Why the new Operations are threatening to kill the game.

[Island_Jedi]

What I don't understand is the incompetence that I have been seeing lately in random groups. SM Ravagers can be completed in under one hour if the group is not stupid. I main dps, tanked it for the first time yesterday and had no problems. All people need to do is go to Dufly.com and look up what to do. And as someone who will occasionally lead randoms, I don't require an achievement. I simply look and see if a person has completed the content I would expect of an average raider. I look to see if there is full completion on S&V, DF, and DP. If someone has done those, then they can make it through Rav with a little explanation.

 

That being said ToS, I would quiz people on mechanics because of the absolute need to know them. Maybe SM ToS needs a tune down.

 

sm rav is fine

[Icestar]

sm rav is fine

 

I agree, SM Ravagers is fine but ToS is not.

[Heasin]

I agree, SM Ravagers is fine but ToS is not.

 

I would beg to differ.

 

I am not a world-class player, but have been tanking with my sin in our progression group for a couple of weeks now (and have never tanked before that period) and every boss in ToS SM is fine, even Underlurker, if you have a sound strategy and know what to do.

 

So, apart from bugs, you can do it even though it may take a few wipes to learn the fight from 0%.

Understandably, i would not try any boss of the new Ops (neither Rav nor ToS) with pugs, but if youre interested in raiding as a player, you should get in a guild anyways.

 

If there is anything that could be toned down, then were talking about Revan and Corattani in HM.

 

Cheers.

 

PS. Just FYI, we don´t have a PT in our group to cheese the cross-mechanic of Underlurker.

[Excise]

I am not a world-class player, but have been tanking with my sin in our progression group for a couple of weeks now (and have never tanked before that period) and every boss in ToS SM is fine, even Underlurker, if you have a sound strategy and know what to do.

 

Underlurker isn't really a tanking challenge, per se. As far as tanking he's mostly tank 'n spank except for hiding behind rocks. What gets a lot of groups is just the DPS/Healing requirements--especially in 8 man.

[Icestar]

but if youre interested in raiding as a player, you should get in a guild anyways.

 

Oh I am in good guilds on both sides, pre-launch player here with 16 level 60s one of each advanced class

 

I do not have them all in guilds though since I enjoy the peace and quiet a pug can provide, so I know "both sides" of the story. Doing the OPS with a good team and doing the OPS with pugs.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Icestar

[attilaszokol]

In my opinion, the new content after the 3.0 patch is too hard. Until now, I can not do the level 60 HM Flashpoints (Battle of Rishi / Bloodhunt) or the story mode Ravagers / Temple of Sacrifice operations. I have been playing with SWTOr from the launching the game (I am pre-order player), and I have alaways subscription, but now this game is unplayable for me. In my opinion, the challange rating is set for Public Test Server hardcore players (those who have no life in the real world), therefore the casual player can not enjoy the PvE contect, just always die and die again.. This is very frustrating, and there is no game in this. Therefore I am deleting my (more than 3 years old) continous subscription. An advice for the BioWare: read and listen the subscribers' complains in the Forums, and do not develop the game only for the harcore players. Other case, only the hardcore players will play and pay for this game.. May the Force be with you.

[Shwarzchild]

In my opinion, the new content after the 3.0 patch is too hard. Until now, I can not do the level 60 HM Flashpoints (Battle of Rishi / Bloodhunt) or the story mode Ravagers / Temple of Sacrifice operations. I have been playing with SWTOr from the launching the game (I am pre-order player), and I have alaways subscription, but now this game is unplayable for me. In my opinion, the challange rating is set for Public Test Server hardcore players (those who have no life in the real world), therefore the casual player can not enjoy the PvE contect, just always die and die again.. This is very frustrating, and there is no game in this. Therefore I am deleting my (more than 3 years old) continous subscription. An advice for the BioWare: read and listen the subscribers' complains in the Forums, and do not develop the game only for the harcore players. Other case, only the hardcore players will play and pay for this game.. May the Force be with you.

 

If you've been around this long how did you not quit when Lost Island's droid killed everyone? Or Eternity Vault early on. Or Dread Palace council or Dread Fortress Corruptor Zero? I kind of think you're just jumping to jump right now. The casual player really can do these operations. They aren't too difficult. Blood Hunt is a different story in my opinion, and Underlurker can use a tweak. But, that's really it. Quitting is too knee jerk. If you're on POT5 I'll help you clear some of this stuff. Just PM me. I'm not world class, but I have cleared all of the content you're talking about and working on hardmode rav/ ToS. Is it fair that you'll probably need to read a guide to get to the next level? Probably not, but if you have 10 minutes on the can or bored at work or something just pull something up. Helping yourself isn't a bad thing. There comes a point where we have to start doing something to make sure we're better than we are.

