Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[LadyVix]

Im still actually waiting for the cop to arrest me see...I was doin a buck twenty, oh and my tail lights were out...what are they gonna do? no one witnessed it. Hell I could have even made it up, but the cop still cant arrest me.

 

If you're going that fast they're not going to chase you. A speed thingy clocks your speed, a camera take a picture of your license plate, and a cop visits your home after you crawl into bed thinking you got away clean.

 

Technology... sometimes it works for you, sometimes it works against you.

 

Damn LadyVix, now I feel like an a**! Sorry

No biggie.

Edited January 14, 2015 by LadyVix

[BuriDogshin]

Have I done those things? Yes I have, but if I were ever caught doing so, I would admit my error and accept the consequences of my actions. ... I once got pulled over after leaving a club. Yes I was drunk, but when the officer asked me, I admit that I had been drinking.

So, it seems that just like a lot of the exploiters, you have broken rules (in your case laws and in a way that put other people's lives at risk) when you thought you would not be punished for doing so.

 

Being willing to accept the consequences doesn't make you any different than them, because whatever consequences BioWare imposes, the exploiters knew going in they would have to accept those consequences. Many, like you, just thought there would not be any.

 

And admitting the infraction shows little moral fortitude when you know BioWare has the data to prove you did it, plus doing so publicly may interfere with BioWare's likely intent to keep the who and how of sanctions confidential.

 

So what difference is there between you and the exploiters other than which rules you chose to break? How are you morally or ethically differentiable from them?

Edited January 14, 2015 by BuriDogshin

[EzraFett]

You care enough about this game to drop $200 on gambling boxes more than once, but not enough to be able to beat a relatively easy ops enough to get the gear legitimately? I'm confused.

 

you win the interwebs

[LadyVix]

So, it seems that just like a lot of the exploiters, you have broken rules (in your case laws and in a way that put other people's lives at risk) when you thought you would not be punished for doing so.

 

Being willing to accept the consequences doesn't make you any different than them, because whatever consequences BioWare imposes, the exploiters knew going in they would have to accept those consequences. Many, like you, just thought there would not be any.

 

And admitting the infraction shows little moral fortitude when you know BioWare has the data to prove you did it, plus doing so publicly may interfere with BioWare's likely intent to keep the who and how of sanctions confidential.

 

So what difference is there between you and the exploiters other than which rules you chose to break? How are you morally or ethically differentiable from them?

 

Yeah, I broke the law 46 years ago. (approx 1968) I'm not perfect, but I learned from my mistakes and have remained "clean" ever since. I'm not better than anyone. I'm just more straightforward and honest than most.

 

If you want to brand me an irresponsible lawbreaker that's certainly your prerogative, but what would you have me do at this point, ignore the world around me, or work to make this one just a little bit better?

[BuriDogshin]

If you want to brand me an irresponsible lawbreaker that's certainly your prerogative, but what would you have me do at this point, ignore the world around me, or work to make this one just a little bit better?

I'm not branding you as anything, I am just encouraging introspection. And besides the debatable question of whether sanctions or forum posts will have any noticeable effect on whether SWTOR is a better place to play in the future, if you really want to make the world a better place, there are probably more productive forums for employing your substantial intelligence and eloquence than an MMO forum.

 

Me, I will honestly admit that I'm not posting here to make the world better. I just enjoy the conversation.

[EzraFett]

The tears of those exploiters worrying themselves sick sustains me. I wish I could bottle them and carry them around like stimpacks!

 

You broke the rules! Many of you now say" if they ban me I will just leave the game and never come back". That is childish. I bet you have said that at least a dozen times about this game and here you are.

 

I am in a raiding guild. I did not exploit, I am better than that. Some in my guild did exploit, and have been chastised severely because of it. I hope they all leave, one already did. I don't want to spend time raiding with people that cheat. What fun is raiding if you cheat to get gear? I just don't get it. Do you just stand around the fleet and show off like a peacock? Here is a hint, most don't care. Or do you go into raids with people who didn't cheat and brag about your DPS? Do you know how to get out of circles? OMG how many people are geared out in 198's now? People will think they know what they are doing when in reality they just cheat and all they know how to do is click to pick up loot. Please Bioware remove the ill gotten gains, at least, so people are not confused into thinking these cheaters know how to raid. Bans would be nice as well. Or how about take their gear and give them a non removable name tag that says "cheater".

