Honor Code of a pilot?

[Monumenta]

lolumadbro?

 

There's nothing wrong with what the OP is saying. Nice flame though.

 

nothing to be mad about I just honestly disagree, do you have an opinion or do you just chime in to let people know you are led to lols with your low reader comprehension?

[Lendul]

All of the people with the "be relentless" stance automatically forfeit any right to complain about queues. The sparsity and need to bring in outside players on The Bastion now makes complete sense. Also to all a fore mentioned players. Stay on your server and reap the fruits of your labor. Do not come to the healthy and fertile green pastures of The Harbinger. We have worked hard to cultivate what we have and do not need your cancerous egos.

[Verain]

No one is busy recruiting for Bastion. Many players maintain alts or mains there for super serious nights, but normally those players aren't chain queuing. Bastion has heathy queues, very healthy when you remember that Bastion's ground game guilds are smaller due to things utterly unrelated to GSF (the total population shrunk due to guild or progression related reasons that I don't fully understand, but heard a bit of from a raid lead).

 

To your other point: I and others will do as we please.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Verain

[Lendul]

 

To your other point: I and others will do as we please.

Exactly

[jordocaust]

I have a couple toons I play on Bastion, almost exclusively for GSF (I have been taking advantage of the 12x boost while in queue though).

 

I have noticed that the GSF community there is pretty healthy. Both in terms of size, queue times (relative to other servers) and attitudes. I was worried that the low population would have effects on the GSF community, but it doesn't. There aren't any poor sportsmen or venomous comments that I have ever seen. Yes, that's anecdotal, but at least it's coming from someone who plays there.

[lwiggles]

I like this code. if i break it is usually against someone who is a repeat offender themselves

 

Although i try to encourage these values, I also get that people want to fly how they wanna fly. I think fly with people you are aligned with. You will have more fun that way. The temptation of the dark side is always there of course

[Etrii]

Hmmm....I agree and dis-agree. At the same time.

 

Play as you like but don`t be an arse. If you want to always go all in,Like Verains version. Sure go for it.

 

If you are feeling generous, have time to spare to farm medalas or fly a Lolz ship do so.

 

 

But...Don`t whine about ohers spending their time in game as they want to. Some of us have a limited play time and THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THEIR TIME TO HAVE MAXIMUM FUN

 

But don`t use "it shapes better pilots, argument". It dosent work on most. On most pilots it works: like ah damn to hell wth that game. And those of us, who were stubbern enough to pass the learning curve...well we would do it anyway.

 

You know what is better after a match vs food ships? Pick up one-two names that died lest or you saw them TRYING, relog talk to them and HELP THEM GET BETTER. Tell them about GSF channel, Stasiepedia, Drak`s vids, or just help them with crew setting(stock one is crap)

 

I can tell you, getting 3 - caped, blown out on spawn by 3 seismic in the face. Is a terrible experience. But`s its IN THE GAME!. You win strongly, you have fair fights, and you loose as well

 

Every top pilot had a match when they were hounted like dogs, couse their team was crap and loosed badly.We know how it feels. Even tommysub had at least one match like this, and I had a pleasure to be on the hunting side. And he flies the most survivable meta ship in the game and is propably the best scout on the market.

Base line:

Have fun, Help people, and dont be a an arse about winning or loosing.

[WhiteKing]

I find it mildly amusing how people go into defensive when you ask them whether or not they have some self-imposed lines they try not to cross, and provide an example of your own to get a debate going.

 

In every match where a spawn push happened, I asked the team to give the opposition some breathing room. Nobody ever took it as a personal insult, even if they continued the pressure. Which wasn't taken as a personal insult in return. No hate in whispers after match either. If only we knew how much outrage could have been milked from that situation, we could have argued for hours

 

So again, what do you consider to be just rude, or outright wrong? Or do you think that anything goes? Do you have any unwritten rules you try to adhere to?

