Juggernauts/Guardians Heal Buff in 3.1.2

[hallucigenocide]

We.Have.5.charges of absorb, guardians have MUCH more, even if they do less damage, there was no need to make them have 2 or 3 lives.

perhaps not.. i'd rather see a slight increase in damage tbh.

[DarthOvertone]

perhaps not.. i'd rather see a slight increase in damage tbh.

 

I would prefer to see some added mobility on my Guardian.

[clearsighted]

They do now have 12 stacks of selfheal instead of 10 in 3.1.2 patch.

 

Is this good and needed for Juggernaut/Guardian damage dealers or tanks? Why do you guys think BioWare made this change, were they a little squishy? Are Marauder/Sentinel way too overpowered so they felt Juggernauts/Guardians needed something to balance those differences out?

 

Plz feel free to discuss this matter with me.

 

3.1.2 Patch (mined data I found on reddit, legit source): http://torcommunity.com/database/update-previews/380-3-1-2-pts-update-2-mined

 

It was to give them added protection against rampant and very powerful dot attacks. But it's still only once every 2 minutes.

[clearsighted]

That is entirely another thing and a little false to be honest. Good players play a class you need to be good for, and when you master current #1 FOTM class which is Shadow/Assassin you are a MONSTER TRUCK. While some players chose to play Juggernaut because it's their main, or it's easy to play, they will never carry a team, nor will they therefor get good ratings.

 

LOL. Playing a good juggernaut is way harder than playing a good PT or Shadow. Dot dot fib, run and hide. What's so hard about that??

Edited March 7, 2015 by clearsighted

[skarlson]

LOL. Playing a good juggernaut is way harder than playing a good PT or Shadow. Dot dot fib, run and hide. What's so hard about that??

 

Not a question of ease of play. Question is ease of surviving to do your job. This is a survival change on a class no one picks to kill first regardless of spec because they have ZERO survivability issues; quite the opposite, they are a pita to kill.

[clearsighted]

Not a question of ease of play. Question is ease of surviving to do your job. This is a survival change on a class no one picks to kill first regardless of spec because they have ZERO survivability issues; quite the opposite, they are a pita to kill.

 

All I see in this thread is powertechs and shadows b/tching.

 

Also? Operatives are shadows are more often the last killed. They get to start in stealth, and they have combat stealth.

 

Sorcs have barrier, which is a massive pain in arena and far more powerful than anything the juggs have.

 

Killing juggernauts is easy. They have their one ED, which is currently gone in a mere 10 seconds, and then all you need to do is dot them and watch them die. I've been in many arenas, with 3-4 shadows on the other team, and there's nothing I can do about my inevitable death, except do as much damage while I'm alive.

 

The increase to 15 seconds and 12 uses was to give them more sustainability against dots.

 

The faux-outrage in this thread is disgusting, and it's coming mostly from shadow/sins who think their class is SO hard to play. It's NOT. It has more survivability and more damage than anyone else.

 

Anyone that has actually played arena will know that sins/shadows and operatives are ALWAYS the last survivors, unless they suck. Especially in 4 DPS vs 4 DPS games, the jugg dying is just not a matter of time, as the dots will run him down eventually. Whereas ops/sins can keep cleansing them.

 

Sorcs are next, because of their barrier and self-healing.

 

Powertechs put out a LOT more burst than juggs, and are more survivable. They have an ED-like ability, and are the best kiting class in the game by far. A great powertech can have a field day with a jugg, in the 10-15m range, slowing him and superspeeding about. It's only the crap powertechs that die more easily.

 

I have a powertech and a jugg, and my powertech can literally not lose to any melee class.

Edited March 7, 2015 by clearsighted

[Savej]

The devs test out ALL classes themselves, and you know, do their jobs. First hand experience is better than second or third hand, which is what the leader boards are. Yes community feedback is important, but going soley off of leader boards is the VERY lazy approach.

 

Explain to me how your "first hand" testing is going to trump the results of thousands of committed, motivated people banging on each other for weeks/months? And while I'm sure our dev team tests things more than some on this board might suppose, PVP has too many variables for any small group of people to test everything with any degree of reliability. As for "first hand accounts": ask any cop (or scientist) how inconsistent and unreliable those can be...

Edited March 7, 2015 by Savej

[Herocross]

It's absolutely the most easy class to play. Good Guardians will always outplay bad ones, but when it comes to damage it's just who is the quickest retard. Spamming same skills over and over and get autocrit on blade storm/force scream and resetproc on dispatch/vicious throw with a Master Strike/Ravage reset on 1 skill hit lol. Also you heal yourself for up to 80k after this patch on 1 ability use, just hilarious.