[ivanhedgehog]

If you're going that fast they're not going to chase you. A speed thingy clocks your speed, a camera take a picture of your license plate, and a cop visits your home after you crawl into bed thinking you got away clean.

 

Technology... sometimes it works for you, sometimes it works against you.

 

 

No biggie.

 

there are limits to that tech. I helped build some of the prototype systems for that.

[deezOneTenTen]

Do you ever drive at 65MPH in a 55MPH zone? Do you do it because all the other cars are doing it too? If a cop decided to give only you a speeding ticket when you were only going as fast as everyone else, how would you feel?

 

Cops generally do not give people speeding tickets when all the traffic is doing 65 in a 55 zone. And there are good reasons for that. Enforcement of the rules all the time never happens, not in a game, and not in RL. Nor should it.

 

Do you never exceed the speed limit, always come to a full stop at a stop sign, never change lanes without signalling, and never jaywalk? Or do you break those rules sometimes because you figure you won't be punished for it?

 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read and you FULLY have no idea of what you are talking about. People get pulled over all the time even though there are other cars going as fast or faster. How many times have you seen on COPS or another show like that where theres somebody getting pulled over and them saying "What about that other guy who passed me?" or "what about the other 5 thousand people driving the same speed as I was?'. Just because everybody else is doing it does NOT make it ok to do. Also theres safety factors when talking about speeding or impeding traffic. Rules in a video game are not safety issues so they should be followed 100% of the time because theres no "gray" area.

 

About these...

Do you never exceed the speed limit?

No, never.

Always come to a full stop at a stop sign?

Yes always.

Never change lanes without signalling.

No, not ever.

Never jaywalk?

No.

 

Some of those I did do when I was younger (mainly speeding) but as I got older (past the age of 24) I realized that going 65 in a 55 doesnt actually get me to my destination any faster due to traffic, traffic signals and signs. I always have to laugh when I see somebody blow by me and then 5 minutes later I see them again waiting in traffic or at a stop light. If it saves any time at all, we're talking less than 5 minutes total. And seriously, are you going to get fired over 5 minutes? No. Will your Dr kick you out and not see you because of 5 minutes? No. The ONLY time when 5 minutes actually matters is in life and death situations and then it is acceptable to break many laws to try and save a life (though usually its best if you can leave that to emergency personnel who are trained for it).

 

Or do you break those rules sometimes because you figure you won't be punished for it?

 

Thats NOT why p[people break ANY of the rules you used as your examples. People speed because they think it will get them someplace faster, even though it wont. People dont come to a complete stop at a stop sign because either they are in a hurry or because the cross traffic is clear. People dont use their signals because either its broken, they're driving with one hand a with the other occupied, or simply forget. People jaywalk because they are in a hurry, or are too lazy to walk to the corner.

 

NOBODY breaks the law simply because they think they wont get caught. Not even shop lifters. They break the law because they want something. Nobody does it for the sole purpose of thinking they wont get caught. They may think they wont get caught, but they're breaking the law for a different reason.

 

 

There are NO arguments that can be made to break any rules that you completely agree to before you take part in the activity the rules are in regards to. You agreed to it, you follow it.

 

Laws are different because you may not agree with them. You dont sign your name and say "I agree to these terms and conditions" with laws like you did when you subbed for this game.

Edited January 14, 2015 by deezOneTenTen
Changed font colors

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ult gear is too much crap to be used in progression raiding for very long

 

For very long? Here I was thinking the content was "too hard" ( or buggy - both probably ) and it would most likely get easier.

 

I don't get the very long statement there. IT's either not usable or it is usable, it won't suddenly become unusable. Unless you mean because people will be gearing up with dropped gear etc. as thus the comm gear won't be sought after by raid leaders etc. on their raiders in which case that sounds familiar ... kind of like people not wanting people in non 198 gear when you can others that have it ...

 

Anyway it's supposedly not about the gear it's about the mechanics. At least that's the line many of the "pro" cheaters camp believe to try justify the gaining of said gear.

 

Technology... sometimes it works for you, sometimes it works against you.

 

Kind of likes logs of gear you might gave gained that you probably shouldn't have?

[LadyVix]

I'm not branding you as anything, I am just encouraging introspection. And besides the debatable question of whether sanctions or forum posts will have any noticeable effect on whether SWTOR is a better place to play in the future, if you really want to make the world a better place, there are probably more productive forums for employing your substantial intelligence and eloquence than an MMO forum.

