Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[StormDragonlord]

Indeed, though if it's something that can't be fixed, I'm afraid my short journey in this amazing world will end. I cannot see myself raiding and doing high level dungeons with this issue, it's just too painful, clunky and slow. Please Bioware just tell us what's going on with this..

[Nightrode]

I feel like if we never get a response to this it's something that's wrong with the game and BioWare will probably pretend like it doesnt exist in order to get as much profit as possible. I have seen this issue be brought time and time again.

[Zalnor]

Played wow for years end game and I knew something was/felt off when I started to play TOR but couldnt narrow it down till I read this then it all made sense and I completely support the cause!

[lethal_ghost]

I feel like if we never get a response to this it's something that's wrong with the game and BioWare will probably pretend like it doesnt exist in order to get as much profit as possible. I have seen this issue be brought time and time again.

 

i have a similar feeling, if this was brought up in beta and it wasnt addressed. And it would have been a hell of alot easier to do it then than now !

Edited December 26, 2011 by lethal_ghost

[Xcore]

I feel like if we never get a response to this it's something that's wrong with the game and BioWare will probably pretend like it doesnt exist in order to get as much profit as possible. I have seen this issue be brought time and time again.

 

Yep, that is why I pulled the prediction of March-June (not fixed) = No Hope for SW:TOR... because basically, once we leave... (gamers) and go back to WoW or wherever we have our attachments its over. Even if it is fixed, no-one will come back to a dead game with a bad reputation.

 

My point is, I created this thread in the hopes that Bioware and EA/LucasArts really care and have invested enough resources to take this seriously and want to fix it, not just milk the subscriptions for 6-12 months then F2P.

 

In any case, a response is required... there is no other way of putting it. Be it positive or negative response, it is at this point required for the evolution and future of this game.

[Tinkersw]

Well written.

 

Its really too frustrating for me to play right now.

I truly hope this is fixed asap.

[Leilei]

Well I played WoW AND CoX and ill have to say that I think the main reason is that these things are because of how they built the animations.

 

Now my opinion of this is...

You guys want instant fps like responses. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

There is nothi g wrong with wantin animations like wow where instacast animations happen instantly and not through the duration of the gcd. Swtor can do that. Try riposte with the jedi knight. What you guys are asking is for stuff to animate like that. Possible but theyre prolly not gn change it.

 

Edit: have you guys tried changing your pace to match the way animations work?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Leilei

[Nightrode]

Yep, that is why I pulled the prediction of March-June (not fixed) = No Hope for SW:TOR... because basically, once we leave... (gamers) and go back to WoW or wherever we have our attachments its over. Even if it is fixed, no-one will come back to a dead game with a bad reputation.

 

My point is, I created this thread in the hopes that Bioware and EA/LucasArts really care and have invested enough resources to take this seriously and want to fix it, not just milk the subscriptions for 6-12 months then F2P.

 

In any case, a response is required... there is no other way of putting it. Be it positive or negative response, it is at this point required for the evolution and future of this game.

 

I feel the same way. Hopefully someone who has knowledge of coding can respond on the issue so we could figure it out.

[Shaz]

I haven't engaged in any PvP yet. I'm not against PvP, I just wanted to really explore the PvE story first before turning my sights to the space game and the PvP game. But even in PvE, I've noticed that combat at times feels... kludgy. Not quite up to par. And it's definitely not FPS or lag related, I know. So I, too, hope this is something that can be tightened up, because even in PvE it's irritating... and I can only imagine how much I'll be irritated in PvP.

[aureliastarr]

The best way for people to understand what OP is talking about is go back in time and play LOTRO before they "TRIED" to fix their combat responsiveness. It's still not great, but it used to be unbelievably awful. Anyone that plays it will suddenly miraculously understand what OP is talking about and then be able to discriminate between why WOW feels different from Rift feels different from SW:TOR. Once you notice it, you will notice why subconsciously certain games just feel more fun.

[lethal_ghost]

Well written.

 

Its really too frustrating for me to play right now.

I truly hope this is fixed asap.

 

I have given up on PVP for the moment and hoping it will be fixed soon, ill just quest and potter about in the mean time

[skodnar]

Maybe its tied to gcd, not sure but it seems to have undergone several changes in beta.

