12 x XP for class-missions

[FAAmecanic]

If your only concern is to bypass the planet side quests, then by your own admission, there already exist multiple ways to accomplish this goal and a 12XP boost is not needed.

 

 

You are correct..... but you are twisting my words. Why is one way valid, to bypass the planet missions with the intention of doing only the Story Line missions, and the other way not valid.

[Liquor]

Ill answer it....

 

And not because I feel entitled or that Im an elitist, I have done the planet quests 10 times already (6 on Imp side and 4 on Pub). I would like to just see the Story without breaks in-between that ruin the continuity of the story for me.

 

And I will say again...whats the difference if I get a 12x XP boost to do this, or I just BUY XP boosts for Space On Rails, GSF and/or PvP until I hit Level 50 ...then go do my storyline missions? Either way I bypass the planet quests.

yep, I pvp so I can go through the story missions all at once after I hit 50. i didn't need a x12 XP boost to do so. it really didn't take long at all. though pvp is slower than doing pve planetary missions.

 

NO, its about leveling quickly by choosing to do just ONE aspect of the game. Should I get 12x EXP for just doing Heroic 4's because I only want the 'tough' content?

 

Should I get 12x EXP only doing Space Rails Shooter Missions because I don't like anything else?

 

Should I get 12x EXP for just playing GSF?

 

Should I get 12X EXP for JUST queueing WZ's?

 

 

Answer for each of these is NO. You just want a fast lane to doing the content you want to do and this means you want a fastlane for getting experience. You want to get everything you want and you don't want to give up anything in doing it.

 

How about once a Character accepts the 12x EXP boost for class Missions they are forbidden from all FP's, Ops and WZ/GSF type content?

 

You do not deserve a fastlane just because you have done something before. You do not deserve to get to do ONLY what you want in game and level at an accelerated rate.

 

If you can not see how this creates potential problems for the game, you're blind. They have been pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES.

 

 

Just a smattering of them include:

 

1 - Creates an even wider leveling tier between classes of players.

F2P/Preferred/SUB already created a tiering of the player base and this would increase that gulf but it would mean even Subs have a potential tiered leveling process. There is no justification for this and would be damaging socially to the game. It creates an 'unequal' society in game where those who have get rewarded more than those who do not have yet. You may think 'social' drawbacks are minor but I assure you, they are not. They damage the 'feel' of the game, create resentments amongst the playerbase and do damage to long term player engagement (read profit for the game runners is reduced)

 

 

2 - Creates the ability for players to very quickly and easily exploit FOTM classes/Builds doing damage to the game play experience of everyone (PVP, PVE, Etc)

If you can choose some 'optional' setting that gives you a huge speed boost to getting your character up to max levels, you can easily exploit broken things in game. This makes the play experience for everyone poor at those max levels AND creates undue pressure on the devs in having to fix things entirely too fast and I assure you, fixes made in haste generally introduce other issues.

 

 

3 - It further damages the community. If this idea is as popular as it seems to be, then many many people will take advantage of it.

By taking advantage of it already damaged/barren lower level content becomes even more damaged/barren because people are skipping it. When they are skipping it _EVERY_ player who does not have the 12x bonus and is bound to complete this content to advance has a much rougher game experience because they do not have the social network available to assist them in enjoying the game through its progression. This harms the engagement of new players. When you disengage NEW players your community stagnates and recedes. This spells for a slow death spiral for the game. something I would rather not happen.

 

 

4 - Back on another theme, rewarding the rich with more riches.

It is _ALREADY_ a huge advantage to have a legacy and existing characters of higher levels. With my 22 characters I have in game the vast majority are all over level 55. Whenever I start a new character they are outfitted with the very best gear available. With legacy gear I can pass it around without worries so the characters are doing content designed for players with green/blue drops and I am doing it with Purple tuned equipment and can blow right through it. I am able to solo heroic 4's levels above my current level as I + my well geared companion with a huge Presence bonus are more than enough to take on anything not game system limited. With my Level 50 legacy that I have had for years.. I can purchase unlocks for experience and make everything go so much faster as well. I generally don't because its already super fast. So your suggestion, especially as tied to a 'legacy unlock' essentially says we're going to reward the rich with more riches. This is a very poor model for any social construct. heaping rewards on those who are already advantaged damages all those who are not.

