DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) If you buy a cartel pack, and you get an item from that cartel pack, that item is yours right? But now it doesn't seem to be the case. People bought the cartel packs so they can win the slot machine. The slot machine was probably the most sought after item in the game of all time because of the rewards (at the time). This made more people buy more cartel packs because everyone* wanted a chance to get the slot machine. And then soon after, because of a vocal forum minority (which do not represent the entire playerbase), Bioware catered to THEIR demands, "made changes accordingly" and nerfed the hell out of the product that people paid for. They also said the slot machine was not bugged, using it wasn't an exploit. What does this say about future items in the cartel packs? Does anyone remember the Emergency Medical Table? Where the item and an emote were shown to be in collections, only for people to open packs and discover they weren't even in the packs? Biowares lesson should have been learned then. But obviously they seem to have forgotten quality control and are too busy rushing to make items so they can take your money. IMO, the slot machines that came out before should have been removed from the cartel packs, and a different slot machine (the nerfed one we have now) should have been put on a vendor for 1 credit. Instead, you completely changed an item that people paid for. And for that, I have lost all confidence and trust in Bioware entirely in regards to the cartel market. Their lack of communication and reassurance to the community is a joke. Thank you for reading. * do not take literally Edited January 26, 2015 by DartDaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The slot machine was an exploit. It wasn't cheating, but it was exploiting the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I would agree that this casts a certain amount of doubt over anything sold in packs....could work one way and then quickly be changed to operate in some other way. That is a risk that is a reality when buying the packs IMO, and it is one that Bioware that has made a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 The slot machine was an exploit. It wasn't cheating, but it was exploiting the game. Bioware said it wasn't bugged. They also said using it wasn't an exploit. Bioware released an item into the game. People used the item how it was intended to be used - putting coins into the machine. Nobody broke the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Bioware said it wasn't bugged. They also said using it wasn't an exploit. Bioware released an item into the game. People used the item how it was intended to be used - putting coins into the machine. Nobody broke the rules. And still they decided the drops were to good, so they changed, as announced. In MMOs things change, thats part of the game. you are paying your sub and still if BW thinks your played class is to strong, they will nerf it. Edited January 26, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuruVII Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Bioware also stated they would monitor the situation and adjust the machines accordingly, They did exactly that. There was no reason to assume that the machine wouldn't be changed after the havoc it wrecked on GTN prices and gathering crew skills in general. Edited January 26, 2015 by GuruVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Bioware said it wasn't bugged. They also said using it wasn't an exploit. Bioware released an item into the game. People used the item how it was intended to be used - putting coins into the machine. Nobody broke the rules. Sorry, but it was exploiting the game. Did they over-nerf it? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it was clearly broken. Not gonna argue over something that should be common sense so I bid you farewell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 And still they decided the drops were to good, so they changed, as announced. They said they would make changes accordingly. However they didn't announce what those changes would be. I do think the odd of winning when the slot came out was a bit over the top, but Bioware have nerfed it to hell and it's just added fuel to the fire. And I think they've said there won't be any more changes to i t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry, but it was exploiting the game. Did they over-nerf it? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it was clearly broken. Not gonna argue over something that should be common sense so I bid you farewell. It wasn't exploiting the game. Bioware said using it wasn't an exploit. Putting coins into the slot machine isn't exploiting the game because that's how it was intended to be used. All of this is entirely Biowares fault. I'm sorry you can't see common sense. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) They said they would make changes accordingly. However they didn't announce what those changes would be. I do think the odd of winning when the slot came out was a bit over the top, but Bioware have nerfed it to hell and it's just added fuel to the fire. And I think they've said there won't be any more changes to i t. No, they were not a bit over the top, anything but a 90% (or more) nerf on jawa scraps would have made crew skills worthless. You guys did not get the machine because it was fun to play or just for having one. No you guys started to get those machines because they yielded easy profit. Everyone with a clear mind would have seen that nerf coming. Edited January 26, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Bioware also stated they would monitor the situation and adjust the machines accordingly, They did exactly that. There was no reason to assume that the machine wouldn't be changed after the havoc it wrecked on GTN prices and gathering crew skills in general. We all knew there was going to be a change for it, but we there was no reason to assume