 

("nothing in particular" or "people asking me to slow down the curbstomp"; "yes"; "no" are all perfectly valid answers)

[jmonka]

Maybe so. But I am curious- you do know that medals mean absolutely nothing towards power gain, right? Some cheeves look at medal count, but your ship will level up at the same rate with 0 medals as with all of them.

 

Not disagreeing with the rewards-for-loss thing, just making sure that unlike the ground game, medals are meaningless.

 

Ok, so at the risk of sounding a lot more noobish than I thought I was... What does impact requisition gain then?

To be honest I've never tested my assumption, but I have always assumed it was medal count since matches I have a high medal count I usually have 1.5-2k ship and 200-300 fleet req. In contrast in matches where I'm the only experienced pilot on my side against 8 vets/aces and we get triple capped and I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 medals my req. gains tend to be closer to 800 ship and 100 fleet. (I'm like 98% sure that these general numbers are both from using ships with the daily bonus available so I don't believe it's the lack of daily bonus).

 

I would try to replicate this for more exact numbers but it's too late for me to try tonight. Might try to test it for more exact numbers tomorrow once I'm home from work if you don't have a chance to explain this to me before then Verain.

[Lendul]

Ok, so at the risk of sounding a lot more noobish than I thought I was... What does impact requisition gain then?

To be honest I've never tested my assumption, but I have always assumed it was medal count since matches I have a high medal count I usually have 1.5-2k ship and 200-300 fleet req. In contrast in matches where I'm the only experienced pilot on my side against 8 vets/aces and we get triple capped and I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 medals my req. gains tend to be closer to 800 ship and 100 fleet. (I'm like 98% sure that these general numbers are both from using ships with the daily bonus available so I don't believe it's the lack of daily bonus).

 

I would try to replicate this for more exact numbers but it's too late for me to try tonight. Might try to test it for more exact numbers tomorrow once I'm home from work if you don't have a chance to explain this to me before then Verain.

At the end of the game on the scoreboard there is a tab you can click on titled "Earnings". It will breakdown exactly where you got every single point of requisition.

[Nemarus]

At the end of the game on the scoreboard there is a tab you can click on titled "Earnings". It will breakdown exactly where you got every single point of requisition.

 

But in general, in Domination you get lots for capturing and defending. You get a little for kills and assists. You also get some for clearing turrets I believe.

 

In Deathmatch, you get a large, equal amount for kills and assists, and I believe a small amount for picking up powerups. Not sure on that last bit, but I seem to remember it.

[jmonka]

Ah okay good to know. Thanks all (odd as it is I've read every guide I've been able to find about flying but never bothered to look into requisition gain )

 

It is good to know that my usual preference to not-3-cap if my say has any weight isn't a total waste though since there actually *is* a significant gain of req for newbies if they want to sit and farm defense in a hopeless match.

 

Thanks again for teaching me my GSF fact of the day

[Bolo_Yeung]

(...)in Domination you get lots for capturing and defending. You get a little for kills and assists. You also get some for clearing turrets I believe.

 

(sub/pass multiply by 1.5) If I recall, 60 for a cap, 10 for turret. 5 for kill and ~15-20 for minute of defense, so defending unattacked sat does not give 'a lot' (unless you're killing/assisting as well).

[habmaniac]

In one of my very first matches I was cap-lock screamed at for "being a noob" and being one of 3 defending a sat so I honestly wasn't sure what route I was supposed to take to gain my req. When I threw myself into the fray it seemed like I needed 5 or 6 missle shots to kill anything with my less than useful strike fighter. Defending just seemed like an easier way to try to build myself up.

 

I don't have a problem with people playing the game the way they want to play it. In this case this guy was on "my team" and he wasn't holding himself to any sort of civil code. That is where I draw the line. If I suck you can shoot me until the cows come home until I get better or quit but when we are teammate who are supposed to be striving for the same "goal" it would behoove everyone to help everyone improve their game.

