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Dual/Tri Spec (within AC) is a MUST due to design decisions


TrikkiOne

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Apologies for the wall of text, but I feel pretty strongly about this. If you're a TLDR type person, please leave now. Constructive debate is welcome, but flaming...not interested.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm REALLY enjoying the game, despite not being a Star Wars fan. So far the gameplay has been fun, the storylines great and the PVP is pretty well balanced (at this early stage).

 

I don't believe people should be able to change AC's on the fly (though the possibility should exist for extreme cost but that's another post!).

 

I do however believe that Dual-Spec or Tri-Spec with the ability to change it on the fly (out of combat) is a requirement for this game for the following reasons:

 

4 Person Groups and the Holy Trinity

 

I think 4 person groups is a design flaw as the ratio of DPS to Tank/Heals is way too low. Dual-Tri specs give people the ability to switch on a needs basis which adds flexibility and makes grouping, guild recruiting and raiding SO much easier to manage. I think the group size alone makes instant respecs a requirement.

 

PVP

 

When you introduce PVP battlegrounds into a game and make it available from anywhere in the world with a short queue time, you MUST make respec'ing on the fly available.

 

Also, when you have abilities in the skill trees that are clearly PVP oriented and almost useless in PVE, you must have a system that supports the ability to switch on the fly. If you don't, you force players into a decision between making a character for either PVP or PVE. This will result in casual players leaving the game fairly quickly if they enjoy both types of gameplay.

 

Player Expectation

 

All the most recent successful games have the ability to change specs on the fly, its become an expectation of players to have that flexibility. Do you deny that feature just to "be different"?

 

Rift's Soul Tree switching was fantastic design imo, you were almost never short on tanks/healers and it made the game so much easier to play. It helped form better communities of people as people were coming and going with different characters as much as they didn't suit a required role.

 

No clearly defined reason not to

 

If Bioware can give us a clear and logical design reason for not offering this feature then I'll accept it, but there seems to be no reason not to offer it except for those that like to punish themselves or stick to old traditions.

 

If you don't want the feature, don't use it and you'll be none-the-wiser.

 

Good for business

 

Giving people the flexibility to switch roles will also give them greater reason to play for longer which of course we all know is what Bioware really wants...longer subscription = more profits and that's just good business.

 

-------------------------------

 

I'd be interested to see the counter arguments for my points, please feel free to do so in a constructive and respectful manner.

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Signed. I play a Sith Assassin and up until level 35, I had little to no problems tanking in my DPS gear -- only having the tank stance on was sufficient.

 

However, now that I'm getting closer to 50, a dual/tri-spec is a must to perform adequately and not overburden the healer and the group since I don't have access to the talents available in the defense tree.

 

Rift has implemented this function; WoW started it. There's no excuse from Bioware's development team for not implementing such a functionality. If SW:TOR is trying to be at the forefront of the MMO genre, this should be their top priority. But judging from the lack of any decent end-game activities, a terribly designed AH, and sub-par PvP, I'm not holding my breath.

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I fully support the OP.

 

 

I play a merc dps what makes you think I want to play a healer?

 

I dont but the respecs then create the elitist who will demand that I swith to a very very specific builds.

 

I've played MMOs for years and I have NEVER seen anybody demand somebody switch to a role they didn't want to switch to.

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It's posts like this that make me hope Bioware actually reads some of these. Agreed 100%, dual spec needs to be an option not just for convenience but to get the most out of the hundreds of hours of gameplay you will put in on just one particular character.

 

I'm all for keeping your AC permanent, but dual spec is just a necessity nowadays.

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No clearly defined reason not to

 

If Bioware can give us a clear and logical design reason for not offering this feature then I'll accept it, but there seems to be no reason not to offer it except for those that like to punish themselves or stick to old traditions.

 

If you don't want the feature, don't use it and you'll be none-the-wiser.

 

 

I agree with you on the whole, but to presume there aren't cons to the system is ignorant.

 

It defeats an element of diversity if you can have 2 roles, letalone 3 and hence restricts the idea of 'meaningful decisions' but my main worry about it is the person who rolls need on some tanking gear in a fp that I just tanked because they need it for their other spec.

 

Whilst I would like a dual spec so I can level dps (before I get my healing companion) and group as a tank, ignoring the problems to which there may be solutions is unwise.

Edited by Goose
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It defeats an element of diversity if you can have 2 roles, letalone 3 and hence restricts the idea of 'meaningful decisions' but my main worry about it is the person who rolls need on some tanking gear in a fp that I just tanked because they need it for their other spec.

 

What's stopping people now from rolling need on stuff for their alts/companions? I understand your concern but this isn't really a valid argument. There will always be some people that roll need when they themselves can't use it.

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It's not a "requirement". It's just something that would make the game easier. Frankly, most people that play healers aren't very good healers anyway....so just allowing more people to dabble as part-time healers isn't going to help anything. If we're talking end-game, people that like playing multiple classes often have alts that they can switch to if an operation needs a healer or something like that. Allowing dual spec isn't going to ruin the game or anything but it's not anything that necessary that it should be given priority over other things that need attention right now.

 

The only characters that really need healers are DPS. Tanks don't need as much healing and like having DPS to quickly tear through the baddies they are aggroing. Healers don't need other healers...they need tanks and DPS around them. The people that are desperate for healers are DPS players who want to just stand there and spam attacks without having to use any real strategy. I've run plenty of Heroics and Flashpoints successfully without a tank or without a healer. People need to stop convincing themselves that nothing can be completed without a specific combination of 1 tank, 2 DPS and 1 healer. I'd rather have 3 good DPS players with my DPS toon than a good DPS, a bad tank and a bad healer. We have buffs, CC, medpacs, stims, defensive abilities, etc. at our disposal. There are plenty of ways to win a battle. Anytime I see someone say "need a healer", then that's a red flag to me and I stay away from joining that team.