they'd outright murder the thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokimogor Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We all knew there was going to be a change for it, but we there was no reason to assume they'd outright murder the thing Welcome to Swtor clearly you are new since there is a long tradition of over nerfing things around here. The game really is a great one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargal Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You didn't put slot machine in the title to your thread, so I actually read the OP until I saw "slot machine." Is this bait and switch? Can I have my time back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Bioware said it wasn't bugged. They also said using it wasn't an exploit. Bioware released an item into the game. People used the item how it was intended to be used - putting coins into the machine. Nobody broke the rules. Exactly. The only people saying it was an exploit are Ravager exploiters trying to widen the guilt pool. We all knew there was going to be a change for it, but we there was no reason to assume they'd outright murder the thing Exactly so, again. Edited January 26, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docmal Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry, but it was exploiting the game. Did they over-nerf it? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it was clearly broken. Not gonna argue over something that should be common sense so I bid you farewell. You obviously do not know what an exploit is in the context of a video game. The slot machine was being used exactly as it was intended. Pay coins, get stuff. The drop rates were as designed. Their was a backlash from the community, Bioware listened and they adjusted the drop rate. There was NO EXPLOITING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you buy a cartel pack, and you get an item from that cartel pack, that item is yours right?... Nope, it is not, see the TOS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuruVII Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We all knew there was going to be a change for it, but we there was no reason to assume they'd outright murder the thing They didn't murder them, murdering them would mean the machines no longer served their primary purpose, but seeing how their purpose was to provide access to older cartel rep and the slot machines still do that, I really don't see how one can say the machines were murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Exactly. The only people saying it was an exploit are Ravager exploiters trying to widen the guilt pool..... When are the executions btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The slot machine was an exploit. It wasn't cheating, but it was exploiting the game. Bioware clearly said it was not an exploit. However what was exploited was our trust that Bioware would do the right thing, instead they over reacted and nerfed something into nothing. The outrage in this is undeniable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 A few likely accurate points here. 1) It was not an exploit. No amount of hyperbole is going to make that silly contention true.2) Though it did have an impact on the market in it's original form, it was nowhere near as substantial as some folks would like others to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) If you buy a cartel pack, and you get an item from that cartel pack, that item is yours right? There are two things to consider, what players actually own, and what it is in BW's best business interest to give players the sense that they own. You do not own an item you get from the Cartel Packs. You do not even own a copy of the game. Even as a subscriber, you are only paying for a license to use the game. Your subscription is an admissions ticket to the digital playground that BW owns, your Cartel Coin purchases are what you pay in order to get to play with some of the digital toys that BW owns. You never acquire any ownership rights to anything you 'purchase' in this game, including the CSM. That being said, it is still good business for software companies to give players a general sense of security and integrity in their digital purchases - people are just more likely to make those purchases the more it 'feels' like they actually acquired something. But in the end, promoting that quasi-'consumer confidence' is just one of the multiple factors that a game company has to consider whenever they are looking at making changes to an in-game item or feature. In this case, they made the decision that the benefit (really a mitigation of harm) that came from correcting a problem they found with the CSM's payouts outweighed the damage that it would potentially do to that (ultimately false) sense of ownership that they generally want to encourage. Edited January 26, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Being able to create a grade 11 crystal in 1 minute (1 machine) or 20 seconds (3 machines) has no substantial impact on the game? Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Being able to create a grade 11 crystal in 1 minute (1 machine) or 20 seconds (3 machines) has no substantial impact on the game? Ok Yeah, but good luck getting a grade 11 crystal now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taramayne Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry, but my opinion is the only correct one.. Did they over-nerf it? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it was clearly broken. Not gonna argue over something when I know i won't win so I bid you farewell. ..fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yeah, but good luck getting a grade 11 crystal now... No luck needed, just time. It is endgame gear, after that, you won't need much else crafting wise. It needs to take some time and it needs to be somewhat rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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