Dual/Tri Spec (within AC) is a MUST due to design decisions

[Jacksome]

I will be ok with it if they add dual spec in the game. It won't be something that causes me to cry elephant tears and threaten to cancel my sub or anything but I think it waters down a characters/players identity.

 

Pretty much sums up how I feel.

[Nonoka]

Why not try to be decent at one thing instead of sucking at several?

[Mivanda]

I would love to be able to dual-spec in this game. One spec for PVE, one spec for PVP.

[DarthFreki]

In Everquest there was no AA, there was no skill trees, there was just skills you used (like 1 hand, 2 hand, blunt etc.) and your class abilities. if you needed a to find a different way to set up, you looked for different gear and carried it around with you. in Aion, you did the same. though aion had a skill tree you could use as well. what ever happened to KNOWING how to play your class and your reputation was because YOU showed your skill.

 

Now days if you do this you are branded not desirable and shunned in games like WoW because you can flip a switch and then suddenly you are a healer vs a tank.

 

MMORPG.... in DnD which these games are BASED upon you could only do one thing, and you chose your path from beginning to end. why can't we just go back to the basics now.... are you too set in your ways to even try something new? and I say new because i bet most of those wanting the damn multi-spec haven't played mmo's befor 2004/2005.

 

hell lets get rid of quest trackers! lets get rid of the symbols above an npc's head and make you actually TALK to the npc instead of CLICK and CLICK! I will continue to say this: IF you don't like the game quit. if you don't like how it is made, send it to the devs don't post your mindless drivel about how you can't be 4 classes and solo heroic 4's at level 2!

 

Darth Freki

[TrikkiOne]

Respecs are still in place. If your guild needs a tank or healer to account for players moving on to other guilds then someone can respec to that build and cover the loss. Personally if I were running the guild I would want someone who was proficient at that role, not someone who flip-flopped back and forth.

 

I totally get where you're coming from, but I think that response is a bit one dimensional and outdated. Without trying to sound like a tosser, in WoW on my Druid, I was a great PVE tank and PVP healer too. Luckily there was only dual spec there, because I freakin sucked at DPS lol.

 

I am personally against the idea of dual specs but that is probably because I am used to the older games where you built a reputation as a solid tank, awesome healer or uber dps. I would rather be known as "Razhah, that great combat medic" than "Razhah, the dps guy who can also heal ok if we need him to".

 

What about...Razhah the guy that saved our raid because he could heal as well as DPS, without him we would have had to cancel.

 

I will be ok with it if they add dual spec in the game. It won't be something that causes me to cry elephant tears and threaten to cancel my sub or anything but I think it waters down a characters/players identity.

 

In essense, I agree with you, but years and years of MMO gaming tell me that character identity isn't much use if you can't complete content because you're missing key positions - the drawback of the Holy Trinity design.

 

One thing I also forgot to mention in the OP was what about the design opportunities it gives Bioware? You could have 3-4 tanks and healers in the raid, but switch some to DPS where less were required e.g. DPS race type encounters.

 

Lastly, thanks for some of the great responses, whether you agree with me or not the general tone of this post has been respectful and courteous.

Edited December 25, 2011 by TrikkiOne

[TrikkiOne]

The people affected the most by a lack of dual spec are those that want to heal but also quest as DPS. I am a sorcerer and love to heal flashpoints, but questing as a healer is awful to me.

 

Personally I think the people most affected are:

 

- "Those that want to heal but also quest as DPS"

- Raiding Guilds

- PVP'rs

- Small groups of friends that are looking for gameplay diversity without rerolling

- Those that don't want to level up again

 

I think that's almost everyone isn't it? Those that don't want it, don't have to use it.

 

I don't think you can lose by implementing a multi-spec system.

[Varghjerta]

Personally I think the people most affected are:

 

- "Those that want to heal but also quest as DPS"

- Raiding Guilds

- PVP'rs

- Small groups of friends that are looking for gameplay diversity without rerolling

- Those that don't want to level up again

 

I think that's almost everyone isn't it? Those that don't want it, don't have to use it.

 

I don't think you can lose by implementing a multi-spec system.

 

When Healing and tanking while levling and soloing have been made so viable i personally don't see any use for Dual specc for PVE.

 

When you have the option to respecc already in the game the choices are already there if people want to try out a different method of playing

[chavoda]

Hm, On the basic level I'm against everyone able to do everything, diversity is a good thing but looking back on about 20 years mmo experience theres no denial that in a holy-trinity game its simply required.

