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Can't see nearby Stealth Users?


DiamondsStorm

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First off, I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this thread or not, hopefully someone will correct me if it's not.

 

I play a level 60 Jedi Shadow, and use the stealth ability a lot, but I have noticed that quite often when I am guarding a node in the PVP WarZones, Some Stealth user will sneak up to me and mind Maze me, which a lot of the time results in my losing the node to the stealth opponent. But I never see them, Even non stealth users can see me if I get too close, but anyone in Stealth mode can stand right in front of me without my seeing them.

I had a battle with a Sith Assassin recently on Tatooine in the PVP area, and every time they went in stealth I could see them, this issue only seems to happen in the WarZones.

 

Is this a bug with my characters (it seems to happen with all my characters), or am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you. :)

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There's an ability that increases the users stealth level for a few seconds making them undetectable...whenever I near a node I pop it hoping to find the guard before it runs out. If you played a stealth user you would know about this ability. Or perhaps you just don't read about your class. Edited by Devilk
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There's an ability that increases the users stealth level for a few seconds making them undetectable...whenever I near a node I pop it hoping to find the guard before it runs out. If you played a stealth user you would know about this ability. Or perhaps you just don't read about your class.

Those last 2 sentences are completely unnecessary. If someone is new and doesn't know some basic things then it's a good thing that they are asking about them. It is a big thing to have overlooked, but why you gotta be so rude :rak_02:

 

@OP the ability is called Sneak for Scoundrel/Operative and Blackout for Shadow/Assassin.

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Those last 2 sentences are completely unnecessary. If someone is new and doesn't know some basic things then it's a good thing that they are asking about them. It is a big thing to have overlooked, but why you gotta be so rude :rak_02:

 

@OP the ability is called Sneak for Scoundrel/Operative and Blackout for Shadow/Assassin.

Thanks. :)

I started quite recently, so I am still learning.

 

Ah yes, Blackout, I like to use that for sneaking past AI enemies, I guess I should use it more often in Warzones.

 

Although strangely enough, I was guarding a pylon yesterday, got Mind Maze'd, broke out of it, then went straight back into stealth to buy more time to try and find the stealth enemy without them finding me, but no matter how long I looked I couldn't find them, ended up losing the node, because they could see me just fine and attacked me. :(

I have this kind of scenario happen to me all the time

Also, when I attack enemy nodes, I never see the stealth guards, I only know they are there when I come out of stealth and get attacked by them.

 

For some reason my brother spots stealth users all the time when they get near him, but I don't.

 

Surely these stealth users can't all be using Blackout when they are near me..? Lol

 

Thanks for the replies. :)

Edited by DiamondsStorm
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Vanguards / Powertechs can spec a utility point that gives them better stealth detection. Off the top of my head, I believe that shadows also have a utility point that grants better stealth level and better detection. You should make sure you are using that utility point.

 

I was messing around with my brother last night. We were dueling and I was using my shadow in stealth to sneak up on his vanguard (with better stealth detection utility point). As I approached him, he could not see me until I got to about 10m from him. From 10m, I backed away and he was able to see me out to about 15m. So, I think that you can see a stealth class further out if they start in close to you and enter stealth.

 

I always use blackout when approaching somebody (if it is not on cooldown). Also, don't stand right on the node that you are guarding. It's far too easy to sap-cap when you do that. Stand about 25m away.

 

EDIT: I just checked on this disciplines calculator. There is a skillful utility called "Misdirection" that "increases your movement speed by 15% and your effective stealth level by 5." That's vital for a shadow.

Edited by teclado
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Vanguards / Powertechs can spec a utility point that gives them better stealth detection. Off the top of my head, I believe that shadows also have a utility point that grants better stealth level and better detection. You should make sure you are using that utility point.

