CelCawdro Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) My only complaint about the discipline system is that the utility points we can choose are incredibly boring and metagamey. Some are for PvP, some are for PvE, some are for solo, some are for group, etc. They were made mechanically with absolutely no heart behind them. They add nothing, stylistically or aesthetically, to the game. If they're going to copy WoW's system (which was a good move), at the very least, copy the best aspect of it - the ability to further distinguish your character mechanically and aesthetically. For example, the ability for Hunters to forego their pets is absolutely game-changing. Adding another elemental for Shamans allows you to use them on a rotation rather than on a cooldown. Giving Death Knights a dragon breath that can be prolonged nearly indefinitely if you time it correctly? All of these drastically change the your playstyle, but the passives we've been given do nothing to actually change your playstyle. They simply compliment it. They aren't even noticeable. They simply make what you were doing more effective rather than making you alter your playstyle to be more effective. No matter what I choose, I'll be playing my character the same way. They're simply minor utility, which might be all they were intended to be, but they could be so much more. Otherwise, I do love the system. The removal of the illusion of choice really did serve to differentiate characters much more drastically and will allow them to branch even further in the differentiation in the future. However, what serves as WoW's greatest strength for this system is the most boring part of SW:TOR's. There is absolutely no "wow factor." Number tweaking might be appealing to a certain subset of players, and I do enjoy it in small doses, but it does absolutely nothing for me when that's all there is to it. I can see why some people are upset about the change. While it is, on the whole, positive for the game, most of that is "under the hood." I'm willing to bet a lot of people would be a lot less upset if these points actually served to differentiate us from each other more and change up playstyles. Edited December 10, 2014 by CelCawdro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Maybe this is a reasonable gripe, but keep in mind they were trying to transition to a more open-ended system without completely wrecking the roles and playstyles people were used to. Most of the utilities are boring because the talents they were based on were boring. The only thing that changed is now both ACs can use the same boring talents. The plan apparently is to continue adding new tiers of utilities as the winding road of the discipline extends, so maybe we'll see some "game changers" in the next iteration, when they have more time to think about how far they can go with new talents, rather than being consumed with just getting a new system working. Edited December 10, 2014 by Heezdedjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This is just the start. Remember that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Maybe this is a reasonable gripe, but keep in mind they were trying to transition to a more open-ended system without completely wrecking the roles and playstyles people were used to. Most of the utilities are boring because the talents they were based on were boring. The only thing that changed is now both ACs can use the same boring talents. The plan apparently is to continue adding new tiers of utilities as the winding road of the discipline extends, so maybe we'll see some "game changers" in the next iteration, when they have more time to think about how far they can go with new talents, rather than being consumed with just getting a new system working. Well, they were working from the WoW template, just as they did with the original system. They actively chose to go the boring route. As it is, it remains a vestige of the old system - if you want to PvP, you choose the PvP points, if you want to raid, choose the raid points, etc. No real choice. No real customization. It's simply another leftover illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My only complaint about the discipline system is that the utility points we can choose are incredibly boring and metagamey. Some are for PvP, some are for PvE, some are for solo, some are for group, etc. They were made mechanically with absolutely no heart behind them. They add nothing, stylistically or aesthetically, to the game. If they're going to copy WoW's system (which was a good move), at the very least, copy the best aspect of it - the ability to further distinguish your character mechanically and aesthetically. For example, the ability for Hunters to forego their pets is absolutely game-changing. Adding another elemental for Shamans allows you to use them on a rotation rather than on a cooldown. Giving Death Knights a dragon breath that can be prolonged nearly indefinitely if you time it correctly? All of these drastically change the your playstyle, but the passives we've been given do nothing to actually change your playstyle. They simply compliment it. They aren't even noticeable. They simply make what you were doing more effective rather than making you alter your playstyle to be more effective. No matter what I choose, I'll be playing my character the same way. They're simply minor utility, which might be all they were intended to be, but they could be so much more. Otherwise, I do love the system. The removal of the illusion of choice really did serve to differentiate characters much more drastically and will allow them to branch even further in the differentiation in the future. However, what serves as WoW's greatest strength for this system is the most boring part of SW:TOR's. There is absolutely no "wow factor." Number tweaking might be appealing to a certain subset of players, and I do enjoy it in small doses, but it does absolutely nothing for me when that's all there is to it. I can see why some people are upset about the change. While it is, on the whole, positive for the game, most of that is "under the hood." I'm willing to bet a lot of people would be a lot less upset if these points actually served to differentiate us from each other more and change up playstyles. Please enlighten us to what ground breaking, non-game breaking change you would like to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well, they were working from the WoW template, just as they did with the original system. They actively chose to go the boring route. As it is, it remains a vestige of the old system - if you want to PvP, you choose the PvP points, if you want to raid, choose the raid points, etc. No real choice. No real customization. It's simply another leftover illusion. NO.... they are simply applying an emerging standard in modern MMOs. It's not the WoW system... it is simply similar.. and yet.. quite different. All MMOs do things that are similar.. because they are a genre and roughly speaking they (and their players) evolve along similar lines over time. And.. I'm sure we have only seen the beginning of the game evolving under the new discipline approach. If they are so boring... then don't train any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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