lets talk Socerer's! Seriously, no hat just realy come on now?

[MarcoMontana]

Try capping or some other objectives. Wzs are more than deathmatch dmg stats. 2M dmg means nothing when you lose every single match.

 

When the opposing teams 4 Sorcs are farming your team objectives aren't possible!

[kriegheld]

When the opposing teams 4 Sorcs are farming your team objectives aren't possible!

 

You guys exaggerate too much. Sorcs are easy to shut down. Once their defense skills are on CD, they are dead.

 

I'm sure you're amazing at pvp, you'll figure it out.

[Master-Nala]

I disagree with this. Healing is part of their "survivability." If they got rid of their heals they would be given something else. Op and merc dps heals are fine (debatable for merc as in not fine enough). Sorc dps heals are the only one that need nerfed. They need to get rid of dark heal for dps sorcs. They already have a very high crit insta heal, and a smaller insta heal. The actual active heal abilities aren't really the main issue though.

 

Posts like this just have me scratching my head. However, you feel about Sorcerers, Dark Heal shouldn't even be in the top 5 issues for most people. Lightning/TK might use Dark Heal a bit, but Madness hardly ever has to use this with its passive healing and Force Leech.

 

That and they gave Operatives Kolto Probe as a baseline ability and we're here talking about Sorcerer healing.

[Saikochoro]

Yeah I stated at the bottom that the active heal abilities aren't really the issue. I think DPS op heals are fine. I was mainly stating that because I think the mercs would feel it's more fair.

[kriegheld]

Posts like this just have me scratching my head. However, you feel about Sorcerers, Dark Heal shouldn't even be in the top 5 issues for most people. Lightning/TK might use Dark Heal a bit, but Madness hardly ever has to use this with its passive healing and Force Leech.

 

That and they gave Operatives Kolto Probe as a baseline ability and we're here talking about Sorcerer healing.

 

There are (were) 4 viable class specs for pvp. OP being one of them. You're not allowed to speak of the Special 4. Only the new specs and classes that have a chance now.

[Master-Nala]

Yeah I stated at the bottom that the active heal abilities aren't really the issue. I think DPS op heals are fine. I was mainly stating that because I think the mercs would feel it's more fair.

 

I think DPS Mercs could use a boost to their healing, but that's another thing entirely from saying that Sorcs need to lose Dark Heal.

[Powerhearse]

They were viable before 3.0.

No they weren't.

 

If you are losing to a sniper you need to learn to LOS. No sorc should lose to a sniper ever.

LOS is not always an option. Plus, as I said, roll.

 

Hatred sins and very good juggs im sure can still give you a problem Really good concealment ops probably too. But a equally skilled madness sorc should beat the jugg. Should beat the op most times because you should be taking your roots to stop him from rolling. Hatred sins and AP PT are probably the only thing I would worry about. If you are having problems with maras I dont know what to tell you.

sorc cannot challenge any other dps class face to face. Kiting and LOS has always been the sorc game and that is what these numbnuts are calling to nerf. Given equal skill a jugg or even a Mars should obliterate a sorc. I know, I do it to sorcs regularly on both and I'm nowhere near as proficient with those as I am with my sorc. Even post 3.0 sorcs are still squishy.

 

Well if you stayed in bubble the whole time then coupled with enduring bastion and utility you should be at almost full health. Learn to stun them first. Most good sorcs Ive come across will stun the melee right when bubble ends and run away.

Not everyone wasted points on the bubble heal, there are better options for decent dos classes. Plus any decent player will stun you the instant you come out of bubble to counteract enduring bastion.

 

Most warzones and arenas Ive done the top performers have been sorcs and pts.

most wz and arenas I've done top performers are still PT and sniper for dps. Sorcs still have no significant burst

 

HAHAHAHAHA. Again if you are losing to a mara then you are playing sorc wrong. They are a very good 1v1 class as many others have already stated. Perhaps not the best, but very good.

 

You are wrong. If you can't beat a sorc 1v1 with any melee class then the sorc is far better than you at playing his class.

 

 

Perhaps you should blame ping instead of snipers then. Sorcs should beat snipers every time. Why do you think you should be able to face tank? Learn to LOS.

 

Once again, LOS is not always an option. Decent snipers use their root followed by ambush to wipe out ~30% of your health before you even get a chance, assuming your ping doesn't **** you over. And assuming they don't just roll towards you and repeat.

 

I agree operatives were better than sorcs pre 3.0. The gaap is much closer now with many considering sorcs better heals. I personally am no so sure, but its possible. Pre 3.0 I encountered many very good sorc healers. You have several heals now that you can insta cast and move with and you have barrier + bastion. My beef actually isnt with healing sorcs

i play both specs extensively, but sorc is my main. Op heals are still far superior to sorc heals.

