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Suggestion, bring back dread master (or below) 4-set bonus


xZarquon

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Posted the following in the suggestion box. Do people agree or disagree with my assessment?

 

Using the 4-set bonus from 180-186 gear, Virulence sniper is in a really good place.

 

Using either the pre-3.0 "2-cull" rotation of:

 

cull > Takedown > corrosive dart > corrosive grenade > weakening blast >

cull > Takedown > Lethal Shot > Series of Shots >

(repeat)

 

or the new "3-cull" rotation which actually ends up in 6 cull windows due to Series of shots and weakening blast being used every other cull:

 

Cull -> Takedown -> SoS -> CD ->

Cull -> Takedown -> Weakening Blast -> Filler -> CG ->

Cull -> Takedown -> SoS -> Filler ->

 

Cull -> Takedown -> Weakening Blast -> Filler -> CD ->

Cull -> Takedown -> SoS -> CG ->

Cull -> Takedown -> Weakening Blast -> Filler x2 ->

 

(Repeat)

 

Filler = Covered Escape, Lethal Shot, Calculated Pursuit Overload Shot or Rifle Shot depending on energy.

 

In both cases, the rotations are sustainable, sometimes using energy cooldowns or a free attack for energy management.

 

However, without the Dread Maser (or below) set bonus, the energy management of both rotations essentially removes the ability to cast lethal shot at all as the energy drain is unsustainable (i think you can afford it to use it once every 12 culls even including energy cooldowns). in the "2-cull" rotation, even using the slot allocated to lethal shot yields a -5 energy for the rotation over pre-3.0 and in the "3-cull" rotation of the 5 fillers available every 6 culls, 3 need to be used for a free energy skill just to match pre-3.0 levels and if either of the remainder are used for lethal shot, it's -10 energy compared to not using lethal shot.

 

Ultimately, this makes the new and improved skill that virulence gets little more than a waste of space on the quickbar.

 

As for my suggestion, either include the -5 energy cost into the spec (for example into lethal takedown, even if it REQUIRES the proc to get the reduced energy cost) or add it back into one of the setbonuses as all 3 specs could use it, though none require it as much as virulence.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

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I must admit this is a little too much of a wall of text for me this morning, so I TLDR'd a little, but from what I gathered I agree completely. I tested it out myself and for DF/Lethality to be competitive as a dps spec you need the old 4piece. With it there are no energy problems and you can basically keep a very high APM without ever popping Cool Head. At the most I use Illegal Mods to adjust energy if I see me dipping a little lower than usual, and it's just a great quality of life experience for the DF spec in operations. So until the old set bounus either makes it into the DF/Lethality tree or the old set bonus is put into the new one I'm not going to replace the old armorings.
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The old four piece really isn't necessary. At all. You need it if you try to do the 2 cull rotation while using every Takedown proc, but honestly if you're using that rotation you are simply doing it wrong.

 

In the 3 cull rotation, you have plenty of energy to use every Takedown while also filling with a fair bit of Lethal Shot. You do need free fillers often, but Lethal Shot gets used a very satisfying number of times and the dps reflects these results.

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I see what you're saying here, and if that turns out to be a better way of doing it in 3.0 then sure. However, I did not see a single one of those parses on the leaderboards and even the worldwide highest parse for slingers was a 2 ws/cull rotation pre-3.0.

 

I would love to see a video or parse of this in action though.

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I see what you're saying here, and if that turns out to be a better way of doing it in 3.0 then sure. However, I did not see a single one of those parses on the leaderboards and even the worldwide highest parse for slingers was a 2 ws/cull rotation pre-3.0.

 

I would love to see a video or parse of this in action though.

 

After my sent, my Sniper is the next class i'm levelling, so if KBN or someone hasn't uploaded a video by then I'll do one for you (sents at 58).

