Jump to content

PvP - Concealment or Lethality


caehleb

Recommended Posts

Lethality is pretty sad for PVP right now. Big time survival issues and the dots aren't hurting anyone. You can do decent damage if you're left alone, but you're squishy as fack and everyone in the WZ knows it.

 

You're better off with concealment just because it has better burst and better defensive talents. It has a really high skill cap to make it work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lethality is not the best spec but totally viable if played right, normally heal but the i played with both dps specs over the weekend and i pulled as much as 2100 dps but averaged around 1500-1800dps, we unfortunately don;t have the defensive CD's to always be on the front lines so I generally hang back a bit and pick off any of the mDPS hitting our ranged dps and healers, concealment is great for it with the amount of roots, and lethality is decent as well, both specs lost the burst they had in pre 3.0, culls and CG seem really underpowered Edited by dego-harmonium
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually do not understand u guys. You say: Concealment has better survivability than Lethality, but in my opinion instant KI after roll is better than just resist. With two KPs on you it really helps to survive. Stim boost has only 1.5 min CD in Lethality, so it's another "+". And u forgot the most important thing - 30% reduction against dots. It's huge in current meta. Again, i do not understand why Concealment is better in terms of survivability. Besides, you can support your team with heals. About 1k hps is not impossible.

The biggest problem with Lethality is that u need 3-4 GCDs to start doing damage. It's too long in pvp. If they wanted to make CA our main attack, they should make TB apply both our dots on target or increase surge for CA. Something like that.

I see very few Lethality ops besides me. But remember, when you've done well, it's not cause your spec op (hello shadows), it's cause you played well.

 

PS

Sorry for bad englis. I hope, it's clear, what i wanted to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah that is one of the things I like about lethality, its more fun winning duels and out dps'ing folks in unconventional pvp role, sometimes you can even tell that alot of folks have no idea how to fight a leth operative because there are so few around :p Edited by dego-harmonium
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually do not understand u guys. You say: Concealment has better survivability than Lethality, but in my opinion instant KI after roll is better than just resist. With two KPs on you it really helps to survive. Stim boost has only 1.5 min CD in Lethality, so it's another "+". And u forgot the most important thing - 30% reduction against dots. It's huge in current meta. Again, i do not understand why Concealment is better in terms of survivability. Besides, you can support your team with heals. About 1k hps is not impossible.

The biggest problem with Lethality is that u need 3-4 GCDs to start doing damage. It's too long in pvp. If they wanted to make CA our main attack, they should make TB apply both our dots on target or increase surge for CA. Something like that.

I see very few Lethality ops besides me. But remember, when you've done well, it's not cause your spec op (hello shadows), it's cause you played well.

 

PS

Sorry for bad englis. I hope, it's clear, what i wanted to say.

 

Scrapper is more fun for me, as ruffian has those instances where its hard for me to optomize my rotation, like when your trying to switch between targets. I usually find myself trying to figure out to use sanquine, then PBS, or dot up before I use sanquine and PBS. The difference is usually crucial.

 

And the amount of escaping, stunning, rooting, and knockbacks flying around in pvp now, your likely to have something interupt you killing your target.

 

1v1 its hard to tell. Me and the other scoundrel I know will duel once he gets his gear to exumed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually do not understand u guys. You say: Concealment has better survivability than Lethality

 

The difference is lethality eats more damage and concealment avoids it completely so you don't need the instant heal or damage reductions just to survive.

 

A few things to think about:

 

  • The dodge/resist buff on roll lasts 1.5 seconds and for each roll it makes you immune to all incoming damage AND also prevents any dots already on you from dealing damage. So basically with 2 rolls a concealment/scrapper is completely immune to any damage for 3 seconds every 10 seconds. Additionally, the buff makes you immune to any CC/knockbacks/pulls too. If you time it correctly you can completely neuter bursty classes like lightning sorcs, mercs, and PTs.
     
  • Crippling slice/shank shot prevents the target from facing you. If they can't face you they can't deal any damage. If you chain shank shot and a stun right after that's 8 seconds where they can't hurt you. You WILL force cooldowns out of people because they just won't survive you if they don't.
     
  • Sneak increases your run speed. In PVP right now every class has some way of closing the gap or increasing the gap against you so the extra run speed allows you to run away more effectively or close the cap against people who try to kite you.

