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PVE Sin Tanking


kridlekid

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So i have looked everywhere i can think of and can't find anything at all. My guild recently started a new progression group and i am the sin offtank. I'm trying to figure out what kind of mitigation numbers i need. Any ideas anyone?
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Has much changed in 3.0?

 

Only depredating volts replacing force lightning, and conspirators cloak having a fixed timer now.

 

And recklessness now grants extra absorption. Personally i'm still using it as an offensive cooldown anyway.

Also, you can now safely open with crushing darkness for extra threat.

If you have the old 4 piece set bonus, KEEP IT!. 4pc and 6pc of the new one are much worse for pve

Edited by Kawabonga
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Only depredating volts replacing force lightning, and conspirators cloak having a fixed timer now.

 

And recklessness now grants extra absorption. Personally i'm still using it as an offensive cooldown anyway.

Also, you can now safely open with crushing darkness for extra threat.

If you have the old 4 piece set bonus, KEEP IT!. 4pc and 6pc of the new one are much worse for pve

 

Much worse is an exaggeration about the 6 piece. It's not as good in most cases, no, but there are times when it's better. The 4 piece is pretty lame in PvE, though.

 

As for Recklessness, you basically want to use it on CD now to decrease DTPS. It's not so great for anything else, since it just boosts your Absorb, which may not trigger if you don't shield attacks, and so you can't reliably use it to take attacks unless they're split up into an absurd 13 hits (Titan 6 Huge Grenade, I'm looking at you).

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As for Recklessness, you basically want to use it on CD now to decrease DTPS. It's not so great for anything else, since it just boosts your Absorb, which may not trigger if you don't shield attacks, and so you can't reliably use it to take attacks unless they're split up into an absurd 13 hits (Titan 6 Huge Grenade, I'm looking at you).

 

I would definitely recommend against blowing DCDs as soon as they come off CD just to reduce total dtps. Some fights without burst incoming raid damage that's fine, but any fight with periods of increased pressure for healers use it like you would any other DCD, to reduce that pressure. Sure recklessness won't cheese anything to the level of shroud, but it's far from worthless. You'd never tell a pt tank to blow explosive fuel on CD just to reduce DTPS.

Edited by namesaretough
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I would definitely recommend against blowing DCDs as soon as they come off CD just to reduce total dtps. Some fights without burst incoming raid damage that's fine, but any fight with periods of increased pressure for healers use it like you would any other DCD, to reduce that pressure. Sure recklessness won't cheese anything to the level of shroud, but it's far from worthless. You'd never tell a pt tank to blow explosive fuel on CD just to reduce DTPS.

 

Yeah, but the difference between Explosive Fuel and Recklessness as a cooldown is that Explosive Fuel is far, far more effective, especially due to the resist chance boost. Maybe "on CD" was a bit much, but don't save it for big hits, it's just not going to help there. It's only reliable when you start taking numerous hits.

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Yeah, but the difference between Explosive Fuel and Recklessness as a cooldown is that Explosive Fuel is far, far more effective, especially due to the resist chance boost. Maybe "on CD" was a bit much, but don't save it for big hits, it's just not going to help there. It's only reliable when you start taking numerous hits.

 

Just like the other sin DCDs you need to know the fight to know the best times to use it. Saying that a DCD needs to be able to totally mitigate a big hit to be useful is inaccurate.

Edited by namesaretough
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Just like the other sin DCDs you need to know the fight to know the best times to use it. Saying that a DCD needs to be able to totally mitigate a big hit to be useful is inaccurate.

 

I didn't say it wasn't useful because it can't mitigate a big hit reliably. I only said that it shouldn't be used like Shroud or Overcharge Saber to save yourself from a one-bit-hit mechanic. I think a good way of thinking of it would be to use it similarly to how you would use Riot Gas for yourself. It would be great against moves that are broken into a series of hits, and not so much to try to defend against a single, bit hit. Unfortunately, I haven't worked through the damage profiles on the new bosses to really be sure where it's best outside of its use for opening threat.

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Yeah, but the difference between Explosive Fuel and Recklessness as a cooldown is that Explosive Fuel is far, far more effective, especially due to the resist chance boost. Maybe "on CD" was a bit much, but don't save it for big hits, it's just not going to help there. It's only reliable when you start taking numerous hits.