 

personally I also remember countless games were I would be playing a support role of sorts ,be good at it but find myself stuck on random pve content since the DPS"s(or any class) could handle it but as a support I could not.

 

smaller guilds having the need for outside help just to do tings, or leaving members behind due to a "wrong build"

 

dual-spec will increase the loot whores somewhat but it will be easy to kick them out (since everyone can chance role then) and take up the role thats needed, besites that most people will go for orange mod able gear in time and simply chance gear on the fly or build a non-min-max set thats decent for everything as far flash points and pve work.

 

PvP people already try to max their gear out and a good pvp team also runs out roles and tactics before hand.

 

operations are big enough to take up specialized roles were you can pick gear and role before hand and need little switching.

 

Theres not much of a reason not to have dual-specs in the game, the only problem might be for the pure dps classes. they will have the "look cool" factor but switching between dps..dps..and..dps might cause those classes to be played less then a healer/tank able class that can switch between at least two modes.

 

and one thing, if we get dual-spec in the game for the pve and pvp players, I "demand" chat bubbles. we need chat bubbles it makes grouping so much better and pvp way cooler and pve way more intresting..right...right? pleaseeeeeee ..

(got to keep our role-play needs heard )

[momentum]

I play a jug tank. I level as a tank, I do flashpoints as a tank, and I pvp as a tank. At first I thought no dual spec would suck. Now i love that I'm always a tank. My character is a tank, no matter what I'm doing. That makes sense and it feels like my character is more defined, i also think that since I always play the same spec I actually get a lot better at being a tank, then if i was switching to dps specs for pvping/leveling w/e. I like that you kind of have to make a solid decision and stick with it.

[chavoda]

When Healing and tanking while levling and soloing have been made so viable i personally don't see any use for Dual specc for PVE.

 

When you have the option to respecc already in the game the choices are already there if people want to try out a different method of playing

 

 

Not all healer/tank specs are viable in pve , up to 30 its fine, after that things get a little worse. there are "unbalances" in the game that makes even story content sometimes very very hard and/or unable to do whit certain class specs. goos for dps,heal or tank.

and thats suppose to be solo content

[Varghjerta]

Not all healer/tank specs are viable in pve , up to 30 its fine, after that things get a little worse. there are "unbalances" in the game that makes even story content sometimes very very hard and/or unable to do whit certain class specs. goos for dps,heal or tank.

and thats suppose to be solo content

 

Unbalanced will after awhile get balanced and i dont see why the above should be better with dual specc..

And basicly aswell why do people think that dual specc will be free

[TrikkiOne]

where do I start with this one...

 

In Everquest there was no AA, there was no skill trees, there was just skills you used (like 1 hand, 2 hand, blunt etc.) and your class abilities. if you needed a to find a different way to set up, you looked for different gear and carried it around with you.

 

Everquest, really? I played Everquest, for 5 years actually in one of the best early raiding guilds on the planet (Afterlife - Mithaniel Marr), but I sure as hell aint goin back anytime soon.

 

Everquest was a game created over 12 years ago, but lets face it, Everquest was legendary in its time, but had no competition (UO barely) and was but a drop in the ocean compared to the current MMO market. At peak Everquest had less than 500,000 subscibers and it was highly criticised for its timesinks, class imbalances, bugged content and ridiculous raid requirements.

 

in Aion, you did the same. though aion had a skill tree you could use as well. what ever happened to KNOWING how to play your class and your reputation was because YOU showed your skill.

 

How is that in any way changed by having multi-specs? It really has no bearing whatsoever. You assume that people are incapable of being good at 2 roles which is not true.

 

Now days if you do this you are branded not desirable and shunned in games like WoW because you can flip a switch and then suddenly you are a healer vs a tank.

 

Again, an invalid point, you still have the same name (don't get me started on the pitfalls of name changes).

 

Also, the subscriber bases and worlds are so huge now you rarely run into the same people often unless you choose to.

 

MMORPG.... in DnD which these games are BASED upon you could only do one thing, and you chose your path from beginning to end. why can't we just go back to the basics now.... are you too set in your ways to even try something new? and I say new because i bet most of those wanting the damn multi-spec haven't played mmo's befor 2004/2005.

 

DnD is not an MMORPG, not even close. Its a paper and dice based role playing game played with real life friends. it has completely different gameplay, communication and social interactions. Its hardly "Massive"...Apples to Oranges my friend.