[StormDragonlord]

I haven't engaged in any PvP yet. I'm not against PvP, I just wanted to really explore the PvE story first before turning my sights to the space game and the PvP game. But even in PvE, I've noticed that combat at times feels... kludgy. Not quite up to par. And it's definitely not FPS or lag related, I know. So I, too, hope this is something that can be tightened up, because even in PvE it's irritating... and I can only imagine how much I'll be irritated in PvP.

 

I suggest not even looking at the PvP button, I just tried a Warzone and it is HELL, I don't even know what's going on when there is a cluster of people, it's a giant mess =(.

 

In WoW, (I only played for 1 year 2 years ago) everytime I was in a battle I knew what was going on, but here? It's a mess, I like PvPing from time to time but this is just horrible..

[Daikar]

For the first few days I was forced to play on my laptop and I experienced many of the issues the OP discusses. I was pretty disappointed. But after being able to play on my shiny new gaming desktop all the issues went away. I don't know why, all I know is the game got sooo much better, and now I am completely satisfied.

[DukSaber]

Some great posts here,,I totally agree. Ive played swg and wow. I wish people would listen to what some wow players have to say. Especially the end-game stuff wow is on another level. The thing with wow is they have kept it pretty simple. They havent tried to create everything like swg did. If you try to go toooo big,,then everything will be half completed//buggy//bad. Keep it simple and perfect the important things.

 

Ive said this in other posts but i think its all about the next 6months for TOR. If they dont work their butts off it will be over and too many players will leave. If too many players leave (yes including wow players) then you will have a situation like in swg where nothing was ever fixed or improved because they didnt have the money. To keep the wow players combat pve and pvp needs to be smooth.

[cfsboy]

It isn't so much start up time that I've felt is lagging, rather the finishing window on everything.

 

It's not that first attack that lags, it's that abilities don't smoothly transition into each other, as if the gcd and the attacks themselves are having a disconnect.

 

Well, it's hard to describe but that's been my impression.

 

I agree with this entirely, the class I have found with this is the smuggler. It literally feels like you are fighting your character to get skills off after another skill has been used. I've played a Power Tech and I have found that with skills like Flame Burst and Explosive Dart that the issue is significantly less prominent. However I do believe in contrast to this post that even the animation times on certain skills are annoying. I'm specifically talking about Rail Shot in this case. The animation time on it is a bit an annoyance, and does make it feel like there is a disconnect. It creates a feeling of playing with moderate lag when there is none and makes the experience far less enjoyable.

 

All that being said the potential for the game is unbelievable. We are working with a huge fan base and amazing concepts and I would hate to see it go to waste over something such as this. I strongly recommend that to better the player experience a solution needs to be found.

 

I don't know if this helps but perhaps a speeding up of the animations may help solve the issue?

[Nuara]

I agree, the current state of the game wont hold my attention past the storyline. PvP is a joke and endgame raiding will be a nightmare - its too bad cause I really like the game.

[Nightrode]

I agree with this entirely, the class I have found with this is the smuggler. It literally feels like you are fighting your character to get skills off after another skill has been used. I've played a Power Tech and I have found that with skills like Flame Burst and Explosive Dart that the issue is significantly less prominent. However I do believe in contrast to this post that even the animation times on certain skills are annoying. I'm specifically talking about Rail Shot in this case. The animation time on it is a bit an annoyance, and does make it feel like there is a disconnect. It creates a feeling of playing with moderate lag when there is none and makes the experience far less enjoyable.

 

All that being said the potential for the game is unbelievable. We are working with a huge fan base and amazing concepts and I would hate to see it go to waste over something such as this. I strongly recommend that to better the player experience a solution needs to be found.

 

I don't know if this helps but perhaps a speeding up of the animations may help solve the issue?

 

I think it will definitely make things more apparent. It seems to me that the animations are delaying as well as the actual abilities themselves. The animations should all definitely be instant unless it doesnt affect combat gameplay.

[Leilei]

The best way for people to understand what OP is talking about is go back in time and play LOTRO before they "TRIED" to fix their combat responsiveness. It's still not great, but it used to be unbelievably awful. Anyone that plays it will suddenly miraculously understand what OP is talking about and then be able to discriminate between why WOW feels different from Rift feels different from SW:TOR. Once you notice it, you will notice why subconsciously certain games just feel more fun.