 

Also..don't quit yet because things will change (im hoping for the better) when the new patch hits where group finder goes to 8 man and older ops are included with ultimate coms. We should see a better clear rate after that.

[GrimWulf]

This is one of the reasons why I recently cancelled my sub. I have 2 months left so hopefully it will get better for a weekend player like myself.

Spending an hour looking for 55 or 60 HM for a reward that does not make doing it worth it is a time sync for me. It getting to the point where I only log on to raid 2 nights a week and then do nothing. Whats the point if the rest of the game cant hold any interest for me.

I have been here on and off since alpha but with each expansion it gradually gets less entertaining.

[JouerTue]

off topic, i don't get how being alpha tester, beta guy or subbed from launch gives people extra brain or more judgement on the game even if they know nothing and are total bads.

 

if you are leaving at this point it cannot be for difficulty of the content. no one used to pug LI, or EC and you needed achievments for hm tfb, snv and lately for dp and df hm. a lot of guilds were doing df/dp hm(pugging first 4 bosses easily) at 3.0 launch and a lot even nim, those cleared both ops in sm the first night out with gear you'd get kicked now.

 

most casuals probably just got carried for months in 16m tfb/snv/df/dp and were full oriconian real quickly and started thinking they were good, it was just that those sm were really really easy and totally outgeared.

 

the only difference with this tier is that it's too early for carrying and some bosses have random mechanics which a bad will always struggle with, or some dps/heal checks that require a minimum knowledge of the class that a lot show to not have. ravagers is now fine because you can heal through dps taking scatter blaster at bulo or zero cleances/consoles at coratanni fights.

 

BH is the only hard fp but it's because people are unable to avoid circles and do 3k dps at the same time. same for underlurker, dpsing around 2.5k while figuring out right or left? no way! and 2.5k is totally reachable spamming random skills without any metrics program.

 

i agree with nerfing those if it makes the community happy, i don't care about elitism, i care that the game is healthy, but saying that those fights are undoable is just exagerating same as leaving for that unless you run a useless hybrid from lauch or beta or whatever

[Never_Hesitate]

After reading through these SWTOR forums I'd fear to be kicked as well. Seriously.

...

Fits.

 

Kicking someone because he's undergeared is not the same thing as kicking someone because he's there for the first time and doesn't know the mechanics.

 

 

Underlurker isn't really a tanking challenge, per se. As far as tanking he's mostly tank 'n spank except for hiding behind rocks. What gets a lot of groups is just the DPS/Healing requirements--especially in 8 man.

 

Good joke! are there really tanks who hide behind rocks on Lurker 8sm?

His roar doesn't even really scratch my hp bar

 

Imo the problem a lot of groups have with underlurker is that the dps fall behind and through that the heals fall behind then add one failed cross and you have a wipe

 

I agree, SM Ravagers is fine but ToS is not.

 

Correct, ToS is not fine. an operation shouldn't be solo tankable while it's current content

Edited April 13, 2015 by Never_Hesitate

[Preston_Violent]

If you've been around this long how did you not quit when Lost Island's droid killed everyone? Or Eternity Vault early on. Or Dread Palace council or Dread Fortress Corruptor Zero?

 

Because that was then and things have changed now. No more tens of servers and hundreds online on fleets alone. No more endless enthusiasm coming from many, many players for the game basically and instances in particular, like trying over and over Lost Island hm pre-nerf. The most recent online gaming trend seems to be about people going cba much faster and caring a lot less. "I can't breeze through a story mode ops? I can't beat story modes bosses in less than 2-3 tries max? Well f*** it I'll go do something else or better yet, play something else" - that's the dominating attitude.

 

BW's attempts to prolong new content life span may have been appreciated by the few dozens of hm challenge lovers but generally it has had the exact opposite effect: people can't beat (relatively) easily content that is expected to be puggable (specifically tos story, blood hunt hm), so they won't keep trying over and over like they used to in lost island or EV or KP back in the day. They'd rather just leave and who's winning in this situation? Looks like no one.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Preston_Violent

[Island_Jedi]

Because that was then and things have changed now. No more tens of servers and hundreds online on fleets alone. No more endless enthusiasm coming from many, many players for the game basically and instances in particular, like trying over and over Lost Island hm pre-nerf. The most recent online gaming trend seems to be about people going cba much faster and caring a lot less. "I can't breeze through a story mode ops? I can't beat story modes bosses in less than 2-3 tries max? Well f*** it I'll go do something else or better yet, play something else" - that's the dominating attitude.