 

 

5 - While the 'Slippery Slope' argument is generally a logical fallacy,

what you gain by 12x EXP for doing just what you want opens up the floodgates of requests from other people to get 12X Xp for doing just what they want. In the end it comes down to, well damn how come when I log in I am not automatically level 50???? This is stupid! I quit unless you automatically give me everything I want!

 

 

When you are making a suggestion for the change to the status quo you have a burden to prove that this change would be benefical to the whole.

Not just to yourself and those other people who are like minded. No one has presented an argument that shows how this makes the game better for _everyone_. In fact, most of you recognize the patent ridiculous nature of your request because you feel the need to justify it with some sort of requirement before you can get it. If you acknowledge that its such a huge boon that it should be locked behind a gateway you acknowledge that it is likely too much power to begin with. And if you think about this.. if it is locked behind an achievement, every person who hasn't gotten this achievement is _acknowledged_ by you to have an inferior experience.

 

 

So if your whines are about being 'made to grind' why is it you deserve to NOT grind while other people have to grind? What? You've done it before? Well damn,

I have been playing MMORPG's since before there were 3D graphics cards or even graphics that were not ANSI/ASCII generated and I have reached max level and ground since DIKU and LP Muds so I deserve to automatically get what I want in every subsequent game ever because I've put in my time, I deserve it! I am a special and unique snowflake who deserves to ride in the clouds above everyone else because I've put in my time! This is a game after all and if I have to work at it, its not fun!

 

 

Entitled much?

 

No.

This is a completely unnecessary addition and holds too many social and quantifiable drawbacks. Its a shame they used this mechanism to sell an expansion because all it has done is open the floodgates for the selfish, self important and entitled to demand that they get it constantly because they somehow deserve a game breaking mechanism because they want it.

 

 

You want it, you PROVE per your burden of proof as the presenter of a proposition how this will make the game better.

And when someone argues with you about your suppositions about making it better, or point out that your argument how it is better is that YOU and other people who meet your criteria get what you want, while you put in place restrictions on the rest of the 'hoi paloi' recognize right there... YOU are basically telling other people they HAVE to do something you don't want to do and you think you should get a special perk allowing you not to do it.

 

 

That is the essence of your argument.

 

I don't want to do it! But you have to until you get to be ME, then you do;t have to do it either.

 

Its even more amusing to me to watch how everyone who supports/suggests this seems to set the barrier to entry at some level they have already obtained. It doesn't matter though, you're basically telling every new player to the game ever.. Hey, I know all that stuff sucks but eat it! You have to do it! I don't!

 

hit on all the topics in this thread and similar threads and posts on the board.

 

very good post and worth the full read and understanding. you really shouldn't read it with a closed mind and dead set on x12 XP. because you have already made up your mind and are not open to reason, facts and sources.

[MidnightMadness]

Nice sidestep.

 

It seems to me that you cannot answer his question and therefore wish to try to deflect attention away from it, rather than simply admit that you cannot answer it.

 

Nice backwards leap. Seems you can't answer my question either. <3 ya.

[Liquor]

i took a sniper to 55 by just doing story mode missions during the x12 XP event. it took about 7 hours.

legacy gear helped my companion and my character get through the tough spots. why in an MMO do we need x12 XP to level up in 7 hours?

 

but...do you remember seeing all the threads about fools at 55 on the forums? the posts on epic fails and groups in flashpoints and operations?

 

Hey, almost epic...but

You lost me at "onions of people" but then you

Have pulled me back at "vast majority of ppl". I must

Been seeing things but I could not find a vast majority. Maybe I was

Trolled by a handful of onion people

So I'm not the one complaining about how

Hard and long it takes to level up or the need for x12 XP

Edited March 6, 2015 by Liquor

[MSchuyler]

So TL;DR for this thread is:

 

Some people want 12XP.

Some people don't want 12XP.

Some people don't want 12XP and don't want anyone else to have it either.

 

In other words, once again, BW can NEVER win.

[Ratajack]

Nice backwards leap. Seems you can't answer my question either. <3 ya.

