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Our AOE is bad.


KyoMamoru

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So, I've been playing both specs since the release of the expansion. Prior to the patch, we had timely AOEs that was capable of helping during add phases if we planned everything out properly. Currently, our AOEs are often times a total waste of energy. All of my numbers will be based off 192 Main hand, 198 Offhand, and 2013 Bonus Damage. When I average the tooltips for my Veiled Strike, it does 5033 damage. Let's start with the base class moves:

 

Fragmentation Grenade: Cost: 20 | Damage: 3527-3655 | Secondary hits: 1732-1859 damage | AoE Area: 78 Meters.

This move used to be a great option in AOE situations; however, it has had its radius reduced from 8 meters to 5 meters. This is a massive reduction in area. We went from an area of 201 meters to 78 meters. Despite this change in area, they increased the total amount of targets from 5 to 8, which would be awesome, if the damage to secondary targets wasn't reduced by half damage. To my knowledge, there is not other AOE in the game that follows this mechanic. At 20 energy if we manage to hit 3 targets, that is a yield of 7181 damage. The odds of hitting anything beyond three targets are rather low due to the small range and mob groupings we normally see. I'd be fine with seeing an increase to the cooldown of two seconds if the move returned to how it was prior to the expansion.

 

Carbine Burst - Cost: 15 and a Tactical Advantage | Damage: 1877-2097 | Talented: 2346-2622 | Area: 50 meters.

This is by far the most infuriating AOE in the entire game. The energy cost, to be honest is perfectly in line with the damage that the move does. The secondary cost of a Tactical Advantage is beyond terrible. Anytime you opt to utilize Carbine Burst [regardless of spec] you are butchering your rotation and energy management. As a Concealment Operative, a single Tactical Advantage can yield two lacerations pending Proc which will provide over 12,000 damage in two global cool downs at the cost of 16 energy during which, we will actually regain all that energy spent.

 

This is before we even begin to look at how miserable it is to aim this move. This game is already very hard to exist in Melee during an Operation. There's constant AOE, death traps, and mechanics that force us to move from where we are. Let's also not forget the locational lag brought on by ping or ability delay either. Due to the above, the cone of effect is not even used at a fraction of what it actually is supposed to be. Why couldn't this just be a positional AOE like all the other classes have? It could be short range, but at least show us what we're dealing with. I understand that this move has been around since beta, but we also had other better AOEs to use which were nerfed [above] or removed from our class. This is now our most damaging AOE and in Lethality it is required to spread dots while devouring the very resource the class needs to execute its heavy hitting move.

 

I do not understand why our AOE has to be so bad. Increase the cool downs, but give us timely damage. Currently, we tickle the mobs we hit in operations compared to everyone else. The base damage that we do is so pitiful so even if we do crit, the damage is paltry. We need heavy hitters like everyone else.

Edited by KyoMamoru
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To my knowledge, there is not other AOE in the game that follows this mechanic.

 

The bounty hunter's missile blast. Formerly one of the most useless abilities in the game. Better off now but hunters already have so many AoE abilities (6 for mercs!)...

 

Anyway, yes, yes it is. Worst AoE of any class, only 2 abilities, none of which are spammable nor particularly powerful, both of which are clumsy to use. And lethality's dot spreading is both clumsy and useless given the duration of the dots.

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I hated blaster volley. Not because it hit for beans, and cost to much, but the fact that its near impossible to aim in the the middle of a melee, where people are bobbing and weaving.

 

Thermal grenade was fine in PvP. Its still decent in pvp, but I miss the moderate damage it did to 5 guys who are all standing together.

 

I never really noticed that scoundrels/operatives lack a large selection of aoes. I always thought that thermal grenade, Freighter Flyby, and blaster volley were enough when playing scrapper, and that dirty fighting was the real aoe damage spec with its schrap bomb. After all the nerfs it seems this is no longer the case

 

I also think that they were under the impression that blaster volley was going to be more effective.

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I really, really wish they'd rework blaster volley/carbine burst to something like this.

 

20 energy cost, no TA cost. 4-5 sec cooldown.