 

BW's attempts to prolong new content life span may have been appreciated by the few dozens of hm challenge lovers but generally it has had the exact opposite effect: people can't beat (relatively) easily content that is expected to be puggable (specifically tos story, blood hunt hm), so they won't keep trying over and over like they used to in lost island or EV or KP back in the day. They'd rather just leave and who's winning in this situation? Looks like no one.

 

You are basically summerizing how I feel on the matter. People want to force others to feel about the game what they feel. The problem is thinking you can "fix" the game by forcing people to get "gud". Most people will say **** getting good and leave. Then your stuck with an underfunded product that eventually if not slowly dies. The progressive community is feverishly protecting what they feel is important to them and that is fair enough. I love the passion, but passion alone from a hundred players or so will not better this game.

 

These are different times and accessibility is the key to success not niche marketing. Operations are one of the key features of an update to say they should only be played by "gud" players even on SM is like saying, if your not "gud" do not buy our product. I am pretty sure Bioware advertised these new ops as a major reason to pick up the expansion and were hoping to attract more players. Most players now will not put up with content that is not tuned right. Incorrectly tuned content is the quickest way to cause loss in revenue.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Island_Jedi

[FerkWork]

This thread should be really titled why the Underlurker is killing the game. Most Pugs can clear 9/10 boss. Sword Squadron is at that sweet spot now as most damage is avoidable and is an fun mechanic but now easier mechanic. Just do some fine tuning on 16man dmg output and it should be good. Torque is no longer a DPS check on 16man.

 

Add 1 minute to enrage timer or reduce HP on adds. Either works. Then all of it will be pig able and fine.

[Shwarzchild]

You are basically summerizing how I feel on the matter. People want to force others to feel about the game what they feel. The problem is thinking you can "fix" the game by forcing people to get "gud". Most people will say **** getting good and leave. Then your stuck with an underfunded product that eventually if not slowly dies. The progressive community is feverishly protecting what they feel is important to them and that is fair enough. I love the passion, but passion alone from a hundred players or so will not better this game.

 

These are different times and accessibility is the key to success not niche marketing. Operations are one of the key features of an update to say they should only be played by "gud" players even on SM is like saying, if your not "gud" do not buy our product. I am pretty sure Bioware advertised these new ops as a major reason to pick up the expansion and were hoping to attract more players. Most players now will not put up with content that is not tuned right. Incorrectly tuned content is the quickest way to cause loss in revenue.

 

We both have been pretty generalistic here, and that's fine since we've expanded from underlurker to a more philosophical debate. I think you're right to be concerned about the health of the game, as we all should be. However, I do not think that huge sweeping changes need to be made for the lowest common denominator. I actually think most people clear these fights. At least from what I can tell in terms of who is pugging, there's really maybe 1 or 3 people in each group who needs things explained to them, and even then they get it...most of the time. When pug raids I've been in fail it's generally because you've got the 1-3 players who just don't do anything correctly, and refuse any help. At the time Bioware released that info people weren't touching ToS. I'd like to see what up to date info on ToS participation looks like before we really go to the wall here. It also could be that the return of Ultimate coms to the older ops (which are very mechanically challenging so by default could somehow increase raid awareness for new ops players basically by accident) is what the game needed to really keep the end game balance intact.

 

I just want to stress to players who are having trouble with this content. Just do a little more for yourself and you'll be fine. Look at a guide real quick on the can, or when you're in group if you don't know something or are hazy just ask. The more experience you get with underlurker or whatever boss is your personal sticking point, the closer you'll be to clearing it. My motto is kind of "if you find yourself complaining about god knows what, be the solution not more of the problem". So that's how I'd approach struggling within an op.

 

Also just as an aside...how did "join a guild" become synonomous with "L2P"? I read that somewhere and that confused the day lights out of me. We are playing a multiplayer game, why not enjoy the community on a different level instead of "everyone is random"? For the most part I don't think any of us bite.

[Declan_Vee]

It also could be that the return of Ultimate coms to the older ops (which are very mechanically challenging so by default could somehow increase raid awareness for new ops players basically by accident) is what the game needed to really keep the end game balance intact.

