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SS GS/MM Sniper in ranked pvp. Help or am I just screwed?


JakeRaider

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Any suggestions other than that I'm out of luck. I pop everything when I'm usually focused within the first 30 seconds (i.e. diversion, defense screen, dodge, scrambling field, hunkerdown, warzone medpacs/adrenals, hightail it). If they stay on me, which isn't that hard, they usually kill me within 30 seconds.

 

What am I doing wrong? Just tell me if I'm s.o.l.

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Any suggestions other than that I'm out of luck. I pop everything when I'm usually focused within the first 30 seconds (i.e. diversion, defense screen, dodge, scrambling field, hunkerdown, warzone medpacs/adrenals, hightail it). If they stay on me, which isn't that hard, they usually kill me within 30 seconds.

 

What am I doing wrong? Just tell me if I'm s.o.l.

 

You are using Sharp in solo ranked. You need to go sabo.

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1/ Your teammates need to peel for you.

2/ You need to position yourself carefully before the match, such that in the time they walk over to you your teammates can intercept them.

 

I basically wrote a treatise on it, though it might have some stuff people disagree with:

 

 

@OP&others: I play MM all day. It is an experience that's rewarding at times, and very frustrating at others. I'll focus on the frustrating parts now, as in the many ways you can get killed or shut down.

 

NOTE: I am mostly talking about solo ranked.

 

A group with a sniper in it is VERY position dependent. Areas with lots of LOS shuts you down (or in other words, "even the map counters you"), and arenas are stock full of them. Looking down on mercenaries? You'll change your mind as they self-heal behind a barrier and pop in and out with heavy hitters. Want to chase them? They can just walk around that barrier and laugh at you, you know. Same goes for sorcerers, Hatred assassins... basically anything but melee. Sniper is really bad for such 1v1 situations at the end of the game - good thing you'll almost always be focused first.

 

This means that you should just go to an open spot and wait, right? Well, you yes. The rest of the group, no. If you just stand back and wait as a group, they'll just walk over to you in perfect attack formation (maybe not literally perfect, but it'll be what suits THEM better). You want them to walk over to you, and the rest of your teammates to go out and intercept them. But if they do that, they might get kited to a place where you'll get LOS'ed. Doesn't matter, you getting off two ambushes is better than you getting off one ambush before dying, and you teammates shouldn't instantly die just because it's 4v3. Your teammates are sturdier afterall, so you unplant and go get into position if such LOS occurs. If they keep running at you instead of kiting the wider group into LOS, your group still gets opening advantage.

 

This all goes out of the window if the enemy team also has a sniper. There are three ways the other team can attack it, their sniper charging with them, their sniper set to plant a bit behind, or their sniper set to flank you while the rest of the team engages.

 

If their sniper is charging with them, what I find useful is to have the team tunnel the sniper. You can follow a bit behind and diversion the sniper, which should be followed by a hard stun and burst by your teammates. This is the easy variant, except the sniper might engage where you're LOS'ed (middle of Tatooine Canyon is too suitable for this). A diversion'ed sniper is a near free kill anyways, so don't stretch yourself too much. Chances are the other team's still going for you.

 

If their sniper is a bit behind, you can try rolling in and diversion'ing him, but it's a hard one. If your group intercepts the bulk of the other group, and their sniper is far behind, it might be better for you to also stand behind and take shots at people in the middle. Rolling in cuts damage you can be doing to other distracted teammates, and the sniper can just diversion you at the end of your roll, which means you're now a free kill.

 

If their sniper is set to flank you (i.e. he takes a wide route away from the rest of his group while they all approach you, it should be the case that your group is engaged by the rest of the other group first (otherwise just run at the sniper and kill him as a group). If you are wide from your group, you get into a sniper 1v1. If you're in the middle of your group, not only you're a free kill, but that diversion in the middle of your group means your group's expected DPS is cut in half.

 

In short, stay away from the rest of your group as a sniper, and motivate them to go forward. Try to pick off enemy snipers and don't get picked off yourself. It sounds easy, and people do love writing off so many things which supposedly make a sniper's life easy, but it isn't.

 

Of course, there are some compositions which will butcher a group with a sniper in it, IMHO. These are:

 

- Operative + Sniper: They infiltrate towards you, (optional root) and then diversion you. Don't expect to last a lot, though at least you can keep channeling Suppressive Fire everywhere to pop them out of stealth.

- Double+ (Hatred) Assassin: Filthy pubs have been getting pops with 2+ shadows. If they're smart and approach you with deflection and/or shroud up, you'll be toast in about 5 seconds. Deception is a bit better, you at least can knock them back off ledges with two PB channels (white damage knockback goes through shroud and deflection I think), root one and roll, or something.

- Double Stealth: Also includes operatives. Better than double assassin as you can knock back the sustained part of their damage, but the opening burst is often enough to get you half-dead.

