Removing Force Pull was a mistake.

[Saliq]

Hey there.

 

First I would like to say, I played both a Jedi Knight Guardian and a Sith Warrior Juggernaut in both beta and release, and I love the class.

But with that said, there's one thing which I am sure some of us can agree upon, and that is force pull being removed was a foolish idea.

We are talking about a Class who excels at single target tanking, with close to none AoE abilities except low range ones, and no real long range attacks.

The biggest issue here is the fact that once you charge in you want to use your smash to gather up AoE aggro, before hand if you had a mob out of range you could pull it in and then hit smash, now you have to spend time actually running/charging to a mob then push it in with the right positioning, then run in and hit Smash.

 

With all that time passed, you are bound to lose aggro on some of the mobs, running for healers or dps (in case they don't know how to wait) and it makes the Sith Juggernaut run all over the place in all honesty.

Removing that one skill made things much harder for the Juggernaut, and if we look at both the Bounty Hunter and Assassin who both can excel at ranged attacks, they also both have a pull (Grapple and Force Pull)

 

I would not propose any changes except adding in the pull to make the lives of the sith juggernauts a bit easier, while still maintaining the fun we have playing the class.

[DarthBiz]

I would LOVE to have force pull. Would be incredibly useful for a melee tank.

[RecklessFable]

Not to mention, I fell in love with the idea for this class and finding out it doesn't have this anymore makes me feel all empty and hollow inside.

 

Ok, I exaggerate, but I miss yelling COME HERE! At my screen.

[seventhprophet]

I'm a healer who has a friend that plays BH. I have seen him use something like this with a cable. I always thought it was weird since he is ranged. Why don't warriors get this as well? Seems like it would benefit you more.

[Noth]

I'm a healer who has a friend that plays BH. I have seen him use something like this with a cable. I always thought it was weird since he is ranged. Why don't warriors get this as well? Seems like it would benefit you more.

 

Powertechs are still melee they just get a lot of ranged options. That said, it's still bs that a pull would make us unkitable, but the Powertech getting a pull along with a closer (depending on tree) along with their ranged options is not unkitable?

[Emgro]

Apparently they removed Force Pull because it seemed like something they stole from Star Wars.

[Samous]

Powertechs are still melee they just get a lot of ranged options. That said, it's still bs that a pull would make us unkitable, but the Powertech getting a pull along with a closer (depending on tree) along with their ranged options is not unkitable?

 

I am already UnKiteable without Force pull.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Samous

[Noth]

I am already UnKiteable without Force pull.

 

You really aren't. You can be easily kited by Sorcs and snipers. Heck snipers don't even need to kite you.

[Samous]

You really aren't. You can be easily kited by Sorcs and snipers. Heck snipers don't even need to kite you.

 

I haven't encountered an issue yet with someone kiting me for long

[NasherUK]

It is a bit annoying and part of why powertech has the advantage as a tank. They can charge, pull, AOE and knock back and are a ranged class. The warrior as a melee class has 1 gap closer so you have to run around all over the place trying to gather up mobs as they bolt for the healer. Edited December 27, 2011 by NasherUK

[Ravothian]

Sith Warriors are not designed to be good at tanking groups, they are designed to be amazing at tanking ONE target.

 

Get used to the fact that you are going to suck at trash pulls in flashpoints, because as every experienced MMO player knows, flashpoints are less than a fifth of what real content entails. When you get to raiding, you are going to LOVE your class and laugh at all the BH's and Assassins having trouble keeping up with your threat and taunting off of you.

[Emgro]

Sith Warriors are not designed to be good at tanking groups, they are designed to be amazing at tanking ONE target.

 

Get used to the fact that you are going to suck at trash pulls in flashpoints, because as every experienced MMO player knows, flashpoints are less than a fifth of what real content entails. When you get to raiding, you are going to LOVE your class and laugh at all the BH's and Assassins having trouble keeping up with your threat and taunting off of you.

 

I'd be more likely to believe this if it was vaguely true. Not having a single-target enemy pull (which BHs have) somehow makes us "designed to be amazing at tanking ONE target"?

 

So having weak AoE mob controls AND weak single-target controls makes us amazing at something?

 

Juggers are amazing at nothing when compared to another tank. Useful, yes, but only amazing at tanking next to an Operative.

[deserttfoxx]

So you have trouble tanking groups with sweeping slash, smash, threatening scream and force push?

 

Perhaps you should change to a bounty hunter, i heard their life is pretty easy.

 

Maybe at level 42 i am playing a different class, i have no problems maintaining aoe aggro. And, ive yet to find a situation where i really need to, in most group fights we are only required to tank teh strong/elites and champions, the group can manage the weak mobs on their own, as such they dont even warrant a taunt.

Edited December 27, 2011 by deserttfoxx

[Lrdprimus]

I dont know much about this game yet but Legacy skills might have Force Pull back in the warriors hands?

 

Just a guess

 

again I know nothing about the legacy part

[Bullsith]

I haven't encountered an issue yet with someone kiting me for long

 

Try fighting players.

