Flysparks Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I stood in line at Gamestop and bought the collector's edition of this game. I quit playing when I grew dissatisfied--a topic deserving of it's own thread. I've returned because of my love for Star Wars and for story driven gaming. I'm an avid PvPer. The character this thread is stemming from has 8 days of logged time and a full set of lvl 50 epic PvP gear. In the first warzone I played upon my return I felt very fragile and ineffective in battles. After a handful more it became apparent something wasn't right. Come to find out, my full set of epic lvl 50 PvP gear is entirely worthless now due to the bolstering system. As I understand it, because this gear has expertise on it the bolstering system doesn't add any, leaving me dead in the water to even level 30s. Several hours and more than a hundred thousand credits later, I may be able to have some fun in warzones again. This entire experience has been outrageous, discouraging me from wanting to play. It's a quintessential flaw of SWToR. Suggestion: Don't require veteran players to buy all new equipment to be competitive in [edit] low level, bolstered [edit] warzones. Don't greet returning players with a situation that reminds them of the negative qualities that encouraged them to leave originally. Don't give players reason to not play your game. Thanks for the welcome back, Bioware and EA. Edited March 5, 2015 by Flysparks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNORTH Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Your gear would be more than enough to run lvl 50 dailys, as well start Makeb for an entire brand new set of proper epic gear. Maybe be a little pro active instead of dumping on how its EA and Biowares fault you couldn't PvP with an entire outdated set of gear, Entitlement is a terrible issue these days. If you did a little bit of reading you might of found it pretty easy to get going again! i don't see that bioware or EA is the issue here. GL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangiban Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Would you rather the gear curve not change at all? New content emerges and new gear often comes with it. When Black Hole & EC got added the tier rose from 140 to 150. With 2.0 from 150 to 174. With Oricon & DF/DP, from 174 to 186. With 3.0 from 186 to 198. If you think the gear tiers will stay exactly as they are and that top of the line gear 3 years ago will still hold up, you are severely mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm an avid PvPer. Found your problem. This game is all about story and voice acting. The rest is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flysparks Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Sorry. Perhaps the grievance wasn't clear. A level 30 with green gear should not be bolstered more effectively than a returning level 50 with a full set of epic PvP gear. That doesn't make sense. It is not defendable. It is a problem whose blame lies entirely upon the developers and executors of SWtOR. To accuse me of entitlement is silly. I'm not suggesting someone in level 50 champions gear should be any better off than other bolstered PvPers. I'm not asking that my past hours of play be rewarded. I'm merely drawing attention to the fact that players who geared for PvP at lvl 50 are now actually worse off than all other bolstered players (including a level 10) and *must* replace every piece of gear that has expertise in order to compete. A player 20 levels lower in all greens with empty slots is *much* stronger than someone in full champions gear. That's ridiculous. For a game with 8 servers and a struggling population, this issue should be concerning. To expect a returning player to dig in the forums for hours and browse a starving galactic trade network for gear is folly. It's enough to discourage the returning players this game needs so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Your gear would be more than enough to run lvl 50 dailys, as well start Makeb for an entire brand new set of proper epic gear. Maybe be a little pro active instead of dumping on how its EA and Biowares fault you couldn't PvP with an entire outdated set of gear, Entitlement is a terrible issue these days. If you did a little bit of reading you might of found it pretty easy to get going again! i don't see that bioware or EA is the issue here. GL /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flysparks Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 If you think the gear tiers will stay exactly as they are and that top of the line gear 3 years ago will still hold up, you are severely mistaken. I don't understand how you extrapolated this from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't understand how you extrapolated this from the OP. Suggestion: Don't require veteran players to buy all new equipment to be competitive in [edit] low level, bolstered [edit] warzones. I don't understand for the life of me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtJeremy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Found your problem. This game is all about story and voice acting. The rest is secondary. Unfortunately this. If you like PvP there are other games that actually do it right and care about it and it's community. Swtor is not one such game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filmoret Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Your gear would be more than enough to run lvl 50 dailys, as well start Makeb for an entire brand new set of proper epic gear. Maybe be a little pro active instead of dumping on how its EA and Biowares fault you couldn't PvP with an entire outdated set of gear, Entitlement is a terrible issue these days. If you did a little bit of reading you might of found it pretty easy to get going again! i don't see that bioware or EA is the issue here. GL Can anyone say Troll. Yea man they made some elementary mistakes and don't realize they will soon be jobless because of it. If you think that's bad look at the current leaderboards. 6 out of 8 classes are imbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Can anyone say Troll. Yea man they made some elementary mistakes and don't realize they will soon be jobless because of it. If you think that's bad look at the current leaderboards. 6 out of 8 classes are imbalanced. Class balance is not the issue here. At the most, the bolster system would be, but that would be stretching it. And yes, balance IS horrible at the moment but that's got nothing to do with the player not wanting to gear "up" and thinking his Champion gear will provide him the same leverage now as it did 2 years ago. Heck, it wasn't even top tier at the time! Edited March 5, 2015 by Yojiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNORTH Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Can anyone say Troll. Yea man they made some elementary mistakes and don't realize they will soon be jobless because of it. If you think that's bad look at the current leaderboards. 