 

No backwards leap from me. However, there appears to be another attempt by you to divert attention from your inability to answer the FIRST question, the question asked of you by attempting to blame me for not answering a SUBSEQUENT question that was not even asked of me.

 

The FIRST question was asked of you and remains unanswered.

 

There HAVE been multiple posts detailing exactly how catering to some players aversion to the effort of leveling by providing a "light speed, easy mode" 12XP boost could be detrimental to the game as a whole.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Ratajack

[Liquor]

So TL;DR for this thread is:

 

Some people want 12XP. But don't understand how it will affect gameplay as a whole

Some people don't want 12XP. Do understand how it will affect gameplay as a whole (Big Picture)

Some people don't want 12XP and don't want anyone else to have it either. No Option. We are OK with it being an Event prior too an Expansion. It is a way to drive up sales of subs by bioware. It's Temporary

 

In other words, once again, BW can NEVER win.

5char

[Clarian]

So many people just frothing at the mouth auto assuming we want it to zerg to endgame. (Be it endgame raiding or endgame pvp) Which I could care less about.

Actually, I think that's the problem. I wouldn't object as much - maybe not at all - if people just wanted a level boost so they could get to endgame (as long as class story quests were unavailable to boosted characters).

 

The higher a game's level cap goes, the bigger the barrier to entry is for the people who just want to get the endgame. So once you get a few expansions in, maybe it's a natural thing to have a level boost to break down the barrier.

 

And the thing about people who want to boost to endgame is: there's reason to think they'll stick around for a good while and, well, do the endgame - that's the whole reason they want the boost. And of course, while they're sticking around, they're contributing revenue.

 

But, people who just want to zoom through the story...not so much.

[shudon]

Just stopped by to support the idea of 12x. I've done most of the stories and I enjoyed them all. Of the few that I have left the only reason I don't run them is because I don't want to play all the non-story content again. I love the epic story and want to enjoy it. Maybe tie this legacy perk to having a 50 on both factions or something similar.

[Ratajack]

If your only concern is to bypass the planet side quests, then by your own admission, there already exist multiple ways to accomplish this goal and a 12XP boost is not needed.

 

 

 

You are correct..... but you are twisting my words. Why is one way valid, to bypass the planet missions with the intention of doing only the Story Line missions, and the other way not valid.

 

IMO, it's not that one is "valid" and the other is not. It's more that one is a way to bypass the side planet quests and the other is a demand for a "light speed, easy mode" way to level, a way to avoid the minimal effort of leveling.

 

A better way to say it might be that one is simply finding a DIFFERENT kind of effort but the player is still willing to put forth the effort to level and the other is looking to AVOID the effort required to level.

 

It is a fact that this game already has in place a means to accomplish the goal of bypassing the side planet quests, IF that is the TRUE motivation of those demanding a 12XP boost.

 

Many of the people demanding the 12XP boost are claiming that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and that there demands have nothing to do with a desire for a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling. Yet, it has been shown time and time again that they can bypass those side planet quests WITHOUT the 12XP boost and still get to max level. The existing means of bypassing the side planet quests is not good enough for many of those demanding the 12 XP boost, though, despite their claims that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and not have a "light speed, easy mode" way to level.

 

This leads me to believe that the TRUE motivation is to have a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling and not simply a desire to bypass the side planet quests.

 

Honesty goes a LONG way in my book.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

Just stopped by to support the idea of 12x. I've done most of the stories and I enjoyed them all. Of the few that I have left the only reason I don't run them is because I don't want to play all the non-story content again. I love the epic story and want to enjoy it. Maybe tie this legacy perk to having a 50 on both factions or something similar.

 

Fortunately, you can experience those stories which you have left without having to do all those pesky side planet quests WITHOUT a 12XP boost.

 

All you need to do is to supplement the XP gained from the story quests with XP gained in one of the MANY other ways to gain XP--such as WZ's, running FP's, GSF, space missions, etc. You could even level to 50 using one or more of those other means of earning XP and then go back and do the story quest chain at level 50 if you want to do it with no interruptions.

[MidnightMadness]

Fortunately, you can experience those stories which you have left without having to do all those pesky side planet quests WITHOUT a 12XP boost.

