Reverse Engineering really 20% on all items?

[Kadin]

If this is really the case, I find it really hard to believe because I've been trying to RE some level 56 stims/medpacs for the past few hours. The blues will not RE into the purple yet just like everything else, it says there's a 20% chance. When I was leveling up Biochem to 500, just about every green I RE'd did it the first or second time. Now I'm at the point where I've done it about 12 times on both with zero success.

 

I know RNG is RNG but how is it always like this only at the top end yet the % is supposedly the same?

[Vashgud]

Go try it with lower end items. I normally did 4 at a time taking up to 8 or so to get a hit. 12 could just be bad luck. Only further reversing will tell post 3.0 nerfbat swinging piñata contest results...

[Kadin]

Well, like I said, going from 450 to 500 via the greens resulted in a successful RE every 1-3 times. I got them a LOT. Now that I'm trying to RE the blues into purps, it's a big fat negative and just another huge waste. I'm fine with the fact that the more rare item is harder to learn, I get that. But if that's the case, please at least show me the proper percentage. Instead of the blanket 20%, show me the real number which is probably more like 5% it seems. Edited December 7, 2014 by Kadin

[Tsillah]

That's the thing about a 20% chance. It doesn't stack, so 5 attempts doesn't guarantee you a success. Sometimes I need 15 or 20 attempts to get, but certainly not all the time.

 

It's a statistical chance. It is actually possible to never crit at all, just very unlikely...but still possible because each attempt is calculated separately each attempt has a chance to fail or succeed.

 

So it could be worse really.

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

See it from the other side:

 

A 20% chance of a result is an 80% chance of a failure

[Kadin]

That's the thing about a 20% chance. It doesn't stack, so 5 attempts doesn't guarantee you a success. Sometimes I need 15 or 20 attempts to get, but certainly not all the time.

 

It's a statistical chance. It is actually possible to never crit at all, just very unlikely...but still possible because each attempt is calculated separately each attempt has a chance to fail or succeed.

 

So it could be worse really.

Yeah I know the stacks count as one. Have you never noticed though that the RE comes very quickly when you're leveling your crew skill in the lower ranges and then once you're doing to top end, it takes bloody forever? I've got 3 characters that all level Biochem and this seems to always happen. I eventually get it but man sometimes it just seems to be much more rare than the tooltip would indicate. I know I'm just splitting hairs here but it's just frustrating at times.

See it from the other side:

 

A 20% chance of a result is an 80% chance of a failure

That's true. But again, I'm talking more about how it's clearly not consistent. Getting the rarer items clearly takes longer so you could say that it's just bad luck but I'm noticing a pattern here.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Kadin

[Heal-To-Full]

If this is really the case, I find it really hard to believe because I've been trying to RE some level 56 stims/medpacs for the past few hours.

Same here, I wasted stack after stack to no end on one of my characters. That is 30+ times (120 blues wasted!!), no proc. Given up. IDK if it's really really bad luck or if the tooltip is wrong. Specifically for blue->purple; green->blue is clearly 20%.

 

12 times is nothing, 20% chance means you're not out of reasonable deviation at all yet.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

0.8 probability to fail an R/E

The chance to fail 12x in a row is 0.8^12 = 0.0687xxxx

 

(x100 for %) = 6.87% chance to fail 12 times in a row. It's hardly an inconceivable chance. 100 players all in a room are given 12 stims each to RE. At the end of it, 6-7 of them put their hands up and say they didn't get a result. How 'unlucky' do you feel now?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Cotlu-Hunlon

[Kadin]

I think you guys are missing the point of what I'm inquiring about. You guys keep responding and validating that going 12 times is considered normal and can be expected. I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the fact, once again, that it's not nearly the same through the leveling process. I can't really state it any other way. Why would I get so many successful RE's on greens to blues and then a huge drop from blues to purple if it's all 20%? I'm now at the 21 mark with zero of either.

[palekiss]

I think you guys are missing the point of what I'm inquiring about. You guys keep responding and validating that going 12 times is considered normal and can be expected. I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the fact, once again, that it's not nearly the same through the leveling process. I can't really state it any other way. Why would I get so many successful RE's on greens to blues and then a huge drop from blues to purple if it's all 20%? I'm now at the 21 mark with zero of either.

 

Absolutely incorrect. It's just as easy to spend 50 attempts RE'ing a green Might Mod 2 as it is to hit it the first time you RE a blue Resilient Mod 34. It's human nature at work, people try to find patterns in random events and you are predisposed to throw out (ignore or forget, not on purpose) results that don't fit the pattern you're looking for.

 

This happens in every game that has any kind of random event, including Powerball drawings, poker tournaments, video games, etc. Wanting it to be true does not make it true.

Edited December 7, 2014 by palekiss

[Tsillah]

Yeah I know the stacks count as one. Have you never noticed though that the RE comes very quickly when you're leveling your crew skill in the lower ranges and then once you're doing to top end, it takes bloody forever? I've got 3 characters that all level Biochem and this seems to always happen. I eventually get it but man sometimes it just seems to be much more rare than the tooltip would indicate. I know I'm just splitting hairs here but it's just frustrating at times.

 

I did have that when I just starting the crafting the first couple of days, but now I seem to be critting a lot of purple schems again so it's balanced out already for me.