 

Either way, pre 3.0 it was technically possible, but also far inferior because of a number of things like:

 

  • Weakening Blast having Stacks and being a % boost (as opposed to extra damage when you cause a poison effect)
  • DoTs lasting 21 seconds (as opposed to 24)
  • Lingering Toxins taking priority for eating Weakening Blast stacks, and being terrible damage-wise (as opposed to only ticking when Cull deals damage, and doing full damage when this happens)
  • Other slingers and operatives eating your stacks of Weakening Blast (as opposed to not having to deal with stacks)
  • Snipe being 20 energy and pathetic damage (as opposed to great damage and 15 energy cost, some of which is a poison which can recharge energy and deal MOAR weakening blast damage!)

 

With all these issues solved, 3.0 Virulence is far more capable of doing a 3-cull rotation. As will be displayed when either I or KBN get our snipers to 60 to show a vid of it (or someone else who picked up the 3-cull rotation effortlessly)

Edited by TACeMossie
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After my sent, my Sniper is the next class i'm levelling, so if KBN or someone hasn't uploaded a video by then I'll do one for you (sents at 58).

 

Either way, pre 3.0 it was technically possible, but also far inferior because of a number of things like:

 

  • Weakening Blast having Stacks and being a % boost (as opposed to extra damage when you cause a poison effect)
  • DoTs lasting 21 seconds (as opposed to 24)
  • Lingering Toxins taking priority for eating Weakening Blast stacks, and being terrible damage-wise (as opposed to only ticking when Cull deals damage, and doing full damage when this happens)
  • Other slingers and operatives eating your stacks of Weakening Blast (as opposed to not having to deal with stacks)
  • Snipe being 20 energy and pathetic damage (as opposed to great damage and 15 energy cost, some of which is a poison which can recharge energy and deal MOAR weakening blast damage!)

 

With all these issues solved, 3.0 Virulence is far more capable of doing a 3-cull rotation. As will be displayed when either I or KBN get our snipers to 60 to show a vid of it (or someone else who picked up the 3-cull rotation effortlessly)

 

Great points. If a 3 cull rotation is able to sustain ws/cull + quickdraw/takedown without problems I'm all for it. I haven't really tried it but I'll hack away at the dummy once I'm off work today. At the moment I am in mostly storymode gear though, and I think it's too soon to tell what is best still. With more hardmode gear and some proper optimization I think it will be much easier to tell which way is the best for the class. At the moment I think we have to dump too much into accuracy to be optimized with crit/surge/alacrity.

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Have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2DQlwmOIw

 

So, this video is instructive both because it shows the structure of the rotation and because it shows what happens when you make mistakes! This was not a perfect parse, just a video that I dashed off quickly for a guildy.

 

  • Early on, watch in awe as I stand still for about a GCD and a half mashing my Weakening Blast button when I was trying to hit Overload Shot
  • Enjoy my failure to time my energy burnout so as to use Adrenaline Probe on cooldown
  • Watch me completely screw up my energy with a single out-of-place Lethal Shot towards the end of the parse

 

Yeah… This particular parse was almost 250 DPS lower than the parse I did immediately prior to it, but it was the one I recorded so…meh. It gives you the idea anyway.

 

I don't think my sniper was augmented at all when I did this parse. FR and SA relics. I don't think I had any alacrity. 777 accuracy. I believe I had some crit, but not much (maybe 200?).

 

Unlike Lethality, where there's just a bit more energy than there should be, Virulence has a fair amount of free filler time even in the 3 cull rotation. So, I think running main stat augments in addition to maybe one crit piece would put the energy in exactly the right spot, where you would have enough energy to Lethal Shot frequently, but not enough to completely eliminate Overload Shot (meaning that you have the flexibility to burn yourself out going into Adrenaline Probe). I would also probably run one alacrity piece in 192s.

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I see what you're saying here, and if that turns out to be a better way of doing it in 3.0 then sure. However, I did not see a single one of those parses on the leaderboards and even the worldwide highest parse for slingers was a 2 ws/cull rotation pre-3.0.

 

I would love to see a video or parse of this in action though.

 

Are there new leaderboards up for 3.0?

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Have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2DQlwmOIw

 

So, this video is instructive both because it shows the structure of the rotation and because it shows what happens when you make mistakes! This was not a perfect parse, just a video that I dashed off quickly for a guildy.

