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Consumable slicing missions can not be "working as intended"


Mariojediwookie

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Scavenging

Archeology

Biochemistry

 

I believe these are the three missions that drop from slicing that are currently worthless at level 500. Here is a clue when you know something is wrong, I can't even sell them on the GTN for 5k......they are now vendor fodder because no one aside from someone who hasn't ever used one thinks they are useful.

 

Lets see, you get the same amount as a Rich yield at twice the cost ON TOP OF the cost of the consumable mission itself. Now it appears the devs just used a single formula for all missions and forgot that these specific missions do NOT give purple mats. From memory, the 450 missions gave a lot more output over Rich so why can't we go for that? Right now I would love to use the 40+ missions I have for these but I'm not in the business of crafting to lose money. When I can run 2 rich missions in a THIRD of the time for the same cost and get more, why do these missions even exist other than to remind you the vendor option exists to buy worthless drops.

 

Oh and one more thing, either remove lockbox missions from Treasure Hunting or change it. Right now the Gem missions are the only thing worth running. You literally lose your *** on running lockbox missions. A 90% drop rate for the same worthless schematic that sells for less than 1k credits on the vendor was really a horrible design. It went from getting the occasional purple enhancement/mod or orange modded armor to now the best drop loses you 1k from running the mission. Is this really what you intended.....to only run Gem missions? Don't get me wrong, I like that but the way it is right now the lockbox missions are annoying me when I'm trying to get the Gem missions. If you don't want to "fix" the lockbox drops, then just remove the missions altogether. I really liked the orange modded armor dropping so if that is an option I would prefer that again but I'll settle for the mission to not lose money.

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Agreed. The Gathering Crafting Missions are trash for the most part. The yield gained from the missions is completely wrong, especially with Archaeology. Bioanalysis is probably the best of the bunch, but anyone that actually runs missions for Scavenging Metals when they can buy a stack of 99 on the AH for 250 a piece is just bad at math.

 

Which brings up another point. The cost of gathering crew skill missions is just way too high at this stage in the game. I just think the costs for those missions should be lowered across the board. Approximately 4K for a top yield mission is kind of steep.

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Agreed. The Gathering Crafting Missions are trash for the most part. The yield gained from the missions is completely wrong, especially with Archaeology. Bioanalysis is probably the best of the bunch, but anyone that actually runs missions for Scavenging Metals when they can buy a stack of 99 on the AH for 250 a piece is just bad at math.

 

Which brings up another point. The cost of gathering crew skill missions is just way too high at this stage in the game. I just think the costs for those missions should be lowered across the board. Approximately 4K for a top yield mission is kind of steep.

 

I think part of the problem is that it is so easy to farm the Scav and Bio mats, which leads to oversupply. You can get vastly more Grade 11s than you could Grade 9s while doing the dailies.

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Which brings up another point. The cost of gathering crew skill missions is just way too high at this stage in the game. I just think the costs for those missions should be lowered across the board. Approximately 4K for a top yield mission is kind of steep.

3890cr / 8 mats = 486cr each (for Rich missions)

 

That doesn't seem too high to me.

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I cannot say I disagree that the gathering skill discovered missions are weak. Precisely, they produce an equivalent quantity of all the bountiful missions in the skill combined with some variance in the exact numbers of materials: i.e. BA missions will yield a combination of 12 materials. I have gotten 6 and 6, 8 and 4, and even a 10 and 2 result.

 

Arch is the weakest due to the color crystals. If there was no variance, i think it would be more palatable but when you get 4 artifact fragments and 6 color crystals and 0 power crystals from a discovered mission (like I got over the weekend that is moderately upsetting).

 

Granted discovered missions cannot fail, so you are guaranteed a positive result, but that result is lackluster at best.

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3890cr / 8 mats = 486cr each (for Rich missions)

 

That doesn't seem too high to me.

 

Thing is, you can buy a stack of Scavenged Metals, (sorry forgot the name of that mat), for 250/mat off the GTN (at least on The Bastion).

 

I mean, you're free to do what you want, but by running the gathering missions, you are paying almost twice what I paid for a stack of 99. The cost per yield on the 3750cr missions is even worse.

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Thing is, you can buy a stack of Scavenged Metals, (sorry forgot the name of that mat), for 250/mat off the GTN (at least on The Bastion).

 

I mean, you're free to do what you want, but by running the gathering missions, you are paying almost twice what I paid for a stack of 99. The cost per yield on the 3750cr missions is even worse.

That's more of a supply / demand issue than an incorrect mission cost.

 

When Conquests first started, Chanlon and Plasteel were routinely selling for 1500-3000 cr each -- but that's hardly a good reason for increasing the cost of grade 2 and 3 scavenging missions.

 

In other words, the cost of resale in the GTN isn't a good yardstick to calcuate mission costs.