 

Me, I will honestly admit that I'm not posting here to make the world better. I just enjoy the conversation.

 

I try to stick to gaming forums as much as possible. As a retired MD I have a presence in some medical related forums as well, but I generally avoid saying anything there due to liability issues.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

The tears of those exploiters worrying themselves sick sustains me. I wish I could bottle them and carry them around like stimpacks!

 

You broke the rules! Many of you now say" if they ban me I will just leave the game and never come back". That is childish. I bet you have said that at least a dozen times about this game and here you are.

 

I am in a raiding guild. I did not exploit, I am better than that. Some in my guild did exploit, and have been chastised severely because of it. I hope they all leave, one already did. I don't want to spend time raiding with people that cheat. What fun is raiding if you cheat to get gear? I just don't get it. Do you just stand around the fleet and show off like a peacock? Here is a hint, most don't care. Or do you go into raids with people who didn't cheat and brag about your DPS? Do you know how to get out of circles? OMG how many people are geared out in 198's now? People will think they know what they are doing when in reality they just cheat and all they know how to do is click to pick up loot. Please Bioware remove the ill gotten gains, at least, so people are not confused into thinking these cheaters know how to raid. Bans would be nice as well. Or how about take their gear and give them a non removable name tag that says "cheater".

 

Here's a hint: Nobody cares that you think you're a bad***. Go back to bed and worry about finding a girlfriend kid.

[Kulyok]

Read the first few pages, still confused. So what exploit are you people talking about?

 

(I'm probably too slow. Heck, I got so bored with Rishi I haven't even been to Yavin yet.)

[vennian]

I feel like i'm at a freakshow at a carnival. Disgusted but I just can't turn away from you all.

 

Seconded. It's like watching a car crash of stupidity in action.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Seconded. It's like watching a car crash of stupidity in action.

 

On that note has there even be a single issue that has gained this much activity/posting/attention in such a short period of time?

 

Must be getting up towards 300 pages of posts over a variety of threads now.

 

Funny also how the biggest died off and this one took off even though ideally it's the same debate and content as before ... wonder why that happens...

[deezOneTenTen]

Read the first few pages, still confused. So what exploit are you people talking about?

 

(I'm probably too slow. Heck, I got so bored with Rishi I haven't even been to Yavin yet.)

 

If you dont know about it, dont worry about it imo. I never care to know what bugs or exploits there are. If I encounter one I put in the ticket and leave it at that. If I;m in a raid and I see somebody about to accidentally (or purposefully) do the activity that causes the bug or exploit, I tell them "dont do that or it bugs out" and leave it at that.

 

I honestly hope all abusers of this exploit get banned. I really do. Which is unfortunate because I would lose a couple friends from my raid team and many of my guild mates. But plain and simple, it was in both the Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct that we agreed to when we first subscribed to the game. Unknowingly doing it once I have no problems with. Heck, I dont even have a problem if somebody did it a second time either 1) not realizing what they did or 2) trying to duplicate it for a better idea of what to put down in the bug report. The second one I have a little reservation for but I can at least see the logic of trying to help with as much information as possible to help fix it faster.

 

I dont care if somebody gets fully geared out. I do care about crafters learning the schematics but only because it can really ruin the economy for those pieces and many people sell credits for real cash so they're breaking multiple rules. But what I care about the most about this exploit is integrity. People dont care how their actions effect others. To some, this does effect them because now they have less chances to get into raid groups because they didnt cheat and get fully geared so theres fewer spots open because of all the people that are looking for somebody to fill their last raid spot wants the fully geared person. It effect PUGs tremendously. But thats why I feel the exploiters should receive a lengthy suspension to a permanent ban. Because they dont care how their actions effect others. They dont care that they are wasting other peoples time and money so long as they get what they want. Thats where my issue is. People are all about getting what they want and dong give a crap about anybody else. They ahve no integrity.

 

These people need to be taught a lesson. Whether or not they learn from it is a different story. Any parent can tell you, it doesnt mater how many times you tell your child or punish your child, if they REALLY want to do something, they're going to do it. And this stupid, "if I get banned, I'm never coming back" threat is the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard. Guess what? Being banned means you arent allowed back, so yeah...you wont be coming back if you get banned. They need to be taught the lesson that other people matter. If they choose not to listen, thats on them and tells you exactly what type of person they are. And if they are that type of person, maybe you're better off without them.