[Veronaea]

As someone who is interested in GSF I want to say this.

 

Right now getting started in it is virtually impossible. I would have to grind dozens of matches to get a ship that isn't a complete waste of time. Why? Because it's impossible to get more than 0-2 medals and barely any requisition each time the queue does finally pop. It's not ability, I hit the opposing ship quite well, and barely dent it, then get 1 shot. This turns it into one of those things of 'why bother?'. Because it's all in one queue, not separated by experience of any type, my brand new ship that I'm still learning to play is in there with peoples maxed out ships who have a ton of experience, with predictable results.

 

Now maybe it's the system itself that needs changing, but as it is you're killing your own queues by discouraging people from playing. The other pvp matches don't do this nearly as much, no clue on warzone? You can still get 5-8 medals having no clue and build those commendations to get gear at 60 so you're less of a joke (not to mention there's more options to get at least halfway ok gear through basic commendations). GSF doesn't have this.

[Lendul]

As someone who is interested in GSF I want to say this.

 

Right now getting started in it is virtually impossible. I would have to grind dozens of matches to get a ship that isn't a complete waste of time. Why? Because it's impossible to get more than 0-2 medals and barely any requisition each time the queue does finally pop. It's not ability, I hit the opposing ship quite well, and barely dent it, then get 1 shot. This turns it into one of those things of 'why bother?'. Because it's all in one queue, not separated by experience of any type, my brand new ship that I'm still learning to play is in there with peoples maxed out ships who have a ton of experience, with predictable results.

 

Now maybe it's the system itself that needs changing, but as it is you're killing your own queues by discouraging people from playing. The other pvp matches don't do this nearly as much, no clue on warzone? You can still get 5-8 medals having no clue and build those commendations to get gear at 60 so you're less of a joke (not to mention there's more options to get at least halfway ok gear through basic commendations). GSF doesn't have this.

The first hurdle you must get over is the notion that is not ability. Experienced pilots can can earn requisition just fine in completely stock ships.

Here is a link to an entire thread dedicated to showing people this exact point.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330&highlight=stock

Edited June 8, 2015 by Lendul

[Veronaea]

Oh, I know it's a matter of ability. But you can't get that ability when you are nothing more than one shot bait. There is no ability to improve because you don't know what is or isn't working. I know I can hit them, and I know that it does next to nothing when I do, I can survive for a while and then it's one shot good bye. That isn't teaching me much besides dodging, which is great, but when I can watch as I hit them 20-30 times and only take away 15% before I die from a tiny slip up I'm not learning a whole besides 'my ship is screwed'.

[Caernos]

Oh, I know it's a matter of ability. But you can't get that ability when you are nothing more than one shot bait. There is no ability to improve because you don't know what is or isn't working. I know I can hit them, and I know that it does next to nothing when I do, I can survive for a while and then it's one shot good bye. That isn't teaching me much besides dodging, which is great, but when I can watch as I hit them 20-30 times and only take away 15% before I die from a tiny slip up I'm not learning a whole besides 'my ship is screwed'.

 

Have you joined your server's GSF channel? If not, I highly recommend doing so, so that you may talk with the other pilots of your server and discuss strategy and builds between matches. Furthermore, if you feel you are getting destroyed or shot down a lot, try to pay attention to who's really gunning you down. Then try and talk to that person (hop to the other side if need be) and ask if they wouldn't mind flying with you for a few matches so you can see how they do things and they can see what you're doing and give tips. Most of the high level pilots are friendly people who want other's to succeed so that they have a challenge and will be happy to talk to other players.

 

There are quite a few high level pilots here on the forums who are sometimes willing to take others out and help train them up it's just a matter of asking around.

 

Anyways, hope this was helpful, unfortunately I don't have much else to offer right now. Keep flying though. A lot of the skill is just trial by error; learning what works and doesn't work and then repeating until you have it down.

