Not sure they play their own game?

[FourPawnBenoni]

In a similar fashion, we weren’t happy with how long it took to level from 1 to 55 in the pre-3.0 game. In order to speed up the low-level game, all enemies from level 50 and lower are no longer as tough, and now die faster

 

My only comment on this is that it is just another example that they don't play the game. Not only are they clueless on balance; but they are clueless on leveling. Killing monsters isn't the problem. If you want to speed up leveling increase speeders to 200% minimum....90% of my time leveling is driving across Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, etc.

 

Reducing the killing time takes a lot of the fun from challenge of defeating tough opponents....but truthfully if you're just trying to level you can avoid a lot of the mobs and so the main issue is travel time.

[Grayseven]

It has been mentioned before. The current speeder cap is due to a tech limit, not any sort of "game balance".

 

Since the game loads areas as you travel you can run into instances where you get "rubber-banding". Anyone that played SWG in the early days can tell you this really, really sucked. At times, you couldn't get anywhere without pausing every time you snapped back while traveling to let the client and server catch up to one another.

 

This was brought up during the Chicago Cantina event. The Dev's would like to increase speeds, but it just isn't possible at this time.

 

And before someone brings up the speed of taxi's...it's two different things. Taxi travel is a server side thing. The actual movement is really nothing more than a time sink and the server doesn't care if your client gets behind since you are basically outside of the normal environment while taxi traveling. Nothing in the environment can affect you.

[Gigabolt]

DoTs, Interrupts, and Channels

In order to make Damage-over-Time Disciplines more viable in Warzones and Warzone Arenas, player DoTs can no longer be cleansed.

 

These guys just kill me.

[Kremsau]

90% of my time leveling is driving across Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, etc.

 

I love time spent navigating the planets. Nowhere else do they really capture the feel of exploration.

[Darth_Wicked]

I love time spent navigating the planets. Nowhere else do they really capture the feel of exploration.

 

Right you are, good Sir.

 

There's a reason I like to go everywhere, while leveling, on foot.

[NogueiraA]

I agree.

500% would be enough to make leveling less painful.

[menofhorror]

I don´t doubt that they don´t play their game as much as many players here. But isn´t it obvious? When working on a game during the whole week you and already spending like every time on it it`s only normal to not be as engaged in playing it. They also work on the game you know.

[BrianDavion]

It has been mentioned before. The current speeder cap is due to a tech limit, not any sort of "game balance".

 

Since the game loads areas as you travel you can run into instances where you get "rubber-banding". Anyone that played SWG in the early days can tell you this really, really sucked. At times, you couldn't get anywhere without pausing every time you snapped back while traveling to let the client and server catch up to one another.

 

This was brought up during the Chicago Cantina event. The Dev's would like to increase speeds, but it just isn't possible at this time.

 

And before someone brings up the speed of taxi's...it's two different things. Taxi travel is a server side thing. The actual movement is really nothing more than a time sink and the server doesn't care if your client gets behind since you are basically outside of the normal environment while taxi traveling. Nothing in the environment can affect you.

 

and before someone uses this to complain about the engine, this is a common problem to ALL MMOs and restricts their mount speed. you see it in every other MMO. it's just a little more apparent with SW as well.. speeders

[Sindariel]

and before someone uses this to complain about the engine, this is a common problem to ALL MMOs and restricts their mount speed. you see it in every other MMO. it's just a little more apparent with SW as well.. speeders

 

Not in RIFT. Mount speed goes up to 200% there without any gamebreaking issues (was 110% too in vanilla game).

The only issue with mount speed you come across there, is that you make 20m jumps everytime you ride over a small pepple on the ground. Ground collision ftw.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sindariel

[Deewe]

It has been mentioned before. The current speeder cap is due to a tech limit, not any sort of "game balance".

I'd be interested to read the devs quote on that because while you would have a point on taxis the game is able to draw the npcs and players characters. At least on my rig and network connection.

 

And some of the taxis are quite fast.

 

And the OP is right levelling speed is hammered by travel issues for turning in missions, training, shopping and moving to the quest location.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Deewe

[Grayseven]

I'd be interested to read the devs quote on that because while you would have a point on taxis the game is able to draw the npcs and players characters. At least on my rig and network connection.

 

And some of the taxis are quite fast.

 

Yes it does, but it doesn't get all of them before you fly past them and, more importantly, the server doesn't care where your client is showing you at.

 

If you time a taxi flight, you'll notice that it is always the same length of time between points. You'll also notice that the taxi slows down and speeds up at times. And finally, you'll notice that there is a significant delay when you land before you are able to begin moving.

 

This is all because the server knows exactly where you are on that flight, but the client doesn't always keep up...and it doesn't have to since nothing in the game world can interact with you, nor you with it, while you are in flight on a taxi.

 

On a speeder, it's a different story. The client and server are constantly communicating to make sure both have you in the same location because you can interact with the world. In the early days of SWG you'd often zip past a point only to snap back hundreds of meters to find yourself in combat because the client and server were not on the same page as far as your location.

