regarding punishment for exploit

[Stoofa]

Lol! I know several people on Harbinger who did the exploit who spend hundreds of dollars a month on the CM. Yes, ban the people who support this game and allow freeloaders to enjoy it. Your suggestion is like me suggesting that anyone who doesn't spend at least $100 a month on this game should be banned for not paying their fair share

 

So what you are effectively saying is that as long as you pay, it's OK to exploit?

Pay to cheat kind of arrangement?

 

And I wodner why exploiting and cheating is so high in SWTOR compared to any other MMORPG? Nothing to do with the fact that they will never ban anyone for doing it.

Cheat/Exploit as much as you can until it's patched and then move on to the next one - your account really is as safe as houses in this game.

[Drockter]

90%? What is your basis for that figure? I don't think it's even appeared on my server, or if it has, it's been kept SUPER-secret.

 

I think the numbers of players people are reporting are grossly over-inflated. I, nor they, have any true statistics. I think that the circles they run in may have a large chunk of people who did it... but that doesn't necessarily equate to a large percent of the player base. At best its anecdotal evidence, but not a statistical sampling.

 

Even the numbers given for the GTN postings of 192 is a very low % of the overall player base. Also take into account that some of those items may have been obtained without using the exploit.

 

I've run raids since the exploit has become known, and I do pay more attention to the gear others are wearing... to be honest, I haven't seen that many that gave me pause enough to inspect their gear, much fewer to look at their achievements, and a VERY small percentage of those people I felt didn't have the achievements to justify.

 

I think that particular argument is trying to scare BW into just ignoring the problem... trying to justify their actions. To some extent, I think they may be afraid... and rightfully so.

 

Edit: Same could be said for those claiming that these players spend hundreds each month. I think they are grasping at anything that may help them avoid punishment.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Drockter

[WillCaedes]

Sure, but your post obviously demonstrates you are quite upset at the responses.

 

My point is do not let them rent space in your head. I know my opinion is about as important as navel lint. I would speculate that is the case with most if not all opinions offered here.

 

Lol, they don't exactly "rent space in your head" so to speak. But reading the venom spewed here is disgusting. I mean, General Forums have never been a beacon of light and tolerance, but this...this goes beyond the norm, even for this forum. And in my eyes Bioware is to blame for unprofessionally handling the process of punishing said players.

[LordArtemis]

Lol, they don't exactly "rent space in your head" so to speak. But reading the venom spewed here is disgusting. I mean, General Forums have never been a beacon of light and tolerance, but this...this goes beyond the norm, even for this forum. And in my eyes Bioware is to blame for unprofessionally handling the process of punishing said players.

 

Ok, fair enough. You certainly don't have to follow my advice. Proceed as you wish.

[LordArtemis]

I think that particular argument is trying to scare BW into just ignoring the problem...

 

I think you may be right Drockter. It is a common tactic, and a pretty silly one at that IMO...if they assume that Bioware is dense enough to fall for it.

 

As I said before, Bioware is likely privy to the numbers. It is unlikely that any amount of hyperbole is going to sway them.

[KenRHamlin]

Who's more to blame here... BW/EA for allowing the exploit in the first place or those who actually "did" the exploit? BW/EA is aware of many issues in the game and has yet to truly "fix" a single one correctly!! It happened, it's in the past and move on. If BW/EA bans those who did the exploit, then it's their loss of revenue, which in turn, cuts funding for the game. So, in short, those whom are QQ'ing over a act that players may or may not have done, in which was created by the developers of the game in the first place, you just shot yourself in the foot sorta say. No funding, no game. Blame BW/EA, not the player(s). Dev's need to fix the bugs, instead of allowing the bug issues to continue on. They also need to "test" these fixes before implementing them in game, which they don't!! From my understanding, they were aware of this back in "beta" BEFORE it was released and still allowed it. So, again, who's at fault here?

[lightSaberAddiCt]

How cheap are these exploited items?

 

I can tell you that if they are not dirt cheap (relatively speaking) my guess is the vast majority of players haven't bothered.

 

Saw a guy on jedi covenent selling the mods for 3m plus mats.

[LordArtemis]

Who's more to blame here... BW/EA for allowing the exploit in the first place or those who actually "did" the exploit? BW/EA is aware of many issues in the game and has yet to truly "fix" a single one correctly!! It happened, it's in the past and move on. If BW/EA bans those who did the exploit, then it's their loss of revenue, which in turn, cuts funding for the game. So, in short, those whom are QQ'ing over a act that players may or may not have done, in which was created by the developers of the game in the first place, you just shot yourself in the foot sorta say. No funding, no game. Blame BW/EA, not the player(s). Dev's need to fix the bugs, instead of allowing the bug issues to continue on. They also need to "test" these fixes before implementing them in game, which they don't!! From my understanding, they were aware of this back in "beta" BEFORE it was released and still allowed it. So, again, who's at fault here?

