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Let's talk about Accuracy in PvP


Pferdebremse

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Here's the thing:

 

According to Bioware the DPS numbers that the various classes and specs can dish out are balanced around PvE.

 

In PvE bosses have a default 10% defense to melee/ranged and 10% resist to tech/force.

 

This means ALL classes and specs that are playing a DPS role have to stack their accuracy to reach 110%.

 

Now in PvP things look different:

 

The only default defense is 5% melee/ranged for all characters and 10% for inquisitors/consulars (unnecessary if you ask me)

 

Now here comes the unfair part:

 

Some specs can completely ignore accuracy cause they deal pretty much nothing but yellow damage (Sorcs, Concealment Operative etc.) while others like Gunslingers/Snipers have to sacrifice up to 3 enhancements + 1 augment or 4 enhancements for Accuracy to overcome the default 5% melee/ranged defenses.

 

This needs fixing, here's two possible solutions:

 

1. Give everyone a default 5% tech/force resistance

 

2. remove the default defenses entirely.

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Here's the thing:

 

Some specs can completely ignore accuracy cause they deal pretty much nothing but yellow damage (Sorcs, Concealment Operative etc.) while others like Gunslingers/Snipers have to sacrifice up to 3 enhancements + 1 augment or 4 enhancements for Accuracy to overcome the default 5% melee/ranged defenses.

 

This needs fixing, here's two possible solutions:

 

1. Give everyone a default 5% tech/force resistance

 

2. remove the default defenses entirely.

Here's the thing:

 

Classes like Concealment Ops NEED the benefit of the extra stats without having to gear for Accuracy.

Why you ask?

Ops have the worst defensive cooldowns in the game. CC an Op and his chances of survival are reduced to minimal chances. Root them and they cannot roll removing one. We have to waste a talent point on Counterstrike to get a miniscule movement only control effect once every 45 seconds that usually gets reapplied instantly. Everyone has a CC breaker - doesn't need to be mentioned and doesn't get any special considerations. The only other def cooldown Ops get is a 3 second melee/ranged dodge that does NOTHING what so ever for tech/force attacks and IF you spec into yet another point in the talent tree you can get a 20% damage mitigation on Stim Boost.

 

Looking at nearly every other class we don't have a knock back, a knock down (anymore it was removed), we also don't have a 30m jump or pull or anything else that's useful enough to use except Ghost IF we aren't CC'd.

 

Now that being said the reason we NEED the lack of accuracy is to use those extra points in something more useful because once we hit a player and are no longer stealthed we become super squishy. Being vulnerable means you pop one of your cooldowns and mitigate our burst damage and we become next to useless.

i cant tell you the number of times I've fought sorcs/seers and couldn't kill them. Backstab they bubble. Soon as bubble is gone they burst run while healing. what good is it to hit you for the highest possible burst damage if you just run away and heal 100% while out ranging my damage and perma slow me. or Powertech shoot burst me before i can even target you. Or Ravage me into oblivion?

 

Its not as OP as you think to not need accuracy.

 

Stop crying.

Edited by AvatarNL
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Agreed 100% with the OP. The current state of the classes that are benefitting from this aside, it's a dumb thing to have to balance around. Especially when some specs not only have the drawback of losing out on the damage when their melee/ranged attacks don't connect, but also lose out on certain procs (probably most noticable for Arsenal and IO but can also happen for some others, such as Carnage). Some specs (like Concealment and pyro PT) might need some compensation if either of the OPs suggestions were to happen, which in my opinion would be better than the way it is now where these specs - and others that are in a far better state - get a plain stat advantage. Edited by diadox
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This isn't really the case. The overwhelming majority of white attacks are "special", meaning they already have a native 100% rating. The accuracy buff from companions and skill tree is enough to get over the hump with no gear adds..

 

So...

 

:confused::confused:

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This isn't really the case. The overwhelming majority of white attacks are "special", meaning they already have a native 100% rating. The accuracy buff from companions and skill tree is enough to get over the hump with no gear adds..

 

So...

 

:confused::confused:

 

White attacks can be defended. Everyone has a 5% defense chance. Yellow attacks can be resisted. Almost no one has a resist chance.

 

That's OP's point. Not that he is right to think of it as unbalanced.

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White attacks can be defended. Everyone has a 5% defense chance. Yellow attacks can be resisted. Almost no one has a resist chance.

 

That's OP's point. Not that he is right to think of it as unbalanced.

 

I'm questioning relevance, since native defense is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and the OP thinks he needs to add accuracy in PvP for any class.

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This isn't really the case. The overwhelming majority of white attacks are "special", meaning they already have a native 100% rating. The accuracy buff from companions and skill tree is enough to get over the hump with no gear adds..

 

So...