 

I was messing around with my brother last night. We were dueling and I was using my shadow in stealth to sneak up on his vanguard (with better stealth detection utility point). As I approached him, he could not see me until I got to about 10m from him. From 10m, I backed away and he was able to see me out to about 15m. So, I think that you can see a stealth class further out if they start in close to you and enter stealth.

 

I always use blackout when approaching somebody (if it is not on cooldown). Also, don't stand right on the node that you are guarding. It's far too easy to sap-cap when you do that. Stand about 25m away.

 

EDIT: I just checked on this disciplines calculator. There is a skillful utility called "Misdirection" that "increases your movement speed by 15% and your effective stealth level by 5." That's vital for a shadow.

 

Snipers and gunslingers can also detect much further out than any class... If you are approaching one or trying to sneak past... Always use Blackout

 

As for other classes seeing you at range, ie Maras and Juggs... That shouldn't happen... But does in some matches... I'm not sure why...

As the above post mentions, there is also a utility that increases your stealth level and detection ability... Have you picked this??

The other issue is lag... Sometimes I can get close to a node... See a stealth and mind maze them before they can see me or counter it... Other times it happens to me

One important tactic... Don't stand on the node if you are defending... Stay in an obscure place... But still in range of a speed run or teleport to the node... When you stealth out to escape another player always hit resilience, speed run, blackout if you want to get away fast and undetected... When attacking use blackout to approach... If you cc them be ready for the break and cc again straight away...you'll have to be really quick though to cap before it runs out... If they don't break and don't have full resolve, wait... There is no point in trying to cap... They will break and attack... Unless you are confident in taking them down quick... Patience is a virtue to a shadow or assassin

Last tip... Increase your camera distance to atleast 30%... It will allow you to see approaching stealth behind you

There are many other tactics... But I'm not going to give away the farm here... You'll pick them up as you see others use them against you

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protip to sapcapping stupid snipers with 30 stacks: go behind them

99% of snipers just look in front for stealthers

 

LoL... So true... That's where having your camera zoomed out past 30% for all your toons comes in handy... It allows you to see what's coming up from behind

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LoL... So true... That's where having your camera zoomed out past 30% for all your toons comes in handy... It allows you to see what's coming up from behind

 

Yeah but the sniper's 30 stealth detection stacks only face forward. they have no more rear stealth detection than anyone else.

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Yeah but the sniper's 30 stealth detection stacks only face forward. they have no more rear stealth detection than anyone else.

 

Very very true, sometimes you can hear them before you actually see them though. It's not a generalisation by any means but you can sometimes tell whether you are going to have a hard time as a sniper by that opener, the better stealthers react before....hopefully other snipers know what I mean ;)

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Tips: Take your extra stealth level utility in the first tier.

Constantly move around when you are guarding, never guard in the same spot.

Stand at a minimum of 30 meters away from the node, 45-60 if you are a shadow since you have phasewalk. You can interrupt caps with recklessness/potency force lightning/throw at 30m if necessary, or Force in balance/deathfield if you are serenity/hatred.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
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Thanks. :)

I started quite recently, so I am still learning.

 

Ah yes, Blackout, I like to use that for sneaking past AI enemies, I guess I should use it more often in Warzones.

 

Although strangely enough, I was guarding a pylon yesterday, got Mind Maze'd, broke out of it, then went straight back into stealth to buy more time to try and find the stealth enemy without them finding me, but no matter how long I looked I couldn't find them, ended up losing the node, because they could see me just fine and attacked me. :(

I have this kind of scenario happen to me all the time

Also, when I attack enemy nodes, I never see the stealth guards, I only know they are there when I come out of stealth and get attacked by them.

 

For some reason my brother spots stealth users all the time when they get near him, but I don't.

 

Surely these stealth users can't all be using Blackout when they are near me..? Lol

 

Thanks for the replies. :)

You lose because you use your CC break carelessly. Do not break a sap even if the other player is capping its an 8 second cast to cap. Its an 8 second stun and the timer starts immediately when they apply it to you. Travel time cuts 1 seconds unstealth is another second. If you allow them to sap you then they start to cap wait the stun out use that time to call. If its 2 stealth you need to be quick and focus on stopping the cap.