[Canoftuna]

I posted something similar in the Tanking forums

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=81449

[midnitemonster]

Force Pull is really not needed. For the 4 Republic fight in Mandalorian Raiders it goes Knight, Smugg, Troop, Counc. You let the Knight ping pong around while you hold aggro on the other three. So long as everyone else is only hitting the Knight there is no reason to lose aggro on the other three.

 

These fights are designed with certain things in mind. One of them being that not all tanks were created equal. Use what you are given (including your brain) and there should be no problems.

 

I agree that Force Pull would be nice. However it is not needed, especially at later levels. We have Saber Throw, Taunt, Force Push, Force Choke and Force Scream for ranged abilities. Threatening Scream, Smash, Sweeping Slash, and Chilling Scream for AoE. If guys are still getting out of your range then you need to be quicker on the draw, or set up your quickslots differently.

[Noth]

Force Pull is really not needed. For the 4 Republic fight in Mandalorian Raiders it goes Knight, Smugg, Troop, Counc. You let the Knight ping pong around while you hold aggro on the other three. So long as everyone else is only hitting the Knight there is no reason to lose aggro on the other three.

 

These fights are designed with certain things in mind. One of them being that not all tanks were created equal. Use what you are given (including your brain) and there should be no problems.

 

I agree that Force Pull would be nice. However it is not needed, especially at later levels. We have Saber Throw, Taunt, Force Push, Force Choke and Force Scream for ranged abilities. Threatening Scream, Smash, Sweeping Slash, and Chilling Scream for AoE. If guys are still getting out of your range then you need to be quicker on the draw, or set up your quickslots differently.

 

And BH have more than that. That is the issue. they can do everything the SJ does but better.

[MasterUltrunus]

We had force pull and now no longer? That sucks! That would solve so many problems, well inconveniences anyways. Hate to bring up WoW but I played a DK tank and I loved having the pull taunt. It was a great ability and really made tanking that much better. I would understand if only one class got a pull and the other got a charge and the other got a ranged ability but Assassin and Powertech have a pull so we should have one for balance's sake. A BH hardly even needs that grapple ability since they're ranged anyways yet a melee class with, as TC said, low AoE utility doesn't have a pull.

[jd-inflames]

Try fighting players.

 

Try Force Charge.

[ReFlexionn]

TRY REDBULL!! i heard it gives you wings!

[Wildfae]

forgive me if Im a little ignorant, but at lvl 22 I have no trouble main tanking any instance, whether its a quest area or flashpoint. In fact having more than 2 elites beating on me kills me, so having the tools to pull more than that onto you sounds like a bad idea. And from what I understand we get crazy better at tanking as the game moves along.

That said, almost all MMO's, tanking classes almost always have gap closers, whether its a charge or pull. Would it be cool to have a pull, yes. is it necessary? I dont see the need yet. If your group cant focus down Strongs and non elites, then they are doing something wrong. This game as a whole is ridiculously easy to play.

[midnitemonster]

And BH have more than that. That is the issue. they can do everything the SJ does but better.

 

So the issue is that "you are of the opinion" that BH's are better tanks than us?... How about some of you spend more time learning your class rather than stating false facts. So worried about what everyone else is doing, and where they are. Than looking at yourself and getting better with your class.

 

BH's and Assassin's are not better tanks, they are tanks just like us with different abilities. If you go to their forums, they say the same things. Whining about how we are better than them. And around and around we go...

[Noth]

So the issue is that "you are of the opinion" that BH's are better tanks than us?... How about some of you spend more time learning your class rather than stating false facts. So worried about what everyone else is doing, and where they are. Than looking at yourself and getting better with your class.

 

BH's and Assassin's are not better tanks, they are tanks just like us with different abilities. If you go to their forums, they say the same things. Whining about how we are better than them. And around and around we go...

 

Level 50, been playing the class for longer than the game has been out. I personally have no problems tanking. But the fact remains the BH gets plenty of single target threat and loads more aoe threat. Add in they end up with better defensive stats and cooldowns on a lower cooldown. We get three but two of them are a toss up in effectiveness. They then get not only charge, but a pull and numerous ranged abilities. That does make them better since they are pretty much just as good as Juggs are in single target, they are just loads better at AoE and give up basically nothing for it. Jugg gives up AoE and range to have needlessly high single target threat.

[SaberStab]

I personally think that having Force Pull back would be amazing. In my mind the Sith Warrior/jedi knight represents the physical augmentation of/telekinetic force (might/acrobatics, push, pull, choke, scream), while the inquisitor/assassin is more the physical manifestation of it in the form of force lightning, etc.

 

Aside from that personal preference, restoring Force Pull would give the Warrior/Knight a bit more control in regards to tanking, and more options. Force Charge is cool...but not so much when it makes more sense to pull your foe to you for quick dispatchment or even pulling a CC target out of a pack so that you can charge in for a smash.

 

In any case, it would be awesome to have it back (even if through the legacy system) to let me feel like a true master of the Lightningless Force.