 

Explosive Fuel is exactly as effective as Recklessness if you time-average their effect. Actually, Recklessness is slightly better overall, but only slightly. If you treat them as infrequent cooldowns, then it depends on your perspective. Maybe a 2 minute, more powerful cooldown is better than a 90 second, less powerful cooldown. It's a tradeoff, and I think the answer is different for every fight.

 

Given the number of effects timed to 45s intervals in this tier (Targeting Droid, Rage Storm, Mine Carts, just to name a few) I'm tempted to say that, for the current content, Recklessness is the better of the two. Also remember that Recklessness has a lower impact on a higher frequency proc (shielding), meaning that it is a more reliable defensive cooldown than Explosive Fuel.

 

I use it like a traditional defensive CD outside of the opener. Mentally, I treat it like a less potent version of Overcharge without the heal. When possible, I do try to time its activation such that I get a maximal offensive effect as well, but that's a situational judgement call that I make in the moment.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Explosive Fuel is exactly as effective as Recklessness if you time-average their effect. Actually, Recklessness is slightly better overall, but only slightly. If you treat them as infrequent cooldowns, then it depends on your perspective. Maybe a 2 minute, more powerful cooldown is better than a 90 second, less powerful cooldown. It's a tradeoff, and I think the answer is different for every fight.

 

Given the number of effects timed to 45s intervals in this tier (Targeting Droid, Rage Storm, Mine Carts, just to name a few) I'm tempted to say that, for the current content, Recklessness is the better of the two. Also remember that Recklessness has a lower impact on a higher frequency proc (shielding), meaning that it is a more reliable defensive cooldown than Explosive Fuel.

 

I use it like a traditional defensive CD outside of the opener. Mentally, I treat it like a less potent version of Overcharge without the heal. When possible, I do try to time its activation such that I get a maximal offensive effect as well, but that's a situational judgement call that I make in the moment.

 

Are you considering the fact that Explosive Fuel can cause you to resist I/E damage, which Recklessness has no effect on? I'm not sure how prevalent that damage type is in the new ops, but I know the final burn of Revan is an instance of it. It would also help immensely in the final burn in Council. What I was considering (I forgot about the 2 minute cooldown) was that, during the active time, the effect of Explosive Fuel is stronger, and has a very unique use (not to mention how silly things get if you stack Oil Slick with it).

 

Unfortunately, I've moved to a Guardian tank to avoid class-stacking (and because I was enjoying it so much in 2.10, before Riposte went on the GCD), so I haven't gotten to play with Recklessness much or Explosive Fuel at all (no PT and haven't played my VG since expac dropped).

 

In a final, closing though: Have you also considered how silly it is that a move called "Recklessness" is now a DCD?

Edited by Aelanis
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Are you considering the fact that Explosive Fuel can cause you to resist I/E damage, which Recklessness has no effect on? I'm not sure how prevalent that damage type is in the new ops, but I know the final burn of Revan is an instance of it. It would also help immensely in the final burn in Council. What I was considering (I forgot about the 2 minute cooldown) was that, during the active time, the effect of Explosive Fuel is stronger, and has a very unique use (not to mention how silly things get if you stack Oil Slick with it).

 

During the active time, Explosive Fuel is much stronger than Recklessness while it is active. If you time average both of their effects and assume NiM DF damage distributions (including Brontes and CZ, which are very I/E-heavy), Recklessness comes out just a smidgen ahead. Napkin-math compensating for the slightly higher I/E in this tier of operations, I'd say Explosive Fuel closes the gap and comes out pretty darn close to even with Recklessness.

 

But that's before we account for the fact that a TON of mechanics are on 45s timers. Recklessness can be used mostly on cooldown in most fights, and you would be using it to actually legitimately block high damage spikes! Explosive Fuel gets delayed quite a bit, meaning that its effective cooldown on most fights in this tier is longer than the effective cooldown on Recklessness. Add to that the fact that Recklessness is more reliable than Explosive Fuel due to the shielding mechanics, and I'm pretty happy with how it fairs relative to Explosive Fuel.

 

Not to say that EF is a bad cooldown by any means! There are certainly going to be situations where it's better than Recklessness. That's just how cooldowns go. All I'm saying is that I don't believe it is unfair.

 

In a final, closing though: Have you also considered how silly it is that a move called "Recklessness" is now a DCD?

 

Yeah, that's weird.

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