 

All you need to do is to supplement the XP gained from the story quests with XP gained in one of the MANY other ways to gain XP--such as WZ's, running FP's, GSF, space missions, etc. You could even level to 50 using one or more of those other means of earning XP and then go back and do the story quest chain at level 50 if you want to do it with no interruptions.

 

Space Missions are lousy xp.

Not everyone wants to PvP.

What is he supposed to do while waiting for an FP to pop (takes a long time if DPS usually)?

Thanks.

[Ratajack]

Space Missions are lousy xp.

Not everyone wants to PvP.

What is he supposed to do while waiting for an FP to pop (takes a long time if DPS usually)?

Thanks.

 

I never said it would be "light speed, easy mode" leveling, but he CAN level without having to do those pesky planet side quests IF that is his TRUE motivation.

 

IMO, it is NOT his TRUE motivation, nor the TRUE motivation of those demanding the 12XP boost.

[MidnightMadness]

I never said it would be "light speed, easy mode" leveling, but he CAN level without having to do those pesky planet side quests IF that is his TRUE motivation.

 

IMO, it is NOT his TRUE motivation, nor the TRUE motivation of those demanding the 12XP boost.

 

You keep coming back to this. You're making contradictory points.

-> it's easy to level

-> they just want a faster way to level.

 

If leveling is so easy, do you really care if someone else achieves level 50 in 4 days instead of 7? is this going to drastically reduce your enjoyment of the game? You and your friends have this sort of doomsday-ish attitude that the heavens will fall if 12xXP ever becomes available again. It already was available for what...a month or more? SWTOR is still standing.

[TravelersWay]

You keep coming back to this. You're making contradictory points.

-> it's easy to level

-> they just want a faster way to level.

 

If leveling is so easy, do you really care if someone else achieves level 50 in 4 days instead of 7? is this going to drastically reduce your enjoyment of the game? You and your friends have this sort of doomsday-ish attitude that the heavens will fall if 12xXP ever becomes available again. It already was available for what...a month or more? SWTOR is still standing.

 

They are not contradictory points. They are both true, depending on one's opinion. Comparitively speaking, SWTOR has a much easier leveling curve than even many current-gen MMOs, let alone the "good ole days" of the genre. People requesting 12x also want a much faster way to level than is already currently provided for in the game.

 

I personally have no issues with any XP boost, so long as it is a completely optional, and the default is to allow a player to proceed "normally" (i.e. there should be no cost to opting out of XP boosts). However, I do agree with Rat that it is entirely possible, with the current XP boosts in the game, to skip all side quests and focus primarily on the class quests, so 12x is an unneeded feature.

 

Let's all just remember that this is still an MMO. Part of the genre includes some type of grind or another (though most current-gen MMOs have greatly reduced grind of all kinds). Part of the sustainability of the genre (i.e. keeping players playing the game, and thusly paying to support the game) requires that grind. Without it, any MMO is doomed to a much shorter lifespan. Personally, I would like to see SWTOR continue on for a decade or so at least, so have no problem with maintaining what little grind we have in this game, including the level grind.

[JamieKirby]

Putting 12x as a Legacy perk is definitely one of the options we discussed, among many. I believe that is what we had talked about in the past, (on a stream or at a cantina) that it was one of the possible options. As far as I know, it is not currently planned to implement that as a Legacy perk at this time.

 

-eric

 

I think you should change the legacy perks that increase class quest xp and exploration xp and make it 100% instead of just 25%.

 

That would be good enough for me.

[FAAmecanic]

because you have already made up your mind and are not open to reason, facts and sources.

 

So because I don't believe what you believe I must not be open to reason or fact..... Ok...."You can say it your own way, if its done just how I say"

[FAAmecanic]

I never said it would be "light speed, easy mode" leveling, but he CAN level without having to do those pesky planet side quests IF that is his TRUE motivation.

 

IMO, it is NOT his TRUE motivation, nor the TRUE motivation of those demanding the 12XP boost.

 

Yes ...again after leveling 10 toons I would like to 1) finish the counselor storyline which I have started..but have parked for the last year (yes...I missed out on the full 12x XP time because I was unsubbed and not paying attention) and 2) I really would like to level a Gunslinger (not a fan of the scoundrel).. and wouldn't mind seeing that story line (as well as all the others) in an uninterrupted, smooth flowing, single player experience.

