lets talk Socerer's! Seriously, no hat just realy come on now?

[mmmbuddah]

Actually you do need to provide factual proof (best with unedited videos and recorded streams against competent players in all pvp modes) to the developers and intelligent players because they don't work off of hearsay, screenshots or board stats. Anything short of doing these shows nothing but a whine and cry forum post from certain player who like to cherry pick information because they are subpar at playing their class.

 

You want sages and sorcerers nerfed hard? Then you need to provide unequivocal proof (again unedited videos and streams against competent players in all pvp modes) and documented evidence that sages and sorcerers are op/faceroll easy/unkillable/gods... against every other class in every scenario particularly solo (that means without hiding behind a team to hold you up).

No, all the PvP crew in BW needs to do is play the game as a merc, then as a sorc, and they will see right away that sorc is super ridiculous omg baby jesus EEEEzzzZZZZ mode.

[DomiSotto]

Just got out of a game where their whole team was sorcs with the exception of one marauder. In the three years I played this game I never saw a full team of only one class.

 

I played a match with 6 Shadows and a Scoundrel. Was not much left for me to do but carry nodes with my Hold the Line. To be honest, Assassins are still far scarier for me than the Sorcs.

Edited December 28, 2014 by DomiSotto

[jenlen]

Exactly...or better to say, 'selective' memory?

 

Yes, this is exactly what these crying whiners want. They want the EASY kills to pad their stats in a Warzone. They don't want to fight the heavy hitters. They'd rather take out the easy targets than WORK for their kills. Like flowing water, these QQ artists look for the path of least resistance.

 

Newsflash! Sages/Sorcs are where they are at now because of how much BW screwed them over with 1.2 and did nothing to help them until 2.0 and that wasn't enough. And even then they were still easily killed, yet people WHINED about them then. Now with 3.0 these unskilled DPS artists are coming out of the wood work crying because they now face a class that isn't easy to kill anymore. It took these developers 3 years to finally admit they screwed up. And the QQ artists are unhappy now because they can't have easy victories.

 

 

*** THIS!!!! ****

 

Very well said! I've said much the same myself many times when I see people in here raging and whining about "OP SORCS OMG BIOWARE NERF NAO PLZ PLZ PLZ"

 

The whiners do not want balance. They want easy kills with no possible chance that their prey can fight back or do any damage.

[HaLeX]

Sorcs are absolutely dominating regs. I've been in several matches where 3 or more sorcs put up 2.5-3 million plus dps and over 425k heals. The next highest class for dps was 1.5 million. Yea it was a turtle match, but still, the output is just huge. I suspect they will be top 2 in arenas as well.

[Lattervane]

*** THIS!!!! ****

 

Very well said! I've said much the same myself many times when I see people in here raging and whining about "OP SORCS OMG BIOWARE NERF NAO PLZ PLZ PLZ"

 

The whiners do not want balance. They want easy kills with no possible chance that their prey can fight back or do any damage.

 

 

I wouldn't care if sorcs stayed the same so long gone as they make other classes equal.. Specifically mercs and snipers. Everything is relative and compared to the other classes sorc is vastly superior. So keep sorcs the same and buff the weaker classes or keep the weaker classes the same and nerf sorc.

[Raansu]

I wouldn't care if sorcs stayed the same so long gone as they make other classes equal.. Specifically mercs and snipers. Everything is relative and compared to the other classes sorc is vastly superior. So keep sorcs the same and buff the weaker classes or keep the weaker classes the same and nerf sorc.

 

I'd like to see sorcs lose some of their kiting utility. Right now its just silly.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

I'd like to see sorcs lose some of their kiting utility. Right now its just silly.

 

Yes, but after beeing nerfed pt/juggs and sins, than u can nerf us

[DeLaaNie]

I challenge you (or anyone else making claims that sages/sorcerers are op/easy mode/gods/unkillable) to run a twitch stream and make a video library to show your sage/sorcerer face rolling people in solo, ranked, 4v4 and 1v1 duels as proof of your claims.

 

I would particularly like to see you (or anyone else for that matter) dominating against competent players solo (solo means without a team to protect your squishy and non-bursty backside).

 

You really need to stop, lad. Maybe you haven't realized this, but PvP is filled with nothing but animals and cowards. These people do nothing but reiterate the same nonsense being spewed back and forth on the forum just to make themselves seem cool. Haven't you noticed by now they have a Band-Aid for every wound?

