regarding punishment for exploit

[Infernixx]

Fruit of the poisonous tree. It sucks, but blame the exploiters

 

Except they won't. They'll blame BW. And with the simmering impatience and anger regarding this expansion's problems, they really don't need to do something too heavy-handed. Especially with their subscriber player base.

[Andryah]

Fruit of the poisonous tree.

 

Alleged, not proven.

 

I'm sure there are both legitimate and illegitimate player crafted items in play right now. It would be wrong to penalize any legitimate acquisition of capability by a crafter.

 

Sorry... your approach is barbaric and short sighted.

[ClockworkSoldier]

You do not hold any sort of monopoly on being someone who works in development.

 

As for turning down the offer.. you did the right thing.

 

 

 

NO.. what you did was justify the actions of exploiters on the basis that what they are doing is somehow altruistic for the game and fellow players. Complete nonsense. If you find a exploit.. you report it. If lots of people report it and Bioware agrees that it is extremely severe.. it gets fast attention and a lot of it. What you don't do is propagate the exploit in the name of quality of life and improvement for all.

 

TL;DR Your statements are in moral conflict with one another.

 

Well you can believe what you like about my professional expertise I earn well enough not to care what your opinion is.

 

That fact of the matter is they don't care... and only care when something is exploited to this degree. Look back over the last serious issues and tell me where they did something about it before it became wide spread? Even a statement on the forums? Never is your answer only when something has gone viral it gets fixed, like I previously stated "Priority".

 

I only started out making this post to raise another point of view.. With out the mass exploitation this would not be getting fixed so quickly. I don't see how I'm wrong there and I don't think anyone should be punished. If anything those that abused this exploit have now missed out on all this game content why do they carry on playing? If anything they have just cheated them selves it's sad really.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ClockworkSoldier

[RPsus]

Ban all the pve peasants abusing the glorious game that is swtor.

 

It is an assault on roleplayers to do anything that might harm the stability of our most sacred game.

 

-RPsus

[Max_Killjoy]

Fruit of the poisonous tree. It sucks, but blame the exploiters. People need to realize that yes, they can be affected by others actions. Just like in RL, you get caught with an item you legally purchased, it doesnt matter, you lose it.

 

And this sort of "better 10 innocent people suffer than 1 guilty person go free" fanatical overreaction is why I at this point don't care if the bug is never patched and the people using it go right on using it scott-free.

 

This isn't real-life, and nothing was stolen. It's just 1s and 0s and pixels. Yet, you're not only willing, but happy, to see players who might not have even known that this exploit existed or how it related to the things they bought on GTN hammered to prove your petty, short-sighted, self-absorbed "point" to the playerbase.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[VulgarMercurius]

And this "better 10 innocent people suffer than 1 guilty person go free" fanatical overreaction is why I at this point don't care if the bug is never patched and the people using it go right on using it scott-free.

 

agreed

[Edzew]

Lol! I know several people on Harbinger who did the exploit who spend hundreds of dollars a month on the CM. Yes, ban the people who support this game and allow freeloaders to enjoy it. Your suggestion is like me suggesting that anyone who doesn't spend at least $100 a month on this game should be banned for not paying their fair share

 

tuff.. if they broke the rules and knowingly broke the rules they should be banned. and everything of theirs should be deleted period. it should be if you break the rules you get punished... and not like the real world where the rich and powerful can break any rules they want and get away with it.

 

and if they do just let your buddies get away with it what kind of message dose that send to everyone else?? if you find an exploit in the future exploit the heck out of it kuz you wont get punished for it.

[ivanhedgehog]

^^ Yep.

 

I guess we have people in the player base that expect rewards for doing what you legally agreed to do when you accepted the ToS/EULA. It boggles the mind.. it truly does.

 

the reward is, you get to play

[lightSaberAddiCt]

And this sort of "better 10 innocent people suffer than 1 guilty person go free" fanatical overreaction is why I at this point don't care if the bug is never patched and the people using it go right on using it scott-free.

 

This isn't real-life, and nothing was stolen. It's just 1s and 0s and pixels. Yet, you're not only willing, but happy, to see players who might not have even known that this exploit existed or how it related to the things they bought on GTN hammered to prove you petty, short-sighted, self-absorbed "point" to the playerbase.

 

Just like it is always the weak minded fanatic that resorts to name calling then putting up even a simple counter argument. But from what I have read from your previous posts, guess it is to be expected.

Edited January 10, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt

[Max_Killjoy]

tuff.. if they broke the rules and knowingly broke the rules they should be banned. and everything of theirs should be deleted period. it should be if you break the rules you get punished... and not like the real world where the rich and powerful can break any rules they want and get away with it.

 

and if they do just let your buddies get away with it what kind of message dose that send to everyone else?? if you find an exploit in the future exploit the heck out of it kuz you wont get punished for it.

 

So what?

 

You really find it rational and just to strip players of all their gear and inventory because of a bug in the game that they took advantage of?

 

Disproportional "justice" isn't.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Max_Killjoy]

Just like it is always the weak minded fanatic that resorts to name calling then putting up even a simple counter argument. But from what I have read from your previous posts, guess it is to be expected.