 

That is my motivation.... why would I lie about it? This is a GAME for christs sakes.

[FAAmecanic]

IMO, it's not that one is "valid" and the other is not. It's more that one is a way to bypass the side planet quests and the other is a demand for a "light speed, easy mode" way to level, a way to avoid the minimal effort of leveling.

 

A better way to say it might be that one is simply finding a DIFFERENT kind of effort but the player is still willing to put forth the effort to level and the other is looking to AVOID the effort required to level.

 

It is a fact that this game already has in place a means to accomplish the goal of bypassing the side planet quests, IF that is the TRUE motivation of those demanding a 12XP boost.

 

Many of the people demanding the 12XP boost are claiming that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and that there demands have nothing to do with a desire for a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling. Yet, it has been shown time and time again that they can bypass those side planet quests WITHOUT the 12XP boost and still get to max level. The existing means of bypassing the side planet quests is not good enough for many of those demanding the 12 XP boost, though, despite their claims that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and not have a "light speed, easy mode" way to level.

 

This leads me to believe that the TRUE motivation is to have a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling and not simply a desire to bypass the side planet quests.

 

Honesty goes a LONG way in my book.

 

Ok so just asking (and Im not trying to be a smart alec here)....

 

What is the difference in me using Guild XP boost and Cartel XP boost during a 2x XP event. A boost is a boost...and if that gets someone to level 50 in 10 days vs 5 days.... you are still "boosting". What impact does that have on you or anyone else for that matter?

 

Now if I was asking for 196 Gear to be easymode that's a different story as it devalues something a player has worked for I could understand that..

[Raphael_diSanto]

IMO, it's not that one is "valid" and the other is not. It's more that one is a way to bypass the side planet quests and the other is a demand for a "light speed, easy mode" way to level, a way to avoid the minimal effort of leveling.

 

A better way to say it might be that one is simply finding a DIFFERENT kind of effort but the player is still willing to put forth the effort to level and the other is looking to AVOID the effort required to level.

 

It is a fact that this game already has in place a means to accomplish the goal of bypassing the side planet quests, IF that is the TRUE motivation of those demanding a 12XP boost.

 

Many of the people demanding the 12XP boost are claiming that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and that there demands have nothing to do with a desire for a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling. Yet, it has been shown time and time again that they can bypass those side planet quests WITHOUT the 12XP boost and still get to max level. The existing means of bypassing the side planet quests is not good enough for many of those demanding the 12 XP boost, though, despite their claims that they only want to bypass the side planet quests and not have a "light speed, easy mode" way to level.

 

This leads me to believe that the TRUE motivation is to have a "light speed, easy mode" means of leveling and not simply a desire to bypass the side planet quests.

 

Honesty goes a LONG way in my book.

I repeat, it has nothing to do with levelling or XP, or "easy mode" anything. Let's face it, nothing in this game is particularly "difficult" until you get to the end and start doing harmodes and nightmare modes. So it's not "easy mode" anything.

 

It's simply a desire to see the class story and nothing but the class story, because after playing this content on over a dozen characters, the class stories are the only part of the game which I enjoy.

 

Currently, I'm forced to do things I don't enjoy, in order to do things that I do enjoy. Real life's full enough of that kind of tradeoff. I shouldn't have to have it in my recreational entertainment either. And I absolutely shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of doing things which I don't enjoy just to do things that I do enjoy.

[Raphael_diSanto]

If its just about the story, form a 'story mode' group of like minded people on your server and pair a lower level character with a higher level character. Since you only care about the 'story' it wont matter if you have a 60 along who obliterates all the opponents for you so you can watch cut screens and click a few choices.

 

I did that, and it was much more fun, except that some parts of the game (Quesh) are level gated and you still need to go grind XP in order to proceed with the story.

[Raphael_diSanto]

How about once a Character accepts the 12x EXP boost for class Missions they are forbidden from all FP's, Ops and WZ/GSF type content?

 

I'd be okay with that.....

 

Actually, you know what would be the ideal solution here - Have a toggle so that all class quests scale to your level. That way, you could play through the story solo if you wished. Moving around on higher level planets would be a pain, but I'd be okay with that tradeoff, or I'd bring a high level friend along.