[habmaniac]

The damning part of the argument is "an experienced pilot" can earn req just fine in a stock ship. Yes an experienced pilot can but it is much harder for a new pilot. Not saying it is impossible but you have to be willing to eat a lot of blaster fire before you can start giving some back.

 

I learned this myself when I hopped onto a Pub side player and for the first time played with a stock ship since I had started playing GSF. It was night and day over my first experience because I knew the basic controls. I knew how to make all of the little adjustments that made me play better than the other two shippers on the board. Now I didn't tear up the leaderboards because as I have said I am very mediocre but it made me realize how hard it was in that first ship. You come into the game having played many space flight type games before and you know that when you get missile lock or fire away with your blasters repeatedly you will get the desired result but that isn't the case for the new player in GSF. I mean in those first few games even a stationary target with some defense (turrets) seems unbeatable.

[JouerTue]

when GSF came out, i had a bit of fun playing around with ships and stuff.

couldn't play a couple of days and the gap among players was already huge..i was able to compete with the scout ship if i remember correctly, then i couldn't play for another couple of days...

 

once popped i realized i couldn't damage the enemies almost at all, got camped and farmed at spawn, never played again. i still think it's a nice part of the game and i'm happy people like it..

[AlrikFassbauer]

Certainly you should never play weak ships against good players, as this is generally insulting to them.

 

I should bow before good players and try to please them ?

 

What state has GSF become now ?

 

Do good players now dictate how the game should be played ?

Especially to Newbies ?

 

bottom line is you are trying to control other people, other peoples ques, other peoples moral, other peoples tactics and you are using some fake code to justify it, I dont agree, I say do your thing and quit acting like your way is superior and everyone else needs to conform to you, behavior like that would not be welcome in any other mode of the game

 

Had the same thought when I was reading the sentence I quoted above.

 

Again, imagine asking people in a pvp match to conform to not using powerful abilities or not to fight people in certain places on the map for the sake of sportsmanship.

 

When I read your post, I begin to wonder how the term "sportmanship" could evolve in the first place ? There ius no need for such a thing whatsoever, if I read your post.

If people were playing like you want them to play, the ancient Olympic Games had no rules at all.

There shouldn't be any rules at all, because rules would server no other purpose than impose some kind of sportsmanship - like not beating someone to death in ancient boxing.

 

Rules

 

[1]

Funerary relief (510–500 BC) depicting wrestlers

Peleus and Atalanta wrestling (Painter of Munich name vase, Attic black-figure amphora, 500–490 BC)

 

These are the rules of the ancient sport Palé:

 

No intentional hitting or kicking is permitted

No gouging the eyes or biting is permitted, since even the Pankration does not allow these

It is at the discretion of the referee whether or not twisting the fingers with the intention of forcing the opponent to concede defeat is permitted

Grasping the genitals is prohibited

All other holds intended to persuade the opponent to concede defeat through pain or fear are permitted and are an integral part of the contest

Infractions shall be punished by immediate whipping by the referee until the undesirable behaviour is stopped

Three points must be scored to win the match

A point can be scored in any of three ways:

the opponent’s back touching the ground at any time

by the opponent tapping or in some other way making clear that he concedes defeat through pain or fear

by the opponent making contact with ground outside the allocated wrestling-match ground with any part of his body, or by being lifted and carried out

After scoring a point, the opponent must be given time to rise on his feet and a few moments more before the wrestling may continue

The match is both started and ended at the signal of the referee

The referee can at any time stop the match if he believes a point has been scored but the contestants have continued to wrestle unaware of the point having been scored

The referee or other officials in charge of the contest, if other officials are presiding, shall resolve any dispute the contestants have over scoring, and their decision shall be final

The wrestling-ground shall be a large square, 28.5 by 28.5 metres (a Plethron: 100 Greek Feet, the typical width of a running-track), or any other size determined by the holders of the games, and it shall be all of sand or earth

The contestants shall begin the match at the center of the wrestling-ground outside of each other’s touching-range, the precise distance being at the discretion of the referee

All other more specific details are at the discretion of the officials presiding over the games

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wrestling

Edited June 8, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[StrixHiraeth]

I think that Verain's comment was tongue-in-cheek. I think that Monumenta is being more sincere, and more than a little hypocritical.

