grombrinda Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 nope, people with macro programs were abusing it 24/7 on multiple accounts. i saw on other websites people brag about having vaults and vaults full of grade 11 mats from the slot machine. now imagine a crafter who ran crewskills and now that stupid machine made his mats worth a hell of a lot less and made it worthless to run missions. And the people with vats and vats of these materials would not have made that much of a profit , if they had just toned down and not nuke the slot machine, because prices would have eventually stabilized. But now with the nuke...those people with vats and vats of those same material stand to make a major profit...is this getting through your head ??...You are making the stand that "crafters" are losing a profit when they are not...They one who are losing profits are not "crafters" but people who just run missions to get materials. They don't craft a damn thing! I have almost every craft maxed except for slicing, and I loved the slot machine. And yes I agreed that it needed toning down. Not a nuke down like they got. Now as per your example, the cheaters once again will make a profit ....you understand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 nope, people with macro programs were abusing it 24/7 on multiple accounts. i saw on other websites people brag about having vaults and vaults full of grade 11 mats from the slot machine. now imagine a crafter who ran crewskills and now that stupid machine made his mats worth a hell of a lot less and made it worthless to run missions. Why are people going on and on and "Having to do missions"? I really want to know why they think that those missions are the end all be all of being able to get to the end result. If you feel so strongly about missions, why not take all jawa mats completely out of the game? Take away getting purple or blues from reverse engineering. Make all mats bind to legacy? Then you can have to do all the missions for mats until your eyes bleed. I dont understand why this archaic mentality of not changing to something more efficient? What if the slots were not called a slot machine? What if they called it "Material Generator to replace Missions"? Would you accept it? What if they made all grade 11 missions complete in 10--15 minutes? What if the jawa vendor gave out weeklys to get your choice? I am so sick of hearing "Well missions are there so we can never change it". Thats a Richard Cranium excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 nope, people with macro programs were abusing it 24/7 on multiple accounts. i saw on other websites people brag about having vaults and vaults full of grade 11 mats from the slot machine. now imagine a crafter who ran crewskills and now that stupid machine made his mats worth a hell of a lot less and made it worthless to run missions. I see, and which people were bragging about having vaults and vaults full of grade 11 mats, the crafters or the mat barons? Crafters didn't need vaults and vaults of mats, because you can only craft so fast. In a market with a slot machine, even a crafter without one would benefit more than under the current system. Current system crafter has to buy mats off the GTN for 40k or run their own crew missions which might be hit or miss for 4k. With a slot machine, let's say mats cost 1800 to obtain with the slot machine for example. Crafters benefit from the slot machine since it's a lower mat cost and not time intensive, those guys sitting on vaults and vaults of mats aren't selling a single one if the slot machine exists so they are the only ones caring to have it nerfed. You are blatantly ignoring the fact that every hardcore crafter in this forum has been telling you they loved the machine just for the reasons I've stated. It allows them to get out from under the mat barons' collective thumbs and set a fair price for crafted goods at a pace that can fulfill demand. I'm not afraid of competition, why are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Why are people going on and on and "Having to do missions"? I really want to know why they think that those missions are the end all be all of being able to get to the end result. If you feel so strongly about missions, why not take all jawa mats completely out of the game? Take away getting purple or blues from reverse engineering. Make all mats bind to legacy? Then you can have to do all the missions for mats until your eyes bleed. I dont understand why this archaic mentality of not changing to something more efficient? What if the slots were not called a slot machine? What if they called it "Material Generator to replace Missions"? Would you accept it? What if they made all grade 11 missions complete in 10--15 minutes? What if the jawa vendor gave out weeklys to get your choice? I am so sick of hearing "Well missions are there so we can never change it". Thats a Richard Cranium excuse. They are trying to convince you of how hard it is to get the materials thus the high cost on gtn, though technically you are sending your comps out for an hour or so and doing nothing else. The people using this argument the most are the ones that sell on the gtn the most. Most of the people that craft for fun had no problem , other that to tweak the odds a bit, with the slots to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatT Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I see another fallacy in the OP. That the people selling an item on the GTN has a realistic idea of what it cost to make in the first place. So often, as a