 

 

Name other classes that have had all three specs viable before 3.0. Operative: people would rage at you if you queued ranked as concealment. "Spec heals or ****." How many people considered anni maras ranked material? How about before madness buff? Would you have taken a madness sin in a ranked arena? Or normal warzone for that matter? Remember when everyone though vengeance juggs sucked? Or that the whole dps class was squishy without ED? Hardly any class has had all 3 trees/discplines viable at the same time. There is a difference between viable and over the top.

 

Sniper, jugg, sin. All 3 specs in all 3 I've played successfully in pvp. Lightning spec was until 3.0 the single most useless spec in the game in pvp. Sorcs have been in desperate need of buffs since 1.5 or so.

This may be true for many of the unskilled sorcs. The ones that actually know how to play the class well can kick butt solo. ALL classes do better with a supporting team that is better than the opposing team. What did you expect? You think a vengeance jugg is better alone than with a team? There are other classes that have a much harder time without support (i.e. mercs, maras, and snipers to name a few). Sorcs can do very well on their own.

it is true for all sorcs, they are not and never will be a solo class. I play my vengeance jugg far more successfully 1v1 than my sorc, and I've probably played him for 1/20th the time

 

I don't know....your post sounds very whiney to me. Nobody wants sorcs to be dead meat again, but they have a full tool belt that nobody else does. You act like any nerf would absolutely kill your class. Get over yourself.

 

Sorcs have 1 cc, 2 roots in madness spec. How is that a full tool belt? They have some kiting/survivability ability because they are the predominant class for the kiting play style. Not OP, finally balanced. Deal with it

 

I still melt sorcs on every class I play, including other sorcs. Ive even melted a sorc with my mara, but most were not very good at playing sorcs. When I come against a sorc that actually knows what its doing I dont win on my sniper or mara. Its a gamble with my jugg. My pt I can usually still win. Hatred sin I can usually still win. Operative its a gamble (only because I play operatives more than anything else so I am pretty good at it). You have enough roots to kick an operatives trash though.

 

Really? 2 decent roots (assuming madness spec) and it negates your op? Maybe you're actually not that good at op...I think this whole situation comes down to people learning to play their class. Sorc is not an anti-class to anything, so they have to be decent against everyone. They really are a jack of all trades; less survivable in face to face combat than any other class and certainly not one of the easier classes to play. I find both jugg and sniper far easier classes to play successfully.

Only the really good sorc players are melting faces right now, and those same guys were already melting faces before

Only the really horrible to mediocre sorcs are having a hard time right now. I would consider myself mediocre at sorc, but I don't really have a hard time versus most. Same could be said for any class. Only the really good hatred sins are melting face right now. Only really good AP PTs are melting face right now. Yeah, uhuh....that's totally it.

 

Less QQ, more l2P

[KrackShotz]

Lol I don't play sorc, don't even have one leveled up past 27 and I think sorcs fine besides that cheap aoe spam. As for assassins or ops, they need to be able to successfully get back into stealth safely and there's still plenty of counter play to that. Other than the possibility of their ridiculously long immunity to cc (which is what people are really ************ about because you all love stun wars and free kills off cc) assassins are fine.

 

As a melee class you have to remember assassin have no heal full or defense mechanic to starve off dmg under heavy focus like a jugg or pt gets. When under focus, just like a sorc they fall fast. While they do have decent dcds it often leaves them out of the fight doing no dmg so that's the trade off to the immunity and i think that's fair play. As for sorc bubble heal to full lulz business. I don't see it any differently than jugg ed. They get a second life? So what? As low as the ttk is now does it really matter that you have to cycle your rotation 1 more time? How are sorcs suppose to counter play under focus? That is what you should be asking. Not demanding free kill.

 

Really the only class that should be complaining about balance are mercs and all they need are similar mechanics that grant them immunity like everyone else has.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KrackShotz

[MarcoMontana]

You guys exaggerate too much. Sorcs are easy to shut down. Once their defense skills are on CD, they are dead.

 

I'm sure you're amazing at pvp, you'll figure it out.

 

Team we played last night against... Got to love the class diversity huh?

 

http://s21.postimg.org/ycylvk5kj/Screenshot_2014_12_30_19_26_06_177800.jpg

Edited December 31, 2014 by MarcoMontana

[Silcalm]

Lol I don't play sorc, don't even have one leveled up past 27 and I think sorcs fine besides that cheap aoe spam. As for assassins or ops, they need to be able to successfully get back into stealth safely and there's still plenty of counter play to that. Other than the possibility of their ridiculously long immunity to cc (which is what people are really ************ about because you all love stun wars and free kills off cc) assassins are fine.