 

Incidentally, what I started to do for my own crafting, is only run the Compounds missions, while buying the Metals on the GTN. (The compounds were selling from 800-1500 each so those missions were still worthwhile).

Edited by Khevar
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That's more of a supply / demand issue than an incorrect mission cost.

 

When Conquests first started, Chanlon and Plasteel were routinely selling for 1500-3000 cr each -- but that's hardly a good reason for increasing the cost of grade 2 and 3 scavenging missions.

 

In other words, the cost of resale in the GTN isn't a good yardstick to calcuate mission costs.

 

This is true, however, it would make sense to correlate mission costs in some effective way to gathering/resale costs.

 

Incidentally, what I started to do for my own crafting, is only run the Compounds missions, while buying the Metals on the GTN. (The compounds were selling from 800-1500 each so those missions were still worthwhile).

 

I am doing this as well. We should probably keep this on the down low so the inventory for those mats remains high. hehe

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That's more of a supply / demand issue than an incorrect mission cost.

 

When Conquests first started, Chanlon and Plasteel were routinely selling for 1500-3000 cr each -- but that's hardly a good reason for increasing the cost of grade 2 and 3 scavenging missions.

 

In other words, the cost of resale in the GTN isn't a good yardstick to calcuate mission costs.

 

Incidentally, what I started to do for my own crafting, is only run the Compounds missions, while buying the Metals on the GTN. (The compounds were selling from 800-1500 each so those missions were still worthwhile).

 

I agree it's a supply demand issue....but here is the thing, the spawns are so plentiful for everything on Yavin/Rishi that there is ALWAYS going to be a lot being sold on the GTN at a low price.

 

So I just want to be clear, my complaint is I have no use for these gathering missions because cost/reward is not worth it nor will it probably ever be worth it where as before the last patch they were of great use to me. Again, just look at the cost on the GTN, it's laughable how these consumable missions have turned in the speeder schematics that nobody wants (say for a few uneducated but will learn really fast once they get the results). I just want an answer if this is how it was intended or was it an oversight. If it was an oversight, I'm selling all the missions to the vendor and be done with it.

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I just want an answer if this is how it was intended or was it an oversight. If it was an oversight, I'm selling all the missions to the vendor and be done with it.

I'm holding onto mine without running them.

 

When 2.0 first dropped, the return rate for unlockable missions was low, but was increased with Patch 2.01.

 

If a future 3.x patch increases the return rate, I'll have a bunch of missions in my bag to play with. If it doesn't, I can always decide what to do with them later on.

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you get the same amount as a Rich yield

Rich missions give 8 materials (10 on crit), discoveries give 12 (16 on crit). That's 50% more materials.

at twice the cost

Rich missions cost 3890 credits to run, discoveries cost 5830 credits. That's just under a 50% increase in cost.

 

I agree that the discoveries are underwhelming, but please do your research before posting. Hyperbole will only incite people to debunk your claims and distract from the actual point.

This is true, however, it would make sense to correlate mission costs in some effective way to gathering/resale costs.

So what do you propose? Should mission costs track the lowest, average, median or highest price on the GTN? Lowest price is prone to manipulation, and would probably cause prices to take a nosedive as gatherers undercut mission runners. Highest would cause missions to cost millions of credits because some players keep listing mats for ridiculous prices in hopes that someone mistakes the thousands separator for a decimal separator. Average is most likely shot for the same reason. Median might or might not work. And all of these are vulnerable to someone buying out the entire market and relisting at a million credits each. I'm sure someone would, just for the laughs. I don't remember which mat it was, but a while back I summed up the entire market for something and came up at about 5 million credits. That's not a lot.

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Rich missions give 8 materials (10 on crit), discoveries give 12 (16 on crit). That's 50% more materials.

 

Rich missions cost 3890 credits to run, discoveries cost 5830 credits. That's just under a 50% increase in cost.

 

I agree that the discoveries are underwhelming, but please do your research before posting. Hyperbole will only incite people to debunk your claims and distract from the actual point.

 

Oh, you're right.....I was being too generous.

 

On average I have a 15-20% chance to critical a slicing mission to get a consumable mission. I approximately will spend between 15-20k get these awesome gathering missions running slicing missions MYSELF. Oh but if I'm luckily enough to try and buy one it SHOULD be sold at a price where I don't lose money so that means the value should be somewhere in the 30k+ range, right? So when I said you pay twice the amount to get the same thing, what I meant to say is you lose your *** on these missions no matter what stats you throw out. Does that sound like hyperbole?

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Oh, you're right.....I was being too generous.