 

I'm sorry, but 2.X's over-incentivising of sm facerolls and showering players with ultimate comms to purchase gear four tiers higher than the recommended gear for that content was the cause of and will not be the solution to the issue of player skill spiraling downward and downward.

 

If the new 3.2 GF were to use the 55 ops in HM it "might" make a difference... though if Left / Right is too much of an issue; you can forget about getting through Op IX's colour deletion.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Declan_Vee

[Pirate_Scuba]

Also just as an aside...how did "join a guild" become synonomous with "L2P"? I read that somewhere and that confused the day lights out of me. We are playing a multiplayer game, why not enjoy the community on a different level instead of "everyone is random"? For the most part I don't think any of us bite.

 

People tell players new to ops to get a guild because this is the best place for the to learn new content. Guilds provide a cohesive group of players and usually voice comms where players can be given feedback in real time to increase their understanding of mechanics and places they may be failing.

 

Whilst there are many guilds focused on progression who may not offer this, there are definitely guilds angled at teaching new players and providing a place for "casual" or less frequent players.

 

Hence why joining a guild is a far superior way to L2P - with other people who have already indicated they are willing to give you the time to teach you as opposed to a random group of players, who join a PUG to quickly push through content they know.

 

Unless it's specifically advertised that way, most PUG groups do not form to spend time & money "teaching" a player, who has not taken the opportunities given to help themselves learn.

 

PUG groups by design do not also lend themselves well to completing a single instance in more than one session, due to the randomness of availability & willingness to reform on multiple occasions. A guild however will usually indicate set times on multiple days of the week where the same group of people will commit to spending more than one session if necessary to complete the single instance.

 

Seems a reasonable suggestion to me...

[Island_Jedi]

People tell players new to ops to get a guild because this is the best place for the to learn new content. Guilds provide a cohesive group of players and usually voice comms where players can be given feedback in real time to increase their understanding of mechanics and places they may be failing.

 

Whilst there are many guilds focused on progression who may not offer this, there are definitely guilds angled at teaching new players and providing a place for "casual" or less frequent players.

 

Hence why joining a guild is a far superior way to L2P - with other people who have already indicated they are willing to give you the time to teach you as opposed to a random group of players, who join a PUG to quickly push through content they know.

 

Unless it's specifically advertised that way, most PUG groups do not form to spend time & money "teaching" a player, who has not taken the opportunities given to help themselves learn.

 

PUG groups by design do not also lend themselves well to completing a single instance in more than one session, due to the randomness of availability & willingness to reform on multiple occasions. A guild however will usually indicate set times on multiple days of the week where the same group of people will commit to spending more than one session if necessary to complete the single instance.

 

Seems a reasonable suggestion to me...

 

Being in a guild is the best way to learn the game. Your right on that mr. scubz.

[Shwarzchild]

People tell players new to ops to get a guild because this is the best place for the to learn new content. Guilds provide a cohesive group of players and usually voice comms where players can be given feedback in real time to increase their understanding of mechanics and places they may be failing.

 

Whilst there are many guilds focused on progression who may not offer this, there are definitely guilds angled at teaching new players and providing a place for "casual" or less frequent players.

 

Hence why joining a guild is a far superior way to L2P - with other people who have already indicated they are willing to give you the time to teach you as opposed to a random group of players, who join a PUG to quickly push through content they know.

 

Unless it's specifically advertised that way, most PUG groups do not form to spend time & money "teaching" a player, who has not taken the opportunities given to help themselves learn.

 

PUG groups by design do not also lend themselves well to completing a single instance in more than one session, due to the randomness of availability & willingness to reform on multiple occasions. A guild however will usually indicate set times on multiple days of the week where the same group of people will commit to spending more than one session if necessary to complete the single instance.

 

Seems a reasonable suggestion to me...

 

I've been advocating on here for a while for the unguilded casual players to join guilds. What I meant was when people say L2P it's more seen as an insult. And, I've seen that these casual players who are unguilded that are having problems are starting to see "join a guild" in the same negative vein as "L2P" even if joining a guild that fits their schedules, or amount of play would be the best solution.

[Island_Jedi]

Does the progression community feel the Cortani and Revan fights are overtuned in HM? Edited April 17, 2015 by Island_Jedi

[AlrikFassbauer]

You are basically summerizing how I feel on the matter. People want to force others to feel about the game what they feel. The problem is thinking you can "fix" the game by forcing people to get "gud". Most people will say **** getting good and leave. Then your stuck with an underfunded product that eventually if not slowly dies. The progressive community is feverishly protecting what they feel is important to them and that is fair enough. I love the passion, but passion alone from a hundred players or so will not better this game.