 

As a melee class you have to remember assassin have no heal full or defense mechanic to starve off dmg under heavy focus like a jugg or pt gets. When under focus, just like a sorc they fall fast. While they do have decent dcds it often leaves them out of the fight doing no dmg so that's the trade off to the immunity and i think that's fair play. As for sorc bubble heal to full lulz business. I don't see it any differently than jugg ed. They get a second life? So what? As low as the ttk is now does it really matter that you have to cycle your rotation 1 more time? How are sorcs suppose to counter play under focus? That is what you should be asking. Not demanding free kill.

 

Really the only class that should be complaining about balance are mercs and all they need are similar mechanics that grant them immunity like everyone else has.

 

 

short question: do you know what phase walk do?

 

a 45 sec dcd thats port you out of the focus while stunned for example

a sin is too strong atm with 12 sec immunity ...

 

erase that utility and giv all classes a 4 sec immunity to all negative effects after using stunbreak

[KrackShotz]

yes, I have an assassin it's the only class i solo queue rank with and tend to win 98% of matches there. I also tanked with it in team ranked. like i said, something like phase walk leaves you out of the fight doing zero dmg. it's not a reset, it's not a heal to full, not even an disengage. you go hide somewhere hopefully to force a switch in target. Edited December 31, 2014 by KrackShotz

[MarcoMontana]

yes, I have an assassin it's the only class i solo queue rank with and tend to win 98% of matches there. I also tanked with it in team ranked. like i said, something like phase walk leaves you out of the fight doing zero dmg. it's not a reset, it's not a heal to full, not even an disengage. you go hide somewhere hopefully to force a switch in target.

 

Sins are the Melee version of a Sorc right now they too need adjusting.

[KrackShotz]

Sins are the Melee version of a Sorc right now they too need adjusting.

 

when i see this what it tells me is that people are looking for free kills. they want to stun lock death ez mode and sorc bubble heal to full sorc or assassin that disappear and refocus is mechanics they can't handle because well quite frankly they're stupid.

 

the only thing assassins got in their kit that wasn't there pre3.0 was resilience on shroud, you can make it last longer making it immune to cc, mitigating large chunks of burst. stun lock deaths are harder and you don't want that. how dare assassin finally gain survivablity in the dot spec. just about every class, except mercs have good mechanics that increase their survivablity.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KrackShotz

[MarcoMontana]

when i see this what it tells me is that people are looking for free kills. they want to stun lock death ez mode and sorc bubble heal to full sorc or assassin that disappear and refocus is mechanics they can't handle because well quite frankly they're stupid.

 

the only thing assassins got in their kit that wasn't there pre3.0 was resilience on shroud, you can make it last longer making it immune to cc. making stun lock death harder and you don't want that.

 

Well try running around as any other class with an entire WZ of Sorcs and Sins... Stealth, Damage mitigation, high burst, dots, aoe, semi heals, cc locks come on!

Edited December 31, 2014 by MarcoMontana

[KrackShotz]

Well try running around as any other class with an entire WZ of Sorcs and Sins... Stealth, Damage mitigation, high burst, dots, aoe, semi heals, cc locks come on!

 

dude beside sorc i have all the main classes 60 and in full tier 2 gear. pt, merc, assassin and op. i've been around the block i just don't play one class. i've seen all the setups. people let assassins run around tearing **** up instead of focusing them down. they let sorc sit there and free cast. once an assassin burns thru their dcd they're dead, they don't get heal to full.

 

from what i've seen of sorc, they do alot of fluff dmg but most people who play the class are just bad. now if you are playing regs and you see 4 or 5 assassin running around i mean what class isn't problematic when you got 4 or 5 of them running around?

 

but all the time in regs i see assassin who barely break 350k dmg i think the avg is 500k when i know i can do on avg 1.5 mil. if you aren't hitting 1.5k dps they are bad at the class. you're just mad because assassin are quite frankly easy to play and dmg is easy to do.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KrackShotz

[Raansu]

They were viable before 3.0.

No they weren't.

 

Uhm.....yes they were lmao. Madness was 100% viable in team ranked.

[MarcoMontana]

dude beside sorc i have all the main classes 60 and in full tier 2 gear. pt, merc, assassin and op. i've been around the block i just don't play one class. i've seen all the setups. people let assassins run around tearing **** up instead of focusing them down. they let sorc sit there and free cast. once an assassin burns thru their dcd they're dead, they don't get heal to full.

 

from what i've seen of sorc, they do alot of fluff dmg but most people who play the class are just bad. now if you are playing regs and you see 4 or 5 assassin running around i mean what class isn't problematic when you got 4 or 5 of them running around?

 

but all the time in regs i see assassin who barely break 350k dmg i think the avg is 500k when i know i can do on avg 1.5 mil. if you aren't hitting 1.5k dps they are bad at the class. you're just mad because assassin are quite frankly easy to play and dmg is easy to do.

