Dual Spec is coming - but will it 'solve everything'?

[Lethality]

It doesn't matter if "dual specs" are added or not, it's just a convenience thing. You can completely re-spec right now by going to a Skill Mentor.

[sotaka]

It doesn't matter if "dual specs" are added or not, it's just a convenience thing. You can completely re-spec right now by going to a Skill Mentor.

 

It does, actually. For many, the current system is too expensive. For others, it's a matter of convenience and flexibility in the system. These are those who are 'for' it.

 

For those who are against it, they do think the penalty is a good enough deterrent to prevent too much 'class hopping', but beyon that, they enjoy the diversity and the experience you can gain by being focused into one class. That is my understanding of it, and to a point I agree.

[Marcuspasnicus]

It always starts out "we want to be able to do one roll for PvE and one for PvP".

What it turns into very quickly is "I use both specs for PvE. So we need 3 specs" when that wasnt what dual specs was even meant for.

 

If they have dual specs I hope they make it so the second one is only available in

warfronts and comes up automaticly when you enter one.

Or just make it very clear the answer is NO when the "we need 3 specs" starts showing up.

 

Who cares if we have 10 specs? How does it hurt anyone to be able to play the spec they want to play when they want to play it?

 

Itll effect me as a BH tank who has no intrest in DPS or Healing as soon as a DPS Merc rolls need on a rare tank item because once in a blue moon he'll tank for the heck of it. Granted most people arent tools bu there are enough in game as is... Already had one DPS roll need on gloves that fell of the tusken boss in Blood and Sand quest on Tatooine after we wiped several times because of fail dps face rolling...

 

I needed it for my companion tank... Now itll also be "I needed it for my off spec".

 

So by this rationale since there are dumb people who always crash thier cars and dont pay attention or do things properly all cars should only be able to go 25mph to prevent this? You cant punish everyone because a few are jerks.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Marcuspasnicus

[LeonBraun]

Itll effect me as a BH tank who has no intrest in DPS or Healing as soon as a DPS Merc rolls need on a rare tank item because once in a blue moon he'll tank for the heck of it. Granted most people arent tools bu there are enough in game as is... Already had one DPS roll need on gloves that fell of the tusken boss in Blood and Sand quest on Tatooine after we wiped several times because of fail dps face rolling...

 

I needed it for my companion tank... Now itll also be "I needed it for my off spec".

 

I had a Consular Sage in my group yesterday roll need on a blue medium armour Strength item, an item they can't even equip let alone need the strength stat for.

 

 

Playing on my Jedi Sentinel I can say I wasn't impressed. Dual specing will not make any difference to people rolling on items other people need.

[uadarth]

The game isn't enough of a cakewalk as it is. Now we will give most classes the ability to heal or tank whenever they want, and all uniqueness will go out the window. Why not just give everyone a level 50 in each class... that way they could just go with whatever they need at any moment.. no need to do anything... just hand em out.. it is essentially what is being done. Yes, adding dual spec absolutely affects others. The insanity of the "don't use it if you don't like it" mentality is way over most peoples' heads it seems.

[Nordain]

Itll effect me as a BH tank who has no intrest in DPS or Healing as soon as a DPS Merc rolls need on a rare tank item because once in a blue moon he'll tank for the heck of it. Granted most people arent tools bu there are enough in game as is... Already had one DPS roll need on gloves that fell of the tusken boss in Blood and Sand quest on Tatooine after we wiped several times because of fail dps face rolling...

 

I needed it for my companion tank... Now itll also be "I needed it for my off spec".

 

I didn't know Merc had access to a tank tree. Thanks for the tip, baws.

[sotaka]

I didn't know Merc had access to a tank tree. Thanks for the tip, baws.

 

I believe he was assuming a Cross-AC dual spec system, which many would be against.

[sotaka]

The game isn't enough of a cakewalk as it is. Now we will give most classes the ability to heal or tank whenever they want, and all uniqueness will go out the window. Why not just give everyone a level 50 in each class... that way they could just go with whatever they need at any moment.. no need to do anything... just hand em out.. it is essentially what is being done. Yes, adding dual spec absolutely affects others. The insanity of the "don't use it if you don't like it" mentality is way over most peoples' heads it seems.

EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm very tired, lol.

Edited December 25, 2011 by sotaka

[miami_heatfan]

I believe he was assuming a Cross-AC dual spec system, which many would be against.

 

Cross AC dual spec should never be implemented. That would get rid of HIGH amounts of re-playability.

