the turret untill your resolve fills, call for backup, then force them out and kill them with team mates.

Pylon's uncapped? same solution. force them out, bring in backup, burn their 2 rolls then root + murder them.

 

The roll is good, yes. It also has a lot of counters. If you'd rather just complain and ask for it to be nerfed than learn and make use of these counter's, then you must indeed suck really bad.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hiro_Wildfire

[Glower]

Huttball carriers? Force them to use the roll's before the ledge and kill them before they make it there. To the civil war intterupters? Spam cap the turret untill your resolve fills, call for backup, then force them out and kill them with team mates.

Pylon's uncapped? same solution. force them out, bring in backup, burn their 2 rolls then root + murder them.

 

Huttball - if your pug can do this in 10 sec before next two rolls - yeah lucky you. If not - say hello to 1:0 and to leavers...

 

Civil war - by this time you have 530/600 score while mid in stalemate with all these healers or maybe capped already. GJ and say hello to leavers again...

 

Pylon - one op can easily troll 2-3 players for 60+ sec or even more, even my clunky op can do this. An call for reinforcements after that. Two concealment operatives? Oh...

 

Sure L2P. Get your own premade etc. Yeah, i get it.

[mmmbuddah]

generaly people who know how to counter the roll are out there in pvp doing. Those who don't seem to complain here often. Maybe instead of complaining you may want to pay attention to all of the solutions that have been surgested in the forums.

 

Huttball carriers? Force them to use the roll's before the ledge and kill them before they make it there. To the civil war intterupters? Spam cap the turret untill your resolve fills, call for backup, then force them out and kill them with team mates.

Pylon's uncapped? same solution. force them out, bring in backup, burn their 2 rolls then root + murder them.

 

The roll is good, yes. It also has a lot of counters. If you'd rather just complain and ask for it to be nerfed than learn and make use of these counter's, then you must indeed suck really bad.

 

The only solution I have been given is to root them. Glorious Idea. Let me just get in melee range of them with my commando...........oh wait....bad idea. E-Net is an option, and it does work, we just have to hope their cc break isn't off cooldown, if it is, gg. All that needs to happen is that if you roll twice, you get a 20 second cool down, instead of a 10. That would address the problem, and not break the class.

[Hiro_Wildfire]

root, e-net, stun, wait untill the roll's on CD.

 

As for double the cooldown on the roll? It isn't needed, that would nerf all spec's across the class for starters. Not to mention its perfectly fine as it is.

 

As for the pylon, if one operative can troll 2-3 palyers for 1 entire min? Its either the op is playing insanely well, or the 2-3 don't know how to counter an operative.

For civil war, thats not a problem with an operative, an assassin can do just as much on that front, so why the focus on operatives?

For huttball, I see pugs to this with regularity. Combineing a root with a knockbakc into the fire, a pull, a stun at the right moment and a whole buttload of dps.

 

It doesn't need adressing since it isn't broken. Its certainly very annoying to play against a good one, but people always seem to complain about operatives when they're viable.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hiro_Wildfire

[Glower]

It doesn't need adressing since it isn't broken. Its certainly very annoying to play against a good one, but people always seem to complain about operatives when they're viable.

 

Sins with 12sec cc protection and good-old phase walk, sorcs (off-)healing and barrier, conc operative roll, overtuned ED for juggs. Yeah nothing to do here move along.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Glower

[mmmbuddah]

root, e-net, stun, wait untill the roll's on CD.

 

As for double the cooldown on the roll? It isn't needed, that would nerf all spec's across the class for starters. Not to mention its perfectly fine as it is.

 

As for the pylon, if one operative can troll 2-3 palyers for 1 entire min? Its either the op is playing insanely well, or the 2-3 don't know how to counter an operative.

For civil war, thats not a problem with an operative, an assassin can do just as much on that front, so why the focus on operatives?

For huttball, I see pugs to this with regularity. Combineing a root with a knockbakc into the fire, a pull, a stun at the right moment and a whole buttload of dps.

 

It doesn't need adressing since it isn't broken. Its certainly very annoying to play against a good one, but people always seem to complain about operatives when they're viable.

 

So we should move the sniper roll to 10 seconds as well? Because we roll around the same distance as operatives rolling twice and get double the cool down time. 20 seconds is fine, 10 seconds is too short. a 23% up time for invincibility is too much.

[Saikochoro]

The only solution I have been given is to root them. Glorious Idea. Let me just get in melee range of them with my commando...........oh wait....bad idea. E-Net is an option, and it does work, we just have to hope their cc break isn't off cooldown, if it is, gg. All that needs to happen is that if you roll twice, you get a 20 second cool down, instead of a 10. That would address the problem, and not break the class.

 

This is less of a problem with op roll and more of a problem with biowares being incapable of giving mercs/mandos a proper root (i.e. one that is ranged). A lot of the time its better to wait for the second roll buff to wear off. If they were to increase the cooldown they would need to put the survivability somewhere else like a buff to shield probe. They already had a small nerf with the kolto probe nerf (not much of one), but if they widdle away the survivability then ops will return to the unviable realm. If roll changes I'd say get rid of the cc immunity during it, but keep the damage reduction and cooldown/distance the same.

[Saikochoro]

Huttball - if your pug can do this in 10 sec before next two rolls - yeah lucky you. If not - say hello to 1:0 and to leavers...