[Jabakla]

This is the best thread ever ... "crunch" "crunch" ... the amount of drama, anger, compassion, understanding, lack of understanding, surprise reveals of who did and didnt do the exploit is very entertaining ..

 

Thank you very much for this quality reading ... "crunch".. "crunch"...

Im eagerly awaiting for the season finale when the punishment comes... Oh the amount of cries.. or the disappointment of a no punishment at all .... oh boy oh boy...

 

/grabs another bucket of popcorn ... crunch crunch...

[JouerTue]

I dont care if somebody gets fully geared out. I do care about crafters learning the schematics but only because it can really ruin the economy for those pieces and many people sell credits for real cash so they're breaking multiple rules. But what I care about the most about this exploit is integrity. People dont care how their actions effect others. To some, this does effect them because now they have less chances to get into raid groups because they didnt cheat and get fully geared so theres fewer spots open because of all the people that are looking for somebody to fill their last raid spot wants the fully geared person. It effect PUGs tremendously. But thats why I feel the exploiters should receive a lengthy suspension to a permanent ban. Because they dont care how their actions effect others. They dont care that they are wasting other peoples time and money so long as they get what they want. Thats where my issue is. People are all about getting what they want and dong give a crap about anybody else. They ahve no integrity.

 

These people need to be taught a lesson. Whether or not they learn from it is a different story. Any parent can tell you, it doesnt mater how many times you tell your child or punish your child, if they REALLY want to do something, they're going to do it. And this stupid, "if I get banned, I'm never coming back" threat is the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard. Guess what? Being banned means you arent allowed back, so yeah...you wont be coming back if you get banned. They need to be taught the lesson that other people matter. If they choose not to listen, thats on them and tells you exactly what type of person they are. And if they are that type of person, maybe you're better off without them.

 

while i think that:

- the impact on the ingame economy has had a certain weight and should be someway reverted back (taking away schematics at least).

- the server transfert and selling the lockout should be punished, especially HM.

- casual exploiters should have some kind of consequence too ( temp ban,exploited gear stripped).

- the PVP win trading exploit is way worse than this and gives strenght to the feeling that ''pvp is a joke'' and should be stopped.

 

i don't think that the exploit did some damage on the pug community..they(most casuals) were so far practically unable and certainly unwilling to do the content( 2 wipes disband lol), we all know that a chestpiece or the coratanni achievment means nothing now, there's bolster, it's always SM and the ops got a nerfbat. if someone leaves a player out of the group for not having the exploited gear it's a group it's better to stay out in any case..

same as for guilds that kicked players not taking that gear..

 

those players saying they won't come back are probably those we'll see on thyton soon enough with another account, while there are others that are going away even after a short ban. obviously they are not in a position to negotiate, but i'm sure BW it's evaluating which kind of loss in $ it's going to happen depending on how they act here. on my server i didn't notice a lot of players doing it ( 8-10 rishi instances on prime time and like 20-30 ravagers) but a spread ban will hurt more than one guild..all raiders and subs or paying casuals whose money counts, they are all players with paying friends etc. not an easy decision.

 

the flaming is huge, but i'm not surprised..it's always a web forum. but i think those asking for blood exagerate and the only motivation must be personal (not have taken the gear/gained millions on GTN and seeing exploiters go unpunished a.k.a. butthurt). also bringing on the table things like integrity or morality it's a waste for a videogame, where we cannot hurt the other in any way if not the verbal harrassment or some virtual coin at worst (this case).

people are always selfish and even more online..so no doubt that no matter what will be the punishment, there will be always exploiters or cheaters. those threads ''i did it but i sent the ticket pls no ban'' are pathetic lol.

 

so whatever will be the consequences for breaking the ToS, permabans, temp bands, gear rollback, schemes erased, it won't change much. people thinking they are smarter won't disappear, people considering themselves superior beings won't disappear, bads will be bads, nerds will nerd again (even if from thyton or in another game) and the world will proceed. and remember that BW will be always out for money, here it's just more complicated since it's a live MP game..

 

and because i've seen that certain considerations can't be left out from these threads posts:

 

from BW part it was bad managment leave the thing unaddressed, which doesn't take away responsibilities from the individuals involved, but shows how in a poor state is our game anyway.

the expolit went live and was reported, there were multiple bugs and issues etc. and they waited what, 2-3 weeks? come on..if i do something similar at my job people would die.

i felt bad for having to pay to actually beta test the content, it's not fair and there are still bugs out there after two patches.