- Multiple PT, or PT + Operative: You literally get globalled. You'll die in three-five globals if you fire every cooldown including Evasion and Covered Escape. That's because the latter two give %100 resist, and the other cooldowns, stim and adrenal is ineffective in mitigating that burst. You die anyways. +operative makes this worse as they can open on you within range, which means you'll probably die if you don't have a "roll-reflex".

 

Sorcerers, who are left freecasting for whatever reason, can hurt you a lot as well. Your DCD's are **** against force/tech attacks. I would say you can mez them, or focus them back, but they have bubble and enduring bastion while you don't. Focusing them back kind of "stuns them out", except chances are you're concerned with your own survival too much to attack (Covered Escape is on GCD, so are your stuns - and as your health is having a race to the bottom chances are you're not dealing damage) and the rest of your team is attacking someone else.

 

Good thing PB is also a defensive channel, so you usually end up with ~25k damage even if you die really fast.

 

If left alone, or if the game isn't defense intensive (you don't have to chain defensives just to tank for your team a bit more), you can easily top damage. If any of the above hold, expect to die within the first 10 seconds, and do somewhere between 0-25k damage.

 

Matches with healer OR tank are much better though, and in matches with both I find sniper to be a great asset. Your knockbacks, roots, trauma (Shatter Shot), entrench and dependable burst make you a great asset to have for control. You can be much more comfortable in stardard group setups. Furthermore, the compositions I identify as really hurting sniper, apart from Sniper + Operative, are those that stack classes generally agreed to be OP.

 

I don't think it's too bad - as long as the other team doesn't have too many OP classes, or if your side has enough to match them (doubtful, as your group has one sniper guaranteed~) you can survive well with your DCD's, or die late enough that the other team has guaranteed their loss. The current meta is also nice for improving your defensive skills - you will actually see a marked improvement in your regs performance after you get practice trying to survive in ranked.

 

edit: I am in no means pro, but I would urge you to ignore people who tell you to kite their classes if you're indeed playing MM. Engineering is better for kiting since Explosive Probe and its Scatter Bombs can be detonated with Overload Shots. Whereas writing this now gives me the idea of using overload shot to deal with nasty LOS (and re-adding it on my keybinds lol), MM's most important damage comes from channels, and all the kitable classes right now (Juggernaut, Sentinel and Deception Assassin) are better dealt through your many knockbacks.

 

 

3/ You'll see a marked improvement by taking better utilities. Am abroad, but can check which ones are working out for me when back on Monday.

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Hello everyone! Snipers/Gunslingers! Sabo it is good, but maybe try Virulence?

Im try Dirty Fighting on In endurance gear in the pre season 4, while I killed time to destroy the enemy team.

Im took utilities: Ballistic Dumpers, Vital Regulators and Flash Powder in skillful

Masterfull: Augmented Shields + Pillbox Sniper. Heroic: Hold your Ground + Delpoyed Shields.

What are your ideas about this?

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Any suggestions other than that I'm out of luck. I pop everything when I'm usually focused within the first 30 seconds (i.e. diversion, defense screen, dodge, scrambling field, hunkerdown, warzone medpacs/adrenals, hightail it). If they stay on me, which isn't that hard, they usually kill me within 30 seconds.

 

What am I doing wrong? Just tell me if I'm s.o.l.

 

Currently snipers/gunslingers are "glass cannons" right now. I know exactly what you are talking about, we have no purge, no way to heal outside horrible "cool under presure" skill. Kitting is pretty much impossible since most of our defensive skills require you to be in cover to be effective.

 

I know people might say its a Learn2play issue, its not. I have been an Elite Warlord for over a year, pvp off and on pretty much since the games launch. If you don't have a healer's leg to dry hump you pretty much are screwed. I don't claim to be the best at the class or anything, but I do understand completely what you are saying.

 

I would stay Sharp Shooter since it will do the most damage in the least time, Sabo is fun, try it out if you want, but I still feel Sharp Shooter is best in ranked arena. I found the most success using the following utilities: Ballistic Dampers, Efficient Ammo, Reset Engagement, Hotwired Defense, Lay Low, Holed Up & Compounding Impact. Pretty much all the Heroic skills are good, so use what you like.

 

My best advice is just play a different class. Maybe we are supposed to be a class cannon, but the class never played like one until this expansion. :(

Edited by TonyBuss
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I know people might say its a Learn2play issue (...) have a healer's leg to dry hump you pretty much are screwed. I don't claim to be the best at the class or anything, but I do understand completely what you are saying.

 

Same. I did three Ranked solo matches and the whole "L2P noob" came to be. In one match it was especially egregious as an op and a sin both popped out at the same time. I barely got a roll out before it was over. It lasted what... 3-4GCD? And in those I broke CC and rolled and popped all my CD's but it was over before it started.