 

Civil war - by this time you have 530/600 score while mid in stalemate with all these healers or maybe capped already. GJ and say hello to leavers again...

 

Pylon - one op can easily troll 2-3 players for 60+ sec or even more, even my clunky op can do this. An call for reinforcements after that. Two concealment operatives? Oh...

 

Sure L2P. Get your own premade etc. Yeah, i get it.

 

If one op is trolling 3 players for 60+ seconds then those players suck. 3 decent players should be able to deal with an operative inside of a minute fairly easily. You can't balance around people that don't understand the basics of focus or that generally suck.

[Saikochoro]

So we should move the sniper roll to 10 seconds as well? Because we roll around the same distance as operatives rolling twice and get double the cool down time. 20 seconds is fine, 10 seconds is too short. a 23% up time for invincibility is too much.

 

Snipers and operatives are different. They have different play styles; different roles, different weaknesses, and different strengths. You can't equate their roles without equating everything else they do. So no, it would not make sense to change sniper roll based off of op roll because they are completely different classes. Snipers get a 30m execute...does that mean ops should get a 30m execute as well? No it doesn't....same goes for roll.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Hiro_Wildfire]

So we should move the sniper roll to 10 seconds as well? Because we roll around the same distance as operatives rolling twice and get double the cool down time. 20 seconds is fine, 10 seconds is too short. a 23% up time for invincibility is too much.

 

Yea.. admittedly 23% up time is a little insane, you know... If you use the roll on cooldown, which I doubt a lot of good ops do. Otherwise its predictable and easily countered.

 

Personaly I try to save it for when I need to get away, avoid a certain hit or somthing, its very situational. So this 23% uptime thing seems like complete and utter nonsense to me.

[Lalainnia]

Main issue for me with concealment specifically is that the roll immunity lasts for like 0.5 or 1 sec after the roll animation iis done also they can't be leapt to from what Iv'e seen or I guess that 30% def chance is actually doing that lol. Better concealment ops only roll once to draw out abilities then then use the next one when they know they're free which imo is fine it factors in skill and freedom to control how you play. As for the cd it's fine one of operatives main weaknesses across all 3 disciplines are actually stuns and mezzes they have no talent for utility to reduce damage from it, they do however have a big counter to it and that's kolto probe plus general hot usage and imo the length of kolto probes should be shortened to open up more killing space on the class outside of bum rushing them with MOAR DEEPS till u run out of cds which is pretty much all of pvp now.

[Elusive_Thing]

I see BIJ premades more than any other on TRE. Don't regstars get bored? I don't remember seeing any double premades recently, but you probably need it.

I am in BiJ and even I see other premades more often.

[Brunner_Venda]

Yea.. admittedly 23% up time is a little insane, you know... If you use the roll on cooldown, which I doubt a lot of good ops do. Otherwise its predictable and easily countered.

 

Personaly I try to save it for when I need to get away, avoid a certain hit or somthing, its very situational. So this 23% uptime thing seems like complete and utter nonsense to me.

 

Math says its overpowered. You can argue with a number all you want, but it's there. That won't change it.

 

And just because YOU don't use an ability whenever it's ready doesn't mean the CD isn't too short.

 

What happened to the 50% chance to hit a roller, and chance of getting that back?

[Hiro_Wildfire]

Math says its overpowered. You can argue with a number all you want, but it's there. That won't change it.

 

And just because YOU don't use an ability whenever it's ready doesn't mean the CD isn't too short.

 

What happened to the 50% chance to hit a roller, and chance of getting that back?

 

Mmh.. true, though thats also 23% of the time when they carn't do damage. So i hardly see how the math makes it overpowered. Its also 23% of the time they're sacrificing their gap closer to be more damage resistant.

 

As for the 50% chance to hit a roller, you seem to want the roll to be super nerfed all the way back down to a 50% defence chance? Thats.. not ballence, thats gutting the ability and operatives in the concealment tree.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Hiro_Wildfire

[mmmbuddah]

Yea.. admittedly 23% up time is a little insane, you know... If you use the roll on cooldown, which I doubt a lot of good ops do. Otherwise its predictable and easily countered.

 

Personaly I try to save it for when I need to get away, avoid a certain hit or somthing, its very situational. So this 23% uptime thing seems like complete and utter nonsense to me.

 

Good op or not, it doesn't change the fact that you can have a 23% up time.

[stephenalandavie]

I am in BiJ and even I see other premades more often.

 

That because we actually only do regs when we have to.

[stephenalandavie]

Good op or not, it doesn't change the fact that you can have a 23% up time.

 

Oh will you quit on whining honestly its getting really old now. A broken record has nothing on you.

[mmmbuddah]

Mmh.. true, though thats also 23% of the time when they carn't do damage. So i hardly see how the math makes it overpowered. Its also 23% of the time they're sacrificing their gap closer to be more damage resistant.

 

As for the 50% chance to hit a roller, you seem to want the roll to be super nerfed all the way back down to a 50% defence chance? Thats.. not ballence, thats gutting the ability and operatives in the concealment tree.

 

They can still close gaps in that time, stealth, position, all that. Changing the cooldown to 20 seconds if they roll twice would not break them.

[Racter]

It's fine l2p. lol at 23% uptime, yeah, just double roll on CD, not you like ever need to close a gap, or skillfully dodge a huge chunk of damage/CC at the right time. Just go ahead and use that on CD, so we can complain about it like that's a thing.

 

You people