 

Eh...id have to say that the subconsciously feeling whats more fun depends on what you find fun. I liked wowa control but i also liked how city of heroes played. I actually liked city of heroes queue system and how using abilities worked more than wows fps - like system.

 

So i find swtors system better than wows because of that.

 

Like monster hunter vs devil may cry kinda thing.

 

If you want wows combat done better go try champions online. I found that to take the best qualities of wow comba and make it better @_@

 

Now if swtor had champions onlines combat system... That i would say go right ahead and put it in! @_@

[Deakka]

Excellent post, as a former (and current) WoW player, you realize control is key in any MMO. If it feels like you're merely watching your character go through pre-queued motions, then there's something wrong with the system. An example of a game with this crippling issue would be FFXIV. Great premise, amazing graphics... and piss-poor controls. While the delay is less in TOR, you still get that disjointed feeling whenever you hit an ability.

 

Speaking of FFXIV, I've recently resubscribed (I have plenty of disposable income... 3 MMO subscriptions doesn't break the bank hehe) due to the fact that their new team has probably been the most humble, transparent, and hard working group of folks in the MMO business. They've openly admitted to problems, shared future design ideas, and maintain an active presence on their forums. The head designer, Naoki Yoshida is probably the hardest working man in the MMO industry, mainly because he makes frequent forum posts as well as interviews with industry outlets (blogs, magazines etc) to constantly give and take feedback from the community. BioWare could learn a lot from their example. Hopefully ToR doesn't become a train wreck that FFXIV originally was hehe... but if they can handle issues with SE-like opacity, it means great things for this game.

 

Sadly, I've never seen BioWare show that kind of humility, at least not with prior games. If Bioware can address these launch concerns, they'll keep getting 15 bucks a month from me. My money tends to go with companies that understand the gamer mentality and create games that they themselves want to play.

[Xcore]

Eh...id have to say that the subconsciously feeling whats more fun depends on what you find fun. I liked wowa control but i also liked how city of heroes played. I actually liked city of heroes queue system and how using abilities worked more than wows fps - like system.

 

So i find swtors system better than wows because of that.

 

Like monster hunter vs devil may cry kinda thing.

 

If you want wows combat done better go try champions online. I found that to take the best qualities of wow comba and make it better @_@

 

Now if swtor had champions onlines combat system... That i would say go right ahead and put it in! @_@

 

The problem is that SW:TOR is not trying to play differently than WoW... its just buggy. Like an ability happening without is animation. Like an ability's CD going off without the ability actually triggering...

 

All this is very apparent when trying to chain a tight rotation of 5-6 abilities.

[martskre]

Thank you so much for this post, OP!

 

I come from a healer background in World of Warcraft, so I am used to my actions being directly translated by my character. The extra delay in SWTOR breaks chain-casting and fast-casting on multiple targets. The way SWTOR plays at the moment is just unacceptable in a setting where speed and efficiency is required.

 

This really needs to be taken seriously.

Edited December 26, 2011 by martskre

[Seismax]

Well I played WoW AND CoX and ill have to say that I think the main reason is that these things are because of how they built the animations.

 

Now my opinion of this is...

You guys want instant fps like responses. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

There is nothi g wrong with wantin animations like wow where instacast animations happen instantly and not through the duration of the gcd. Swtor can do that. Try riposte with the jedi knight. What you guys are asking is for stuff to animate like that. Possible but theyre prolly not gn change it.

 

Edit: have you guys tried changing your pace to match the way animations work?

 

Damage being tied to the animation isn't what the OP is about. Not directly anyways, it's been guessed that it might be a fault of that implementation.

 

BTW riposte is an excellent example of this problem, despite being off the GCD, it very often will not activate during other skills because of the aforementioned problem.

[Xcore]

Damage being tied to the animation isn't what the OP is about. Not directly anyways, it's been guessed that it might be a fault of that implementation.

 

BTW riposte is an excellent example of this problem, despite being off the GCD, it very often will not activate during other skills because of the aforementioned problem.

 

Absolutely correct about Riposte Seismax, I had a Jedi Knight Guardian at lvl23... it drove me crazy as its basically "Revenge Ability" and very much required for the Tank to be smooth.

[lolsz]

Good post,but have you guys tried 0.0 delay? It fixes alot of the combat problems,and makes combat feel more natural.