Placeable 10m AoE (exactly like how cybertech grenades function)

Hits up to 8 targets in the area for 2-3k.

AND PLEASE MAKE IT YELLOW DAMAGE, SOMEHOW! (as a pvper, the amount of times this ability misses is ridiculous)

 

Not sure if the energy/damage ratios are too high for that, but of course it's the mechanics that would matter.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
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I'd be fine if it still required a TA as that's what lets you use it without a CD. TA or no TA+short CD I agree completely...it should be a 10m, ground targetable AOE attack. The current functionality has always been terrible for anything other than taking a crack at popping someone that just stealthed out of combat. Edited by BobaFaceroll
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Other suggetions for BV/CB :

-wider cone, this one's obvious. would also help with z-axis problems, since you can't aim it up or down. Laying down a template ala suppressing fire would solve both problems, of course, but there are already plenty of those and only 2 conal attacks in the game.

-channeled like pulse cannon/flamethrower, but still 1.5s and usable on the move (like stasis/choke). This would allow for correcting position mid-channel. Arguably it would also make it harder to get the full damage out of it. Also it would make the visual effect match the damage effect more closely.

 

I think we sould have one spammable aoe like everyone else. So either BV/CB needs to lose the UH/TA requirement (my preferred), or the grenade needs to have its cooldown removed (inelegant), or we need a new ability (unlikely).

Edited by Loc_n_lol
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Volley + Nade does too low dmg, cost too much, area to small.

Volley costs normal energy but also 1 Tactical, combined costs are too expensive, plus u even cant hit anything moving with this position lags which is really ugly situation if u play dot and u cant spread dots on the enemies, all this makes the skill completly useless regardless of the dmg it does -.-

just compare our aoe skills with all other classes ingame... thats a joke... but dont expect any changes... they have their favorite classes

Edited by BleiFinger
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-channeled like pulse cannon/flamethrower, but still 1.5s and usable on the move (like stasis/choke). This would allow for correcting position mid-channel. Arguably it would also make it harder to get the full damage out of it. Also it would make the visual effect match the damage effect more closely.

 

If they did this, they'd need it to position off of your camera angle, and not your character. It would be way too obnoxious to aim that while trying to move around in PVP, if it was channeled.

 

Similar to how Exfiltrate goes off of your camera angle and not your character's PoV.

 

Still, I'd prefer them to get rid of the conal AoE function for that ability completely, or just give us a new freaking ability if it's too hard to recode it.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
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It is pathetic. It has made playing my scoundrel healer very tedious, in particular. The damage output of heal spec is so very low now. My other healers do much, much more damage now.

 

It is rather telling that friends with whom I play along with in the game, now always request my merc/sorc/sage healer if we do group stuff. They do not say OP/Scoundrel is bad or anything like that. But...after a few runs with my scoundrel healer, and then some with my other healers....they just ask me to take another because ( as one of them said) "any of the others is just more useful now".

 

The loss of sab charge/exp. probe and Orbital/flyby is a big turn off for me. Honestly, I play Op/Scoundrel a lot less after 3.0. Much of the fun is gone for me, and that is my real measure of a class. I especially loved sabotage charge on my scoundrel. I had such fun sleep darting, sab charge, and charged burst for the last enemy in a group ( who was under the mezz for the fight). Silly maybe, but I play for entertainment and fun.

 

And the truly awful AoE now makes things actually tedious for my sawbones. Not sure what I am gonna do with my Op; I switched to concealment because the Medicine Op has the same tedious feel as sawbones for me now...but I love to play a healer on a class that can heal.

 

I had tried Ruffian/DF on scoundrel and while I see it could probably be really high dps on boss fights...it feels clunky to me. Not to mention the sad "dot spread" mechanic which I found utterly worthless and wasteful.

 

Which again, is the unspeakably awkward and impractical Blaster Volley. I have been point blank range, able to blaster whip the selected enemy, tracers seem to hit/pass through enemy.... and Blaster Volley hits nothing. It defies belief......damned thing can even miss my training dummy at point blank range.