6 out of 8 classes are imbalanced. Righhht, it's all Bioware and EA's fault he can't get new gear with a bit of effort.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llayles Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Found your problem. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 How is you coming back and trying to PVP with OUTDATED gear instead of doing some work for the newer gear before trying to PVP EA/BW's fault? I would have considered this a valid argument if you were a lvl 60 with top of the line gear and you got your *** handed to you by a lvl 30 but as it stands now your argument isn't valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flysparks Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 ... the player not wanting to gear "up" and thinking his Champion gear will provide him the same leverage now as it did 2 years ago. I already addressed this. Apparently I need to address it again. ----I don't expect lvl 50 PvP gear to provide any leverage in bolstered PvP.---- Let's consider why the bolstering system is in effect. It's sole purpose is to equalize the stats of differently geared and leveled players, allowing them to effectively PvP. This systems very concept and existence allows players to not gear up for low level PvP. Pay attention, this part's important: ***A level 10 with SEVEN empty item slots bolsters better than a returning level 50 with some of the best PvP gear available at launch*** (Specifically, the level 10 had over 1000 expertise while the level 50 had only in the 700s). . This situation is contradictory to the bolstering system itself. The fact that the gear is outdated should not be considered. If a level 10 is not required to fill the 7 empty slots in their gear before participating in PvP then a returning player should not be required to replace all 14 item slots before participating. Suggestion: Design he bolstering system where a player with 14 full item slots bolsters at least as good as someone with 7 full, 7 empty. Suggestion: Find a solution to the way gear with expertise bolsters compared to how gear without expertise or empty slots bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Sorry. Perhaps the grievance wasn't clear. A level 30 with green gear should not be bolstered more effectively than a returning level 50 with a full set of epic PvP gear. That doesn't make sense. It is not defendable. It is a problem whose blame lies entirely upon the developers and executors of SWtOR. For a game with 8 servers and a struggling population, this issue should be concerning. To expect a returning player to dig in the forums for hours and browse a starving galactic trade network for gear is folly. It's enough to discourage the returning players this game needs so badly. Of course the blame is with Bioware, but they don't care. Bolster has been broken for a long time and it isn't getting fixed. What would solve your problem, and it has been suggested many times by better players than me, is that Bolster should have a simple baseline stat that it raises everyone to who is below it. Since you're below lvl 60 PvP gear, you should be raised to that, same as the lvl 30, completely ignoring your existing armor. It will never happen, welcome back to SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filmoret Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Class balance is not the issue here. At the most, the bolster system would be, but that would be stretching it. And yes, balance IS horrible at the moment but that's got nothing to do with the player not wanting to gear "up" and thinking his Champion gear will provide him the same leverage now as it did 2 years ago. Heck, it wasn't even top tier at the time! Let me explain a little. He's mad because his gear he worked soo hard to get 2 years ago is actually worse then having no gear at all. He didn't expect to be top tier he just expected to be better then a brand new 50 who just got on the scene. Which explains why he says don't punish returning players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemattson Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Let me explain a little. He's mad because his gear he worked soo hard to get 2 years ago is actually worse then having no gear at all. He didn't expect to be top tier he just expected to be better then a brand new 50 who just got on the scene. Which explains why he says don't punish returning players. Glad I'm not the only other person on this thread who gets what the OP was saying. Back when I came back for the RotHC expansion, I saw this a lot. I didn't personally experience it, as I didn't PvP at all when the game first started, but you'd see 55s pretty frequently who seemed to know what they were doing, operationally-speaking, but who were just flailing away completely ineffectively and getting curb stomped. I'd always think, "Yeah, you have full Battlemaster gear on, don't you?" Back on point, though; yes, I do think it was pretty stupid of Bioware to change everything up like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) /thread /thread Back on point, though; yes, I do think it was pretty stupid of Bioware to change everything up like that. Yeah, TOR is the first MMO to ever re-vamp gear and make new tiers when they add new levels and new endgame quests and raids. Edited March 6, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky-Fast-Slash Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I would have agreed with him, except for the fact the game gives you a pop up telling you that your old gear is garbage when you enter a war-zone. The reason you don't bolster is because your old set has expertise in it which confuses the bolster, as the total amount of expertise changed by a lot but the game does not recognize that fact. It just sees That your gear has Expertise so it does not need a bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah, TOR is the first MMO to ever re-vamp gear and make new tiers when they add new levels and new endgame quests and raids. Self-entitled players will burn anything and any game at the stake for whatever reason they want. Logic is irrelevant. Gear Revamp? Level cap increase that will impact pvp bracets?What's that? I DEMAND MY OUTDATED GEAR IGNORE THE NEW MECHANICS BECAUSE I SAY SO! *Burns a Dev* Edited March 6, 2015 by Yojiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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