 

The outcry of new pilots has centered around being frustrated and unable to learn the game because they are insta-gibbed. It's been a prevailing complaint for a long time. Fact is, people in PvP games will behave like PvPers. New pilots will either endure this and find a way to learn the game anyway, or they will spare themselves the frustration and do something else. Judging by the wide reports of declining queues on every server, it seems the latter is happening more than the former.

 

There is nothing wrong with encouraging sportsmanship or manners, or whatever term can be applied to just going easy on weaker players. In the game chess, the masters have to go easy on those learning the game for the simple reason that if they don't, there won't be any new players. Of course, it's unrealistic for a novice to expect mercy if they enter a competitive chess tournament--experienced players hold stakes in the outcome and justifiably protect their interests by playing to the best of their ability the whole time.

 

Thing is, GSF is not competitive in any objective sense. There are no ratings brackets, no seasons, no rewards of any kind except for personal gratification and bragging rights. Sure, there are battlerecords that can be maintained and linked... but those are pretty meaningless in an empty sky.

 

Yes, it is a game, and yes people can and should play however they want. But I just don't get the backlash directed at the OP.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ymris

[Monumenta]

I don't know how I'm being a hippo, and I do believe in the actual rules, like dont use hax and stuff, my problem is my server Bergeren Colony is full of people admittedly padding their stats every match, even if the match is close they berate people for attacking a 3rd satellite stating they will get less rewards, Ive seen matches lost because everyone abandons C when the same people telling them to abandon C and not 3 cap cant hold A, Ive seen all the subjects of this 'honor code' used as excuses for this behavior after of course decent people reject the notion of stat padding, I don't know about other servers but that's the problem on mine and where I get my opinion. BC does have a thriving GSF community but I still don't think its because they can control other peoples moral by stat padding. Also Id like to point out I started playing GSF a year after it was introduced everyone had mastered ships and I powered through it till my ship was mastered too maybe its just not for everyone, maybe it is horribly imbalanced, but if there's a problem that's for Bioware to fix not white knights acting like their way is the only way and calling it an 'honor code'.. Edited June 9, 2015 by Monumenta

[Linuxizer]

Look out, Verain, there are at least two posters challenging your "most despicable" claim...

[Archonitek]

The first hurdle you must get over is the notion that is not ability. Experienced pilots can can earn requisition just fine in completely stock ships.

Here is a link to an entire thread dedicated to showing people this exact point.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330&highlight=stock

 

The problem with drako's thread is that it is drako flying. I do some what agree that skill>gear however you need the skills/experience there in the first place for that point to be valid and that is only accumulated by putting in the time to fly and suss out all the little tips and tricks you pick up over the course of the game.

 

Skill to performance ratio increases pretty much linearly. The longer your play, the more skill/experience you get, the better you perform. Gear to performance ability is more like a series of jumps, where unlocking key components and tiers give a big boost in either damage output, survival or securing kills, especially for people just starting out where the performance jump is even greater.

 

Bringing the topic back, I try to go easier on sides that are clearly outmatched and i'll usually say something in ops, either to leave the other side a sat or to pull off their spawn so as not to kill the queue quickly. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't, although I've noticed a lot of times that the pilots who usually vehemently refuse seem to be newer pilots who maybe lost a whole bunch of games and say 'THEY DO THE SAME THING TO US, FK EM!' and keep on going.

 

Still there's no point in trying to enforce others in how they should play their game and have their fun, so if a suggestion doesn't work, just brush it off and wait for next match and hope for a more balanced game.