 

I think the blame sits equally with both. However, Bioware has the right to do as they please, including making poor decisions. They will suffer the consequences of those bad choices, if any, as they have in the past.

 

However, players do not have that right. Bioware sets the boundaries and makes the rules. Perhaps it is unfair, but it is the reality.

 

This is their house. We have to follow the rules they set if we wish to play in it.

Edited January 10, 2015 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

Saw a guy on jedi covenent selling the mods for 3m plus mats.

 

Yea. This is just my view, but personally I don't see many casuals forking over that kind of a cash for a single mod. That is crazy expensive IMO.

 

Going from 10 mil to 3 mil, might as well be 100 mil for most casuals in my eyes. I have trouble paying 50k for a mod lol.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I think the blame sits equally with both. However, Bioware has the right to do as they please, including making poor decisions. They will suffer the consequences of those bad choices, if any, as they have in the past.

 

However, players do not have that right. Bioware sets the boundaries and makes the rules. Perhaps it is unfair, but it is the reality.

 

This is their house. We have to follow the rules they set if we wish to play in it.

 

We seem to disagree on alot LA, but you pretty much nailed it. No matter what BW does, they will be damned if they do, and damned if they dont. But it is up to them.

[KenRHamlin]

I think the blame sits equally with both. However, Bioware has the right to do as they please, including making poor decisions. They will suffer the consequences of those bad choices, if any, as they have in the past.

 

However, players do not have that right. Bioware sets the boundaries and makes the rules. Perhaps it is unfair, but it is the reality.

 

This is their house. We have to follow the rules they set if we wish to play in it.

 

Agreed, either way, time will tell. IF they ban, they'll lose revenue, players will still complain. However, BW/EA need to start doing their jobs, like fixing the bugs/exploits. If they did their jobs correctly, wouldn't be having this issue in the first place. Just saying

[Theeko]

Blame BW/EA, not the player(s).

 

^ False, Players have the decision whether or not to act upon what is right and wrong, even if there is something wrong with something you don't just go and do it yourself.

 

IE: World of Tanks banning people for bypassing Chat filter

(Imo WoT's population is about 1/15th the size of Swtors, yet they still banned people for exploiting)

 

It wasn't World of tanks fault they had flaws in there system, only people at fault are the ones who act upon it purposely.

[VulgarMercurius]

I think the blame sits equally with both. However, Bioware has the right to do as they please, including making poor decisions. They will suffer the consequences of those bad choices, if any, as they have in the past.

 

However, players do not have that right. Bioware sets the boundaries and makes the rules. Perhaps it is unfair, but it is the reality.

 

This is their house. We have to follow the rules they set if we wish to play in it.

 

What about people that don't visit the forums, have no idea that this is frowned upon and will be subsequently punished should bioware decide to take action against those using this "exploit" of a bug?

 

You invite me into your home. I use the side of my fork to cut food instead of a knife because I think it is more efficient. You kick me out of your house even though I had no idea you would take issue with something that hurts nobody.

 

edit: just thought of something. A few months ago my guild was doing end game pve on a semi regular basis. Some how we came into the knowledge that if you start a group as a 16, get to the end boss, and split into groups of eight it is somewhat easier to finish the fight and get your comms. I saw nothing wrong with that and participated... twice? (i seriously prefer pvp) I still don't know that this is exploiting, might be, but I couldn't care because it affects nobody. Should I be banned (or even warned) for such actions I would be pretty perplexed.

Edited January 10, 2015 by VulgarMercurius

[LordArtemis]

We seem to disagree on alot LA, but you pretty much nailed it. No matter what BW does, they will be damned if they do, and damned if they dont. But it is up to them.

 

Yea, you and I have had some.....spirited....discussions lol.

[LordArtemis]

What about people that don't visit the forums, have no idea that this is frowned upon and will be subsequently punished should bioware decide to take action against those using this "exploit" of a bug?

 

You invite me into your home. I use the side of my fork to cut food instead of a knife because I think it is more efficient. You kick me out of your house even though I had no idea you would take issue with something that hurts nobody.

 

I get your point, but unfair or not the person would have the right to kick you out. You are there as a guest...you have no rights in that respect.

