mmmbuddah Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Explain to me how your "first hand" testing is going to trump the results of thousands of committed, motivated people banging on each other for weeks/months? And while I'm sure our dev team tests things more than some on this board might suppose, PVP has too many variables for any small group of people to test everything with any degree of reliability. As for "first hand accounts": ask any cop (or scientist) how inconsistent and unreliable those can be... Comprehension skills lacking much? I said first hand experience is better, as in IF THEY TESTED the classes themselves and saw what was lacking and over performing, as in THEY get first hand experience, not me, don't know where you pulled THAT out of, I also said that community input was important too. Leaderboards are NOT the end all win all for balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Comprehension skills lacking much? I said first hand experience is better, as in IF THEY TESTED the classes themselves and saw what was lacking and over performing, as in THEY get first hand experience, not me, don't know where you pulled THAT out of, I also said that community input was important too. Leaderboards are NOT the end all win all for balancing. How would they setup "first hand pvp tests" that produce more accurate results than 1000s of people banging on each other? Or do you think them fighting each other on a dev server would produce anything relevant? They have thousands of points of data collected from real life - with as many variables as pvp has that is much better than anything they can do "first hand" (in less than a couple years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) How would they setup "first hand pvp tests" that produce more accurate results than 1000s of people banging on each other? Or do you think them fighting each other on a dev server would produce anything relevant? They have thousands of points of data collected from real life - with as many variables as pvp has that is much better than anything they can do "first hand" (in less than a couple years). You really are having problems reading what I said aren't you? I said the feedback from the community is also important....twice now. And yes, putting up controlled tests with each class v each class would be a really good thing for them to do. First hand experience is always better than third. People learn more by doing, than reading. Edited March 8, 2015 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You really are having problems reading what I said aren't you? I said the feedback from the community is also important....twice now. And where exactly did I say you said otherwise? The part where you say "Leaderboards are much worse than first hand experience" is the part that I'm arguing with. I could write a book about why BW should take many balance complaints/discussions on this board and others with a grain of salt, but that's another thread and doesn't interest me at all. Your "first hand experience" argument is the one I haven't heard before. And yes, putting up controlled tests with each class v each class would be a really good thing for them to do. First hand experience is always better than third. People learn more by doing, than reading. For 4v4s? Here's a couple math question for you: testing every combination of classes/ACs/specs one time would take how many tests? Assuming each test takes 15 min to setup and execute and log and requires 8 people, how many man hours are you talking about? (I don't have access to a math calculator but your result should be well over 6 figures). And that doesn't take into consideration that testers may not be the best at using whatever class/spec they're thrown into for 15 min. Note also that they would have to do more than one run with each combination to approach any sort of comprehensive validity. And remember these testers will be getting old towards the end of this study so they won't necessarily be as spry as the target market for this game and their results might become less useful. But even then, devs would not be getting results first hand unless you want them to do all the testing. I'm warning you tho - software devs in general are usually horrible at testing their own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) As I said in another post, to have changing FOTM classes and to avoid balance that goes through all ACs seems to be a business model of this game. BW seems to be preparing the new PvP FOTM just in time for when they nerf back VG/PTs and Assa/Shadows. There's no other convincing reason (not even a PvE one) for giving Juggs/Guards, including DPSers, an even more improved H2F passive. Juggs/Guards will have 5 lives and I'm not talking about tanks here. This will put them in a position to skank tank according to need while outputting more than decent DPS and living forever. Be prepared to play PvP matches as exciting as watching paint dry. Edited March 9, 2015 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerSchneider Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 As I said in another post, to have changing FOTM classes and to avoid balance that goes through all ACs seems to be a business model of this game. BW seems to be preparing the new PvP FOTM just in time for when they nerf back VG/PTs and Assa/Shadows. There's no other convincing reason (not even a PvE one) for giving Juggs/Guards, including DPSers, an even more improved H2F passive. Juggs/Guards will have 5 lives and I'm not talking about tanks here. This will put them in a position to skank tank according to need while outputting more than decent DPS and living forever. Be prepared to play PvP matches as exciting as watching paint dry. Didn't know bioware made a pocket healer ability for juggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 As I said in another post, to have changing FOTM classes and to avoid balance that goes through all ACs seems to be a business model of this game. BW seems to be preparing the new PvP FOTM just in time for when they nerf back VG/PTs and Assa/Shadows. There's no other convincing reason (not even a PvE one) for giving Juggs/Guards, including DPSers, an even more improved H2F passive. Juggs/Guards will have 5 lives and I'm not talking about tanks here. This will put them in a position to skank tank according to need while outputting more than decent DPS and living forever. Be prepared to play PvP matches as exciting as watching paint dry. Oh, just shut up already. You know what I thought when I saw I was getting two extra healing stacks? "Great, now I'll go from the guy who usually dies last to the guy who always dies last." We don't do enough damage or have enough mobility to keep up with most of the other specs. If the mara buffs are even remotely effective we get to look forward to being dead last for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarnestBunbury Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Really no use playing some of these classes and certainly some specs in pvp. Shooting a jugg at FIVE percent health and then in an instant he was at full HP. You just stop dps'ing at that point. Also, this stealth/burst dps/able to leave combat garbage is too much but add to it the stuns and the ability to take you down to 1/3 health before you can even pop a cooldown is even harder to take. It is apparent, from the class balance and from the laughable twitch streams from the devs, that no one receiving a paycheck from EA/Ware is playing in Pee Vee Pee on anything resembling a regular basis. Look at the Arena WZ selection process and you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Really no use playing some of these classes and certainly some specs in pvp. Shooting a jugg at FIVE percent health and then in an instant he was at full HP. You just stop dps'ing at that point. Also, this stealth/burst dps/able to leave combat garbage is too much but add to it the stuns and the ability to take you down to 1/3 health before you can even pop a cooldown is even harder to take. It is apparent, from the class balance and from the laughable twitch streams from the devs, that no one receiving a paycheck from EA/Ware is playing in Pee Vee Pee on anything resembling a regular basis. Look at the Arena WZ selection process and you know that. Way to necro a three month old thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 i'm down with the necro just to say i don't understand why bioware keeps giving skills that should be tank only available to dps. i wouldn't have a problem with juggs doing more dps, but i cannot stand the recent trend of giving melee dps immunities and h2f talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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