Floplag Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) They really dont want hybrid classes in this game it would seem... oh, and no balance tweaks. lol Edited June 4, 2015 by Floplag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stridemachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Some elaboration is required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diadox Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Assuming numbers are the same as they were in those previous healing pts changes that didn't get through, it's a nerf to dps merc offheals and buff to dps sorc offheals (yeah, really ). Dps operative offheal changes are different mechanically from the reverted ones so can't say really, but looks like a nerf since the 15 Kolto Probe energy cost on live isn't that much of a limiting factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) sorc off-heals will be even better(and they're already damn good). I guess not as easily spammable while still having enough force to eventually do damage, but the "significant" heal increase should make up for it. they should increase the force cost of dark heal for all specs and put the dark heal buff into the healing tree instead of giving it to DPS too... mercs will have an easier time spam healing, but at 20 heat, you can't really use rapid scan that much without vent heat up operative off-heals will be worse but they were never spectacular considering they're just HoTs beside infusion which has a long cooldown and costs a TA Edited June 4, 2015 by OMGITSJAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Some elaboration is required patch notes are up in the PTS forum.. take a peek ...and i should have clarified with the once again exception of Sorcs it would seem, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 sorc off-heals will be even better(and they're already damn good). I guess not as easily spammable while still having enough force to eventually do damage, but the "significant" heal increase should make up for it. mercs will have an easier time spam healing, but at 20 heat, you can't really use rapid scan that much without vent heat up operative off-heals will be worse but they were never spectacular considering they're just HoTs beside infusion which has a long cooldown and costs a TA i forgot to note the Sorc exception.. i thought that was assumed? lol plus they wont need to spam them, they are stronger they really want us playing sorcs i guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Assuming numbers are the same as they were in those previous healing pts changes that didn't get through, it's a nerf to dps merc offheals and buff to dps sorc offheals (yeah, really ). Dps operative offheal changes are different mechanically from the reverted ones so can't say really, but looks like a nerf since the 15 Kolto Probe energy cost on live isn't that much of a limiting factor. What you are missing is the Devs really only want Sorcs in a healing role... Or the only hybrid utility role in the game... They have continued to Nerf Sorc dps since launch when ever they can hold their own against other classes and kill them... The Devs are all about survivabilty for Sorcs... Not killing other players... Hence usually low burst damage, usually Dots do the most damage for Sorcs... So they have to try to survive... I've been here since launch and really the only time Sorcs have been able to put out great burst dmage in pvp has been the start of 3.0... People then cried because Sorcs were nolonger an easy kill... The only thing that "may" have been considered OP was Lightning Storm spam... But they've Nerfed other things too that didn't need nerfing... This has made a lot of people switch to healing as dps has been nerfed too much.. Expect more Nerfs too because people are still QQing (LoL)... So those still running dps will try to help with more off heals... Especially as your melee Rush cap... You can just stand back and off heal so one of them caps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 well since you are so in the know on what the devs "want"... could you clue us in on why they are ignoring mercs in pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Yep, looks like exactly the same DPS merc off-heal nerfs that were in the last crappy PTS healing update. They haven't even bothered to try and explain why this time - last time they announced they were trying to 'buff' merc DPS burst healing. Which was pretty much the opposite of what the changes did. I mean seriously - removing our big heal (and the proc that made it instant cast), and adding a (seriously nerfed) spammable small heal. And they thought they were buffing burst. Not too bright. And of course the kolto shot nerf. Because derp. I guess I'll wait until the PTS forum opens and call the devs morons. Again. Part of me wonders if this is just some secret plan to get mercs to stop asking for buffs. Please guys, stop 'helping'. Edited June 4, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recamier Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 well since you are so in the know on what the devs "want"... could you clue us in on why they are ignoring mercs in pvp? Mercs are going to be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes. ......Wait, did the revolution happen? All I see are mercs up against the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stridemachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 patch notes are up in the PTS forum.. take a peek ...and i should have clarified with the once again exception of Sorcs it would seem, lol While these changes are slight nerfs to dps OP heals, I'd hardly call it the "death of dps spec off heals." And DPS sorcs off heals are buffed soo.... Perhaps you should change the thread title to "the death of Merc dps off heals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 they really want us playing sorcs i