 

If they sap you once and you just wait it out and they dont cap, let them sap you again it fills your resolve which means they cant stun you for even longer.

Play smart and read through the tree before you even consider PVPing on a new toon. Even at lvl 10 with a brand new AC read through the tree to see whats coming. Find out your procs and as you get them, use them. Get a general feel for the class. And at higher levels you can ask a good player who plays your spec for some extra tips.

 

If you get good enough at it you can do what I do. Even if they dont ask and I noticed something that could help them out I will POLITELY let them know what I have found to work and maybe it will help them out.

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Tips: Take your extra stealth level utility in the first tier.

Constantly move around when you are guarding, never guard in the same spot.

Stand at a minimum of 30 meters away from the node, 45-60 if you are a shadow since you have phasewalk. You can interrupt caps with recklessness/potency force lightning/throw at 30m if necessary, or Force in balance/deathfield if you are serenity/hatred.

 

Waste of recklessness. You shouldnt stay ranged as a class with only 1 range move that is dependent on recklessness. Stay at 30 meters and move OFC but close the gap to interupt. If you get locked by another stealth at range you wont be able to stop the cap again

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Very very true, sometimes you can hear them before you actually see them though. It's not a generalisation by any means but you can sometimes tell whether you are going to have a hard time as a sniper by that opener, the better stealthers react before....hopefully other snipers know what I mean ;)

 

 

Also, you will find that stealth era will stand in the same places. Once you do it enough you will learn the common places to stand and it will help you find those stealthers.

 

 

In addition to what other people said about utility points for increasing stealth levels and increasing stealth detection, you should pay close attention to these quoted points. I always keep sound effects turned way up above everything else, because most times I will hear the stealth sound before a stealther becomes visible. ( I am unsure if this is an intended mechanic, or because my rig is sub par and takes longer to render things.) For your original question, that could mean when an enemy stealther is approaching, they hear the effect and then have a general idea of the area to search for you, which would be why they are finding you easier then you are them.

 

 

Also as Siris pointed out, many stealthers will end up using the same routes/hiding places to approach/guard nodes. This gives a more experienced player a better idea of where to look for you, or where to drop stealth detection abilities which can make it seem like an enemy player was able to see right through your stealth, simply because they dropped an attack right on top of you.

 

Another thing to consider would be bugs/rendering issues. As I mentioned before I play on a sub-par machine. Because of this I often encounter what could be deemed strange occurrences or buggy gameplay such as an enemy stealther not appearing when they should. Just as an example, I can often break an enemy out of stealth with an AoE only to have their lightsaber render on my screen. Giving them 20-40 seconds where I can not target them. So if you are running on a computer that is on the low end of this game (I expect 3-15 fps in WZ's depending on what is going on) you may need to start thinking of ways that you can counter this.

Edited by Hoech
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Thank you very much for all the replies everyone (I never expected to get this many :) )

I am going to have a lot of fun trying out all the new things I have learned in this thread. :)

Okay, it looks like I will have to find out more about the Potency/Recklessness, I only just found out the other day that Recklessness takes life from the enemies (I thought they were some kind of power-up, lol), so I don't have much of a clue what to do with them.

 

Also, you will find that stealth era will stand in the same places. Once you do it enough you will learn the common places to stand and it will help you find those stealthers.

 

I think this is why they are finding me so easily, I am standing too close to the pylon/turret node, I have noticed that quite a few stealth players like to stand in certain places, I am guilty of standing in those areas too.

 

If they sap you once and you just wait it out and they dont cap, let them sap you again it fills your resolve which means they cant stun you for even longer.

 

Ah, I was wondering what that little resolve bar was for, I also now know why some players become immune if I Mind Maze them too many times in one go.