 

You are right though...it can be frustrating, but then again, it does make it feel like a victory when it does work out

[jeremyofmany]

I like ESO's take on crafting where, if you had enough mats, your chance of learning the next best quality version of the crafted item became 100%; it would just take longer to get it. It could take hours, even days depending on how high-end the item was.

[Essence_of_Light]

Like you said, RNG is RNG. Edited December 7, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[timfluence]

I think that stuff that you already researched to blue has only a 10% chance of learning a new schematic, not 20%. I'm at work though, so I can't double check that. Anyway, it might be worth double-checking the tooltip when you hover over the item before reverse-engineering it.

[DeaconDC]

Yeah I know the stacks count as one. Have you never noticed though that the RE comes very quickly when you're leveling your crew skill in the lower ranges and then once you're doing to top end, it takes bloody forever?

 

I wonder if this isn't perception bias. Lower ranges generate items faster for RE-ing than higher levels, so the actual play/wait time for the RE success to proc is much less in the average.

[AndasKastor]

I think you guys are missing the point of what I'm inquiring about. You guys keep responding and validating that going 12 times is considered normal and can be expected. I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the fact, once again, that it's not nearly the same through the leveling process. I can't really state it any other way. Why would I get so many successful RE's on greens to blues and then a huge drop from blues to purple if it's all 20%? I'm now at the 21 mark with zero of either.

 

Not necessarily true. This morning I re-engineered 15 Might Mod 2 before I got the blue. I would have given up if I weren't a completionist Conversely I got the purple on the first blue Might Mod 2 I re-engineered. Random is random.

[LukeTheGeek]

If this is really the case, I find it really hard to believe because I've been trying to RE some level 56 stims/medpacs for the past few hours. The blues will not RE into the purple yet just like everything else, it says there's a 20% chance. When I was leveling up Biochem to 500, just about every green I RE'd did it the first or second time. Now I'm at the point where I've done it about 12 times on both with zero success.

 

I know RNG is RNG but how is it always like this only at the top end yet the % is supposedly the same?

 

A 20% CHANCE does not mean it will happen 20% of the time. Put the numbers 1 to 5 on scraps of paper and put them in a bag. Will you draw a 3 every 5 times? No, you shall not.

[x_Boots_x]

I remember early on in the game I REed a lvl 50 blue head piece over 100 times with no schematic received, so items are occasionally bugged, at least they have been in he past.

[Kadin]

I wonder if this isn't perception bias. Lower ranges generate items faster for RE-ing than higher levels, so the actual play/wait time for the RE success to proc is much less in the average.

Yeah it's possible that this is the case. It does take longer to make the items so it seems to be worse. I just know that I've created a lot of blues from greens in just the past day but as soon as I tried for 2 purples, it just took forever. I finally got them just a short while ago.

 

And to the rest saying that I'm incorrect: I'm not just making this up to support my claim. I'm simply reporting my findings and this has been very apparent to me for a while now. This recent run-in with it just brought it back up once again.

[vathouille]

I think you guys are missing the point of what I'm inquiring about. You guys keep responding and validating that going 12 times is considered normal and can be expected. I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the fact, once again, that it's not nearly the same through the leveling process. I can't really state it any other way. Why would I get so many successful RE's on greens to blues and then a huge drop from blues to purple if it's all 20%? I'm now at the 21 mark with zero of either.

 

I'd call perception bias on that one. My own experience does not lead me to think that chances are different depending on item level.

 

Just this afternoon, I crafted 10 lvl. 55+ implants and got 6 blue procs. Definitely not complaining on that one

[Heal-To-Full]

It might be bias, but blue->purple chance seems to be lower this time than green->blue.

So it might be a change without changing the tooltip. Or just coincidences.

[Anniahilus]

To the OP, I feel your pain. I was cursed and blessed by the RNG gods earlier today. I RE'd 3 different purple relics off of 5 blue ones and then on another character RE'd 25 blue augments (4 different ones) and only got 1 purple schematic. RNG is a female dog at times.

[znihilist]

-Sigh- Op, this has been tested over and over again. There is no difference if you are leveling or not, if you are 500 or not. Logging in and out doesn't change, RE'ing 1 by 1 doesn't change anything, RE'ing the whole stack doesn't change anything.

 

The problem is that because it is random and considering how big the population is, sometimes people start to notice weird patterns. But these patterns are just a result of a large number of experiments.

 

That doesn't negate the fact that the system itself could use an overhaul, but it has been tested over and over and there is nothing wrong with it.

[HelinCarnate]

In addition to terrible crit luck on RE from blue to purple I have also noticed terrible luck with getting crits while crafting blue augs. +5% companion bonus, another +5% due to affection plus the legacy bonus and still I am 0-20 on both RE and for getting a crit while crafting blue augs.

[SirMannii]

Wait, what? Didn't BioWare say there will be NO reusable stims and medpacs in 3.0 for the new crafting?

 

 

Of course you cannot recraft something that do not exist in that case. Blue stims/medpacs is also better than the purple ones in pre 3.0 crafting because purples are reusable. I might be totally wrong but I might just solved the entire thing for this thread. :D

 

:mon_rolleyes::mon_rolleyes:

Edited December 8, 2014 by SirMannii