 

On average I have a 15-20% chance to critical a slicing mission to get a consumable mission. I approximately will spend between 15-20k get these awesome gathering missions running slicing missions MYSELF. Oh but if I'm luckily enough to try and buy one it SHOULD be sold at a price where I don't lose money so that means the value should be somewhere in the 30k+ range, right? So when I said you pay twice the amount to get the same thing, what I meant to say is you lose your *** on these missions no matter what stats you throw out. Does that sound like hyperbole?

 

What you are saying is that you're mad because you don't win the lottery every time you play. RNG is RNG. If you don't want to takes your chances, don't pays your money. If you think that Slicing Lockboxes aren't giving you the RoI you want, stop running them and run something else...like maybe some rich TH Lockbox missions.

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I don't even run Bioanalysis or Scavenging missions at all, I certainly wouldn't buy them. I'm sitting on about 5000 Bio materials and 2000 of each Scavenging material just from world gathering. I just sell those missions to the vendor on my slicers. Goodness knows Slicers aren't starved for cash in this expansion.
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On average I have a 15-20% chance to critical a slicing mission to get a consumable mission. I approximately will spend between 15-20k get these awesome gathering missions running slicing missions MYSELF.

Are you giving the lockboxes away to the poor? Running the full set of slicing lockbox missions costs 12390 credits, and opening the lockboxes typically gives back 14-15k. So you should actually be making money running the lockbox missions, and any mission discoveries you get are a bonus. If you're extra picky, the rich mission gives back about twice its cost, and the abuntant one just about breaks even. Moderate and bountiful are usually a slight loss when considered in isolation.

Does that sound like hyperbole?

It sounds like you forgot some of the facts again; see above.

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I don't even run Bioanalysis or Scavenging missions at all, I certainly wouldn't buy them. I'm sitting on about 5000 Bio materials and 2000 of each Scavenging material just from world gathering. I just sell those missions to the vendor on my slicers. Goodness knows Slicers aren't starved for cash in this expansion.

 

Yeah, the yield of all of the missions, not just the discovered missions, is too low to be worth it when it is so easy to farm the mats on Rishi and Yavin. If I send out 4 companions on all the Rich and Bountiful missions, they will return with what, 28-36 mats 40+ minutes later? In that same time, I could go to Yavin and get 2 stacks of each mat. Yeah, the missions can be run while you are doing other stuff, but why would I bother if I just make a full sweep through the Yavin dailies on a few toons each week and have more mats than I can use?

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So what do you propose? Should mission costs track the lowest, average, median or highest price on the GTN? Lowest price is prone to manipulation, and would probably cause prices to take a nosedive as gatherers undercut mission runners. Highest would cause missions to cost millions of credits because some players keep listing mats for ridiculous prices in hopes that someone mistakes the thousands separator for a decimal separator. Average is most likely shot for the same reason. Median might or might not work. And all of these are vulnerable to someone buying out the entire market and relisting at a million credits each. I'm sure someone would, just for the laughs. I don't remember which mat it was, but a while back I summed up the entire market for something and came up at about 5 million credits. That's not a lot.

 

I was thinking more in terms of mission cost as related to available nodes to be gathered, not directly related to the GTN. As you point out above, the GTN is a free market of sorts that is prone to its own potential fluctuations. It would be a bad standard to follow.

 

The issue we are facing is, more or less, that there was a pretty significant increase in gathering resource nodes in 3.0. They are everywhere in both Rishi and Yavin.

 

At the same time, the cost of crew skill missions continued to remain high. The ease of gathering materials has therefore outpaced actually running crew skill missions to obtain the materials in many cases.

 

What I would propose is if the Devs are going to increase the availability of resource nodes, they also decrease the cost of the actual crew skill missions. I believe that would help balance things out.

 

There is also a concern in the future that crew skill missions themselves will keep rising. Of course, we don't have a crystal ball to tell how long this game will last, but our next expansion will likely put crew skill gathering missions at around 5K a pop. That would put the cost of two crew skill missions at the equivalent cost of completing a daily on Czerka. That may not seem like a lot to us, but to many players, inflated costs like that would turn them off from the crew skill stuff entirely.

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That may not seem like a lot to us, but to many players, inflated costs like that would turn them off from the crew skill stuff entirely.

 

But the intent of that "inflation" is to target players like us to get more credits out of the system. Those who do not have the credits can spend time gathering nodes and IMO that is the intent of the "explosion" of nodes - it makes farming nodes a real option.

 

How many of "us" do you really think spend time farming nodes when we could be doing things in game we enjoy more? Players like us (who have umpteen zillion credits) can afford to send companions on missions and/or buy materials from others and still profit. If you enjoy running dailies and gathering nodes, have at it. Personally, I have done the daily quests on Rishi a total of four times (three "sets" while leveling; I was in the area anyway and it's good XP). I have done the dailies on Yavin (outside of working toward solo completion) only once. Those I will probably do more until I get legend rep then I am DONE.