 

so good luck to all the exploiters and the devs and all the others burning in nerdrage.

Edited January 14, 2015 by JouerTue

[ROGERMNF]

IMO the reasonable solution is simple:

1. remove the bug (done it)

2. take any advantatge taked from the exploit (credits, gear, mats, mounts, RE,...) and personal advicement about that

3. BW can create a list of those who have taked advantage of the exploit and create some kind o "punishment system", asuming that will be more bugs/exploits in the future. For example (edit: and it's only an example):

1st offence: remove the advantge and advicement

2nd offence: temporary ban (1 day, 1 week,... something like that)

3rd offence: 3 strikes and out, ok: permaban

 

I think this kind of measures send a clear message:

1. BW never have taked measures with previous exploits but this is going to change.

2. Acording to the number of players that seems are used the exploit I think there's a number of players who knew what they are doing, but also I think that there are a number of players that don't had a full undestanding about what an exploit is, and why it's against the rules. A progresive sanction system will focus on this issue making casual or less heavy players, are conscious about consequences of their acts.

 

IMO claiming for permabans for all who have used this exploit should take a look how the justice systems actually works (even in criminal justice systems). You can claim for a heavy punishments, and you are in your right. But doing so only makes a temporary solution for that the current issue. There will be 10, 100, 1000, 5000, 50000 payers with permaban? And what's next? Other ppl will enter the game and you will have the same situation in the next bug in 2, 3, 6 months.

By the other hand, a more "progresive punishment sanctions" will focus on prevention (as most of justice systems do). There must be consequences, of course, but at the same time you are making ppl conscious about his acts, and giving a chance to do it right the next time.

Edited January 14, 2015 by ROGERMNF

[pax_orion]

Hey folks,

 

Let’s talk a bit about the Ravager’s exploit. There are two stages to the process of removing an exploit and handling actions for players who participated. Stage 1 – fix the issue and ensure players can no longer partake in the exploit. That change is out as of today in patch 3.0.2.

 

Stage 2 – With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so.

 

On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit.

 

-eric

 

 

And who will repay players who suffer month and a half of lags and almost unplayable game?

Surface test and lags are reason why players too some advantage of that exploit.You could not done tactical FP normally due the lag issue and people are payed for DLC and game time.So,give a warning for offenders and that is it.Or if you ban exploiter then you can shut down the game because 90% of exploiters was frustrated subscribers who have 45 days of torture and horror with lag and FPS drop issues

[mr_sim]

Are you saying, then, that you didn't get any entertainment value out of the money you spent? Spending money on services rendered does not excuse you from theft of items you haven't earned/paid for.

 

If you shop at Walmart and spend a thousand bucks on items, then grab some extra "loot" on your way out the door, do you think they'll cut you some slack because of your purchase? Hell no, they'll treat you like the thief you are, have you arrested, dragged out in handcuffs, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. You get what you pay for, but nothing more.

 

You fail to understand. First your analogy is false, stealing from a store that's direct monastery harm. It's not like the product can be used outside this game.

 

But more importantly your culture dear poster sucks too, your last line "You get what you pay for, but nothing more."

 

Obviously you don't understand the concept that what we pay to BioWare is a relationship not a mere transaction, if you can't understand that you would be a terrible manager at any company. Yeah when I go to the dollar store and buy something and it breaks as I open the package it's so terrible, I won't return it I probably won't even complain to anyone. It was only a dollar that time, but you can bet I'll think twice next time I choose a dollar store. See even there a retailer even at $1 has entered a relationship.

 

Lastly you seem to think people who exploited are somehow parasites or something. When in fact most of those same people are the player leaders of this game. They are the guild makers who train novices who are willing to listen to the top 30% of players in weeks. They are the ones evolving strat for the highest content, strat that lets more players enjoy said content. They are the players who build the rotations and theory craft the stats. They are the players who do often give gear selflessly to other players because they just want people to play with. They are the ones answering any question with patience. BioWare provides none of this.

 

They are the players who pay the most into this game, they render services for free and they make the game better. They who do so much saw an opportunity to save on some grinding, that time they saved on grinding many reinvested in helping their fellow players learn and grow.

 

Parasites I think not.

[Jboath]

You fail to understand. First your analogy is false, stealing from a store that's direct monastery harm. It's not like the product can be used outside this game.