Edited by Fellow-Canadian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The difference is lethality eats more damage and concealment avoids it completely so you don't need the instant heal or damage reductions just to survive.

 

A few things to think about:

 

  • The dodge/resist buff on roll lasts 1.5 seconds and for each roll it makes you immune to all incoming damage AND also prevents any dots already on you from dealing damage. So basically with 2 rolls a concealment/scrapper is completely immune to any damage for 3 seconds every 10 seconds. Additionally, the buff makes you immune to any CC/knockbacks/pulls too. If you time it correctly you can completely neuter bursty classes like lightning sorcs, mercs, and PTs.
     
  • Crippling slice/shank shot prevents the target from facing you. If they can't face you they can't deal any damage. If you chain shank shot and a stun right after that's 8 seconds where they can't hurt you. You WILL force cooldowns out of people because they just won't survive you if they don't.
     
  • Sneak increases your run speed. In PVP right now every class has some way of closing the gap or increasing the gap against you so the extra run speed allows you to run away more effectively or close the cap against people who try to kite you.

 

That roll is one serious buff to Concealment. I hope it isn't nerfed. In pve I have absorbed countless boss hits that are meant to 1 shot players ... yet kept on living.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Lethality is a joke and not viable for anything. Don't play it.
This is HILARIOUS!! Sounds more like a hate comment than actual advice. Concealment is very good if not SUPERIOR in 1v1 fights as opposed to taking on 3 or 4 which is more likely in PvP. There are very few times in PvP where you are 1v1 and nobody jumps in to help. With Lethality you can double DoT a crowd and take a few out, then cull or CC those that survive while you're teammates mop up the rest. Not really that possible with Concealment. So I would say Lethality for PvP and helping out your team, Concealment for 1v1 or if you'd rather PvP selfishly. Both are decent for PvE, but to each his own. Edited by Kilthares
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah that is one of the things I like about lethality, its more fun winning duels and out dps'ing folks in unconventional pvp role, sometimes you can even tell that alot of folks have no idea how to fight a leth operative because there are so few around :p

 

This.

 

Lethality is perfectly fine in PvP, both regs and ranked. Certainly not OP, but way better than some other specs. I'd say Concealment and Lethality are approximately of the same strength. Each spec has its merits. I choose Lethality because I absolutely love the mid-range playstyle and because it is almost never played.

 

So to the OP: if you like the playing style of Lethality, just play Lethality, it isn't worse (or better) than Concealment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually do not understand u guys. You say: Concealment has better survivability than Lethality, but in my opinion instant KI after roll is better than just resist. With two KPs on you it really helps to survive. Stim boost has only 1.5 min CD in Lethality, so it's another "+". And u forgot the most important thing - 30% reduction against dots. It's huge in current meta. Again, i do not understand why Concealment is better in terms of survivability. Besides, you can support your team with heals. About 1k hps is not impossible.

The biggest problem with Lethality is that u need 3-4 GCDs to start doing damage. It's too long in pvp. If they wanted to make CA our main attack, they should make TB apply both our dots on target or increase surge for CA. Something like that.

I see very few Lethality ops besides me. But remember, when you've done well, it's not cause your spec op (hello shadows), it's cause you played well.

 

PS

Sorry for bad englis. I hope, it's clear, what i wanted to say.

 

It really comes down to one thing. Lethality survivability is decent against pressure and sustained specs, but not that great against any sort of burst and it takes a while to apply.

 

Concealment you can roll through the highest burst imaginable. Take this scenario:

 

4 AP pts decide the want to kill you, but none of them have stuns available. They all throw thermal detonator and explosive dart on you. Then they all also happen to have energy burst fully buffed. First you roll through 4x energy burst (4x13k), then you roll through 4x TD + 4x ED + 4x rail shot (4x 10k + 4x6k + 4x9k). In 3 seconds you just mitigated 152k damage and are totally unscathed. You took zero damage from all of that. Lethality would have been blown up even with shield probe and all the heals ticking.

 

Side note: you will have to escape after rolling because they will still have energy burst available, but still).

 

Of course this situation is unlikely, but it illustrates the point. Lethality is vulnerable to burst, but concealment isnt. Concealment does okay against sustained pressure with shield probe, purge, and probes. Concealment has better survivability.

Edited by Saikochoro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lethality is a joke and not viable for anything. Don't play it.

 

OP do not listen to this post.