 

:confused::confused:

 

- All force/tech attacks have 100% accuracy

- All relevant melee/ranged attacks have 100% accuracy (basic attacks have 90%, but that's hardly an issue)

- Everybody have +0% force/tech defense (resist)

- Everybody except sorcs and sins have +5% melee/ranged defense by default, sorcs and sins have +10%

- Maxed companion gives +1% accuracy

 

Accuracy/defense is added to/subtracted from the base 100%, leaving us with the following chance to hit (assuming no accuarcy beyond that of the companion boost and no defense beyond the base):

- Force/tech attacks: 101(100)% against everybody

- Melee/ranged attacks: 96% against everybody except inquisitors, 91% against inquisitors

Edited by diadox
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Here's the thing:

 

Classes like Concealment Ops NEED the benefit of the extra stats without having to gear for Accuracy.

Why you ask?

Its not as OP as you think to not need accuracy.

 

Stop crying.

 

Basically this. Concealment only does damage when we're on top of you; if you're a decent player, we spend a lot of time not on top of you.

 

There are other classes that don't need to be right next to you to hurt you that benefit from tech/force. There's a reason they're fotm, and lack of accuracy isn't one of them.

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Yes, I understand that, but do you realize that even 91% is such overwhelming odds that the difference is irrelevant in PVP? Those types of odds pan out in PVE where stats become somewhat normalized over bosses with millions of HP.

 

And that is assuming zero buffs from specs and companions.

 

OP claims he needs gear with accuracy, which is entirely untrue, and Force/Tech heavy classes have to deal with the same thing because their defense and lack of resistance is identical.

 

And this is coming from a Guardian tank, MM Sniper, and Carnie... It's fine... Move along....

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Yes, I understand that, but do you realize that even 91% is such overwhelming odds that the difference is irrelevant in PVP? Those types of odds pan out in PVE where stats become somewhat normalized over bosses with millions of HP.

 

And that is assuming zero buffs from specs and companions.

 

OP claims he needs gear with accuracy, which is entirely untrue, and Force/Tech heavy classes have to deal with the same thing because their defense and lack of resistance is identical.

 

And this is coming from a Guardian tank, MM Sniper, and Carnie... It's fine... Move along....

9% isn't as little as you make it out to be.

 

Yes, 9% chance to miss isn't something that'll happen all the time, but it's frequent enough for it to be something you can count on happening several times in a game. I don't mind rng where both outcomes have relatively equal chances of happening (like dcds), because then the least likely of the two isn't really that out of the ordinary. I don't mind rng where the probability of the unlikely of the two outcomes is really abysmal, because I can live with it happening once every blue moon. What I do mind is when the chances of the more likely outcome are so high that I start relying on it happening, but not high enough to keep it from failing to happen on a fairly regular basis.

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Here's the thing:

 

According to Bioware the DPS numbers that the various classes and specs can dish out are balanced around PvE.

 

In PvE bosses have a default 10% defense to melee/ranged and 10% resist to tech/force.

 

This means ALL classes and specs that are playing a DPS role have to stack their accuracy to reach 110%.

 

Now in PvP things look different:

 

The only default defense is 5% melee/ranged for all characters and 10% for inquisitors/consulars (unnecessary if you ask me)

 

Now here comes the unfair part:

 

Some specs can completely ignore accuracy cause they deal pretty much nothing but yellow damage (Sorcs, Concealment Operative etc.) while others like Gunslingers/Snipers have to sacrifice up to 3 enhancements + 1 augment or 4 enhancements for Accuracy to overcome the default 5% melee/ranged defenses.

 

This needs fixing, here's two possible solutions:

 

1. Give everyone a default 5% tech/force resistance

 

2. remove the default defenses entirely.

 

Why stop there? Lets talk about tanks getting an innate 10% accuracy for their stance, yet using full dps gear. :rak_03:

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9% isn't as little as you make it out to be.

 

Yes, 9% chance to miss isn't something that'll happen all the time, but it's frequent enough for it to be something you can count on happening several times in a game. I don't mind rng where both outcomes have relatively equal chances of happening (like dcds), because then the least likely of the two isn't really that out of the ordinary. I don't mind rng where the probability of the unlikely of the two outcomes is really abysmal, because I can live with it happening once every blue moon. What I do mind is when the chances of the more likely outcome are so high that I start relying on it happening, but not high enough to keep it from failing to happen on a fairly regular basis.

Good luck quantifying that in PvP. It just doesn't happen due to that. Accuracy debuffs, and Defense rating increases are why people "miss". Those are huge outliers that impact the Accuracy v. Defense equation, where it's noticeable. So considering that, the fact that no one is ever in a normalized state where probability percentage pans out, and the very finite levels of HP (compared to simulated boss HP), there is not one legitimate way you can say the delta not "fair", let alone impactful.

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I'm questioning relevance, since native defense is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and the OP thinks he needs to add accuracy in PvP for any class.

 

Native defense is actually relevant. Special attacks have 100% accuracy, but against a target with 5% defense that means they have a 5% mischance, or 10% miss chance against inquisitors.

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