 

Why is it that they claim a Sorcerer is so supreme yet they cannot show a video of themselves displaying such? Why is it they cannot show a screencap of a Sorcerer putting out 1.6 million damage and around 700,000 in heals? Oh that's right, the scoreboard after a fight doesn't mean anything (yet it is all they talk about).

 

I often find it funny that they make up and exaggerate all of these claims about certain classes and yet they are the first ones to hop on said class because they are pathetic and cannot stick to one thing. Not only that, they think that sitting on a forum and making calculations means they know how to play, yet I've never seen a single video posted here showing how good they are and how easy it is to kill such and such.

 

These are also the same kind of people who think they are hot **** when they have a team backing them up, and quite simply, you are wasting your time with these, how shall I put this, undesirables.

[Dragonexadon]

*** THIS!!!! ****

 

Very well said! I've said much the same myself many times when I see people in here raging and whining about "OP SORCS OMG BIOWARE NERF NAO PLZ PLZ PLZ"

 

The whiners do not want balance. They want easy kills with no possible chance that their prey can fight back or do any damage.

 

No, people want balance. People that want easy kills are all rolling a sorc/sage now with several in my guild doing just that for the easy faceroll.

One of our best sents decided to change a few days ago and, with no pvp gear, tops the damage charts every warzone. It is a common trend to roll to the new class that is over powered and it is clear to see it going on.

 

To say that "whiners don't really want balance!" is just not true. We could all easily roll a sage/sorc (like the majority are) but rather see a game that is populated with more then just sorc fest in 8v8s.

[Raansu]

No, people want balance. People that want easy kills are all rolling a sorc/sage now with several in my guild doing just that for the easy faceroll.

One of our best sents decided to change a few days ago and, with no pvp gear, tops the damage charts every warzone. It is a common trend to roll to the new class that is over powered and it is clear to see it going on.

 

To say that "whiners don't really want balance!" is just not true. We could all easily roll a sage/sorc (like the majority are) but rather see a game that is populated with more then just sorc fest in 8v8s.

 

I don't necessarily think sorcs are OP at all. The only thing I feel is too strong is their ability to kite. It's just too easy.

[Master-Nala]

I'd like to see sorcs lose some of their kiting utility. Right now its just silly.

 

Not until you get rid of the insane amount of slows, roots & pulls.

 

And PTs.

[AdamLKvist]

I don't necessarily think sorcs are OP at all. The only thing I feel is too strong is their ability to kite. It's just too easy.

 

Its only easy vs noobs. All you need to do is CC the first speed - by doing so you'll win the encounter or force a barrier/stun/grenade (leaving you with the upper hand as your one CD forced two ((And no, a sage can not face-tank you and win if you're a competent DPS not playing an atm underbalanced spec)) ). Leaping and then queueing awe/push/stasis all works even though I'd activate speed the moment you start your leap. This is because the put-in-place range buff that occurs on abilities already in queue (such as stasis hitting well outside of channel range of 10m for example).

 

Leap someone, as you see them speed line up a CC in your ability queue and you'll hit. Kiting in this game, for ranged, is essentially only possible on gunslingers (this is not a comment regarding their current state in PvP) since they're the only ones that can counterplay without being immediately countered themselves (entrench, roll --> leap immunity)

 

Playing a mage in WoW and playing a sage in tor is, HE HE, lightyears apart. Creating distance in wow is distance, creating "distance" in tor is simply moving two chess pieces, yourself and your (read: competent) enemy a distance on the map.

Edited December 28, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Dragonexadon]

I don't necessarily think sorcs are OP at all. The only thing I feel is too strong is their ability to kite. It's just too easy.

 

agreed

[Dragonexadon]

Its only easy vs noobs. All you need to do is CC the first speed - by doing so you'll win the encounter or force a barrier/stun/grenade (leaving you with the upper hand as your one CD forced two). Leaping and then queueing awe/push/stasis all works even though I'd activate speed the moment you start your leap. This is because the put-in-place range buff that occurs on abilities already in queue (such as stasis hitting well outside of channel range of 10m for example).

 

Leap someone, as you see them speed line up a CC in your ability queue and you'll hit. Kiting in this game, for ranged, is essentially only possible on gunslingers (this is not a comment regarding their current state in PvP) since they're the only ones that can counterplay without being immediately countered themselves (entrench, roll --> leap immunity)

 

Playing a mage in WoW and playing a sage in tor is, HE HE, lightyears apart. Creating distance in wow is distance, creating "distance" in tor is simply moving two chess pieces, yourself and your (read: competent) enemy a distance on the map.