 

WoW has some faster flight than any game I've seen, but the graphics are (or were, they seem to have improved) pretty basic compared to some games. Blizzard has also had a decade to tweak the code and hardware and has had a large enough income to pay large teams to do so continuously. Rendering time is probably a large consideration but I am just speculating on that as the discussions I've heard about speeder speeds didn't get that in-depth into the problem outside of it being hardware tech issues.

 

As hardware on both sides of the game improves and communication speed increases, you'll see speed improvements. I have no idea how long that would be or even if it's something they are worried about at the moment.

[DeLaaNie]

My only comment on this is that it is just another example that they don't play the game. Not only are they clueless on balance; but they are clueless on leveling. Killing monsters isn't the problem. If you want to speed up leveling increase speeders to 200% minimum....90% of my time leveling is driving across Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, etc.

 

Reducing the killing time takes a lot of the fun from challenge of defeating tough opponents....but truthfully if you're just trying to level you can avoid a lot of the mobs and so the main issue is travel time.

 

I especially detest the quests wherein the quest giver makes you return to her to say something she could have said via a holocall, then to make you go all the way back to complete a quest. We have holotransmitters; frickin' use 'em!

 

What I find sad is that the speeders start at 90% and only go to 110% but the dang rocket boots are 150% just like Force Speed. 200% would be a bare minimum.

[GadgetDon]

If they want to speed things up, how about starting with all taxis unlocked? Current system makes no story sense. "We've sent you to this planet, you much accomplish your task or the Republic/Empire is doomed and there's no time to waste. We've set up a series of transport stations around on the planet - but you'll have to find each station to unlock it because thrill of discovery and all that. Hurry, if you delay we're all doomed!"

[Hebruixe]

I was pretty disgusted by this particular nerf. There's no justification for it. Faceroll easy =/= fun. It's boring. WoW ruined its leveling experience with this type of nerf...SWTOR cannot afford to make the same mistake, as most of its appeal lies in the levleing experience!

[Fergz]

One way they can speed up travel is to have all taxi points unlocked ahead of time and all QT terms unlocked already and the timer reduced to 5 minutes. That will help us all get where we need to be faster.

 

And instead of making the mobs easier, make less of them. There are so many trash mobs in class missions it real slows down the process

[Damask_Rose]

I especially detest the quests wherein the quest giver makes you return to her to say something she could have said via a holocall, then to make you go all the way back to complete a quest. We have holotransmitters; frickin' use 'em!

 

/e shakes fist at General Garza. Use your holoterminal you old windbag!

[DimmuJanKaarl]

It has been mentioned before. The current speeder cap is due to a tech limit, not any sort of "game balance".

 

And just as with the other times it has been mentioned, I call BS. First, speeder speed set aside, having leveled 8 toons with the 12x xp buff, it was more painfully obvious than ever before that the devs went to great lengths to multiply travel time by whole orders of magnitude by making speeder travel as long and painfully circuitous as possible. No I'm not asking for complete map redesigns, but shifting some rocks out of the way on alderaan or adding some paths on tatooine wouldn't be all that difficult. And map modifications aside, it absolutely would be a worthwhile endevour on the devs' part to not only have all taxi locations and even quick travel terminals unlocked on every planet right from the start, how about add a few and keep things less sparse (again, I'm looking at Alderaan, especially imp side). Also, why not make every taxi ride like what was implemented on Makeb? Fade out, fade in; you're there.

 

Ostensible technology limits and other red herrings aside, the real reason none of this happens is that the devs have an unhealthy, out-moded, fetish-like obsession with extreme time sinks in this game. The time sink model they follow simply isn't needed anymore with the advent of the freemium revenue model: players spend time in the game because they *want* to be there, with more and more shiny things catching their attention; not because they are *forced* to be there because they are patiently waiting to move onto the next bit with nothing happening in between. If anything, having my hand held and spoon feeding me content and forcing me to sit and stare at the screen for (as is the case with at least one alderaan taxi route) as much as 6 or 7 minutes or more in one go is only another reason for me to throw my hands up, say **** it, and log off and find something more engaging to do. And i certainly am not blowing wads of RL money in the cash shop while I'm doing it

[Grayseven]

And just as with the other times it has been mentioned, I call BS. First, speeder speed set aside, having leveled 8 toons with the 12x xp buff, it was more painfully obvious than ever before that the devs went to great lengths to multiply travel time by whole orders of magnitude by making speeder travel as long and painfully circuitous as possible. No I'm not asking for complete map redesigns, but shifting some rocks out of the way on alderaan or adding some paths on tatooine wouldn't be all that difficult. And map modifications aside, it absolutely would be a worthwhile endevour on the devs' part to not only have all taxi locations and even quick travel terminals unlocked on every planet right from the start, how about add a few and keep things less sparse (again, I'm looking at Alderaan, especially imp side). Also, why not make every taxi ride like what was implemented on Makeb? Fade out, fade in; you're there.

