mbfhl Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Either way, in order to permaban the people who had the lockout originally like Jerba wants, they'd have to include top raiders in that, which Eric will never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You know what? You guys swayed me. Ban everyone who used, spread, discussed, or benefitted from (via buying mats or mods), in any way, the exploit. Take away all the gear they have, no matter how it was obtained. Delete all their credits, or better yet, take every credit from every exploiter and divide it out among the non-exploiters. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Because, you know, communism. Then everyone who is left can go on playing the game, in the exact same way they have been playing today, yesterday, last week, last month, and last year. Isn't that better? Isn't our gameplay experience so much better now that all those nasty exploiters are out of the game? Isn't it wonderful that we can buy anything we want with all the new credits we got for being so righteous? Oh, right, it's exactly the same. Because the exploiters didn't affect our gaming experience in any way whatsoever. Meanwhile, I still can't get abilities to fire without hitting the button 5 times, the lag is absurd, and several of the companion mainhands and offhands (from Yavin and Rishi quests) are screwed up or nonexistant. Fortunately, it's made all better because strangers in a video game were punished for doing something that I had every opportunity to do myself, but chose not to do, because I'm a good person, and my inherent morality is purely determined by arbitrary decisions I make in a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh, right, it's exactly the same. Because the exploiters didn't affect our gaming experience in any way whatsoever.. GTN = Market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 GTN = Market Crazy, right? It's almost like you can get the materials or items for cheaper than you normally would. But yeah, that one small section of the GTN has completely destroyed the economy and with it the gaming experience of everyone in the game. Good thing we banned all those nasty exploiters, right? Cause now we have all their credits to buy those items. Oops, except they're not there to make those items, so what should we spend the money on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ban everyone who used, spread, discussed, or benefitted from (via buying mats or mods), in any way, the exploit. Take away all the gear they have, no matter how it was obtained. Delete all their credits, or better yet, take every credit from every exploiter and divide it out among the non-exploiters. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Because, you know, communism. What an amazing example of United States schooling system we have right here ^ *golf clapping* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Crazy, right? It's almost like you can get the materials or items for cheaper than you normally would. But yeah, that one small section of the GTN has completely destroyed the economy and with it the gaming experience of everyone in the game. Good thing we banned all those nasty exploiters, right? Cause now we have all their credits to buy those items. Oops, except they're not there to make those items, so what should we spend the money on? Do the Ops the legit way, the way it was meant to be "Played" cause that's what people do in games, "Play". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Troll Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 GTN = Market Does the fact that many more are making less but, still good profits, instead of a few making obscene profits mean the market was harmed? It definitely hurt the hard mode raider with the high level crafter, but their raider buddies who distributed the method for doing this opened the floodgates. Is the market harmed, doubtful, I suspect more credits are moving now than before this debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 What an amazing example of United States schooling system we have right here ^ *golf clapping* It's called sarcasm. Relax. I'm aware of what communism actually entails and the general principles of a communist system. This is obviously not an example of that. But please, let's completely ignore the overall sarcastic tone of the post, assume it was absolutely serious, and that I'm an idiot and that that idiocy is a direct result of the schooling system in the U.S. Because, assumptions are always 100% accurate, right? Congrats, you caught me. You caught the Tater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Do the Ops the legit way, the way it was meant to be "Played" cause that's what people do in games, "Play". And the exploiters are stopping you from doing exactly this in what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And the exploiters are stopping you from doing exactly this in what way? They aren't but doesn't stop EA from doing something about and to prove how a ToS works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyreMaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I can't say what they should do. Bottom line is this was not the original cause or fault of any of the players yet I see players blaming players. The players saw an opening and simply stepped through a door. You can live in your own micro world and say people should not have done this and yes that is 100% true, but that is not 100% of the story or the fault of the players. Blame is proportionally distributed between the makers of SWToR and the players by a ratio of 80/20. What did you expect to happen in this situation? Exactly what did happen. You may as well blame a rock halfway down the mountain for starting a landslide. Players need to stick together and persuade the makers of SWToR to do a better job and not throw other players under the bus. You will see a better game in the end and that is what we all want isn't it? Edited January 9, 2015 by DyreMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 They should have punished the honest players by disabling an OP because some players choose to exploit it? Lets take a real look at this issue. It is the holiday season, both player and Dev have time off. If they took the game down to fix this issue there would be outrage over bring the server down during the player holiday break. Dev are most likely under staff because of people taking time off for the holiday. Do you really think it would be a good idea to make a fix, test it and patch it. Which may break something else in game when you are short handed and most player base has time off and wants to play the game? Does that really sound like a good idea to you? Or do you wait to fix it, since the player agreed not to do it? We all enter into an agreement that it is clearly written that we will not to take advantage of a bug. Player choose to disregard this agreement. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you have the right to do it. no, they should have disabled an op that was not working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 They aren't but doesn't stop EA from doing something about and to prove how a ToS works. Which brings me back to the original point. Bans or no bans, it will have zero effect on the game play of everyone else in the game. And the fact that people are so up in arms about something that does not affect their gaming experience in SWTOR either way, is just sad to me. Two key words in your previous post. "Game" and "play." This isn't real life. No one suffers any actual harm from anyone exploiting anything in this game. They just decide to play differently than you do. Exploit or not, they are still playing the game. In the grand scheme of things, this is one tiny aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Which brings me back to the original point. Bans or no bans, it will have zero effect on the game play of everyone else in the game. And the fact that people are so up in arms about something that does not affect their gaming experience in SWTOR either way, is just sad to me. Two key words in your previous post. "Game" and "play." This isn't real life. No one suffers any actual harm from anyone exploiting anything in this game. They just decide to play differently than you do. Exploit or not, they are still playing the game. In the grand scheme of things, this is one tiny aspect of the game. Also means if you cheat online, you get consequences just like off the internet. From this point of view, you in defense of exploits leads me to believe you must try them too Edited January 9, 2015 by Theeko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Two key words in your previous post. "Game" and "play." This isn't real life. No one suffers any actual harm from anyone exploiting anything in this game. You're right, and many people are overstating the problem. They just decide to play differently than you do. But here you're doing the opposite -- understating the problem. It's not "they're playing different than you", it's "they're playing differently from the rules Bioware set up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Which brings me back to the original point. Bans or no bans, it will have zero effect on the game play of everyone else in the game. And the fact that people are so up in arms about something that does not affect their gaming experience in SWTOR either way, is just sad to me. Two key words in your previous post. "Game" and "play." This isn't real life. No one suffers any actual harm from anyone exploiting anything in this game. They just decide to play differently than you do. Exploit or not, they are still playing the game. In the grand scheme of things, this is one tiny aspect of the game. One of the great things in MMOs and what many people seem to want is a level playing field. For some reason, people do not like others having an unfair advantage over them. Even if it would not directly affect them, unless of course it's losing a raiding spot because of having worse gear, crafting market tanking, guilds losing a revenue source to cover progression costs due to heavy drop in material prices and so on. Again, there are things that have effect on the game/server economy directly and other effects even if you might not be able to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Only for the exploit abusers, given how overall few they are, no one will notice but them the average pvp or fp que would be on the order of 2 or 3 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I hardly think even banning every person that participated in this exploit would make the game dead...I mean we are talking about hardcore HM Ops raiders, right? Not exactly a huge portion of the community. I certainly do not want to see the game lose ANY players...but this game could likely suffer the loss of every raider it has and would probably hardly flinch....IMO of course. You are mistaken. It is an exploit doable by ANY lvl 60, not just raiders. It is frighteningly easy and amazingly lucrative exploit that does not require a raid group. When questing on Rishi I saw several people asking in general chat for "help" to do the exploit. On the Harbinger the use of the exploit has spread to all part of the player population. Leave your distaste of raiding out of the picture and see the larger impact. Edited January 9, 2015 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I hardly think even banning every person that participated in this exploit would make the game dead...I mean we are talking about hardcore HM Ops raiders, right? Not exactly a huge portion of the community. I certainly do not want to see the game lose ANY players...but this game could likely suffer the loss of every raider it has and would probably hardly flinch....IMO of course. those people are almost all subscribers. it is sm and hm. most are long term customers. not really a group you want to alienate. all these emo rage filled draconian punishments being posted are hilarious. any dev that implemented them would be answering for it very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projawa Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Either way, in order to permaban the people who had the lockout originally like Jerba wants, they'd have to include top raiders in that, which Eric will never do. How do you know that? They may end up banning the individual(s) in Zorz responsible for the initial leak. Even if they don't, it's not Eric's call. He's just the mouthpiece/conduit for the devs and producers and as such has no decisionmaking power whatsoever on what happens. Your bias towards assuming favoritism as a core factor here is more a reflection of your experiences and insecurities and less a reflection of anything relevant to this matter. Edited January 9, 2015 by Projawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If it is removing legitimate gear from someone who has gained gear etc. using illegitimate means then I think the punishment suits the crime personally. No bans or anything like that, just setting back the status quo the best they can and if that means people who did cheat lose some legit gear as a result well then they shouldn't have cheated should they? Those that haven't cheated and thus wouldn't show up wouldn't lose anything and those that haven't cheated and have no gear gain nothing. The balance remains, not many would quit over losing gear when they know damn well they cheated and risked it to begin with and the game goes on. Hopefully with fixedo perations so more pugs pop up and the new operation popularity etc. is to what I expected and I'm not off playing other games so soon after new content launch ( only really playing SWToR at the moment waiting for opportunity to do operations and my usual GTN marketing stuff which is my fav thing in this game ). and you expect to sell things to the people that are stripped of all gear...that explains why you are pushing this. not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Certainly possible, I really dont. Well...sure. And in that way I suppose one could say they are affected. Wasn't the exploit located in a HM Op? I assume the actual exploiters are raiders for the reason if I am correct. Are they the only guilty parties....likely not. But they are the exploiters, unless you are saying that casual folks were carried into the HM Op. I suppose that is possible, but I find that highly unlikely. you assume wrong...very wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Holy **** you guys. 60 pages of useless conjecture? *********** why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Holy **** you guys. 60 pages of useless conjecture? *********** why? Are you implying there are forum pages of non-useless conjecture?!?!? If you are looking for useful non-conjecture, you are looking in the wrong place. Edited January 9, 2015 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Are you implying there are forum pages of non-useless conjecture?!?!? Eh...Theorycrafting maybe? My poorly worded point stands though. Why the **** is this thread even a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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