bgstranger Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I've got a Meltdown run with my sorc healer and got marauder in the group who constantly steals aggro. I pull him twice during the boss fights and after we finished, he ask me to never use extrication on MDPS. Now, maybe he's right - it might be annoying interrupt for some big casting dps abiility, but it's a threat drop after all. I never blame healers for pulling me when i dps. So, what do you think - should i stop using it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) on my Sage and Sorc, I use this regularly... not to mitigate their aggro, as tbh that is something the tank needs to handle and is better equipped to handle. I do it (and am VERY happy to do it) when: 1. They are standing in stupid. 2. They are attacking the wrong thing (generally I stand next to the thing they should be attacking and pull them to it and say something useful in chat as a prompt, like: "Kill this one". 3. They are standing just outside the pool of healing I have dropped and they need heals. Sometimes, which is the most infuriating, is when I've moved to their position to drop the heal (so I can get on the force restore cycle) and they move out it!!! I mean, come on! Its a huge shame that I can only do this once (or twice!) per fight, as when you do need it - you tend to need it ALOT. As far as using it to mitigate their aggro... idk, concentrate on your primary task and, if that should mean they die, so be it?? I know its not a solution to the fight itself, but it may help in getting to the solution YOUR group needs. I can remember countless times when a dps has removed themselves (or been removed) from a group because of being forced to comply with the group strategy (you know... doing it "properly") and I struggle to think of a time when either the refill or just 3-manning the remainder of the fp hasn't been more pleasurable and successful. I do have a 47k Nadia, though, so she might account for the difference! Edited December 1, 2014 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgstranger Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) 1. They are standing in stupid. I think this is the general problem with extrication. Some ppl things they're PRO, so nobody can't move them and tell them what to do. They get it simple as an abuse. My case was with boss with the spores at meltdown. Mara gets the aggro before Enhanced Vrblther gets to the egg and pull the dog in the middle. So i pull him by the spore where i was standing. Second time was at Vigilant and i pull him simply cuz i was standing next to the tank and the mara was taking him 30 m from us. Healing when you're in 180 gets real boring in fps, so i can do a lot of things to improve the run while everyone is toped. Or maybe i shouldn't do anything else, idk... Edited December 1, 2014 by bgstranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) No, I agree... if you are OP for an instance, then using that extra capacity is good... its group orientated, its a GOOD THING and don't let any dullard say otherwise or discourage you. We all do things incorrectly from time to time... like pulling the tank rather than the dps, that's a oops moment... but its the intention behind it. And as long as you explain the intention, I don't think any right minded person can complain. I did have a sniper complain in Athiss once, on the steps to the bonus boss... and after moving him, he wrote something along the lines of: "*** healer, I was channeling, why you do that?" - my initial response was (as usual in combat) - "sorry mate, bit busy right now, moment pls" and when he realised there was one of those tough jedi bstards behind him, he said thank you and Ii didn't need to explain. This game CAN be VERY confrontational... explain your intentions if they question you - most will understand, those that don't... well, w/e. Personally, depending on how it goes, I will throw in mob targets, move the dps about, all sorts... generally make it more likely we, as a group, will be successful sooner, rather than later. When the role of healer is required, which it mostly is, that's one thing... that doesn't mean you are just there to heal though, especially when in an OP group. Edited December 1, 2014 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgstranger Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Yeah, conversation is important =) He was not rude or something, and after i telling him that i do this not for fun, but for the threat drop, he tells me that it his job to manage he's threat. I think extrication will be better without the pulling, just the drop. As we speaking about the "oops" moments - when i tank CZ Labs, theres always some sage which pulls me out of the water while i'm running to get aggro on one of the adds. Result is - no aggro on adds and lost one on boss. But they think that they're doing something good and i always explain after the fight why they shouldn't do this in that situation. And not to mention that "joking" pulls - while we running through the corridors between the trash and someone pulls me while i'm using my rocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Just remembered another time when it is good to use the sage/sorc pull... Tactical FP's... when you see a dps getting low on health, pull him to the kolto terminal. I generally park myself by one for when I get into the Noble Sacrifice cycle and rather than use my instant self heal, in the tfp I use the kolto, if I need to. So rather than waste my effort healing them explicitly, I start my force to health routine, pull the dps in and heal the pair of us - some of them get with it and even click the kolto terminal themselves - BONUS! Edited December 1, 2014 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardimuer Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I think this is the general problem with extrication. Some ppl things they're PRO, so nobody can't move them and tell them what to do. They get it simple as an abuse. My case was with boss with the spores at meltdown. Mara gets the aggro before Enhanced Vrblther gets to the egg and pull the dog in the middle. So i pull him by the spore where i was standing. Second time was at Vigilant and i pull him simply cuz i was standing next to the tank and the mara was taking him 30 m from us. Healing when you're in 180 gets real boring in fps, so i can do a lot of things to improve the run while everyone is toped. Or maybe i shouldn't do anything else, idk... Your mistake is in thinking that Extricating a dps just to lower his agro is "improving the run." When I am on my sorc healer I would only lower someone's agro with Extricate if that person was going to die from having agro or if the group was about to wipe and no taunts were available to fix the situation. At all other times, the small agro dump from Extrication is unnecessary and interrupting the DPS is just going to make the fight last longer. So in your case, doing an HM 55 FP in full 180 gear, you should leave the job of managing agro to the tank since you'll never have issues keeping the group alive in the situations you described. Edited December 1, 2014 by Gardimuer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Is basically the difference between intention and execution. As long as it's beneficial and not weirdly risky, good intentions are good. Poor execution is just that... it happens. Only problem being when dps do it, no ones notices, when tanks do it, no one really notices (some dps do, but only when it affects them)... when healers do it... people get kicked, groups fall apart, bills need paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Your mistake is in thinking that Extricating a dps just to lower his agro is "improving the run." When I am on my sorc healer I would only lower someone agro with extricate if that person was going to die from having agro or if the group was about to wipe and no taunts were available to fix the situation. At all other times, the small agro dump from Extrication is unnecessary and interrupting the DPS is just going to make the fight last longer. So in your case, doing an HM 55 FP in full 180 gear, you should leave the job of managing agro to the tank since you'll never have issues keeping the group alive in the situations you described. Agreed from a tactical perspective in the moment in the fight... strategically, before and after the fight it is something that needs resolving though, as it cant go on like that... but in the moment, this is something that needs to be dealt with by the tank, imho - healer can get involved from a bubble/heal/triage perspective, but not from a mitigation perspective - way too much going on at that point to be able to predict any outcome accurately imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I can't believe you all forgot the best use for Extrication.... The suicidal murder!!! You jump down a ledge and pull the group leader with you!!! Almost as good as forcing a leaper to jump to his death by knocking his target down a ledge while he is leaping!!!!!!! Troll between Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I can't believe you all forgot the best use for Extrication.... The suicidal murder!!! You jump down a ledge and pull the group leader with you!!! Almost as good as forcing a leaper to jump to his death by knocking his target down a ledge while he is leaping!!!!!!! Troll between lol, I prefer to use my sprint and force wave on a mob for that - takes them both out and leaves me standing. The sentry guards on the CZ Meltdown is ideal for this... done right, you can take out 2 mobs and 2 mara/sentinels. Elegant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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