 

  • Early on, watch in awe as I stand still for about a GCD and a half mashing my Weakening Blast button when I was trying to hit Overload Shot
  • Enjoy my failure to time my energy burnout so as to use Adrenaline Probe on cooldown
  • Watch me completely screw up my energy with a single out-of-place Lethal Shot towards the end of the parse

 

Yeah… This particular parse was almost 250 DPS lower than the parse I did immediately prior to it, but it was the one I recorded so…meh. It gives you the idea anyway.

 

I don't think my sniper was augmented at all when I did this parse. FR and SA relics. I don't think I had any alacrity. 777 accuracy. I believe I had some crit, but not much (maybe 200?).

 

Unlike Lethality, where there's just a bit more energy than there should be, Virulence has a fair amount of free filler time even in the 3 cull rotation. So, I think running main stat augments in addition to maybe one crit piece would put the energy in exactly the right spot, where you would have enough energy to Lethal Shot frequently, but not enough to completely eliminate Overload Shot (meaning that you have the flexibility to burn yourself out going into Adrenaline Probe). I would also probably run one alacrity piece in 192s.

 

Thanks for the post! I'm curious though, what is your dps with this rotation compared to old 4 piece and a 2 cull keyboardmasher? Have you tried new/old rotation with both old and new set bonus to see the difference? First impression by me it seems like a lot of work, and I'm curious as to what/how much the gain is compared to the old easy mode. Also in an operation setting with multiple targets this does not seem ideal.

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Thanks for the post! I'm curious though, what is your dps with this rotation compared to old 4 piece and a 2 cull keyboardmasher? Have you tried new/old rotation with both old and new set bonus to see the difference? First impression by me it seems like a lot of work, and I'm curious as to what/how much the gain is compared to the old easy mode. Also in an operation setting with multiple targets this does not seem ideal.

 

I didn't compare with the old set bonus. Given the loss of cunning and the loss of the other set bonus benefits (second auto-crit cull!), I have no doubt that the new set bonus is numerically superior given a sustainable energy burn, which the three cull rotation provides.

 

I did compare with the 2 cull rotation though. Obviously, you can't sustain 2 cull if you're using the new set bonuses, but I sustained as much as I could and popped a free filler instead of Takedown very rarely. Even pushing as hard as I could, I never got the 2 cull to within less than 150 DPS of 3 cull in full 192s. 3 cull is just manifestly superior than 2 cull for sustained DPS with the new set bonuses.

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I didn't compare with the old set bonus. Given the loss of cunning and the loss of the other set bonus benefits (second auto-crit cull!), I have no doubt that the new set bonus is numerically superior given a sustainable energy burn, which the three cull rotation provides.

 

I did compare with the 2 cull rotation though. Obviously, you can't sustain 2 cull if you're using the new set bonuses, but I sustained as much as I could and popped a free filler instead of Takedown very rarely. Even pushing as hard as I could, I never got the 2 cull to within less than 150 DPS of 3 cull in full 192s. 3 cull is just manifestly superior than 2 cull for sustained DPS with the new set bonuses.

 

I agree that the only rotation possible with the new set bonus is a 3 cull one. I tested it some today, and it seems you want around 500 crit on your slinger/sniper for the energy to be somewhat manageable. On the occasional bad crit parses you'll notice the energy going down very fast though and tbh it sucks then. :p I managed around 4050 with the new set bonuses on a 3 ws/cull rotation, and then I swapped back to the old set bonuses and my highest was 4250, so even though the armoring gives you 11 more mainstat, that is only a 33 mainstat gain (for me at least since I only need to swap 3 armorings for the full 6 piece set bonus), at this stat level I'm not sure it's worth it. The 2 autocrit ws/cull are very nice though I must admit, and with a bit of alacrity it's up every 52 seconds. For sharpshooter the new set bonuses are better for sure. You still got to watch the energy a bit and I picked the free quickshots in case of those tight situations where you want a free global without using flurry of bolts.

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