guess... It's more that they don't want you playing Mercs. In PvP at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Perhaps you should change the thread title to "the death of Merc dps off heals." eh, with the changes I think dps mercs will have higher overall off heals at the cost of losing the ability to burst heal themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 eh, with the changes I think dps mercs will have higher overall off heals at the cost of losing the ability to burst heal themselves. which given our current issues is a nerf to the spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 They need to reduce the cost with charged barrier and it should decent especially considering medical probe has no cd while advanced med probe does. Like 2 grav rounds should make the cast close to instant , but it really needs a reduced cost to be any kind of decent. I don't get why diagnostic scan and medshot are being nerfed that makes no sense imo. The scoundrel changes are odd slight hot ability nerfs but talent healing buffs and a significant buff to uwm. Kolto cloud having almost near 100% uptime with the new 6p set bonus is kinda crazy pretty sure it will just have 1 sec of downtime no idea how much it heals for tho. Sages will be sages interested in seeing how much the new noble sac heals for though from what it looks like though at least for the seer tree they will still be endless batteries because 3 stacks will make it instant, who knows though hopefully they didn't go crazy with the healing increases for sages even though the costs went up. The new noble sac is a straight nerf to the dps specs tho I doubt any of them are going to want to spend 2 seconds or 1.9 w/e casting a unknown% heal for only 30 force lol especially balance.\ O well though my sub runs out today so I prob won't even be able to test any of it the biggest thing is for people to test stuff at least before going crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeothree Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't get it. Mercs are losing a heal with a cooldown for a spammable heal. How is that not a buff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Hell it's even a nerf for sorc healers. Buff the off heals, nerf the actual heals? On live, using 3 stacks of Force surge for consumption=48*3=144 Force return. On PTS, using 3 stacks of Force surge for the new consumption thingie (which will now be a requirement for consumption to be viable as otherwise it's a hardcast LOL)=55 Force return, with all applicable set and talent bonuses, if I added correctly. So we have to spend more than one innervate cycle setting it up unless we get really lucky with RNG, and get back less than the cost of a single heal. Furthermore, if I read the patchotes right, we're losing access to instant revivification entirely (not that we would ever have the actual option to do it with the above describe nerf), which in turn causes the loss of an instant Dark Heal proc that helped finally make sorc healing viable at 3.0. I know people QQ about sorcs having Force management too easy but this is at the same time the costs of our heals are going up--and the last time this was on PTS, the "healing has been significantly increased" was NOWHERE NEAR the proportion of the increased Force cost. Didn't we just get done telling the devs to shove this ****? Ugh why does the new guy who doesn't know anything about the history of our nerf/buff/QQ/nerf cycle have to fck everything up again? Edited June 4, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeothree Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If I didn't know better (and I don't), I'd say you were all just looking for reasons to hate on Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkii_boy Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) If I didn't know better (and I don't), I'd say you were all just looking for reasons to hate on Bioware. Exactly what im thinking aswell. this patch is looking really good and promising from a PvP point of view. too soon to tell if sorcs are on the same page as the other two healers in regards to energymanagement after this but we'll have to try and see. Edited June 4, 2015 by Sharkii_boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twithep Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Addressing the Mercenary offhealing changes, regarding dps specs: I love my Mercenary in PvP, but our offheals have been shafted before, why again? I understand this is a change to make us able to heal to full (through spamming Rapid Scan), because many were complaining about the fact that we could only do burst healing in dps specs. Sadly this is a significant nerf. Our main weakness in arenas is that the best way to kill us is to simply tunnel us, no further tactics needed. There's many reasons why this is a good tactic against us, the two biggest i would say is our complete lack of mobility and the fact that our defensive cooldowns don't force target switches or hurt their ability to kill us quickly through tunneling. A Sorcerer has great advantage from a spammable heal, because they have great mobility, and already very good self-healing from Unnatural Preservation, Static Barrier, and from dots/Deathfield if one plays madness. Sorcs will pop around a corner and heal up, they can root-knock, barrier-mezz or Force Speed to get there, and they will probably have one or more of these available if they are chased. As a Mercenary it's hard to get away from the main fight, because you are generally the sole focus target and people are following you, your knockback (if it even works through Hydraulic Overrides, Force Shrouds and other immunities) is not enough to keep people away for any significant time. Very many people play Assassins, Powertechs and other classes that have a easy time catching up to targets and staying on them, on top of this many of these classes have