 

OK, cupcake. You keep right on going with your rage about people who didn't even know what was going on deserving to be punished for receiving "stolen" goods, and never mind that there were no goods, and nothing was stolen.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Theeko]

OK, cupcake. You keep right on going with your rage about people who didn't even know what was going on deserving to be punished for receiving "stolen" goods, and never mind that there were not goods, and nothing was stolen.

 

I think any legit person with that many creds would know something was odd when all the 192 stuff was so cheap down to like 1-2m on Shadowland's within the first couple weeks. When the 186 was out it was 5m++ cause the mats were so hard to come by back then, wouldn't anyone with the credits that bought there gear would know something was fishy about this?

[VulgarMercurius]

Just like it is always the weak minded fanatic that resorts to name calling then putting up even a simple counter argument. But from what I have read from your previous posts, guess it is to be expected.

 

Doesn't counter argue, complains of name calling while name calling and complaining that there is no counter argument from the person he quoted, when THERE IS and he is the one not counter arguing.

 

/slowclap

[Andryah]

Well you can believe what you like about my professional expertise I earn well enough not to care what your opinion is.

 

Feel powerful now?

 

I'm retired and living very nicely on the benefits of years of stock options. Though I still consult on occasion, for fun and profit.

 

Now that we have exchanged broad brush strokes of financial status....

 

That fact of the matter is they don't care... and only care when something is exploited to this degree. Look back over the last serious issues and tell me where they did something about it before it became wide spread? Even a statement on the forums? Never is your answer only when something has gone viral it gets fixed, like I previously stated "Priority".

 

Opinion, presented as fact... motivation unclear.

 

Amazingly enough.. I have seen tons of bug fixes and even exploits fixed by Bioware since this game launched... without any signs of players conspiring to do so just to make it visible to Bioware.

 

If you are really who you say you are.. then you know that bugs/exploits are a continuum with a complex software product that is used by human beings. The development team has a long list of things to fix and prioritizes them based on their assessment of benefit to address. Since you are not on the Bioware dev team (right?) .. you are in no position to comment on anything in a factual manner with respect to their code base nor their bug lists .... only spread opinion, which is your right to do.

 

I acknowledge your right to express your opinion. And I am free to disagree with you. I reject your attempt to use opinions as facts.

 

I only started out making this post to raise another point of view.. With out the mass exploitation this would not be getting fixed so quickly. I don't see how I'm wrong there and I don't think anyone should be punished. If anything those that abused this exploit have now missed out on all this game content why do they carry on playing? If anything they have just cheated them selves it's sad really.

 

Again.. opinion presented as fact.... and it does not justify your prosecution of a conspiracy as the reasons.

 

You might want to consider... just consider... that your endorsement of exploiters doing it to gain faster attention to fixing it in game ----> makes you appear to be a co-conspirator defending the use of the exploit. I understand you explicitly state otherwise.. but the appearance remains... because you continue to justify it.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Andryah

[Infernixx]

tuff.. if they broke the rules and knowingly broke the rules they should be banned. and everything of theirs should be deleted period. it should be if you break the rules you get punished... and not like the real world where the rich and powerful can break any rules they want and get away with it.

 

and if they do just let your buddies get away with it what kind of message dose that send to everyone else?? if you find an exploit in the future exploit the heck out of it kuz you wont get punished for it.

 

BW established that little fact when they let the Nefra thing go for months and simply fixed the problem without handing out negative consequences. And I see the Nefra thing as being infinitely worse, since you had to cheese the fight with deliberate positioning that ensured that she could be 2-manned or 3-manned. 'That' is an exploit.

 

This, I believe, is more taking advantage of a broken operation.

[Max_Killjoy]

I think any legit person with that many creds would know something was odd when all the 192 stuff was so cheap down to like 1-2m on Shadowland's within the first couple weeks. When the 186 was out it was 5m++ cause the mats were so hard to come by back then, wouldn't anyone with the credits that bought there gear would know something was fishy about this?

 

I'd have no idea, GTN prices go up and down all the time with no hint as to why or what people are thinking.

 

I don't think most players keep spreadsheets of GTN prices, or play GTN-PvP.

[Theeko]

I'd have no idea, GTN prices go up and down all the time with no hint as to why or what people are thinking.

 

I don't think most players keep spreadsheets of GTN prices, or play GTN-PvP.

 

I don't know I don't buy my gear cause its already easy enough to obtain it for free through elite comms, or the mainhand drop, but for the ones that do I would think the majority of them would think somethings up if this expansion suddenly became so much easier to get these top end raid gears as compared to the last expansion.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Theeko

[Andryah]

I don't think most players keep spreadsheets of GTN prices, or play GTN-PvP.

 

Personally, I do.

 

Not for the whole market.. just the parts of it that I am active in. I even do it on three different servers, and they all have their own fair market price points.