 

I also played a mage in WoW. All these samples you provided are a 1v1 example. We are not talking 1v1 or even 4v4. We are talking about an 8v8 arena where, while you are focusing that one sorc, 3 other are spamming lighting in your location.

 

It has nothing to do with "newbs" , "l2p" , interrupts ect. It has to do with balance of abilities in an 8v8 environment. . Which is very hard to balance for sure.

[AdamLKvist]

I also played a mage in WoW. All these samples you provided are a 1v1 example. We are not talking 1v1 or even 4v4. We are talking about an 8v8 arena where, while you are focusing that one sorc, 3 other are spamming lighting in your location.

 

It has nothing to do with "newbs" , "l2p" , interrupts ect. It has to do with balance of abilities in an 8v8 environment. . Which is very hard to balance for sure.

 

No we're not talking about a 1v4 as per the scenario that you're trying to sell in, because by that logic you have three people sitting on the other sorcs and/or helping you. Additionally I consider a 1v1 scenario an excellent setting to judge a class' ability to kite - when you add other elements you're creating a complex and complicated situation where you can't simply state that it all comes down to kiting...

 

I'm fully aware that player skill is on a spectrum and that entering a normal warzone might not grant you the best teammates, but let us state fact - you can not balance around incompetence.

Edited December 28, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Dragonexadon]

No we're not talking about a 1v4 as per the scenario as you're trying to sell in, because by that logic you have three people sitting on the other sorcs and/or helping you. Additionally I consider a 1v1 scenario an excellent setting to judge a class' ability to kite - when you add other elements you're creating a complex and complicated situation where you can't simply state that it all comes down to kiting...

 

I'm fully aware that player skill is on a spectrum and that entering a normal warzone might not grant you the best teammates, but let us state fact - you can not balance around incompetence.

 

 

There is much more forgiveness for a bad sage rather than other classes which is what they should balance it on. In your scnario it is balance because everyone will focus a sage/sorc 1v1 and interrupt as needed. Even if you could somehow coordinate this in an 8v8 you are then leaving out things such as objectives, healers, ect.

 

the idea that the game should be balanced on a 1v1 scnario does not seem right. Or the idea that EVERYONE needs to drop everything because there is a group of said class.

[AdamLKvist]

There is much more forgiveness for a bad sage rather than other classes which is what they should balance it on. In your scnario it is balance because everyone will focus a sage/sorc 1v1 and interrupt as needed. Even if you could somehow coordinate this in an 8v8 you are then leaving out things such as objectives, healers, ect.

 

the idea that the game should be balanced on a 1v1 scnario does not seem right. Or the idea that EVERYONE needs to drop everything because there is a group of said class.

 

That is not at all what I said as you can see if you read the posts above. What I said was that judging a class' ability to kite is best done in a 1v1 setting as that is where you can fairly measure where each reaction and counter-action leaves the fight. Stalemate? Victor?

 

Let us also remember that we're talking about a sage/sorc's ability to kite here, not whether or not you should focus them (thats how you come across in this last post and thats irrelevant). Unless, of course, you're saying that since they can now, unlike before, kite there's no point going after one. Which ends us up at the point where you have been incredibly spoiled by this game since sage/sorc have been inferior in every way when it comes to survivability for the last ~2 years. Again, lets hope this isn't what you meant.

Edited December 28, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Dragonexadon]

That is not at all what I said as you can see if you read the posts above. What I said was that judging a class' ability to kite is best done in a 1v1 setting as that is where you can fairly measure what each reaction and counter-action leaves the fight. Stalemate? Victor?

 

Let us also remember that we're talking about a sage/sorc's ability to kite here, not whether or not you should focus them (thats how you come across in this last post and thats irrelevant). Unless, of course, you're saying that since they can now, unlike before, kite there's no point going after one. Which ends us up at the point where you have been incredibly spoiled by this game since sage/sorc have been inferior in every way when it comes to survivability for the last ~2 years. Again, lets hope this isn't what you meant.

 

Why would that be what I meant for all? Past inferiority does not justify present balance conditions either way. My problem is there current over all state in 8v8 warzones period. 1v1 is never a good measure of anything PVP related. All PVP that matters has other factors (objectives, teammates/group comp).. The times you simply 1v1 someone is few and far between.