 

In other words, like it or not, we are here at Bioware's pleasure. They give us leeway likely because they appreciate the cash flow...but they can get rid of us at any time for any reason, without notice or cause.

 

That is the reality. Right or not, fair or not does not play into it.

 

Now, we can certainly hope they will be fair about it, and I think often they are. But that is their purview. They hold all the cards here.

 

All except one perhaps...we have a right to chose where to spend our money. It is the only card we truly have to play in this case.

Edited January 10, 2015 by LordArtemis

[JudasGray]

I lterally have no idea what any of this is about. So far i've gathered something about comms, but thats about it.

 

Shows how much I pay attention.

[ivanhedgehog]

YES!

 

Something that shows that Bioware appreciate us playing fair and not exploit!

 

Scan the accounts and those found to have NOT taken part in this exploit while it was active, not looted a exploited item, not entered a exploited ops or used a exploited item in any way deserve recognition.

 

Those that did exploit, deserve to know that a exploit is still a exploit even if "everyone else are doing it"

 

I played fair yesterday, where is my prize?? I played fair for the last year...where are my 365 prizes???? and they better be good ones.

[VulgarMercurius]

I get your point, but unfair or not the person would have the right to kick you out. You are there as a guest...you have no rights in that respect.

 

In other words, like it or not, we are here at Bioware's pleasure. They give us leeway likely because they appreciate the cash flow...but they can get rid of us at any time for any reason, without notice or cause.

 

That is the reality. Right or not, fair or not does not play into it.

 

Now, we can certainly hope they will be fair about it, and I think often they are. But that is their purview. They hold all the cards here.

 

All except one perhaps...we have a right to chose where to spend our money. It is the only card we truly have to play in this case.

 

You're right, I think. I would probably play that card for being punished in any form for doing something that I don't know is wrong (you could exploit totally without knowing what youre doing isn't part of the game - like in your thread where someone brought up colicoid wargames and farming whatever that issue is). So, if I come to your house, do something I believe to be innocuous and you boot me, I'm not ever coming back unless when the punishment lands I'm like: Oh snap! I see what I did there.

[LordArtemis]

I lterally have no idea what any of this is about.

 

You should feel lucky. Trust me, that isn't a bad thing.

[Drockter]

What about people that don't visit the forums, have no idea that this is frowned upon and will be subsequently punished should bioware decide to take action against those using this "exploit" of a bug?

 

You invite me into your home. I use the side of my fork to cut food instead of a knife because I think it is more efficient. You kick me out of your house even though I had no idea you would take issue with something that hurts nobody.

 

edit: just thought of something. A few months ago my guild was doing end game pve on a semi regular basis. Some how we came into the knowledge that if you start a group as a 16, get to the end boss, and split into groups of eight it is somewhat easier to finish the fight and get your comms. I saw nothing wrong with that and participated... twice? (i seriously prefer pvp) I still don't know that this is exploiting, might be, but I couldn't care because it affects nobody. Should I be banned (or even warned) for such actions I would be pretty perplexed.

 

Ignorance of the rules... does not excuse breaking the rules.

 

However, to your point on the players who "dont know its a problem"... a) I'd contend they dont know about the exploit either the information was spread mainly through other sources... while there may have been some posting in game/fleet (I never saw it tbh)., and b) If you have been in MMO's for any length of time... you know exploits are punishable... if they didn't .. well, I guess they will learn a lesson.

 

I dont want to see a truely innocent, unaware person get punished... I really don't. But, breaking the rules.. is breaking the rules... whether you choose to read them or not... they can take their case up with customer service (if bans are involved).

[LordArtemis]

You're right, I think. I would probably play that card for being punished in any form for doing something that I don't know is wrong (you could exploit totally without knowing what youre doing isn't part of the game - like in your thread where someone brought up colicoid wargames and farming whatever that issue is). So, if I come to your house, do something I believe to be innocuous and you boot me, I'm not ever coming back unless when the punishment lands I'm like: Oh snap! I see what I did there.

 

Absolutely.

 

If I were banned for, say, farming flashpoints for crafting mats, comms or alignment points, I would certainly be upset. I could then appeal the sanction, or choose to walk.

 

I would choose to try and appeal the sanction. Naturally, if I discovered that they discourage this kind of behavior I would then avoid doing so in the future.

In the end you do have the absolute right to choose to spend your money where you please.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yea, I don't think that any bannings would cause a mass exodus from the game. I just don't buy that.