[Baaddare]

This topic is not about using/not using the Dual Spec system. Please remain on point - it is about the fact that while it is useful and many people will use it (As I stated), it will not be the cure-all that people seek. I respect that many people will use it to be both DPS/Tank or Heals/DPS, etc. However, As another poster said -

 

 

This! A hundred times, THIS! Many people will have 1 PVE spec, then 1 PVP spec. This is the optimization of the usage of the Dual-Spec system for one who enjoys both.

 

 

 

As far as AA goes, I can't really comment on that. It sounds lovely, but it doesn't seem like it'd fit in well here. It means all advancement comes in at end-game, and thus the progression TO endgame suffers. I can only feel that would hurt the game overall, because people will become bored grinding on the way there.

 

 

EDIT-IN:

 

 

Ah-HAH! Now you're right there - FFXI had a great system in Merit points. It suffered from the fact that you had to pretty much MeritParty to continue the advancement, and often times people were min/maxers about these parties (Not many wanted a thief, required bard, RDM preferred, Warrior Sub Ninja preferrred.)

 

FFXI also had an interesting way of advancing. Regular with skills learned on the way, but also the diversity added via subjobs. It only fell prey to min/maxers, which hurt it, but helped in terms of efficently leveling.

 

you did notice that his coments concerning dual specking where all inregards to pve vs pvp. ie a character beign able to have a spec for pve and one for pvp. That is not the same as having a tank and dps spec or a dps an heal spec ect for pve.

[sotaka]

you did notice that his coments concerning dual specking where all inregards to pve vs pvp. ie a character beign able to have a spec for pve and one for pvp. That is not the same as having a tank and dps spec or a dps an heal spec ect for pve.

 

It's in the same vein for my point, however, and that point was that the Dual-Spec system wouldn't be a cure all. The reason I felt this post reaffirmed my point is because if you read it, you understand that instead of speccing, say Tank or Heals, the person is speccing PVP*.

 

This means that the pool of Tanks and Heals isn't at all increased. It remains consistant, and thus we will still have people complaining of 'Not enough tank/Healers', which was one of the biggest points I was making. The idea of Dual-Spec is NOT a cure-all for the problems we face. It is, indeed, something that will alleviate - but in much the case outlined, it will miss the mark and help others in different ways.

 

 

EDIT: The Star represents where I changed the word 'DPS' to 'PVP', incorrect word used.

Edited December 25, 2011 by sotaka

[sotaka]

This is mostly a shameless bump, however-

 

Cross AC dual spec should never be implemented. That would get rid of HIGH amounts of re-playability.

 

I don't really agree too much with this statement. The Core classes remain the same regardless of which AC you go, though the specializations are fun in their own regard.

 

Replayability is what you make of it. This game is about 20% class-quests, and 80% quests when it comes to the Story, and so that replayability of 20% isn't enough for me to want to roll a second AC. I'm not saying they need an AC Dual-spec system, but I am debating against the point that people would lose replayability by such a system.

 

The issue with the statement, in essence, is that I don't feel doing quests again adds to replayability. You're very likely to want to do each story twice -

 

Once as Light Side.

Once as Dark Side.

 

Once you've done the major story elements as Light and Dark, you've seen most of your classes content. For class-quests, the AC system is nice if you choose to level up two different characters. However, once you've done that on one character, you've seen all of the 80% I mentioned...

 

It's very similar to the feeling people get from doing FlashPoint: Black Talon. "I've seen this a hundred times - just spacebar through it!" I often don't, but for random quests where I'm alone, I've spacebarred a couple because I was on my third/fourth time.

[Grunnd]

Pretty much all these complaints are related to PuGs

 

Make friends and join a guild.

 

Problem(s) solved.

[sotaka]

Pretty much all these complaints are related to PuGs

 

Make friends and join a guild.

 

Problem(s) solved.

 

While you may have guilds that are sometimes/often willing to run instances, many smaller guilds suffer from the problem of lack of people willing to help, especially in major roles. Others start to become focused on solely Raiding - and so many tanks/healers in your guild at level 50 might not want to go back and 'run dungouns' to help you.

 

This is the slow advancement of players, and the only real way to alleviate it is to get more people who ENJOY being a tank/healer, or to support the people who already enjoy it in their endeavors.

 

I appreciate your statement, I really do, as a strong community will ALWAYS be the best boost to a game. As a traditional FFXI, who used to spend anywhere from 10min to 3 hours looking for group, I understand exactly what you mean.

[Kharik]

Of course it's not a cure-all. Nothing is ever a cure-all. But it's a step in the right direction.

[sotaka]

Of course it's not a cure-all. Nothing is ever a cure-all. But it's a step in the right direction.