 

Lethality is great in regs. Its not a faceroll dot spec like hatred, but you can be a very effective player in reg warzones with lethality. If you are an exceptional player you can do well in ranked as well. I do extremely well in regs with both lethality and concealment. Both are perfectly fine in that realm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issue with lethality is that it deals around the same damage as concealment, assuming the target is DoTed beforehand. Sorcs, sins, and ops can all purge your DoTs, leaving you helpless for another 3-4 GCDs.

 

So with lethality you trade mobility, target switching, and burst mitigation for slightly more range and slightly more durability vs. pressure specs (uncommon in regs).

 

Side note: Corrosive grenade will snare for 24sec in the next patch. If you hate maras and juggs, here's your spec.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP do not listen to this post.

 

Lethality is great in regs. Its not a faceroll dot spec like hatred, but you can be a very effective player in reg warzones with lethality. If you are an exceptional player you can do well in ranked as well. I do extremely well in regs with both lethality and concealment. Both are perfectly fine in that realm.

 

Its viable but not great, concealment is the superior pvp spec, it has better survivability, burst and control and overall damage until the dot spread mechanic is made more viable it will be the inferior spec

Edited by dego-harmonium
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its viable but not great, concealment is the superior pvp spec, it has better survivability, burst and control and overall damage until the dot spread mechanic is made more viable it will be the inferior spec

 

Concealment is superior...never denied that, but in regs both are great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Concealment is better in most cases, in my experience, although the sheer inexperience a lot of people have with fighting lethality/the amount of derps in regs allows it to shine in some cases.

 

I was able to rack up 950k damage and 780k healing in a novare while specced as lethality, I'm pretty sure I had the most objective points, a good amount of kills, and a decent amount of killing blows, (like 18-22 or something, so it's not like I was just dot spamming), and I took quite a bunch of damage, and only managed to die a few times. It's an excellent spec to play if you want to be an annoying *** to the other team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would recommend you play both for a week or two in regs. Make sure you have good rotations for each spec so you can see the potential for yourself once your sharp.

Find out if your comfort is with a given spec by playing them. Best way is "hands on" mate. Learn the slightly different tools and ranges til comfortable then make an informed decision.

I've played both but find concealment more comfortable likely due to playing it first and for longer? ymmv.

Good luck. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Concealment if you want to be a wrecking ball. Lethality if you want to help your team by more indirect means like off-healing, DoT spreading, and surprise bursts after some setup.

 

Throwing up 2600 HoT ticks on your team is the difference between capping South or not on Novare Coast. Putting DoTs on a group that takes almost 2000 HP together makes the life of the enemy's healer Hell. GCDs spent cleansing are GCDs not spent on healing.

 

You yourself heal a good amount with the on demand Kolto pack every 10 seconds.

 

Lethality definitely has its uses, and offers more to a team than Concealment does in my opinion. And once set up, you can put out some solid burst numbers with Culls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Concealment if you want to be a wrecking ball. Lethality if you want to help your team by more indirect means like off-healing, DoT spreading, and surprise bursts after some setup.

 

Throwing up 2600 HoT ticks on your team is the difference between capping South or not on Novare Coast. Putting DoTs on a group that takes almost 2000 HP together makes the life of the enemy's healer Hell. GCDs spent cleansing are GCDs not spent on healing.

 

You yourself heal a good amount with the on demand Kolto pack every 10 seconds.

 

Lethality definitely has its uses, and offers more to a team than Concealment does in my opinion. And once set up, you can put out some solid burst numbers with Culls.

 

What are you doing to be getting 2.6k ticks on HoTs and 2k on dots

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually get 2.6 -2.7k crits on kolto probes. The non crits are about 1.7k though. I don't really pay attention to how much my dots are doing though.

 

Yeah saying crits and just saying 2.6 is actually very different, one implies that it naturally does that much

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My bad. Yeah. My crits tick for that much. I crit fairly often at around 28%, and that jumps up to about 34 with the PVP relic, so I just see that number a lot. The point I was making stands, though, in that you can be a solid off-healer, an anchor on the enemy healer, surprise burst damage, and survivor should you play your cards right.

 

I enjoy both specs, though. You just can't play one like the other. If you try to play Lethality like it's Concealment and rely on upfront/quick burst damage you're not going to succeed. Lethality is about the setup. Get HoTs rolling on yourself and DoTs rolling on them. You're constantly gaining health and they're losing. Then when you lay on the culls the burst takes them by surprise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...