 

People who play Guardian/Juggernauts are players who are complete failures as Sentinel/Marauders in current state of the game.

 

lol so mad... cry a little more, I need some salt to cook. Probably sad because Mara/Sent isn't no.1 anymore, huh?

 

CLEARLY every single human that plays a Juggernaut in this game sucks and only chose the class because it's so easy. I'll just play my Marauder tank... wait It's probably always been the other way around, since Jugg DPS was actually harder to play than Mara/Sent because their defenses were crap against GbtF/Rebuke/Force Camo, but yeah... every Jugg player is a complete retard who's just clicking and backpedaling his way to the top of the leaderboards... wait²

 

But this post shows *** is wrong with this community: All these years people complained about Smashtards and now that they're gone and something else is fotm/op, that's somehow way worse than Smash was and everything else is SO FKING BROKEN (80k selfheal with 1 ability!!!!!111 cmon dude be serious 2 charges more OBVIOUSLY result in ~2x heal... such a joke). Srsly a top contender for the post of the year awards in the category "most butthurt crybabies"

Edited March 7, 2015 by Herocross

[WannEras]

Focused defence getting buffed again? Makes no sense... This class is one of the only ones that can actually look after themselves in arenas with players that contribute nothing in the way of team survivability.

 

I was pretty gob smacked when they initially changed focused defence, it was quite powerful before the change, just that it required more than simply pressing a button to reap the full benefits of it.

 

It was originally a 3% heal per second for 10 seconds as long as you took damage (hello DOTs) with a 45 second cool down, but each heal cost 1 focus. For vigilance trees it also had the current enure damage reduction buff attached to it. I used to get more healing per warzone than the current FD, the main thing people didn't do was save combat focus and pop it with FD to solve the focus cost problem (used to see lots of Juggs/Guardians with like 20k max heals on the scoreboard, they were quite simply not keeping their focus up when the ability was active). So back in the old days you had a 15% damage reduction buff that lasted 10 seconds and a 30%heal (10-15k depending on if you popped the 1 min 30 enure with it), all with a 45 second cool down, not bad at all really.

 

Like normal, Bioware took a huge leap when redesigning focused defence, rather than taking things one step at a time to avoid creating a new ez-mode FOTM class. They should have started off by removing the focus cost, and upping the heal to 5% instead of 3%, rather than the current ability we have which has the potential for 10 x 5k heals in one global cool down.

[DerSchneider]

Focused defence getting buffed again? Makes no sense... This class is one of the only ones that can actually look after themselves in arenas with players that contribute nothing in the way of team survivability.

 

I was pretty gob smacked when they initially changed focused defence, it was quite powerful before the change, just that it required more than simply pressing a button to reap the full benefits of it.

 

It was originally a 3% heal per second for 10 seconds as long as you took damage (hello DOTs) with a 45 second cool down, but each heal cost 1 focus. For vigilance trees it also had the current enure damage reduction buff attached to it. I used to get more healing per warzone than the current FD, the main thing people didn't do was save combat focus and pop it with FD to solve the focus cost problem (used to see lots of Juggs/Guardians with like 20k max heals on the scoreboard, they were quite simply not keeping their focus up when the ability was active). So back in the old days you had a 15% damage reduction buff that lasted 10 seconds and a 30%heal (10-15k depending on if you popped the 1 min 30 enure with it), all with a 45 second cool down, not bad at all really.

 

Like normal, Bioware took a huge leap when redesigning focused defence, rather than taking things one step at a time to avoid creating a new ez-mode FOTM class. They should have started off by removing the focus cost, and upping the heal to 5% instead of 3%, rather than the current ability we have which has the potential for 10 x 5k heals in one global cool down.

 

Play ranked on a decent pvp server with this "ez mode fotm class", especially versus 3-4 hatred team and then show me your experience.

[WannEras]

Come on, read man... I am saying that Guardian became FOTM ez-mode when they initially changed FD, which it was, it's not the same situation now, I am just highlighting how Bioware tend to make massive design changes without properly thinking things through. At the time the state of other classes were very different to what they are now, and I can assure you that it was very much considered "ez-mode" and a ridiculous amount of people re-rolled to it.

 

Any class can get absolutely annihilated depending on group composition and tactics used, but in general guardians are near the top in terms of survivability.