 

If someone wants to play multiple roles or build a PVE and PVP build, then I'm all for that. But again, don't see that as being at the top of the priority list for this game right now. There are posts floating around from interviews that say they want to add a dual spec option at some point. So threads arguing for a dual spec are pretty pointless. It's a moot point...you're arguing for something they already plan to add. We'll get one, it's just going to take some time. As for the PVE/PVP thing, there don't seem to be many players who really enjoy playing both....it's generally one or the other.

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An idea that might appease everyone is if dual spec was limited to availability only when hitting level 50.

 

For the most part if you are at end level playing endgame content, you're playing in raids where loot isn't Free For All, therefore the need rolling isn't an issue. The loot rolling is at the discretion of the raid/guild leader.

 

I'd prefer to have dual spec available much earlier while leveling, but if they wanted to implement some kind of "Specialist" quest-line or trainable ability that activates dual spec at 50, I'd be fine with that.

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What's stopping people now from rolling need on stuff for their alts/companions? I understand your concern but this isn't really a valid argument. There will always be some people that roll need when they themselves can't use it.

 

There is nothing stopping people from doing that NOW without dual specs. There is NO argument that supports not having a dual spec that holds any water. From a player perspective, if you don't like it.. don't use it. How does that change how YOU play the game? What do you really care what class or spec I am playing?

 

From a developer point of view, it stops people from not having to make multiple characters to play different roles. If you have to spend more time leveling 2 characters instead of one, you play longer, spending more money. Oh... wait.. I think I see why they don't have dual spec now.

 

Yes, you can always respec, but from what I have seen that costs a lot of money as you do it more often. I don't have a problem with a major respec every once in a while and paying for it, but if you are switching 10-20 times a day based on what role you want to play, that's going to get expensive, and just plain inconvenient.

 

It's all about the money folks... don't kid yourself.

Edited by Flyjedi
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There is already a respeccing system in place, so what I'm hearing is you want full-time access to switching between two or three specs on the fly.

 

I definitely see this as a plus, and don't see why it won't be added at some point.

 

Two would be sufficient, though. Three is excessive.

 

The only concern I have with systems like this, is that it dilutes the consequence of choice. It would be great to do everything at any time, but it makes the choice of choosing a spec seem sort of pointless.

 

As long as it's a dual-spec option and there is some penalty (a 1hr CD, cost, etc.), I think it would be healthy for the game.

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Dual-speccing (or triple-speccing) is definitely *not* a "must." It's a convenience feature, plain and simple. The game is perfectly playable as one class and one spec, and there are several options if you want to switch.

 

It's a "nice-to-have" for a lot of people, sure? But a necessity? No way.

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Dual-speccing (or triple-speccing) is definitely *not* a "must." It's a convenience feature, plain and simple. The game is perfectly playable as one class and one spec, and there are several options if you want to switch.

 

It's a "nice-to-have" for a lot of people, sure? But a necessity? No way.

 

That is true from a single player perspective, from a server or guild perspective long term game survivability, yes, it is a must in my humble opinion.

 

ever been in a guild where natural attrition makes the guild lose a great healer or tank, how hard is it to recruit another well geared, and trusted tank?

 

If you have dual specs you can gear up backup players for those positions and move them in accordingly.

Edited by TrikkiOne
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The only reason i agree is the fact that there is PvP on the fly. Personally there is a huge difference between a pvp healer spec and a PvE healer spec. The there is a bigger difference between the PvP healer spec and the Hybrid DD/Healer spec.

 

Also re spec prices are CRAZY, 4 re specs and it costs 30,000. One more and it's over 100,000. Also to anyone saying don't respec, I wanted to try all the specs But I effectively can't have a pvp spec and a pve spec due to the prices.

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That is true from a single player perspective, from a server or guild perspective long term game survivability, yes, it is a must in my humble opinion.

 

ever been in a guild where natural attrition makes the guild lose a great healer or tank, how hard is it to recruit another well geared, and trusted tank?

 

If you have dual specs you can gear up backup players for those positions and move them in accordingly.

 

Respecs are still in place. If your guild needs a tank or healer to account for players moving on to other guilds then someone can respec to that build and cover the loss. Personally if I were running the guild I would want someone who was proficient at that role, not someone who flip-flopped back and forth.

 

I am personally against the idea of dual specs but that is probably because I am used to the older games where you built a reputation as a solid tank, awesome healer or uber dps. I would rather be known as "Razhah, that great combat medic" than "Razhah, the dps guy who can also heal ok if we need him to".

 

I will be ok with it if they add dual spec in the game. It won't be something that causes me to cry elephant tears and threaten to cancel my sub or anything but I think it waters down a characters/players identity.

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The only reason i agree is the fact that there is PvP on the fly. Personally there is a huge difference between a pvp healer spec and a PvE healer spec. The there is a bigger difference between the PvP healer spec and the Hybrid DD/Healer spec.

 

Also re spec prices are CRAZY, 4 re specs and it costs 30,000. One more and it's over 100,000. Also to anyone saying don't respec, I wanted to try all the specs But I effectively can't have a pvp spec and a pve spec due to the prices.

 

There is definitely a problem when a PVE build is not compatible with PVP. I don't PVP alot and I haven't yet in SWTOR but if that is a problem then the solution may be correcting the issue with the imbalance and not by allowing dual specs, which is more of a bandaid than a fix.

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