 

Am I too set in my ways? Mirror meet Darth Freki.

 

I'm pretty sure I was playing online multi-player games before many people here were even born. I've been down the text based MUD games on bulletin boards, to the internet, then UO, EQ, DAoC etc etc, believe me, I've played over 30 MMO's, and I can think of 2 that had multi-spec'ing while I was playing - WoW and Rift. If anything I should be set in the way that you're arguing for, but I'm not.

 

hell lets get rid of quest trackers! lets get rid of the symbols above an npc's head and make you actually TALK to the npc instead of CLICK and CLICK! I will continue to say this: IF you don't like the game quit. if you don't like how it is made, send it to the devs don't post your mindless drivel about how you can't be 4 classes and solo heroic 4's at level 2!

 

This last paragraph is ridiculous, doesn't even deserve a response. Henny Penny.

[Noesis]

Signed of course.

[NasherUK]

Dual spec is kinda needed, or they need to lower the respec costs a LOT. There are hardly any healers or tanks on some servers at the moment because they are horrible to level as, which makes finding groups near impossible at times.

 

You should never be able to switch AC though, since the ACs are completely seperate classes.

Edited December 25, 2011 by NasherUK

[TrikkiOne]

Unbalanced will after awhile get balanced and i dont see why the above should be better with dual specc..

And basicly aswell why do people think that dual specc will be free

 

Basically, at 34 my full healing spec Scoundrel is really painful to level. most the time I'm a heal bot for my companion and killing is sooo slooooow. I'm often forced to stealth through content while i watch Troopers etc just smash it.

 

I'm pretty much at the point now where I'm ready to reroll.

 

By the time balance changes come around, we'll be 50 and not care or have quit.

 

I don't want respecs to be free, either make it a one-off high cost to purchase permanently (WoW, Rift) or make it a small cost every time you want to switch. I'd go for number 2 personally, makes it more accessible to casual players and from a design perspective it makes the money sink goes on forever (MMO economy requirement).

[MajikMyst]

Dual spec within AC has already been confirmed to be added..

 

Tri spec is kinda stupid.. We don't need more than 2.. In fact most people can barely justify dual specs..

 

I see no point in having to hassle with the morons that roll for offspec whenever they can.. Sure you can kick them.. After the loot is already stolen..

 

Dual specs is comming.. Nuff said!!

[Varghjerta]

Dual spec is kinda needed, or they need to lower the respec costs a LOT. There are hardly any healers or tanks on some servers at the moment because they are horrible to level as, which makes finding groups near impossible at times.

 

You should never be able to switch AC though, since the ACs are completely seperate classes. If you picked the AC at level 1 no one would ask to be able to switch.

 

Actually i do not agree with this .

 

Basicly i wonder if people actually even tried to level as a tank or healer or if they take the assumption WoW did it that way then it must be the same here.

 

Pve wise healers and tanks are very viable for soloing

Edited December 25, 2011 by Varghjerta

[TrikkiOne]

I play a jug tank. I level as a tank, I do flashpoints as a tank, and I pvp as a tank. At first I thought no dual spec would suck. Now i love that I'm always a tank. My character is a tank, no matter what I'm doing. That makes sense and it feels like my character is more defined, i also think that since I always play the same spec I actually get a lot better at being a tank, then if i was switching to dps specs for pvping/leveling w/e. I like that you kind of have to make a solid decision and stick with it.

 

You still can, adding multi-spec doesn't change the fact you can just play the same spec forever. Noone forces you.

[Pingor]

I wouldn't say its needed at all. Imo people have been spoiled by WoW. I play dps because I like it. I'm not fond of healing and like an earlier poster said I will be criticized for not picking up healing as a secondary. It doesn't matter what other people think but its enough to get you not invited to groups.

 

If I could tank it would be a different story but Commandos cant, so essentially dual spec is useless to me.

 

Its not actually needed, tri spec is certainly 100% not needed and neither is AC swtiching. That would equate the game to "hey pick a class...there you dont have to see any other content ever again even though we spent years making it because you can do everything"

 

Im expecting dual spec to be in a some point, although I doubt Ill ever heal, I mean why should I if I find it boring? but Tri and AC will NEVER be in and would be a bad design choice with how the game is structured.

[NasherUK]

Actually i do not agree with this .