 

And you are right.. prices at any moment on the GTN mean nothing. Fair market prices do move up and down over time on virtually everything. Since I do keep close tabs on the moving average for fair market pricing on items I buy/sell..... I can easily see when items are listing notably above or below current fair market prices. Interestingly, while I doubt many players actually spreadsheet the data... most of them do seem to be in touch with the current fair market price for items. They simply won't buy the inflated items listings, and the deflated listings get snapped up super quick. So broadly speaking each server has prevailing market rates, and players generally are aware of what they are.

 

The items for sale in the GTN currently that are the subject of this thread... are selling at significant discount from where they normally would 5 weeks into an new content tier. But this will correct itself quickly once Bioware moves on the exploit. the volumes are low (even for The Harbinger), so the real effect on the economy is small, and temporary.

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't know I don't buy my gear cause its already easy enough to obtain it for free through elite comms, or the mainhand drop, but for the ones that do I would think the majority of them would think somethings up if this expansion suddenly became so much easier to get these top end raid gears as compared to the last expansion.

 

Personally, I buy a few, craft a few, and get most with comms.

 

But I have no memory of what purple high-end mods cost on GTN in the early days of RotHC, and I doubt most other players do either.

 

Most people are going to look at GTN, see the mods come down in price, and think "Sweet deal, I'll buy that!", not "Oh no, I better not buy this, low prices are fishy and might come from someone cheating!"

[Theeko]

Personally, I buy a few, craft a few, and get most with comms.

 

But I have no memory of what purple high-end mods cost on GTN in the early days of RotHC, and I doubt most other players do either.

 

Most people are going to look at GTN, see the mods come down in price, and think "Sweet deal, I'll buy that!", not "Oh no, I better not buy this, low prices are fishy and might come from someone cheating!"

 

Yeah its very tempting to buy stuff for cheap whenever you can but when the majority of the game knows where something comes from and how hard it was for them to obtain at the beginning of the Hutt Cartel they probably would've known better not to buy it.

 

But then there are the select few that actually made that many credits just by joining the game into this expansion so hard to tell what people know about the GTN, I know for a fact i'm a reseller and I know just about almost everything there is to know about how much an item is worth when it came out, and yes I've seen those 186 mods selling for 5+ on Shadowlands when they first came out.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Theeko

[Drockter]

BW established that little fact when they let the Nefra thing go for months and simply fixed the problem without handing out negative consequences. And I see the Nefra thing as being infinitely worse, since you had to cheese the fight with deliberate positioning that ensured that she could be 2-manned or 3-manned. 'That' is an exploit.

 

This, I believe, is more taking advantage of a broken operation.

 

You're describing essentially the same thing... both were taking advantage of a broken operation ... but, if I understand this exploit ... you get more out of it than the nefra bug.

 

Loot check the loot tables for Nefra v this exploited boss... and at least with Nefra... cheese fight or not... there was still some sort of fight... AND she is the first boss (a lot more people get there legitimately than not)... that is not the case with this exploit (if I understand correctly). Final boss, no fighting... simply walk in and pick up your loot (and you get all of the drop... no sharing required).

Edited January 10, 2015 by Drockter

[Max_Killjoy]

Yeah its very tempting to buy stuff for cheap whenever you can but when the majority of the game knows where something comes from and how hard it was for them to obtain at the beginning of the Hutt Cartel they probably would've known better not to buy it.

 

But then there are the select few that actually made that many credits just by joining the game into this expansion so hard to tell what people know about the GTN, I know for a fact i'm a reseller and I know just about almost everything there is to know about how much an item is worth when it came out, and yes I've seen those 186 mods selling for 5+ on Shadowlands when they first came out.

 

If I didn't read the forums, I'd probably have no way to connect this exploit thing to the price fluctuations of stuff on GTN.

[ivanhedgehog]

Nonsense. Bugs and exploits are a fact of life in MMOs. Show me one MMO where it has not taken place periodically over time. It is precisely why there is a clause in the ToS/EULA of every MMO prohibiting it.

 

And I'm sorry.. but you excusing the exploiters as "only doing it to show Bioware it needs fixing" is complete BS. I would love to see the text of the player appeal dialog with Bioware for anyone who seriously believes this is a leg to stand upon.

 

cars that explode when rear ended are a fact of life in automobiles..should we not encourage them to do better?

 

should not their own work ethics drive themselves to do better? self respect?

Edited January 10, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[Edzew]

So what?

 

You really find it rational and just to strip players of all their gear and inventory because of a bug in the game that they took advantage of?

 

Disproportional "justice" isn't.

 

hey dont do the crime if you dont want to do the time!!! you break the rules you loose everything!

[grombrinda]

And this sort of "better 10 innocent people suffer than 1 guilty person go free" fanatical overreaction is why I at this point don't care if the bug is never patched and the people using it go right on using it scott-free.

 

This isn't real-life, and nothing was stolen. It's just 1s and 0s and pixels. Yet, you're not only willing, but happy, to see players who might not have even known that this exploit existed or how it related to the things they bought on GTN hammered to prove your petty, short-sighted, self-absorbed "point" to the playerbase.

 

Yeahh I have gotten to this point also, not only because of the overblown reaction (and then amazingly most want a reward for being "good boys/girls")by the pitchfork crowd, but also because of Bio/EA not using a simple temporary solution and just turn off the ops until the fix comes.