 

Ostensible technology limits and other red herrings aside, the real reason none of this happens is that the devs have an unhealthy, out-moded, fetish-like obsession with extreme time sinks in this game. The time sink model they follow simply isn't needed anymore with the advent of the freemium revenue model: players spend time in the game because they *want* to be there, with more and more shiny things catching their attention; not because they are *forced* to be there because they are patiently waiting to move onto the next bit with nothing happening in between. If anything, having my hand held and spoon feeding me content and forcing me to sit and stare at the screen for (as is the case with at least one alderaan taxi route) as much as 6 or 7 minutes or more in one go is only another reason for me to throw my hands up, say **** it, and log off and find something more engaging to do. And i certainly am not blowing wads of RL money in the cash shop while I'm doing it

 

Believe what you want. Over a decade of beta testing and numerous discussions with various developers on travel speeds in games being tested...not to mention seeing first hand the hell of rubber banding...allow me to understand that it isn't so simple. Rubber banding is one of the most frustrating things I've ever dealt with in a game and I'd rather have to run than deal with that garbage.

 

As far as game design goes, yeah they could probably make it easier but when does it stop? With what you are saying, you'd be happy with a straight line road with waypoints and taxis at equidistant points along that straight path. That isn't game design.

 

Show me one game out there without time sinks. They exist, they will always exist and no amount of whining will make them go away...considering without them people would be whining even more when they blow through the content and find they have nothing to do until the next update.

 

You can try to bring F2P into it, but since the F2P crowd is transient anyway no amount of "making things easier" will keep them around longer.

 

Honestly, if a little bit of travel bothers you then no amount of changes to the travel model will make you happy.

[SaveTheMonkeys]

You're doing forums wrong, Grayseven - you're not supposed to actually know what you're talking about.

Seriously though, thanks for your explanation. I learned something today!

[Savej]

and before someone uses this to complain about the engine, this is a common problem to ALL MMOs and restricts their mount speed. you see it in every other MMO. it's just a little more apparent with SW as well.. speeders

 

City of Heroes/Villains had ppl running 60 mph (superspeed), jumping and/or flying all over the maps. That created problems, especially in pvp (which wasn't in the game initially), but it basically worked very well for travel - it was fun, too (I remember no rubber-banding in that game tho I'm sure there was some). That game was released over ten years ago... AC1 also had faster running (if you put points into running) than vehicles move here and it also had high/crazy jumps (if you put points into jumping). It's like MMO engines are starting to go backwards instead of forwards in terms of player/environment interactions, environment size and character control. Other games with fast travel that I've played - Defiance, DCUO, Champions.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Savej

[Kratier]

i disagree with OP

[Darth_Advent]

The previous comments about the technical difficulties involved with mapping and travel time notwithstanding, I do agree that the difference in leveling time will not likely be something I can notice. Most of my leveling stalls are due to checking out all of the dialog options, which is why I just barely failed to finish the Smuggler's class story during the 12xp event.

 

I don't think weakening pre-51 enemies will really make much difference unless they do something drastic like downgrade them all by a full toughness category and turn the plurality of mobs into "weak" types.

[GadgetDon]

City of Heroes/Villains had ppl running 60 mph (superspeed), jumping and/or flying all over the maps. That created problems, especially in pvp (which wasn't in the game initially), but it basically worked very well for travel - it was fun, too (I remember no rubber-banding in that game tho I'm sure there was some). That game was released over ten years ago... AC1 also had faster running (if you put points into running) than vehicles move here and it also had high/crazy jumps (if you put points into jumping). It's like MMO engines are starting to go backwards instead of forwards in terms of player/environment interactions, environment size and character control. Other games with fast travel that I've played - Defiance, DCUO, Champions.

 

To be fair, City of Heroes had very limited zones with hard loading times as you moved from zone to zone. Once you land on, say, Hoth, you can travel huge distances and cover massive amounts of territory without seeing a loading screen.

[Apeth]

Right you are, good Sir.

 

There's a reason I like to go everywhere, while leveling, on foot.

 

Right on DW me to, I think they chose the best option if they wanted to speed things up. Mind you I am not convinced they needed to speed it up just yet, but then I'm old school.

[Savej]

To be fair, City of Heroes had very limited zones with hard loading times as you moved from zone to zone. Once you land on, say, Hoth, you can travel huge distances and cover massive amounts of territory without seeing a loading screen.

 

Yes, well - released in 2004 - loading screens. Some of CoH's zones were plenty big, though - they just seemed smaller because we could go 60 mph and they were squarish instead of long rectangles. But please, SWTOR doesn't win any prizes for large, open, explorable zones or minimal loading screens.

 

If I had to deal with more loading screens in exchange for the ability to fly and have different/better/faster vehicles I would. But other newer games have tackled that problem well enough - Defiance, DCUO and even Champions. I kinda wish this game had any of those engines instead of the one it has, actually.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Savej