 

TV Tropes has an excellent article on that matter (no trolling) : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBase

It's really an eye-opener, I thought when I had read it for the first time !

 

Quoting from there :

 

So, just give the fans exactly what they want and everything will work out. Simple, huh?

 

Not quite. Generally speaking, the more intensely devoted fans in a fandom are usually outnumbered by the casual fans, but the more devoted a fan becomes, the more active (and louder) they become in the fandom. So while a few million casual fans might enjoy an episode without ever making it widely known, a handful of devoted and occasionally unhinged fans are screaming on a web forum about how the show is now Ruined FOREVER, which can be seen and heard by everyone... including the people making the show. The producers may then start pandering to these voices exclusively, believing them to be the voice of everyone watching (which they will often claim to be) — but "everyone" in this case may in fact consist only of a handful of people, and what this minority wants and what the other, less noisy fans want can differ drastically.

 

This presents a major problem. The property can end up becoming a private club, accessible only to a select few. Excluding the casual fans means they'll simply drift away to find something else to spend their time on, and raising the entry bar too high means you run the risk of locking out new fans who may have possibly been interested in the property, but now find it too difficult to access. While the vocal minority might now be satisfied (and you can't even count on that), they rarely translate to enough ratings and / or sales to justify the property's continued existence — and to make matters worse, even this hardcore minority may begin to drift away for numerous reasons (changing tastes, burnout, lessened interest, etc). This results in diminishing returns ending in eventual cancellation if unchecked.

 

Furthermore, the overall quality of the property can begin to suffer; just because someone is intensely committed to a particular work of fiction doesn't necessarily mean they know what makes good fiction work.

 

And, I've seen that these casual players who are unguilded that are having problems are starting to see "join a guild" in the same negative vein as "L2P" even if joining a guild that fits their schedules, or amount of play would be the best solution.

 

Yes, this is where it leads to : "join a guild" -becomes "JAG" becomes "JG" and is in the end = "L2P" 2.0 or 3.0

Edited April 18, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Island_Jedi]

The current HM is in alot of ways what the difficulty of NIM was last tier. This has created some stupid situations for the game and a lot of its players.

 

1. A lot of players do not want to do the SM's too easy, but the HM's are too hard. (In DF DP the HM ops were a nice medium difficulty for raiders that wanted challenge, but not stab your eye hard). This creates situations where some players are bored with SM but frusterated with HM and quit the game.

 

2. The current tier of HM's gives little room to make them harder for fear of making them undoable. Nim would have to be ever so slightly harder or you got to nerf HM. Nerfing HM seems redundant why nerf HM only to release NIM as being almost the same thing HM was prenerf, silly.

 

3.The OPS themselves are more about parsing high in heals and dps. They are alot less about mechanics for some fights. Not many bosses have things you gotta interrupt and the mechanics seem to devolve to simply click this now. activate blue circles cortani, release repair droid and such. There are no puzzle bosses really anymore. Quite a few players can get average dps and heals, so I feel failure to do mechanics not SWTOR guruship is what should determine if you can get through HM. Leave the gurus in NIM, but now you cant really make NIM can you?

 

4. PTS testing simply revolved around elite raiders and devs as if the rest of the community did not matter. Big mistake getting perspective from a tiny fraction of your population. It gives you a very narrow view of your product. Bioware time to wakeup and begin listening to more then a handful of elitist players, unless the devs have gone elitists?

Edited April 22, 2015 by Island_Jedi

[AshlaBoga]

The current HM is in alot of ways what the difficulty of NIM was last tier. This has created some stupid situations for the game and a lot of its players.

 

1. A lot of players do not want to do the SM's too easy, but the HM's are too hard. (In DF DP the HM ops were a nice medium difficulty for raiders that wanted challenge, but not stab your eye hard). This creates situations where some players are bored with SM but frusterated with HM and quit the game.

 

2. The current tier of HM's gives little room to make them harder for fear of making them undoable. Nim would have to be ever so slightly harder or you got to nerf HM. Nerfing HM seems redundant why nerf HM only to release NIM as being almost the same thing HM was prenerf, silly.

 

3.The OPS themselves are more about parsing high in heals and dps. They are alot less about mechanics for some fights. Not many bosses have things you gotta interrupt and the mechanics seem to devolve to simply click this now. activate blue circles cortani, release repair droid and such. There are no puzzle bosses really anymore. Quite a few players can get average dps and heals, so I feel failure to do mechanics not SWTOR guruship is what should determine if you can get through HM. Leave the gurus in NIM, but now you cant really make NIM can you?

