Petition to get rid of credit sink with moving armor mods

[stevmed]

Now with 3.0 and the new feature of removing the credit cost of abilities this current credit sink with mods needs to go also. It costs about 12k-13k per mod just to pull it out and times that by three mods per piece of armor minus belt and bracers comes out to 180k for all armor minus belt/bracer. If you add the other two its 228000 every time you want to make a new look for your character. If you also wish for a new offhand and main hand the new total is 312000 credits.

 

Personally my opinion is with all this cartel market outfits that is always being added people want to wear but do not wish to spend 300k plus to mod out a new outfit.

 

The solution you ask is we have two options. First we can remove the cost of removing mods from armor or we can add a new feature to the game an appearnace tab that overrides the current armor and shows the cosmetic armor of our choice.

 

Either of these two choices will boost the market for people buying cartel armor and help the overall economy in my opinion by removing a very silly credit sink.

 

Thoughts and opinions will be appreciated and thank you for your time.

[MaximusRex]

I agree that mod pulling is much too big a credit sink, and it mainly serves to discourage players form using custom gear appearances for themselves and their companions, which in turns hurts sales of these armors that come form the Cartel Market.

[Warrgames]

If you are too cheap to swap mods, you are too cheap to buy CM gear.

[psandak]

I saw this coming: give an inch...

 

MMOs NEED money sinks. Because money is generated out of thin air (mobs spawn from no where, and drop random loot; and quest rewards are created ad infinitum), that money has to go back into thin air eventually. Or there would be massive inflation. See

for details

 

I agree that mod pulling is much too big a credit sink, and it mainly serves to discourage players form using custom gear appearances for themselves and their companions, which in turns hurts sales of these armors that come form the Cartel Market.

 

Or it could be an incentive to play the game to acquire the credits necessary to change appearance.

[stevmed]

I agree there needs to e credit sinks but there is also the option of adding an appearance tab into the game also for pure cosmetics that could also help. This could also keep the credit sink for optimising gear.

[KyaniteD]

I saw this coming: give an inch...

 

MMOs NEED money sinks. Because money is generated out of thin air (mobs spawn from no where, and drop random loot; and quest rewards are created ad infinitum), that money has to go back into thin air eventually. Or there would be massive inflation. See

for details

 

Or it could be an incentive to play the game to acquire the credits necessary to change appearance.

 

I agree only partially. Yes, money sinks are needed, but this particular money sink is indirectly tied to the cash shop. I have ~250 CM armor sets and I'd unlock and use a lot more of them if it were cheaper to equip and use them. But at ~1M per outfit (mods removal & augmentation for 7 pieces) it is rather easy to curb my urges and save the coins and credits. I'm a collector, so I get the sets, anyway. But other people don't bother buying even the cheap sets, because what good is it to get a set for 100k if you have to spend ten times as much to equip it?

 

(And i'm not sure how big of an inflation effect there would be if people actually aren't spending the credits right now, either, because they deem it too expensive and essentially unnecessary, unlike training.)

Edited January 3, 2015 by KyaniteD

[CloudCastle]

The cost for pulling mods is an unnecessary credit sink. So many other credit sinks have been introduced into the game since then that it has become overkill. (Strongholds - unlocks, decorations; Conquest - crafting, guild ships; Augment "installation" fees.)

 

It's a deterrent to enjoying a major aspect of the game, which is customizing your char's look. There is no logical reason to discourage outfit-changing in the game and other games do not charge such fees. I would gladly be buying many more armors for my chars if I knew I could change them whenever I wanted. Right now the cost is quite prohibitive for me:

 

Outfit cost

Pulling mod cost

Pulling mod cost again if I am swapping companion mods

Augment kit cost

Augment cost

Augment installation cost

 

And this goes for every single piece of clothing my character wears, not whole outfits! That's seven pieces of armor, nine if you count the weapons, and then each individual piece times three for all the mods. Several times I have bought awesome new sets of armor only to have them wallow unused in my cargo bay, once I realized how ridiculous the cost would be to change. No one likes watching their credits disappear into nowhere for no good reason.

 

And don't even consider re-outfitting your companions in cool, new looks either, because that's just adding insult to injury.

Edited January 3, 2015 by CloudCastle

[Warrgames]

The cost for pulling mods is an unnecessary credit sink. So many other credit sinks have been introduced into the game since then that it has become overkill. (Strongholds - unlocks, decorations; Conquest - crafting, guild ships; Augment "installation" fees.)

 

It's a deterrent to enjoying a major aspect of the game, which is customizing your char's look. There is no logical reason to discourage outfit-changing in the game and other games do not charge such fees. I would gladly be buying many more armors for my chars if I knew I could change them whenever I wanted. Right now the cost is quite prohibitive for me:

 

Outfit cost

Pulling mod cost

Pulling mod cost again if I am swapping companion mods

Augment kit cost

Augment cost

Augment installation cost

 

And this goes for every single piece of clothing my character wears, not whole outfits! That's seven pieces of armor, nine if you count the weapons, and then each individual piece times three for all the mods. Several times I have bought awesome new sets of armor only to have them wallow unused in my cargo bay, once I realized how ridiculous the cost would be to change. No one likes watching their credits disappear into nowhere for no good reason.