 

But more importantly your culture dear poster sucks too, your last line "You get what you pay for, but nothing more."

 

Obviously you don't understand the concept that what we pay to BioWare is a relationship not a mere transaction, if you can't understand that you would be a terrible manager at any company. Yeah when I go to the dollar store and buy something and it breaks as I open the package it's so terrible, I won't return it I probably won't even complain to anyone. It was only a dollar that time, but you can bet I'll think twice next time I choose a dollar store. See even there a retailer even at $1 has entered a relationship.

 

Lastly you seem to think people who exploited are somehow parasites or something. When in fact most of those same people are the player leaders of this game. They are the guild makers who train novices who are willing to listen to the top 30% of players in weeks. They are the ones evolving strat for the highest content, strat that lets more players enjoy said content. They are the players who build the rotations and theory craft the stats. They are the players who do often give gear selflessly to other players because they just want people to play with. They are the ones answering any question with patience. BioWare provides none of this.

 

They are the players who pay the most into this game, they render services for free and they make the game better. They who do so much saw an opportunity to save on some grinding, that time they saved on grinding many reinvested in helping their fellow players learn and grow.

 

Parasites I think not.

 

If you buy a dollar store item, and you open the packaging and it has two of what you bought, do you go back and give them back one?

 

If you buy a candy bar from a vending machine, and two drop, do you send it back to the company the same way you'd have to call them and get you to refund you a dollar if none dropped?

 

I didn't use the exploit, but if people had offered on my server I would've. Because Bioware decided not to do an update for 5-6 weeks after the expansion dropped. Release your **** right, or fix it as soon as you know there's a problem.

[Nigredo]

If you buy a dollar store item, and you open the packaging and it has two of what you bought, do you go back and give them back one?

 

If you buy a candy bar from a vending machine, and two drop, do you send it back to the company the same way you'd have to call them and get you to refund you a dollar if none dropped?

 

I didn't use the exploit, but if people had offered on my server I would've. Because Bioware decided not to do an update for 5-6 weeks after the expansion dropped. Release your **** right, or fix it as soon as you know there's a problem.

 

well said ...that being said wait for it cause here come captain morals and his lynch mob of butthurt

../popcorn

[Snean]

And who will repay players who suffer month and a half of lags and almost unplayable game?

Surface test and lags are reason why players too some advantage of that exploit.You could not done tactical FP normally due the lag issue and people are payed for DLC and game time.So,give a warning for offenders and that is it.Or if you ban exploiter then you can shut down the game because 90% of exploiters was frustrated subscribers who have 45 days of torture and horror with lag and FPS drop issues

You forget about money for skills. 800k each toons on 1st week.

Forget about no loot bosses in FP/OPS.

Lost achivment.

And thousands bugs.

 

P.S. I see that many ppl ask permaban. Can BW begin to fix bugs admitted? Server lags, skills delays? Items lost/not gained by game fault? Engine that can not hold a couple dozen people?

[mr_sim]

If you buy a dollar store item, and you open the packaging and it has two of what you bought, do you go back and give them back one?

 

If you buy a candy bar from a vending machine, and two drop, do you send it back to the company the same way you'd have to call them and get you to refund you a dollar if none dropped?

 

I didn't use the exploit, but if people had offered on my server I would've. Because Bioware decided not to do an update for 5-6 weeks after the expansion dropped. Release your **** right, or fix it as soon as you know there's a problem.

 

Funny do you think I'm on the ban them all camp. Totally not BTW.

 

Two items in one package is the manufacturer actually. In theory the retailer could see harm as it may be a longer time before I return for the same product. But adjusted for reality there is zero harm between the buyer and the retailer.

 

Same is true of the chocolate bar. Again adjusted for reality, we all have busy lives. There are certain sociological issue leaving the extra bar in the bottom of the machine (see: tainted candy at Halloween) so best case scenario I throw the extra bar out.

 

Either way this is about the costumer relationship and your two examples to not meaningfully demonstrate an affected relationship from either party.

[Max_Killjoy]

Or maybe the comm reduction decision was made in direct response to the number of people who took part in this. Too many people are running around in 198 gear. How do you slow this train down? You make it harder to gain ultimates and slow progression. If that's the case, then yes, the exploiters actually did harm to the greater community, all of whom must grind more regardless of whether we were involved or not.

 

"Too many people"?