 

4. PTS testing simply revolved around elite raiders and devs as if the rest of the community did not matter. Big mistake getting perspective from a tiny fraction of your population. It gives you a very narrow view of your product. Bioware time to wakeup and begin listening to more then a handful of elitist players, unless the devs have gone elitists?

 

Good news, SLIGHT nerf incoming: of SM/HM Walker, SM Underlurker (adds health), and HM Revan (4 Aberrations instead of 6), and something regarding Torque (don't remember, it was on stream).

 

They probably changed HM Revan since they didn't leave much room to make him tougher on NiM.

[wainot-keel]

[...]

 

3.The OPS themselves are more about parsing high in heals and dps. They are alot less about mechanics for some fights. Not many bosses have things you gotta interrupt and the mechanics seem to devolve to simply click this now. activate blue circles cortani, release repair droid and such. There are no puzzle bosses really anymore. Quite a few players can get average dps and heals, so I feel failure to do mechanics not SWTOR guruship is what should determine if you can get through HM. Leave the gurus in NIM, but now you cant really make NIM can you?

 

4. PTS testing simply revolved around elite raiders and devs as if the rest of the community did not matter. Big mistake getting perspective from a tiny fraction of your population. It gives you a very narrow view of your product. Bioware time to wakeup and begin listening to more then a handful of elitist players, unless the devs have gone elitists?

 

I really liked the approach for DF/DP. SM and HM first, then NiM DF, then NiM DP ( both with the nightmare buff ) then the removal of the buff.. That certainly had a wider audience than the current tier.

 

But, I imagine, it took quite lot of man hours to make all that. If there is no NiM for Rav/ToS, then I bet the amount of hours invested is significantly lower than the prior ops.

From a management standpoint, then it looks pretty sweet, you delivered the hard pve content pretty much in one go, just sm and hm that's it. Therefore the elite raiders were invited to test the ops precisely to make sure the hms were nim difficulty (not just to spot bugs or stuff like that), because that was the plan from the begining, only sm and hm for the entire cycle.

 

But who knows... only time will tell and I could be entirely wrong and they make the annoucement for NiM next week...lol

[MuratReis]

The current content is ok for me, but please fix sm, before the casual players that are a huge part of this game begin leaving more then they already have.

 

First, using the term "casual" to refer to "unskilled" is wrong. There are many casual players who have played a class for more than 3 years for a good number of hours a week but can't commit to 3-4 hour raiding blocks. They know their class inside and out. They can pull off optimal rotations. They are situationally aware. And SM ToS and Ravagers is currently very easy for them. But I digress...

 

The questions at hand is if operations should be part of the basic game experience, like class storylines and tactical flashpoints, or if they should be something reserved for people who want to learn their class well and apply skill and understanding.These are the two sides.

 

If SM ops are for everyone, then Bioware should make them widely available -- make them tactical and make them "faceroll" easy. Don't take the middle ground because players that don't like to be challenged will complain on end until it is as easy as a tactical flashpoint.

 

If they are reserved for the more skilled players who don't have the time to participate in a HM/NiM progression team but have played their toon for years and want to apply their skill, then Bioware should be open about that.

 

It's impossible to please everyone....If SM ops are nerfed, the skilled player who just can't commit to an ops schedule is left out of the loop. (HM being to hard for the time being.) If they are not nerfed, the alt-o-holics who like to play everything at a moderately low-level are left out. Pick a side and stand by it, Bioware....The current state is just causing confusion.

 

Personally, I don't care either way. I'm still just trying to get my set pieces so I can do HM....

Edited April 23, 2015 by MuratReis

[blunite]

I cant speak for everybody, but my guild and myself are pretty much in the same position. We are not hardcore raiders, most of us being 25 y/o and up with jobs, families etc. We have progressed nicely through all the past ops, sm, hm and even some Nim content. Sm is too easy, and Hm is a big challenge with Rav and tos. Most of us are tired of beating are heads against the wall, and ready to throw in the towel. Have plenty of alts, that sit around collecting dust. With hm df and dp, you could jump on an alt and pug into a hm and have a good chance of getting 4/5 or a clear. Go on the fleet now, nobody advertises for a hm group with tos or rav, and the reason is obvious. I know for many, there isn't a lot of things to do anymore, so people just are not logging on and losing interest. Hopefully things change.