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Balance HAS to come in the form of Defensive abilities.


BarrinMarshall

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My fellow PVP'ers:

 

I have a theory. I believe that all of the advanced classes, if equally geared, equal datacrons, (*sigh* equal ship parts) :rolleyes: and watnot across the board can all put out a level of DPS that parses within 1-200 of each other. Is this true? The ONLY reason why classes in this game are OP or not just turns on how good their defensive cooldowns and defensive utilities are?

 

For instance, my main is a Sin, first char I made a 1 1/2 years ago. They are top of the food chain right now (along with others). My second character is a sniper. I believe my sniper can kick out just as strong DPS as my sin but is rubbish in PVP right now due to the lack of defensive cooldowns that can keep him in the fight rather than respawning. Is this all the retooling required to make Snipers, Mercs, Marauders, etc. viable again is throwing these classes some kind of DEFENSIVE bone?

 

Even the most generic of "BUFF ME PLEASE" threads on these forums I don't recall the disadvantaged classes whining so much about a lack of DPS, just whining that they drop like flies in 2 shots cause they have no defensive utilites to keep them alive and what they do have is substandard compared to the rest. True?

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Parsing DPS varies quite a bit between specs even, and some classes are superior directly. So you're wrong from the get go.

 

Inno Merc is parsing around 5200..Way above the other classes. Yet they are pretty bads in PvP.

 

He is right. DCD's, mobility.. self-heals.. control utilities are what make or break a class in PvP. All classes can do decent damage given the chance.. The problem is some cannot force this chance.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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I think you are on to something. The 'strong' classes all have CDs that instantly make them very undesirable or very difficult to target. Sorcs have barrier, self heals, and kitability that is over the top. Sins have 5 seconds of tech/force immunity, a target drop/location change/2 seconds of tech/force immunity, a smidge of self healing, and a 50% defensive/CC immunity CD. Jugs have saber reflect, saber ward, focused defense, a substantial health pool and health pack increase with its own mitigation component.

 

The worst classes have a couple things in common beyond their defensive CDs. Merc and sniper are overly reliant on weapon damage, something that nearly every class has a hard counter to. Additionally their defensive CDs are fairly rubbish. They do not make the sniper/merc significantly more difficult to hit or significantly harder to kill. Therein lies the problem. All classes need a mechanism that makes them undesirable to continue killing.

 

In that respect, the current iteration of marauder is the level of balance that should be strived for in regards to defensive CDs. A good mix of escape, damage reduction, and damage negation.

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I think you are on to something. The 'strong' classes all have CDs that instantly make them very undesirable or very difficult to target. Sorcs have barrier, self heals, and kitability that is over the top. Sins have 5 seconds of tech/force immunity, a target drop/location change/2 seconds of tech/force immunity, a smidge of self healing, and a 50% defensive/CC immunity CD. Jugs have saber reflect, saber ward, focused defense, a substantial health pool and health pack increase with its own mitigation component.

 

The worst classes have a couple things in common beyond their defensive CDs. Merc and sniper are overly reliant on weapon damage, something that nearly every class has a hard counter to. Additionally their defensive CDs are fairly rubbish. They do not make the sniper/merc significantly more difficult to hit or significantly harder to kill. Therein lies the problem. All classes need a mechanism that makes them undesirable to continue killing.

 

In that respect, the current iteration of marauder is the level of balance that should be strived for in regards to defensive CDs. A good mix of escape, damage reduction, and damage negation.

 

Merc vs Sorc.. While Sorc survive Merc barely do.. Why?? Because Sorc can kite well.. Stun, many roots and slow. Merc have a melee root and barely have any slow. That's what you forgot.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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Inno Merc is parsing around 5200..Way above the other classes. Yet they are pretty bads in PvP.

 

He is right. DCD's, mobility.. self-heals.. control utilities are what make or break a class in PvP. All classes can do decent damage given the chance.. The problem is some cannot force this chance.

He assumes that all classes have about the same damage capabilities, so defensive cooldowns/utilities are the decisive factor. This is a wrong premise, and there are things that are both defensive and offensive (stealth, mobility/teleport, crowd control) that tip the balance. You're substituting that to his argument yourself before agreeing with him.

 

You do bring up a good point though - the tools you have in PvP are either ones which effect your role into the game, or ones which give you/prolong your the opportunity to do so. One reason marauders complain so much is because they spend the game watching their characters get rooted, pushed, stunned and then gunned down, and there's little they can do to get a chance to do their DPS.

 

My point is it's not solely defensive deficiency. For example, if you gave snipers stealth without a vanish skill, the class would be a lot less problematic (and possibly a bit OP) - except without vanish stealth does not add to defensive capabilities, it only allows a first strike.

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