crafter, I find people selling items for less than cost (undercutting and undercutting the undercutters), even if you don't buy your mats, but only run missions. You point this out and they just stare at you with blank doe-eyes and dumb stares like...what do you mean, cost of inputs? An esample: The augment slot. They maY* take into account the mats to make this item, but what they won't look at is the cost to make the 10 items you must reverse engineer to get the augmentation slot component. Those costs are overlooked. And so there is an ever-downward spiral of the price of something ont he GTN (of some things) to the point where it's actually cheaper to buy it than make it, even if you farm all your own mats. What's wrong with this picture. Instead of pointing out that most people don't have a 4 year degree in economics, how about pointing out that prob half of these people live with mommy and/or daddy and have never written a rent check, paid a utility bill or have a clue abot keeping something int he account for the fees that are taken out 3 days before payday. I've grown used to the stupidity. But you're trying to apply logic to it. Your macro lesson is well taken, as it is, so long as we factor out people. But then, that' sthe problem with economics in general. Markets are not logical, they are only existent so long as there are people, and PEOPLE are illogical. And it is groups of people who make markets. Until someone can prove to me elsewise, I find economics to be something less than pure science, based mostly on the fickleness of the people involved. And if you want to argue, please ask yourself how 2008 economic crisis was ever logical, except in that greed was behind it, and greed is an inherently fickle, illogical human emotion. There are no markets. There are only congolomerates of buyers and sellers. And they can unbalance things that appear reliably stable. Like a housing market. But we can have this argument elsewhere. Just remember. What is a market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 And if you want to argue, please ask yourself how 2008 economic crisis was ever logical, It was a major factor that the Democrats made it possible for people (Mostly poor from inner cities) with no equity and or capital to purchase a mortgage (house) with no financial backing and they could not afford and had no business buying, let alone forcing banks to allow these people to buy houses. And they forced the banks to accept this! Take that out of the equation and its highly likely that would have never happened. And dont get me started on them bailing out the auto manufacturers! Something the government had no business being involved in! We as a nation should have let them go under. Another would have risen in the place to replace them. So glad Mi went right to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYBERzan Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 exactly right it's pretty draining to try and read such ignorant ramblings of the op. takes forever to get to the point and it's not based in any proper knowledge of free market economics. Ignorance requires a lack of knowledge, my A's in every undergraduate level economics class implies otherwise. What did you find incorrect? I admit the writing wasn't the best I've ever presented, but I did type it on my phone. - I await your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ignorance requires a lack of knowledge, my A's in every undergraduate level economics class implies otherwise. What did you find incorrect? I admit the writing wasn't the best I've ever presented, but I did type it on my phone. - I await your response. I loved it. I am thinking any nay sayers either A dont understand it or B want to deny it. Either way, it is irrefutable. Great job mate, both easy to understand and extremely descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I still want to know why people seem to think having the crafting market dominated by a cash shop item could ever be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I still want to know why people seem to think having the crafting market dominated by a cash shop item could ever be a good idea. "Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post /Agreed. It was them, not us, that decided to put mats into the loot table. If they had not done that... then they would not have had to nerf the slots back to the stoneage. Once they realized their mistake, they went in the extreme opposite direction. What I found by combing through LinkedIn is that there has indeed been a lot of musical chairs and seat assignment changes in the management team at Bioware over the last 9 months. The people that led the development and release of RoTHC and GSF (which were generally well accepted by most players) have moved on to other things. Whoever they put in charge of Strongholds and Revan expac projects .... clearly is not up to the task. And I'm sorry, but the Community Support team has lost their way, with no signs of recovery that I can see. I simply do not trust anything they say moving forward. A shame really. They were on a really good roll for a while, but they have lost the recipe (or the cooks are completely clueless). For players, the end result is the same..... game getting worse after each patch. When issued two feet, and with it generally accepted that to walk well.. you need two feet.... the last thing you should be doing is taking an assault rifle to your feet. I have thought about it for a few days now, and while I still enjoy the game... I'm going to stop plugging game