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IWhat I would propose is if the Devs are going to increase the availability of resource nodes, they also decrease the cost of the actual crew skill missions. I believe that would help balance things out.

 

I'm not sure what you think is imbalanced. I think that there are too many gathering nodes (and gatherable creatures) in the new areas, but I don't think that because of the prices on the GTN or the cost-per-mat for running a mission, I think that because when I looked at max-zoom-out mini-map and see seven Slicing Lockboxes, I think "Dmn! That's lot of nodes." And when I realize that some of them are respawning before I get all of the ones in my view, I think, "Guy could make a decent living setting up a farm here."

 

I don't want them to lower mission costs so that I can profitably sell mats at more competitive prices, I want them to reduce or spread out the gathering nodes. That said, it's possible that they put in a lot to start because they expected a lot of players; hopefully they will monitor the situation and reduce the node density (or increase respawn times) when the next new zones are added (or player count decreases) -- not because of the effect on prices, but because it shouldn't be *that* faceroll easy to farm mats.

 

When you select a Gather Skill, you get the option to pick up the materials yourself or run missions to get them. You choose how you want to pay for the mats -- time or money. If (like many of us here) you value you your time, buy the mats. You can calculate the average cost per mat for running a mission, so do that, check the GTN, and either run the mission or buy the mats depending on which way is cheaper.

 

If your goal is to get mats for one of your characters with a crafting skill, you should be *happy* when the mats you want go "on sale" on the GTN (for less than the best mission cost). If your goal is to make money by selling mats, than either go out and farm the mats if that is more profitable than running the missions or look into selling different mats. There are 8 grades of mats, and you should have two or three other gathering/mission skills, so try another grade or type of mat.

 

Finally, "balancing" Gathering Mission costs against the number of nodes is pointless. The current cost-per-mat for scavenging and bio mats is what, 600 CR? If you dropped that to zero (reduced Gathering mission cost by 100%), that wouldn't change how many people are gathering the mats and selling them on the GTN. So even if the GTN price was a stable 600, this would be a maximum profit of 600 CR per unit. While I might be willing to run missions for that sort of profit, I usually aim quite a bit higher. And right now, the mats about which you are complaining are going for what -- half that? You should be able to get better than 300 CR per unit just by changing mats (you can get better than that buying Vanadium Flux from the vendor and reselling it, selling VF from a mission is, of course, better). Or would you like the "balancing" to make it so that missions have a negative cost, so that you could can still make 600 CR selling stuff at 300 CR?

Edited by eartharioch
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I'm holding onto mine without running them.

 

When 2.0 first dropped, the return rate for unlockable missions was low, but was increased with Patch 2.01.

 

If a future 3.x patch increases the return rate, I'll have a bunch of missions in my bag to play with. If it doesn't, I can always decide what to do with them later on.

Totally called it -- yay me. :D

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1122015/game-update-3.0.2-patch-notes

Missions + NPCs

...

  • Scavenging, Bioanalysis and Archaeology Wealthy Missions now give more materials

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That's handy though I don't think there was an issue to begin with personally beyond what people "expect" to get.

 

For example people claiming Archaeology to best the worst, it's not, the pricing on the GTN is what is ideally "wrong".

 

I bought a few of those a while back for quite cheap ( sub 10K ) and that returned a profit ( yet to only get colour crystals, that would suck ) in material value and then for some stupid reason they were up over 20K ( not logged in now so can't check current price ) so I stopped buying them and checked again maybe a day or 2 later and same story.

 

Now I would like to think they were only sitting at that price because someone is actually buying them for what could be more than the returned value of materials, why they do that ... who knows, maybe the guy selling dye modules that cost around 50-60K to craft in mat value on Harb for under 40K could tell us *shrug*.

 

In the end everything is supply and demand. These new 3.0 mats etc. have given us even more areas to expand in thus reducing supply in others ( but not necessarily demand due to conquest etc. ). Point in case lower level artifact fragements still go for a mint and you can often buy up those mission discoveries much cheaper since 3.0 - swings and round abouts really and you can always find a win.

 

Just because it's the "newest" mats/crafts/items etc. doesn't mean you have to go for them if your goal is profit.

 

Also in this patch we get grade 11 mats to the jawa's - can anyone recommend a good blue grade mat to buy up? I'm sitting on 1000's of these things :(

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And I'm glad I listened to you. Honestly I thought it was a longshot, but the missions were a waste of time to run them as they were. Hanging on to them was no great burden.

 

Now I have a cargo hold nearly full of these things. Running 1 of each now to see what comes back.

 

Also in this patch we get grade 11 mats to the jawa's - can anyone recommend a good blue grade mat to buy up? I'm sitting on 1000's of these things :(

 

Same question. I was just looking through those blue mats and can't figure out what to spend the scrap on.

Edited by MaximilianPower
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