 

I agree with you, three hatreds focusing any class in ranked will make a mess, but that's another story, and hopefully one that will change in an upcoming patch.

Edited March 7, 2015 by WannEras

[ToMyMa]

lol so mad... cry a little more, I need some salt to cook. Probably sad because Mara/Sent isn't no.1 anymore, huh?

 

CLEARLY every single human that plays a Juggernaut in this game sucks and only chose the class because it's so easy. I'll just play my Marauder tank... wait It's probably always been the other way around, since Jugg DPS was actually harder to play than Mara/Sent because their defenses were crap against GbtF/Rebuke/Force Camo, but yeah... every Jugg player is a complete retard who's just clicking and backpedaling his way to the top of the leaderboards... wait²

 

But this post shows *** is wrong with this community: All these years people complained about Smashtards and now that they're gone and something else is fotm/op, that's somehow way worse than Smash was and everything else is SO FKING BROKEN (80k selfheal with 1 ability!!!!!111 cmon dude be serious 2 charges more OBVIOUSLY result in ~2x heal... such a joke). Srsly a top contender for the post of the year awards in the category "most butthurt crybabies"

 

Uhh, Manni usually mains either his sniper or gunslinger, so I'd say he's rather viable to make these comments.

[clearsighted]

Play ranked on a decent pvp server with this "ez mode fotm class", especially versus 3-4 hatred team and then show me your experience.

 

Exactly. The only people complaining are those who have never experienced ranked as a jugg. But I think most of us know the real reason they're complaining is to deflect attention from their own OP classes getting the shaft in 3.1.2.

[clearsighted]

Exactly. The only people complaining are those who have never experienced ranked as a jugg. But I think most of us know the real reason they're complaining is to deflect attention from their own OP classes getting the shaft in 3.1.2.

 

Come on, read man... I am saying that Guardian became FOTM ez-mode when they initially changed FD, which it was, it's not the same situation now, I am just highlighting how Bioware tend to make massive design changes without properly thinking things through. At the time the state of other classes were very different to what they are now, and I can assure you that it was very much considered "ez-mode" and a ridiculous amount of people re-rolled to it.

 

Any class can get absolutely annihilated depending on group composition and tactics used, but in general guardians are near the top in terms of survivability.

 

I agree with you, three hatreds focusing any class in ranked will make a mess, but that's another story, and hopefully one that will change in an upcoming patch.

 

You're just sounding like a moron by claiming two more tics of ED makes anything 'FOTM EZ-MODE'. What a loaded term.

 

As someone who has played every class in the game to 50+, I find powertechs, sorcs and sins all easier to play in pvp than juggernauts.

 

Those classes which are harder than juggs in pvp (like snipers or mercs in ranked), have it much easier in pve (as all ranged classes do over melees).

 

Marauders might have a legitimate grievance. They should get force push. But I'm not inconsolable for them. I've taken 3 guardians/juggs to 50+, and for the vast majority of my three years playing swtor, maras were way more OP than juggs.

Edited March 7, 2015 by clearsighted

[Darth__Reaver]

Was in an arena match yesterday and watched a Jugg out self-heal a Merc's self healing lol.

Daheck?

I commented to the Merc about it and he/she didn't seem to shocked by it at all, in fact quite the opposite.

 

Ya we've been seeing this for a very very long time now... Nothing new.

[Xertasian]

people here crying always about classes..juggs are not hard to beat people want to hit on them during enrage defense is active you deserve to take it up the but...instead of stunning or simply kiting him off for the 10-12 seconds until it over..then the jugg is going down..

 

this can be said for countering any class..hatred sins for example they are not totally op..weakness they have a lil ramp up time before they get things rolling..in the short time people dont know how to take advantage..snipers if people know how to root, immoblize and roll nothing will kill a sniper hardly..

 

maras, carnage and anni kind of crappy..but fury if you know how to play it correctly closes the gap for the class..you can stick on a target with 2 force jumps that will even hit a sniper in cover..2 attacks that hits hard ,they got a vanish a dcd that you can keep up..still the sleeper class is the concealment ops if anybody say they are weak you really underestimating the class..

 

lot of the complaints on the forums at least 99% of them is from people who lose or dont know how to counter the class..this is how we get all the whack forum post..no class is truly op it's the player behind the class..even if bioware was to magically fix every class for pvp..they still cant fix a bad player..