time cards into my account. Once the sub expires, then I will simply play my other MMOs and give this one the little digital birdie. I will not play it free, I will not play it subbed. Not because I have any emotional attachment to the slots, but rather on principle. I really don't care much about the slot machine one way or the other, but I do care about a lack of integrity. I get that they have to be careful what they communicate and how.. but I'm sorry.. it is not a license to lie to the players. Nor is it a license to wrap every bug in waffles and toss them around the forum as CM-Facts. If they cannot even figure out in advance if something is going to have a negative impact on the game, then things will get progressively worse. Because they clearly are lost, and have no idea where they are. If they cannot figure out how to actually balance something that is so simple to adjust without resorting to draconian measures, then things will get progressively worse. Because they are clearly lost and have no idea where they are or what they are doing. If they can be so dishonest in their communications to players on basic and fundamental inquiries about "is something working as intended or not", then what exactly is the point in playing their game, much less putting money into it? IMO.. no point at all. The silence this week, in the face of widely discussed dissatisfaction with how they have handled this latest debacle ----> extremely telling IMO. So with that understanding... I'm going to perma-log out of the forums and let my game time lapse. I wish the best of luck to those that choose to stay and struggle through the growing ineptitude on the part of Bioware. I will miss discussions with some of you who have been here a long time. Many great discussions and disagreements mixed in with the usual player hyperbole-de-jour. Cheers. " Straight from her.......if you can make sense of this then you would know the furor over the item..... Edited January 25, 2015 by grombrinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, Eric is lurking around, so either he has been told not to comment on this issue, or does not care to comment on this issue. I suspect it is the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmdShiva Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I see, and which people were bragging about having vaults and vaults full of grade 11 mats, the crafters or the mat barons? You can just as well ask which people were bragging about having vaults and vaults full of Jawa Junk from the slot machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yep, still 100% agree with the OP and want the Devs to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well, Eric is lurking around, so either he has been told not to comment on this issue, or does not care to comment on this issue. I suspect it is the latter. I would think it's the former, not the latter. Especially with mouth breathers screaming lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I would think it's the former, not the latter. Especially with mouth breathers screaming lawsuit. Can you really expect to have a serious conversation or be taken seriously when you insult people like that? "mouth breathers"? Really? Are you 13 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Can you really expect to have a serious conversation or be taken seriously when you insult people like that? "mouth breathers"? Really? Are you 13 years old? You should come to my server and see him in action... He's just as abrasive and combatant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Can you really expect to have a serious conversation or be taken seriously when you insult people like that? "mouth breathers"? Really? Are you 13 years old? I honestly don't expect to have a serious discussion when it comes to the Slot Machines. People are blindly enraged or mildly amused, there is hardly any people in the grey area. You are one of those people that has embarrassed themselves over the last week, anyhow. Who are you to call me 13 years old when you have swung wildly from being enraged about a nerf you knew was coming to pleading for a refund or some sort of reparation over an in-game item. You appear to be a child throwing a tantrum in every slot machine thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You should come to my server and see him in action... He's just as abrasive and combatant. LOL Hollyhox, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 LOL Hollyhox, is that you? Nope, it's Manze.. Please, I can spell alot better than holly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Nope, it's Manze.. Please, I can spell alot better than holly. It was a joke! You were able to make a whole coherent sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I would think it's the former, not the latter. Especially with mouth breathers screaming lawsuit. Could be, though the lawsuit thing is likely a wet bag of mud being used as a baseball bat IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Could be, though the lawsuit thing is likely a wet bag of mud being used as a baseball bat IMO. Most rational people would agree with you, but they've already put their foot in their mouth with not calling the drop rate an exploit, so it's probably some damage control. Don't want to inadvertently say anything else that could be potentially used against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 And has any of the devs read the op's posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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