 

My point is simple. If you wish to ignore everything I said and simply quote me here I would be fine. My point : the current state of sorc/sage is not balanced in an 8v8 environment. They are much easier to kite and deal massive damage with little effort. Several players , who are now aware of this fact, are now rolling sage/sorcs causing an influx of them over any other class.

 

Personally I have had 2 guildies switch there mains to sages and have seen huge results. These are players who never mained sages in PVP. When they get online I will grab some screen shots from them.

 

One of my guildies , who just switched to a sage, agreed to provide me with screen shots of how easily he is dominating the field. Since previous comments suggest that those on my side cant provide proof.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Dragonexadon

[Tellenn]

Sorcs are absolutely dominating regs. I've been in several matches where 3 or more sorcs put up 2.5-3 million plus dps and over 425k heals. The next highest class for dps was 1.5 million. Yea it was a turtle match, but still, the output is just huge. I suspect they will be top 2 in arenas as well.

 

Doesnt understand what dps stands for

[Saikochoro]

I challenge you (or anyone else making claims that sorcerers are op) to run a twitch stream and show your sorcerer face rolling people in solo, ranked and 4v4 as proof of your claims. Feel free to run a sage stream as well.

 

I would particularly like to see you dominating players (without a team to back your squishy and non-bursty butt) when you face off solo against classes that are smacking you around with 10k-15k bursts.

 

I felt you deserved a reply. Unfortunately I will not be setting up a twitch account or YouTube account. I don't care to record my matches nor will I. Take it as you will. In the past I have seen demands for screen shots and video proof. The times when "proof" was actually given it was picked apart and excuses were made to discard the proof. For example, a couple days ago in the operative forums someone posted screenshots "proving" that concealment ops are fine DPS. Many operatives do not feel they are, but he stated he can pull 2k DPS. They demanded proof. He posted it. The next post came up with excuses as to why that proof doesn't count. You see what I'm getting at? NOTHING I post will convince you of my opinion. And that's totally cool. You are entitled to think I'm a whining scrub that sucks at the game. I'm entitled to think you are blindly devoted to your class. The food for some healthy argument...*cough*...I mean discussion. Let's agree to disagree.

[Galothor]

It's always the same. They see the big numbers at the end of 15min Voidstar zerg and then immediately assume the class with the highest overall damage dealt must be OP - unless they play that very same class, then the guy doing better than themselves is obviously cheating (but that's a different story).

 

What those numbers fail to tell and most people don't ask is how those were accrued. Was it single target dps or Aoe dps? Was it burst or was it DoT? Knowing how those big numbers are accrued is immensely important when judging whether a classes damage really is OP or not.

 

After having seen those big numbers, and not asking how they came to be, people then tend to think anything about this class got to be OP - especially after losing a 1v1 against that class. Afterall if you lose to this class, that class has to be overpowered, because it cannot be that your skill is just too bad for you to beat that class.

 

To pick up what Ancestry said, let me put it this way: The only class that can complain about the Sorc's / Sage's ability to kite is the Marauder. But then again the Marauder's can complain about any classes kiting abilities! For the other classes there is really no reason to complain about the Sorc / Sage kite abilities, especially not as Jugg, Sin, PT, or Oper. If you play with one of those classes against a sorc / sage and you lose then it is purely a skill issue but not a balance issue on your side.

[Dragonexadon]

I: The only class that can complain .

 

Everyone can debate and have an opinion. One does not need to be a certain class. These claims hold more truth when they also come from those that switched to sorc/sage and have experienced , first hand, how amazing they are currently.

 

Either way, yes we can have our opinions.

[Tellenn]

You are entitled to think I'm a whining scrub that sucks at the game. I'm entitled to think you are blindly devoted to your class. The food for some healthy argument...*cough*...I mean discussion. Let's agree to disagree.

 

While sorcs are abit op. So are sins, juggs and pt. You can still be a whiny scrub.

[Saikochoro]

While sorcs are abit op. So are sins, juggs and pt. You can still be a whiny scrub.

 

Thank you . I'm inclined to agree with what you said there.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Saikochoro

[Dragonexadon]

http://i.imgur.com/jqMaO72.jpg

First game was a void star, did not screen cap it as someone mentioned void stars seem not to count for their long running average times.

 

This was a hut ball. Majority on our team was a sage. As mentioned before this is what I encounter often as people are aware of how good they are now.