damage that is hard or impossible to shut down or get away from as a Mercenary. All this coupled with the Mercenaries weak cooldowns means we would need to get away from the enemies focusing us before they can kill us (which depending on their skill/classes can be a very short time), for us then to start spamming our heals. This won't be possible most of the time for a Mercenary, unlike the other two offhealing clases (Operatives and Sorcerers) that have better mobility and defensive cooldowns than us. At the moment i find the best way to survive is to pop every defensive cooldowns available (Kolto Overload, Chaff Flare, Energy Shield and Warzone Adrenal) at the same time, while being specced into 30% damage reduction from being stunned, and hoping that people will stun you so that the cooldowns actually add up enough for you to survive heavy focus. After Kolto Overload ends i use my Warzone Medpack, and a instant Healing Scan, while using Hydraulic Overrides and after that Jet Boost hoping to get away from the chasing players, this usually gains me a few more seconds of life. After this change i don't get enough healing for this to add up so that i don't die in the next second to a bit of damage and executes. Offhealing changes i interpret as mostly pvp-related changes, so i appreciate that you're thinking of Mercenary viability, but this is sadly not the right change Edited June 4, 2015 by Twithep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I don't get it. Mercs are losing a heal with a cooldown for a spammable heal. How is that not a buff? AMP is ~6.3k @ 2s cast & 13.5s CD and 20 resource cost MP is ~4.1k @ 1.5s cast & no CD and 20 resource cost They say MP will be reduced in healing so lets say... 3.5-4k when it finally goes live. Being able to HEAL2FULL will be possible once again, an argument which clearly had weight to it. A healing class incapable of healing up was farcical. The less provable argument that the change would still leave mercs with sustainability that sucked was ignored. Mind you when I say HEAL2FULL will be possible.... With a expected heal value of 3.5-4k and a health pool of 54.6k I'd say HEAL2FULL is only marginally less bad after this. Bear in mind that before 3.0 MP was spammable and it was the BIG heal, it's now the SMALL heal so it's doing far less now vs our healthpools than it did then. And for reference, my post of being pissed off about this was the last one on the locked feedback thread on the PTS section to make sure it was visible. So welcome to having a token HEAL2FULL so someone can pretend they addressed our lack of sustainability. Edited June 4, 2015 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diadox Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 In practice there will be very, very few situations where having this spammable heal will be better than having Healing Scan. Rapid Scan is absolute **** in its current iteration, and if I recall correctly the nerf to it was quite significant the first time it was on the pts. Maybe the numbers are different this time around, but even if that is the case (which I doubt) the best case scenario is still losing HS for a slightly nerfed RS, which is still a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Anyone applauding this is out of their mind. Before 3.0, Kolto Bomb in a DPS spec would heal for about 2.5 without a crit. ON FOUR PEOPLE FOR 16 RESOURCES INSTANTLY Then alongside that was: 25 cost spammable cast big heal of Medical Probe for about 4.5k 15 or 16 cost (can't recall) small heal of Advanced Medical Probe for about 3k on a CD And that was when health pools were something like 40k. Now fast forward with 50k+ healthpools its going to be... 20 cost spammable cast small heal of Medical Probe for 3.5-4k 10 cost instant small heal of Bacta Infusion for 4.1k on a CD Welcome to 3.0, where all heals for Mercenaries in dps spec are small and despised. I guess it's balanced by the heavy armour and solid escape/reset tools Mercenaries have. OH WAIT. Edited June 4, 2015 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owynyo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't understand the changes to the merc bodyguard (heal) spec. Why reduce the healing dealt by Rapid Scan? Why reduce the healing dealt by Med Shot? And why buff sorcs at the same time? Mercs already have it rough as heals in solo ranked. Why buff sorcs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeothree Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 AMP is ~6.3k @ 2s cast & 13.5s CD and 20 resource cost MP is ~4.1k @ 1.5s cast & no CD and 20 resource cost They say MP will be reduced in healing so lets say... 3.5-4k when it finally goes live. Being able to HEAL2FULL will be possible once again, an argument which clearly had weight to it. A healing class incapable of healing up was farcical. The less provable argument that the change would still leave mercs with sustainability that sucked was ignored. Mind you when I say HEAL2FULL will be possible.... With a expected heal value of 3.5-4k and a health pool of 54.6k I'd say HEAL2FULL is only marginally less bad after this. Bear in mind that before 3.0 MP was spammable and it was the BIG heal, it's now the SMALL heal so it's doing far less now vs our healthpools than it did then. And for reference, my post of being pissed off about this was the last one on the locked feedback thread on the PTS section to make sure it was visible. So welcome to having a token HEAL2FULL so someone can pretend they addressed our lack of sustainability. So you're crying because you don't have a HEAL2FULL. Will you cry about any buff if it doesn't make you god-mode? And also, who said anything about 50k health pools? Any spammable incombat heal is great for healing between fights to tide you over until you can get out of combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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