 

I have stood in one spot using the dummy...removing any variables of position, distance, orientation to target, target movement...and just tried using Blaster Volley every time I could. It was, for all intents and purposes....random. Maybe a hit, maybe not. A very telling test of this weird ability. So I just don't place it on my bar.

 

And I hate scrapper punching ( it feels so goofy to me, it is not my taste)....so went back to sawbones.

 

But wow is it tedious anymore.

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The bounty hunter's missile blast. Formerly one of the most useless abilities in the game. Better off now but hunters already have so many AoE abilities (6 for mercs!)...

 

Wrong.

 

Missile Blast is not an AOE against Players, Bosses, Champions, Elites.

 

If it hits Weak or Standard mobs then it does splash damage of half main target damage to up to 8 other targets.

 

Hunters do indeed have many options and they get beaten hugely at AOE anyway by one spammable ability used by sorcs and snipers, quantity doesn't mean quality.

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not sure if anyone has thought of this before....

 

but wouldn't things be better if they just gave us back our orbital strike?

 

Orbital Strike/Freighter fly by had a lot of bad mechanics for a melee. One it took time to cast it, two it was a 5 second warning before it ever hit, and 3 for all that time, it ended up hitting like a wet noodle.

 

After they nerfed the damage, i stopped using it, except in recap prevention situations.

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I've come to the conclusion that during add phases, it is actually better for me to maintain my single target rotation. My damage actually decreases when I attempt to AOE by a significant margin. If I stand and fight a couple of adds during a Trash pull, I can easily maintain over 4,000 dps. Once I start to AOE, I'll find myself at almost 3,000 dps, despite hitting targets. :|

 

In other news, I've made a thread about how horrible the new raids are for Melee. You should check it out, and voice your opinions in it.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=788652

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I'll toss a grenede if it will hit 3 or more mobs. Otherwise I just keep on a target and murder it as it's pointless to bother trying to AOE. I don't mind much in an Op but a bit of useful AOE would be nice for solo play. My Merc and PT are way better, and Sorc+Sniper are better still. It's pretty sad by comparison.
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It would be better but I really doubt they will do this.

 

did i miss the operative outcry for this abbillty to be taken away, did that even happen?

 

was there a week i missed in the ops forums where thread after thread was made asking for the removal of this skill?

 

did the devs ever talk to the player base on this one?

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I'll toss a grenede if it will hit 3 or more mobs. Otherwise I just keep on a target and murder it as it's pointless to bother trying to AOE. I don't mind much in an Op but a bit of useful AOE would be nice for solo play. My Merc and PT are way better, and Sorc+Sniper are better still. It's pretty sad by comparison.

 

Solo play is what really gets me ultimately; I like sawbones for scoundrel and now I feel it is quite tedious. Losing sab charge and flyby have sapped a huge amount of fun from the class for me.

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did i miss the operative outcry for this abbillty to be taken away, did that even happen?

 

was there a week i missed in the ops forums where thread after thread was made asking for the removal of this skill?

 

did the devs ever talk to the player base on this one?

 

Well, according to devs, it did not match their vision for how the Op/Scoundrel should play.

 

 

Now it does not match mine, so I play them very little.

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Threads were made about it, but so few still play Operatives outside of healing that we didn't really see much noise about it. Not that it mattered, since the Devs weren't really in office for the past three weeks. Even still, they usually don't tackle balance for months after an expansion based off patch notes. We'll be very lucky if we see a positive change in the next couple of months. I don't normally wish for other classes to be nerfed, but that will be the only way we'll viability get a 'buff.' Edited by KyoMamoru
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did i miss the operative outcry for this abbillty to be taken away, did that even happen?

 

was there a week i missed in the ops forums where thread after thread was made asking for the removal of this skill?

 

did the devs ever talk to the player base on this one?

 

Snipers were using it on CD as part of their Single Target rotation, so they nerfed OS for Operatives about a year ago. We complained and said that made it next to useless, and apparently their solution was to remove it since it wasn't being used.

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Back with the old extra tick on OS from the Sniper Set bonus it was better for Operatives to get their 2 piece as well. I can't say I miss the days of casting OS on cooldown after doing a backstab+dot refresh; however, having essentially no AOE is killing our viability. =/
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