 

I do, however, accept the likelihood that some folks might get stung unfairly if they are harsh in the punishments, as this happens quite often when you have to do mass sanctions.

 

I just think that some of the points made here are being inflated for dramatic value. We are talking about a small portion of the playerbase...I contend you could get rid of every single regular raider in the game and the game would hardly feel the loss.

 

It is just does not represent that many players IMO.

 

I do think this could hurt the economy eventually, if left unchecked, by allowing huge amounts of credits into the system. Folks use the exploit, sell the spoils and make money hand over fist with ease...and that would not be good in the long term.

 

But for now the only folks affected directly, IMO, are those that are unfairly expected to work for something that came so easy to others that were willing to break the rules. I legitimate complaint IMO.

 

Inflating the particulars of the problem to the point of claims it will "destroy the game" is not necessary. Since we do not decide the fate of those involved there is no need to try and mislead the community, and you certainly will not mislead Bioware with hyperbole....they have the numbers that likely say otherwise.

 

so should the people that farmed chests on rishii be sanctioned? they pumped a LOT more credits into the economy than this exploit. did that unbalance your pseudo economy? I really dont care if the rapid decrease in crafted items stopped you from gouging other players. means absolutely nothing. the economy wont even feel it. if you are calling for mass item deletions, you must be a gouger. and I look at them a lot like you look at cheaters.

 

so now we have a new way to divide the player base and cause hate and friction. wonderful

Edited January 10, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[VulgarMercurius]

Ignorance of the rules... does not excuse breaking the rules.

 

However, to your point on the players who "dont know its a problem"... a) I'd contend they dont know about the exploit either the information was spread mainly through other sources... while there may have been some posting in game/fleet (I never saw it tbh)., and b) If you have been in MMO's for any length of time... you know exploits are punishable... if they didn't .. well, I guess they will learn a lesson.

 

I dont want to see a truely innocent, unaware person get punished... I really don't. But, breaking the rules.. is breaking the rules... whether you choose to read them or not... they can take their case up with customer service (if bans are involved).

 

Mhmm, ignorance of the rules isn't innocence for sure. I guess my problem is, I'm specifically thinking of the exploit that has caused so many threads lately - something about not having to do the flashpoint but getting the end boss loot - doesn't seem like something anybody should care about? I haven't done it nor do I care to. I get my gear the way intended, I'm in no rush, and I pvp mostly anyways. But I fail to see how this harms anyone or anything. Except maybe causing the fear that people will be subbed for a week or two less for this expac.

 

edit:

Absolutely.

 

If I were banned for, say, farming flashpoints for crafting mats, comms or alignment points, I would certainly be upset. I could then appeal the sanction, or choose to walk.

 

I would choose to try and appeal the sanction. Naturally, if I discovered that they discourage this kind of behavior I would then avoid doing so in the future.

In the end you do have the absolute right to choose to spend your money where you please.

Ya, that is likely the route I'd take as well.

Edited January 10, 2015 by VulgarMercurius

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Yea, you and I have had some.....spirited....discussions lol.

 

I will say this, I think that any crafting schematics for the advanced mods should be taken back. Because there is no way you could get the number of mods needed to RE, without using the exploit.

[LordArtemis]

so should the people that farmed chests on rishii be sanctioned?

 

If you are asking my opinion, the answer is yes. I believe Bioware chose not to act against them however.

 

they pumped a LOT more credits into the economy than this exploit. did that unbalance your pseudo economy?

 

It is not my "psuedo" economy.

 

I really dont care if the raped decrease in crafted items stopped you from gouging other players.

 

Fair enough, considering it did nothing of the sort. This exploit has not affected me in any way that I can see.

 

means absolutely nothing. the economy wont even feel it. if you are calling for mass item deletions, you must be a gouger. and I look at them a lot like you look at cheaters.

 

Ah. Well, you have a right to judge me any way you wish. Considering I do not measure myself based on your view, or any others for that matter, it matters not.

 

But...I will say that I believe it is UNWISE for Bioware to simply let this go. However, whatever they chose to do will likely be in their best interest, and I think the wise thing to do is to defer to THEIR judgement in this.

 

I will not be picking up any pitchforks and torches any time soon. But if you wish to add me to the list of those types of folks, I will not stand in your way.

 

Go right ahead.

 

so now we have a new way to divide the player base and cause hate and friction. wonderful

 

I don't think this is that serious. I highly doubt this is going to have any lasting effect on anything game related. It is a minor issue IMO and whatever is done will likely be forgotten in a short amount of time.

 

Just my view of course.