 

The second match was even worse as they stunned and then just slowed me down to prevent me from rolling. I never felt so useless since launch.

 

All the while, of course, the Guardian in my team was raging at what noobs Slinger players are.

Edited by Yojiro
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Same. I did three Ranked solo matches and the whole "L2P noob" came to be. In one match it was especially egregious as an op and a sin both popped out at the same thing. I barely got a roll out before I was over. It lasted what... 3-4GCD? And in those I broke CC and rolled and popped all my CD's but it was over before it started.

 

The second match was even worse as they stunned and then just slowed me down to prevent me from rolling. I never felt so useless since launch.

 

All the while, of course, the Guardian in my team was raging at what noobs Slinger players are.

 

He probably wasn't happy getting 2 of us (I was Tarn in those games). His temper didn't improve later in the evening:p.

 

But when the guardian's first move is to hide behind the closest object to spawn and wait until the other team perfectly align their attack on the 'slinger, there isn't much hope of doing anything useful. Trying to avoid the 0 damage/0 medals humiliation round is the first priority, then can you outlast the other team's focus target. I survived longer than a Jugg in one of those games (4 jug team!). All I had to do was use Entrench, Defense Screen, Dodge, Diversion, Scrambling Field, Pulse Detonator, Dirty Kick, Flash Grenade, Leg Shot, Roll and the WZ adrenal/medpack to survive a few seconds longer than a jug. I even managed to throw a couple of damage abilities out there too:eek:! Maybe they should take away some of the damage abilities and move the damage to the defensives :rak_03:

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He probably wasn't happy getting 2 of us (I was Tarn in those games). His temper didn't improve later in the evening:p.

 

But when the guardian's first move is to hide behind the closest object to spawn and wait until the other team perfectly align their attack on the 'slinger, there isn't much hope of doing anything useful. Trying to avoid the 0 damage/0 medals humiliation round is the first priority, then can you outlast the other team's focus target. I survived longer than a Jugg in one of those games (4 jug team!). All I had to do was use Entrench, Defense Screen, Dodge, Diversion, Scrambling Field, Pulse Detonator, Dirty Kick, Flash Grenade, Leg Shot, Roll and the WZ adrenal/medpack to survive a few seconds longer than a jug. I even managed to throw a couple of damage abilities out there too:eek:! Maybe they should take away some of the damage abilities and move the damage to the defensives :rak_03:

 

I see that guy's just a peach to arena with. Anyway, on topic: one of the most baffling things to me is that we can't roll if slowed down. I mean I can understand if we had the scoundrel double roll but I can't see a reason for this.

 

To the OP: if you have a competent group with you, you will be able to perform well but expect to be focused if there is no Sentinel/Mara in your team. Expect to blow all your def CD's first.

Regarding Solo queue, if you seriously want to rank upwards (and not going into it for the weapons only) - no. Don't do it. Roll a Sin, Sorc or a PT for that.

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one of the most baffling things to me is that we can't roll if slowed down.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. I rarely play my sniper and I haven't at all since 3.0. But the roll ability states that it purges slowing effects. What am I missing here? Was there a merc/commando on the other team?

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I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. I rarely play my sniper and I haven't at all since 3.0. But the roll ability states that it purges slowing effects. What am I missing here? Was there a merc/commando on the other team?
He's wrong - we cannot roll when rooted, but we can roll when just slowed.
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Currently snipers/gunslingers are "glass cannons" right now. I know exactly what you are talking about, we have no purge, no way to heal outside horrible "cool under presure" skill. Kitting is pretty much impossible since most of our defensive skills require you to be in cover to be effective.

 

I know people might say its a Learn2play issue, its not. I have been an Elite Warlord for over a year, pvp off and on pretty much since the games launch. If you don't have a healer's leg to dry hump you pretty much are screwed. I don't claim to be the best at the class or anything, but I do understand completely what you are saying.

 

I would stay Sharp Shooter since it will do the most damage in the least time, Sabo is fun, try it out if you want, but I still feel Sharp Shooter is best in ranked arena. I found the most success using the following utilities: Ballistic Dampers, Efficient Ammo, Reset Engagement, Hotwired Defense, Lay Low, Holed Up & Compounding Impact. Pretty much all the Heroic skills are good, so use what you like.

 

My best advice is just play a different class. Maybe we are supposed to be a class cannon, but the class never played like one until this expansion. :(

 

Look at leaderboard for yourself. Snipers and Gunslingers all do pretty bad. Only Marauder+Sentinel are worse.

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He's wrong - we cannot roll when rooted, but we can roll when just slowed.

 

I will try that again later today as I couldn't log in during the weekend, but I got the distinct feeling that the last time I wasn't able to roll I was only being affected by a Juggernaut's aoe slow as I was slowly... ponderously... moving forwards. If I am wrong however, my apologies.

Edited by Yojiro
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