 

Basicly i wonder if people actually even tried to level as a tank or healer or if they take the assumption WoW did it that way then it must be the same here.

 

Pve wise healers and tanks are very viable for soloing

 

I am leveling as a juggernaut tank and I've had boss mobs which spam heal themselves and are almost un-killable. Also I do so little damage that I have to use a healing companion, otherwise harder mobs kill me before I kill them, tank specs in pvp seem useless as well. To respec it costs me over 40k :/

Edited December 25, 2011 by NasherUK

[TrikkiOne]

Dual spec within AC has already been confirmed to be added..

 

Tri spec is kinda stupid.. We don't need more than 2.. In fact most people can barely justify dual specs..

 

I see no point in having to hassle with the morons that roll for offspec whenever they can.. Sure you can kick them.. After the loot is already stolen..

 

Dual specs is comming.. Nuff said!!

 

Tri/quad spec situation...

 

I'm PVE tank, but I have a DPS offspec because we don't always need tanking for raids. I've just used 2 specs.

 

hrm...I like to PVP too in DPS mode, but I kinda suck because I didn't pick any PVP based abilities...a third spec sure would be handy.

 

My guild needs a PVP healer but none are on. If only I had that fourth spec to use I'd save the day.

 

Alternative:

 

Roll 4 seperate characters and level them to 50, then try to manage gear on each one seperately...won't happen, I've already quit. Only so many times I can take the same areas and quests.

[Varghjerta]

I am leveling as a juggernaut tank and I've had boss mobs which spam heal themselves and are almost un-killable. Also I do so little damage that I have to use a healing companion, otherwise harder mobs kill me before I kill them, tank specs in pvp seem useless as well. To respec it costs me over 40k :/

 

The same is it for the DPS or for healer what do you expect that every mob in the game should be balanced .

 

And if they are unkillable then come back after a level or two not harder then that.

[TrikkiOne]

I wouldn't say its needed at all. Imo people have been spoiled by WoW. I play dps because I like it. I'm not fond of healing and like an earlier poster said I will be criticized for not picking up healing as a secondary. It doesn't matter what other people think but its enough to get you not invited to groups.

 

And do you not PVP? Do you know that some abilities in skill trees have only PVE or PVP purpose?

[Psykhe]

Switching between it should be free. I would be perfectly okay with a cost for getting it in the first place if its a reasonable one. As in not one you can only afford at 50 after days/weeks of grinding. Something in the area of the first or second speeder training would be fine.

 

Personally I am also in the solo dps, group healer group. Lets kill a few misinformations here.

 

- "I can level as healer just as fast as dps"

 

Seriously? And care to explain how you miraculously manage to counter that you have almost no DPS increasing talents in your build? Switching from a tank to a dps companion is not countering this in the least.

 

It seems to me that most people claiming they level just as fast either base their opinion on lvl 10-19 where there is no real difference - no suprise considering you only have up to 10 talent points there which isn't enough to really flesh out a dps build - or haven't really tried a dps build long enough to play it to its full extend.

 

Leveling as healer is certainly *possible* but it is also *slow* and *easy*. As healer you are virtually unkillable by NPCs. Which makes solo leveling as healer both slower and less interesting. No, thanks.

 

- "Stick to one role to learn it"

 

Gameplay in solo PVE and group PVE, nevermind PVP is rather different. Mastering one as healer does not help me much in mastering the other. Except the very basic mechanics, but if you need to play a class from 1-50 to master those I'd suggest to play something simpler, like Tic-Tac-Toe.

[Pingor]

Tri/quad spec situation...

 

I'm PVE tank, but I have a DPS offspec because we don't always need tanking for raids. I've just used 2 specs.

 

hrm...I like to PVP too in DPS mode, but I kinda suck because I didn't pick any PVP based abilities...a third spec sure would be handy.

 

My guild needs a PVP healer but none are on. If only I had that fourth spec to use I'd save the day.

 

Alternative:

 

Roll 4 seperate characters and level them to 50, then try to manage gear on each one seperately...won't happen, I've already quit. Only so many times I can take the same areas and quests.

 

WONT....EVER....HAPPEN.

 

Heck even WoW had more options in specs than SWTOR, but I love this game so much more. But WoW only ever ahd dual spec. Honestly make your DPS spec viable for PVP as well as PVP its not hard...considering theres little to no abilities to be gained from the spec trees.

 

Simply put deal with it, what you're doing could destroy any need for other classes.