 

Then you can play through the story to the end, and if you decide that you want to keep that character and do end game things with them, you still have to level to 60 the normal way (FPs, WZs, Space Combat, whatever) .. Or you can say "Cool story, done with that" and then nuke the character and re-roll and do the next class or alignment or gender variation that you want.

 

All I really want is a way to play just the class story missions, in order, back to back. I don't care about XP or levels or any of that crap. I'm a narrative player, and I play solely for the story. It's what I sub to TOR for.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[EliteSeraph]

Fortunately, you can experience those stories which you have left without having to do all those pesky side planet quests WITHOUT a 12XP boost.

 

All you need to do is to supplement the XP gained from the story quests with XP gained in one of the MANY other ways to gain XP--such as WZ's, running FP's, GSF, space missions, etc. You could even level to 50 using one or more of those other means of earning XP and then go back and do the story quest chain at level 50 if you want to do it with no interruptions.

 

Another thing to consider is the reason WHY people want to skip that content. Part of it is definitely due to the difference in gameplay between the leveling experience and end-game. Some people really do just want to raid and run group content at the highest level. The story and the leveling process holds no interest. Other people JUST want the story, and after they've seen it, it has very little replay value.

 

Part of the problem is that all the side quests have so little replay value, while the main class stories have HIGH replay value. Even if you don't repeat the same story for the differences of light/dark side, or male/female, you still have 8 unique stories to experience. But that means repeating the same side quests 8 times. And that gets pretty damn dull.

 

Maybe if the side quests had better replay value people wouldn't be asking for way to play ONLY the story.

[Arodin]

What you want is a fastlane, because you feel entitled to get the end results of a NEW character without putting In the effort and you justify this because you say you have put the effort in on a different character.

 

Please do not tell me what I want. I do not want a fastlane. In fact, if I was only experiencing the high quality story content and not boring side missions and grinding bonus objectives, I would want it to take a good long time because I would really be enjoying that experience. I could not care less about getting to max level. There's nothing there but a carrot-chasing endgame that I have no interest in whatsoever.

 

What I do want is for this game to be worth playing. 12xXP would make the game worth playing again. Without it, after these free 7 days are up, I'm out. You won't be hearing from me again or probably anyone else of my "ilk" (those of us advocating 12xXP). And more importantly for Bioware, they won't be receiving any of our money. Why do you think Bioware gave 7 free days of sub access? They're trying to entice us back. 12xXP or a similar boost to class story XP is how they can do it.

 

Let's be honest, SWTOR isn't a particularly great MMO in terms of its combat system. It is highly derivative of WoW gameplay in a time when MMOs are moving beyond that tired, old standard of hotbar button rotations. But SWTOR does have one significant strong point that no other MMO can match -- the story. It's one thing that almost everyone can agree on, the class stories in SWTOR are really great. So why keep the stories hidden away behind hours and hours of grinding? Bioware should recognize that the strength of SWTOR is the class stories, and they should make that strength as accessible to players as possible.

 

Its entitlement and its selfishness and it does damage to the game for all those people who do not have a 12x legacy unlocked boost and are having to level the normal way.

 

How does it damage the game for anyone? It changes NOTHING for people who do not have 12x legacy. Their experience would be 100% identical to the experience they have now, and if they don't like it at least they would have the option of buying the 12xXP boost. If you are admitting that not having 12xXP is a worse experience, then why are you arguing to keep a worse experience in SWTOR?

 

IMO it is this hard-headed adherence to an old school MMO leveling experience that is causing a decline in the entire MMORPG genre. MMO developers need to get their players off the tedious treadmills if they want their games to be fun and attract a larger audience. It is a very small, masochistic minority of players who actually value the hardship of a slow, boring leveling experience, who see it as some right of passage or something. I just want the game to be fun to play, and repeating side missions and bonus objective grinding over and over again is not fun.

[MSchuyler]

5char

 

So you want what you want and consider yourself more intelligent that anyone else. We get that. The bottom line is that you want the game to go your way and begrudge anyone else who wants a different result. After all, you're smarter than everyone else and KNOW how "game play" will be affected.

 

Or not.