 

Very reasonable statement. That was really the main focus of the post, is to point out that this won't be a cure-all. Sooner or later, problems can be fixed, but this is one of the glaring ones of MMO's that regardless of how hard you work, continues to loom over you.

 

What do you believe, after creating a Dual-Spec system, would be another step in the right direction? Do you agree that we, as players, need to take some accountability for the environment we have created? Our own attitude damns us more than one would think. If we simply choose to treat other with respect and help eachother, I think there would be more tanks/Healers, because they wouldn't feel the weight of the world on their shoulders.

 

Beyond that, I suppose it is up to the Devs to make a class that feels fun to play.

 

I will say, however, that last night I had a lot of fun tanking on my BH PowerTech. It was my first Heroic, and it was on level on the third planet. I could hold hate just fine, but with 4 enemies using Full-Auto at the same time (Interrupting one didn't help) my HP dropped like a rock. I died once or twice in the course of the fights, but no one ever said 'boot this ****** tank' or told me off. They worked together with me to overcome the challenge, and it made the game overall more fun.

 

There was nothing stopping them from ducking out. It's just the good nature of people that will keep me playing as a tank to help others.

[Nitewolfe]

I am not going to heal or tank regardless of how many specs you make available to me!

I rather not do a zone at all than do it in a role i do not like!

In rift i kept being told make one of your role slots a bard. I always refused!

I pay my sub fee's no one else does so I am the only one that gets to decided how i play!

[darthpickles]

imo dual spec is a waste unless theyre gonna give us let us earn more skill points

[Naej]

When I player WoW, I did use my 2 specs for dps.

 

One was my raiding/party spec, the other my PvP/solo spec.

 

Personally, I'm fine both with or without dual-specs. I'd taxe my group spec ans switch a few things to make it work solo.

[kevlarto]

this is an mmo, nothing they can add will ever solve everything, to many people with allot of different ideas..

[kiddeth]

It's people like the OP hat ruin games with their constant crying that the game is not they way they wanted it to be. Well what about he people that like the game just the way it is, you do not hear us complaining because we feel that the developers have done and excellent job and have delivered on what they said they were going to do.

 

You do not hear us complain, until people like them show up wanting to ruin what we have paid our hard earned money for.

[Halacs]

Cross AC dual spec should never be implemented. That would get rid of HIGH amounts of re-playability.

 

Agreed. Only within the AC.

 

We need this for sure. Nope won't fix everything but I want to heal when I get to cap but also learn my healing on the way up.

 

So it's spend a ton of credits to respec for FP's or be punished while leveling as a healer.

[Halacs]

It's people like the OP hat ruin games with their constant crying that the game is not they way they wanted it to be. Well what about he people that like the game just the way it is, you do not hear us complaining because we feel that the developers have done and excellent job and have delivered on what they said they were going to do.

 

You do not hear us complain, until people like them show up wanting to ruin what we have paid our hard earned money for.

 

 

It's people like you that kill games by fighting change that others want and not allowing evolution of said game. See what I did?

 

Look, this is an MMO not a single player game. Other people pay as well and would like the playing experience to fit them to, not just YOU. Dual spec is coming by the way....

 

Somone already said it, no matter what they do some people will not like it.

[Kreegrr]

I was just about to post about how I'm missing multi specc'ing..

 

I think multi spec should be the norm these days.. I know it's coming but there's resistance by a few... For me it's all about choice, if you dont like it, it's simple, dont use it and be happy re-rolling another toon or whatever grinds your gears

 

I like my toon and It's great that he can do all these things, I'm not a alt-aholic.

 

So Bioware definitely gets my vote, yes to multi spec! Make it so, engage, to infinity and beyond and whatnot. lol

[Mannic]

There's no ideal solution, OP. You have to weigh one solution against another and decide which one has the better impact on your game.

 

The positives of dual spec and people being able to more readily find groups outweighs the occasional dispute over gear. People don't quit a game because they ran into some random rolling need on everything. They do quit games where they can never find a group in a reasonable amount of time because there are not nearly enough tanks and healers. The thing you forgot to mention about Rift was that there's never been a game where you could so easily find groups for expert content. When I was on my rogue, if we couldn't find a tank, I would spec for tank and throw on my tanking kit. If we couldn't find heals, my GF would switch to her Chloro spec and heal. No fuss, no worries, and we went about our business of having fun actually playing the game.

 

Sitting around spamming "GLF Healer!" is WAY worse than the occasional spat over gear drops. And when a game makes it easy to find groups, the effects of not getting your gear on a run is mitigated by the fact that you can easily find a group and run the content again if you're THAT determined to get a piece of gear.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Mannic