 

And don't even consider re-outfitting your companions in cool, new looks either, because that's just adding insult to injury.

 

People need to learn what a credit sink is. Credit sink removes credits from the economy. Buying outfits doesn't count unless its from a vendor in game. Augments and augments kits aren't credit sinks, the credits go to another player.

[Tsillah]

They just removed costs for learning skills. Getting a bit greedy are we?

 

The only thing I do agree with is the augmenting business. It's one thing to pay 30-40k for moving mods on a piece of armour, but over 100k just to move the augment is rather rough.

 

I know they said something about this a few months ago and I hope they will. In essence it also hurts their CM business in the sense that people are loathe to change looks on their characters because of the costs involved.

 

Credit sinks are needed though and what you might not know is that in the beginning money was a lot tighter in game and the cost of removing mods was much higher than now. Much higher and you couldn't even move the mods to alts back then. So really, you don't know how good you have it now in comparison.

 

Also because of the removel of skill costs, leveling characters from 55-60 leaves them with just shy of a million credits to spend. 12k for a high level mod, it's no big deal. Do ilum dailies for 15 mins and you have about 70k. It's really not that hard.

[Skiritai]

LOTRO

 

Easy fix, DEVS, start up a char on lotro, take a look at that fantastic cosmetic system...copy it.

 

The end.

[KyaniteD]

People need to learn what a credit sink is. Credit sink removes credits from the economy. Buying outfits doesn't count unless its from a vendor in game. Augments and augments kits aren't credit sinks, the credits go to another player.

As far as I can tell, no one said augments or augmentation kits are credit sinks. It's just been stated that the costs for those combined with the actual sinks (modification removal and augmentation kit installation) add up to an amount that discourages frequent outfit changes.

 

 

They just removed costs for learning skills. Getting a bit greedy are we?

You're right, which is why I don't put much actual hope into this. If we'd been given the choice, I would have preferred they keep the training costs and do something to make outfit switching cheaper.

 

 

In the end, it makes little difference to me. I would switch outfits if it were cheaper, but as long as it's not I won't. So either way I'm not spending those credits.

[inoutallabout]

I agree that mod pulling is much too big a credit sink, and it mainly serves to discourage players form using custom gear appearances for themselves and their companions, which in turns hurts sales of these armors that come form the Cartel Market.

 

Brilliant observation.

[Tsillah]

Brilliant observation.

 

Just not sure how true it is. When I see the lengths some people in game go through to get the new Revan armour or whatever...

 

Still this is an old discussion and all these points already came by. BW were looking at doing some things related to this but said it wasn't for the expansion release but sometime after. Nothing solid was said as such but it was clear it was a topic. I am pretty sure if it was really hurting their CM sales action would've already been taken but I think even if it's not a problem yet for CM sales it may very well become one over time.

 

At the same time, I do believe the credit sink system is mostly to keep the economy in check at least to some degree and that is necessary. Inflation is already quite high. I also believe the system was also there to not make it too easy to move mods to other characters but still allowing it to help altoholics. Since wanting to change a look doesn't fall in that category I imagine that's why they are looking into doing some things to make changing the outfit of your character easier.

 

Time will tell I guess. So not bad to mention that it's still alive. As I said, I mostly want something done about augmenting. I'd rather that the gear slots are augmented and not the gear itself if you know what I mean. That would already help a great deal.

[LordArtemis]

I would generally support this, some kind of system change that would reduce the required frequency of mod swaps (perhaps a separate appearance system (paperdoll)) or a simple further reduction in cost.

 

The easiest is probably the final option. If they reduced costs to around 25 percent of what they are now, the cost would be negligible IMO.

 

At the same time they should remove all level and class requirements from moddable gear of all types. To have those kind of restrictions in place is silly IMO. There is plenty of moddable gear that folks can craft that would be much more appealing if it didn't have level and class restrictions.

Edited January 3, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Anzel]

/signed

 

The cost for removing mods should be 0 for subscribers. Same for dyes. Dyes should be REMOVABLE and should cost 0 credits to remove them.

[LordArtemis]

/signed

 

The cost for removing mods should be 0 for subscribers. Same for dyes. Dyes should be REMOVABLE and should cost 0 credits to remove them.

 

I am not sure I would agree with dyes, but I would reduce the requirements to make dyes dramatically, move more dyes to the craftable area of the game, and reduce dye costs as well on the CM. Dyes are too rare and should not be treated as money making opportunities. They are appearance customization items and should be treated as such.

 

I like the idea of reduced or zero cost of removal for subs.

[howieloader]

I think we're getting into an area where people are just wanting things handed to them without any effort... In a lot of ways we passed that point a long time ago... Removing the cost from the ability trainer was the worst thing Bioware could've done because now people see anything that operates on the principle of requiring credits to achieve X purpose as a hindrance to their enjoyment of the game or that it is in some way "unfair"...