 

people hate to lose but more admit the reason why they lost was because of there skills not the classes being op..mercs i might can give a lil argument about needing help..still when played correctly they are beast..i seen mercs in rank get off on sins and other "FOTM" classes..that was the player skill not the class.

[Herocross]

Uhh, Manni usually mains either his sniper or gunslinger, so I'd say he's rather viable to make these comments.

 

Well, that's even more sad then lol... As Sniper you shouldn't really have troubles with Juggs/Maras AT ALL lmao. Sure, 2 Stacks more will help every Jugg beat a decent Sniper when they can't even get to them!

 

Doesn't matter what class is played, those two stacks WILL NOT BE GAMEBREAKING by any means, let's be real here...

[ToMyMa]

Well, that's even more sad then lol... As Sniper you shouldn't really have troubles with Juggs/Maras AT ALL lmao. Sure, 2 Stacks more will help every Jugg beat a decent Sniper when they can't even get to them!

 

Doesn't matter what class is played, those two stacks WILL NOT BE GAMEBREAKING by any means, let's be real here...

 

You seem to think that solo ranked is 1v1.

 

It is not. And guess what class is the most played on ToFN in solo ranked as of now? Yeah, you know which class that is. You know what the spec is. And when a jugg is paired with one, or several, of those classes, the h2f is Ez-mode.

[Anishor]

I suspect it's a combination of PVE and the fact they're not nerfing DOT spreading/dmg from Madness/Hatred.

 

PS, Merc off healing is bad. Compare it to Sorc or Operative off heals. So using that to say omg look at juggs is a bit of a red herring.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Anishor

[Grue_Hunter]

They do now have 12 stacks of selfheal instead of 10 in 3.1.2 patch.

 

Is this good and needed for Juggernaut/Guardian damage dealers or tanks? Why do you guys think BioWare made this change, were they a little squishy? Are Marauder/Sentinel way too overpowered so they felt Juggernauts/Guardians needed something to balance those differences out?

 

Plz feel free to discuss this matter with me.

 

3.1.2 Patch (mined data I found on reddit, legit source): http://torcommunity.com/database/update-previews/380-3-1-2-pts-update-2-mined

 

Well, they now self heal better than my old Shadow/Sin tanks could (Dang! I miss that ability.)

[MotorCityMan]

The devs noticed that enraged defense wasn't always a H2F, so they made sure it would be.

 

This ^^^.

 

 

There is no point in thinking that the people they have working on pvp understand what is taking place in warzones. Just roll a class that the cheesiness works for and derp.

[WannEras]

You're just sounding like a moron by claiming two more tics of ED makes anything 'FOTM EZ-MODE'. What a loaded term.

 

Another person with exceptional reading skills.

[Helig]

People who play Guardian/Juggernauts are players who are complete failures as Sentinel/Marauders in current state of the game.

You're just sore that Juggs became the Warrior flagship class in 3.0. I play since release, and Guardian and Marauder are my oldest mains that I'm running to the present day. The two are very different classes, and some of your statements regarding them (like the one quoted above) in this thread look plain juvenile.

 

Mars need buffs, but you really have your blaming priorities all messed up.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Helig

[Herocross]

You seem to think that solo ranked is 1v1.

 

It is not. And guess what class is the most played on ToFN in solo ranked as of now? Yeah, you know which class that is. You know what the spec is. And when a jugg is paired with one, or several, of those classes, the h2f is Ez-mode.

 

Alright, but does it make the Jugg OP? I really don't think so, certain comps have always been stronger than others and some classes just generally have advantages in a deathmatch 4v4 environment over others BUT it's not like the PvP community pointed that out when Arenas were on the PTS and BW got rid of 8v8 ranked (where most classes were useful in one way or another) and it's certainly not the Juggernauts/Guardians that push other classes out of being viable... It's like saying that a bad player gets carried by a strong 3man premade all day and the only reason they win is because of the one bad player - which really doesn't make any sense or: When classXY is paired with one, or several, of those classes, the game is ez-mode. That doesn't make classXY op...

 

I just wanted to point out that these ridicolous exaggerations are so full of salt and misinformation (80k selfheal with 1 activation, ...) and I guarantee that this buff will not have the huge impact he's making it out to and doesn't deserve the attention it gets here. It's a minor buff, yea, but as stated before, it's nothing to cry and whine about...

[MotorCityMan]

Being able to heal to full is ridiculous when compared to what most other classes have. They should give that same ability to the other classes, then we can all agree it isn't OP.