Thanks. :)

 

Another thing to consider would be bugs/rendering issues. As I mentioned before I play on a sub-par machine. Because of this I often encounter what could be deemed strange occurrences or buggy gameplay such as an enemy stealther not appearing when they should. Just as an example, I can often break an enemy out of stealth with an AoE only to have their lightsaber render on my screen. Giving them 20-40 seconds where I can not target them. So if you are running on a computer that is on the low end of this game (I expect 3-15 fps in WZ's depending on what is going on) you may need to start thinking of ways that you can counter this.

 

I think this might be my issue, I am working on leveling up a Light Sided Sith Assassin at the moment, and in the lower levels of PVP when there isn't as much lag, I was able to see another stealth player yesterday, so it could be my PC just can't render things as fast as it needs to, I quite often get the same problem you mentioned in your reply, I quite often see just someone's lightsaber when they come out of stealth by AoE.

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Ah, I was wondering what that little resolve bar was for, I also now know why some players become immune if I Mind Maze them too many times in one go.

Thanks. :)

Two hits of your mind maze and they will be "white-barred" (full resolve). You can't hit them with it three times in a row. Also, if you use it twice, you won't be able to hit them with your two second stun (the one that can only be used when you are in stealth - forget the name) when you have to engage them. Just something to be aware of.

 

Also, knockbacks (e.g. force wave) will add a few resolve points. Sever force (2 second root, green symbol, DoT) and other slows do not. If your target has full resolve, you can stop them with sever force for two seconds, but that can only happen once every 9 seconds.

 

I know that in the heat of battle, sometimes I don't notice that my target is white-barred and I end up wasting a stun on them. :o Sometimes their white bar is depleting and almost gone, so it can pay to wait the extra second or two or three prior to using your stun / knockback.

Edited by teclado
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Also, you will find that stealth era will stand in the same places. Once you do it enough you will learn the common places to stand and it will help you find those stealthers.

 

Yes... Which is why if you are a good stealth player you don't stand in those positions or at least don't stand still

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Yeah but the sniper's 30 stealth detection stacks only face forward. they have no more rear stealth detection than anyone else.

 

This is true... Even more reason to position yourself properly as a sniper... Try to have something at your back or some LOS... Anything that makes it more difficult for the stealth to get to you with out you seeing them

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Two hits of your mind maze and they will be "white-barred" (full resolve). You can't hit them with it three times in a row. Also, if you use it twice, you won't be able to hit them with your two second stun (the one that can only be used when you are in stealth - forget the name) when you have to engage them. Just something to be aware of.

 

Also, knockbacks (e.g. force wave) will add a few resolve points. Sever force (2 second root, green symbol, DoT) and other slows do not. If your target has full resolve, you can stop them with sever force for two seconds, but that can only happen once every 9 seconds.

 

I know that in the heat of battle, sometimes I don't notice that my target is white-barred and I end up wasting a stun on them. :o Sometimes their white bar is depleting and almost gone, so it can pay to wait the extra second or two or three prior to using your stun / knockback.

 

Lots of people who get mind mazed don't try to recap straight away... Which means their resolve bar drops... If they do this, try to time your second one... Sometimes you are able to get a 3rd one in because they delay capping to find you or are scared you'll stun them again... These are bad players... But no reason you can't take advantage of it

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Stealth detection works best on a forward cone in general. Because you detect people by looking at them usually, mechanics wise that's the sense of it. So keep actually looking around. Snipers can do this while staying in cover by starting & stopping channels of Suppressive Fire I think (it turns your character around while in cover), and you have the additional bonus of possibly revealing stealth with AOE damage.

 

Also, for defending against stealth as stealth, stay a good distance away from the node as you look around. Gives you enough time to wake up from sap and stop cap if you do get sapped while in stealth, and they'll need to scan a larger area to detect you if they are scouring for a stealth defender first.

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