 

I'm usually in the camp of leniency on things like more experience boost events and cheaper dye modules, that sort of thing, but I firmly believe that the system for removing and replacing mods should stay as is because making almost any change is capitulating to the side of laziness...

 

The only change I would really be in favor of is making dye modules reusable... I'm not suggesting put them into the collections system, but if each individual dye module could be removed from one piece of armor and placed in another then I think that would be a nice addition...

[wainot-keel]

I agree only partially. Yes, money sinks are needed, but this particular money sink is indirectly tied to the cash shop. I have ~250 CM armor sets and I'd unlock and use a lot more of them if it were cheaper to equip and use them. But at ~1M per outfit (mods removal & augmentation for 7 pieces) it is rather easy to curb my urges and save the coins and credits. I'm a collector, so I get the sets, anyway. But other people don't bother buying even the cheap sets, because what good is it to get a set for 100k if you have to spend ten times as much to equip it?

 

(And i'm not sure how big of an inflation effect there would be if people actually aren't spending the credits right now, either, because they deem it too expensive and essentially unnecessary, unlike training.)

 

Yup. During 12x I bought quite a few CM sets off the GTN that I didn't have, bought them with the characters I was going to use them. But I didn't buy the unlocks on collections because of this very reason.

I, for one, am a lot more willing to pay real money for the unlocks (which actually supports the game) than spending millions of in-game currency simply to try out for a week one set on a character or companion. Given the the "prohibiting" costs of mods movement I just don't do anything, I don't spend my real money and I don't spend the in-game currency. Of course, others draw the line in terms of costs differently, still...

 

Augments and augments kits aren't credit sinks, the credits go to another player.

 

We're talking about moving out mods to put them on another set. Installing the augment kits is part of that process. The installation alone almost double the cost of such movement and this installation doesn't go to any player, that's another credit sink.

 

They just removed costs for learning skills. Getting a bit greedy are we?

 

When I heard about the removal of training costs my reaction was two sided. One, "yay". And the other "crap... now asking for a reduction in mod ripping got a lot harder"

 

I don't mind paying for my skills, even if they were high as they were during SoR early access, because that's a one time thing, or until the next expansion which willl be who knows when.... But ripping mods ? Man.... that's a very very common thing on your character, because you're min-maxing or simply because you want a change of looks....

 

I would gladly pay one or two millions (just to throw a number) on a character perk to have mod ripping (and kit installment) costs removed on that toon. That would certainly encourage me to spend coins on unlocks and more CM set buys

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I change the look on my main characters a lot and would welcome a change to at least make it cheaper. The credits I'd save I'd just end up spending on the GTN anyways.

[Kourage]

As much as I'd like to test out what i could parse with 1 set of augments verses another, the cost is too steep to remove 14 of them.

[Deaderguy]

Agree with op, perhaps make this a subscriber thing. I understand there needs to be money sinks but I just sank a bunch of money and time into a expansion that really didn't warrant the cost. The lag and ability delay has and still is way out of control and no timeline to fix other than and ASSurance their working on it. Sorry -frustrated

[Mowermanx]

There are ways to sink credits that doesn't negatively effect gameplay options.

For those that were not around early on, there was a massive influx of credits in the game, some via exploits and others were just oversights from the devs, too much handed out on some missions and slicing in particular. They adjusted all these, but had to find a way to get a lot of those credits out of the game.

They then released a quick patch that put a vendor on the fleet that sold white crystals and Korrealis mounts for quite a lot of credits. Overnight, this method sapped billions out of the economy, and this method is used by quite a few games because it is very effective and doesn't negatively effect everyday gameplay features.

[StrangeDais]

Just get rid of credits entirely. Everything should be free of charge. What say you comrades?

[ivanhedgehog]

People need to learn what a credit sink is. Credit sink removes credits from the economy. Buying outfits doesn't count unless its from a vendor in game. Augments and augments kits aren't credit sinks, the credits go to another player.

 

adding an augment kit is 42k of credit sink per item. the money paid to the station does not go to a player. they could just add a 2% tax to any character with over 5 million once a month...would work fine.

 

customizing characters builds attachment to that character. that builds attachment to the game. genericharacters dont help to keep people playing and definately dont build cartel coin sales. the current system works against the population and profits of the game.

[ivanhedgehog]

I think we're getting into an area where people are just wanting things handed to them without any effort... In a lot of ways we passed that point a long time ago... Removing the cost from the ability trainer was the worst thing Bioware could've done because now people see anything that operates on the principle of requiring credits to achieve X purpose as a hindrance to their enjoyment of the game or that it is in some way "unfair"...

 

I'm usually in the camp of leniency on things like more experience boost events and cheaper dye modules, that sort of thing, but I firmly believe that the system for removing and replacing mods should stay as is because making almost any change is capitulating to the side of laziness...

 

The only change I would really be in favor of is making dye modules reusable... I'm not suggesting put them into the collections system, but if each individual dye module could be removed from one piece of armor and placed in another then I think that would be a nice addition...

 

using your logic, they should remove the gtn, you should have to harvest all mats and build all gear, you lazy person.