 

I think High DPS classes should have low survivability, Tank classes should have Low DPS and high Survivability, and Utility classes should be master of none jack of all trade guy that can be efficient in many areas!

 

Right now Tanks classes do more damage then DPS classes and have crazy defensives and hp pools, Caster high DPS classes have a myriad of cc and immunity bubbles free heals .........

 

Whilst the the rest of the non TOP FOTM classes use everything we got but cannot compete because of lack of a tool kit to do so! No matter how hard we try, no matter how well we play Mechanically we are underdogs against the top classes...

 

If Sins are so easy to play why are they rewarded with so much utility and damage potential. Classes that are harder to play with a higher skill curve should end up the better class but they're not!

[Vodrin]

when i see this what it tells me is that people are looking for free kills. they want to stun lock death ez mode and sorc bubble heal to full sorc or assassin that disappear and refocus is mechanics they can't handle because well quite frankly they're stupid.

 

the only thing assassins got in their kit that wasn't there pre3.0 was resilience on shroud, you can make it last longer making it immune to cc, mitigating large chunks of burst. stun lock deaths are harder and you don't want that. how dare assassin finally gain survivablity in the dot spec. just about every class, except mercs have good mechanics that increase their survivablity.

 

If you do not recognize that hatred sins are overtuned right now (and they are the only sin spec that is currently OP), then I do not know what to tell you. Hatred is currently the most powerful spec in the game and blows madness away in damage output and strength of utitilites (due to CC immunity). And you are way off in what you said. Stun immunity on deflection and egress also were not in their "kit" pre-3.0. DoT spread is also new, as is the completely ridiculous life leech/serenity strike. If you think the spec is anywhere near balanced right now, you have a problem.

 

The sad truth is that if you are bringing anything but a hatred sin, vengeance jug, or madness sorc to yolo queue when there are no healers in the queue, you are hurting your team.

[Vodrin]

[quote=Powerhearse;7912899

 

Lot's of really laughably off base comments

 

 

 

Less QQ, more l2P

 

I really look forward to watching many more players like you force speed backpedal in warzones.

[Galothor]

I play Operative

 

And you cannot kill a sorc? Then this really is a L2P issue.

As I pointed out before, any class (except for the mara) can kill a sorc in a 1on1. And especially Juggs, Sins, PTs, and Operatives can do this fairly easily. If you lose with any of these classes to a sorc in a 1v1 setup, then you really have a L2P issue / inferior skill. And yes even Mercs and Snipers can do it, even though this takes more skill and effort.

 

I know what I am saying must be false, since you all are at the max level of skill, you are true PvP gods and goddesses, and the only reason that a sorc could kill you is that those noobs of devs made them completely OP.

 

Here are some suggestions:

1) look beyond the amount of total damage in the end of you WZ!

2) Consider that the reason why you are getting killed more often by sorcs than by other classes is not due to the fact that sorcs are more powerful, but due to the fact that there are disproportionately many sorcs!

3) Play a sorc yourself, and you will change your opinion (unless all you go for is top overall damage at the end of the wz).

 

The only thing truely broken / OP about sorcs is the amount of damage of Force Storm, since it is AoE and has no CD.

 

But there is also something wrong in general concept of dps sorcs, as in both trees vital abilities (Chain Lightning and Death Field) have an AoE component. Which, as mentioned in a previous post, leads to a series of problems.

[Vodrin]

Uhm.....yes they were lmao. Madness was 100% viable in team ranked.

 

They were actually one of the strongest classes in solo and team ranked last season, but sure just because there were gobs of them with high rating does not mean they are viable.

[Csillagkari]

I like this thread!

It's a very good thread.

God bless this thread!

Very constructive, striking, competent and judicious replayes and dabate we have here.

 

Moderator, sticky this thread! It deservs it!

[Saikochoro]

They were viable before 3.0.

No they weren't.[/color

 

*snip*

 

They were definitely viable 3.0 in the same way operatives were. Madness was extremely viable perhaps not the other two specs. Op heals were extremely viable, but not the other two specs. Don't know why you think you need 3 viable specs (some that many consider over the top) when others only have one (or none for that matter). Nobody wants them to be unviable. They want them to be brought down to the level of other classes. Sorcs aren't the only ones that are over tuned. Just because I can beat sorcs on my op doesn't mean they aren't over the top. I said roots can prevent a lot of op survivability. Not saying I can't beat them. I can, but that's just because I'm better at op then they are at sorc. Anyway, we can keep going back and forth. You think I'm wrong; I think you are wrong. Let's leave it at that. Bioware will decide if they want to buff or nerf anything (though they don't always have the best judgement).

[Raansu]

They were actually one of the strongest classes in solo and team ranked last season, but sure just because there were gobs of them with high rating does not mean they are viable.

 

*facepalm*

[Saikochoro]

Perhaps he was being sarcastic.