Higher DPS: Concealment or Lethality?

[quikscope]

Without add ons or anything that can record dps, I'm not sure what damage is better in PVE.

 

The obvious is that lethality does more dps for longer fights and concealment the shorter due to burst. But I also find lethality requires much more energy and a harder time keeping up tactical advantage? Then again Concealment is limited with damage if you lose out on HS in your rotation.

 

I've played both now and lean towards concealment being higher damage. Websites like darth hater and sithwarrior.com also don't have anything on this yet and theory crafting is lacking in this department.

 

Anyone care to share opinions? I'd like to know what you think

[Abye]

The main problem of lethality is getting TA, energy is less of an issue, IMHO lethal purpose gives a surprising amount of energy once your DoTs are ticking.

[Verg]

After finally getting around to really getting my hands on lethality. i've come to the conclusion that is much the same as yours; Concel for burst, leth for sustained. But tbh, that seems pretty obvious from the mechanics.

 

When it comes to raiding, i intend to play concel for the early game, not only because it is a spec that i'm extreamly comfortable, but because I think it requires less gear to be effective. While crit/surge/power etc, will increase DPS, it won't increase anything else. With leth, as gear scales up, so will energy regen through more crits. I have a feeling (nothing truely concrete to prove this though) that leth will end up being the better raiding spec past a certain crit %.

 

Also as pointed out, the biggest limiter to a leth build is TA procs. Well, running a standard 3/7/31 build, the only way your getting TA's is via shiv in combat (plus the two HS's-one at the start, another with vanish). To combat this, i've been testing out the 18/0/23 build thats been floating around. The question becomes at this point: do the added culls (and there are a whoooole lot of them) make up for the lack of weakening blast and the 15% to dots sub 30%? I honestly don't know, nor do I believe i have crit to truely pull ANY leth build off (i'm @ 32% flat crit, 44% for periodics).

[quikscope]

hmm interesting, if thats the case I wonder how much crit you actually need. Atm I am at a base crit level of 36% + talents on top, and my surge rating is close to 70%. But after using shiv, stim pack, corrosive dart, corrosive grenade, shiv, cull....My energy level has fallen low making its regeneration slow already.

 

Atleast with Concealment we have a 0 Energy backstab, during that time, with stimpack energy can regen significantly quicker. Its interesting to see in time whats better with gear, sadly my last respec was 48k and I am sure it doubles each time

[draided]

Right now with just starting off gearing up I think concealment is the best. But I think leathality will out shine conc in later gear levels. Once crit valus get higher and higher leathality will get better an better. Don't get me wrong I still think concealment will be competitive I just think leathality scaling will get better and better

[Verg]

hmm interesting, if thats the case I wonder how much crit you actually need. Atm I am at a base crit level of 36% + talents on top, and my surge rating is close to 70%. But after using shiv, stim pack, corrosive dart, corrosive grenade, shiv, cull....My energy level has fallen low making its regeneration slow already.

 

Atleast with Concealment we have a 0 Energy backstab, during that time, with stimpack energy can regen significantly quicker. Its interesting to see in time whats better with gear, sadly my last respec was 48k and I am sure it doubles each time

 

I know what your saying 'bout the energy, and Cull definitely just wrecks an energy bar (using both TA proc's is 38 energy? Yikes, thats enough to almost drop you down to three pips of regen from cap). I'm guessing around ~40% flat crit will be the breakpoint, but no hard maths have been done yet.

 

What i'm thinking is this: Do a full rotation (both dots+weak blast+shiv) = 75 energy spent, not counting any regen gained. So sitting @ 25 energy; adren probe back up to 75 energy, cull x2 back down 38. That's just technicly one rotation (i dont use backstab as leth though some might), so, again not counting nat regen OR stim boost, you need to be able to make up AT LEAST 60 energy or so returned from dot crits to maintain even the most basic of rotations. Which would mean 30 crits between two dots spread out over 21 seconds. Which, since each dot ticks every 3 seconds, is impossible: (21/3)*2=14 total ticks, period).

 

Once i'm done with all my christmas stuff i'll actually sit down with the numbers and get some more solid theorycrafting (theoryTOR'ing?) done.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Verg

[crucilus]

The main problem of lethality is getting TA, energy is less of an issue, IMHO lethal purpose gives a surprising amount of energy once your DoTs are ticking.

QFT i re-specced lethality for pvp and although corrosive grenade and corrosive dart get some nice damage buffs from lethality concelment still out dps's you burst wise but as pepole have said energy and damage become less of a problem , How ever TA is still a ***** having to use shiv for cull but i found that if you start of stealthed then use this

 

Backstab- shiv- Corrosive grenade - Cull most enemys are on half health by that point then add fragment nade+ carbine burst usually works well for me

[raelimar]

A couple points in Incisive Action will let you proc TA on demand, FYI. It's kind of an oddball build, and very energy consuming, but I've seen Lethality/Medic hybrids that are pretty successful. That's more of a PvP thing though, I wouldn't recommend it for PvE. Edited December 26, 2011 by raelimar

[quikscope]

I just respecced to lethality for raiding now, and my dps is considerably better then concealment. I'm rolling out with 36% crit rating and 65% multiplier and energy preservation seems to be exceptionally easy. Just using 1 stim pack nearly regens the majority of my bar and rarely I use adrenaline probe. Lethality for me is definitely the better build when you have the right stats for it. As for accurate figures I can't say due to the lack of combat log, but sustainability of dps is incredible. Using a lethality build currently in HC EV.

[Norr]

For raids leth is better imo. Better dps over longer fights, better energy efficiency.

 

For levelling the dots are nigh worthless, and for PvP conc burst owns all.

[quikscope]

concealment is over rated, sure i've hidden strike people for 4.8k with a acid blade ticking for almost another 1.5k dmg in total but you depend too much on a opener, and if someone is prepared then its fair game. I've attempted fully relic openers on powertechs or marauders who have turned around and destroyed me with their damage too.

 

imo lethality is better in pve and pvp. Concealment is surprisingly great in the beginning, but once you fight champions and people who know how to counter you, the opness is gone. Not to mention the increasing levels of expertise.

[NateHale]

concealment is over rated, sure i've hidden strike people for 4.8k with a acid blade ticking for almost another 1.5k dmg in total but you depend too much on a opener, and if someone is prepared then its fair game. I've attempted fully relic openers on powertechs or marauders who have turned around and destroyed me with their damage too.

 

imo lethality is better in pve and pvp. Concealment is surprisingly great in the beginning, but once you fight champions and people who know how to counter you, the opness is gone. Not to mention the increasing levels of expertise.

 

Seconded. While leveling, yes, it was fun to play with Concealment and stab fools. But when it comes down to brass tacks in both pvp and pve I agree with quikscope.