Scoundrel/Operative 3.0

[Haystak]

Devs released the new patch notes for Op/Scp

Scoundrel/Operative 3.0 Release

 

Now that we can actually talk about the actual changes, instead of dancing around them, hoping to not get a thread shut down.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Haystak

[Haystak]

First impression is, we are losing more than gaining in terms of utility DPS wise. healers sound like they are getting hit with a two handed nerf-hammer. They spent just about as much time describing their new ability, than they did stating that operatives were being brought back in line with other healers.

 

Personally I didnt enjoy playing a healer, and dont really identify with it, but if I saw this patch note towards any of the classes I do enjoy playing, I would be disheartened. I just dont think its good marketing, to tell a bunch of people for their expansion, "your getting nerfed"....but thats just me.

 

DPS Scrapper:

 

where to begin, where to begin. Well ill start out with the fact that we lose the ability to heal ourselves, besides diagnostic scan, kolto-shot, and SRMP. Which to me is a large hit to our utility. Currently if we find ourselves in a bind we roll away, prefereably behind some los, and spurt out a couple heals....seems reasonable, was actually a decent mechanic in reg warzones, but not really applicable to arenas, where their are no real breaks to go heal up.

 

Now we are faced with an escape mechanic, which may or maynot bring us out of combat, and the impending reality that if we happen to get stuck in combat, that we will have to either sit out for a bit, and wait for combat to drop, or we can wait two eternities from our SRMP to get us back up, both of which could last equally long on live.

 

This actually makes me scratch my head. Before, we were given escape mechanics, so we could run, and "heal to full". Now we escape to.....i dont know....contemplate life....

 

overall I am not sure how removing UWM helps with balancing, and Im hoping its step 1 to a 2 step process, and we see some adjustments later down the road, as a lot of the reasoning that we werent able to be balanced around arenas, is because we could heal to full. Now that heal to full is gone, im hoping something changes in the near future. I am hoping all trees get access to the free kolto shot on a roll like dirty fighting gets, that would be the only saving grace that I can fathom right now, as that and SRMP will could be a decent combo, for extended matches.

 

They gave scrappers an ability that prevents movement and turning for 4 seconds. If you can get the full 4 seconds, this will be a big deal, but you also have to remember that the blind area for players now is 90 degrees(down from 180)m which means you really need to be behind them to prevent an attack. Also a lot of classes now have an on demand ability that gives root/snare immunity, so even then you may or may not get to use that ability very often to its full effect. Combine that with tendon shots two second root however, and this actually may change some encounters.

 

According to the patch notes, the new ability that has the same cooldown as blasterwhip says nothing about giving a stack of upper hand. So with that Im assuming it doesnt, which means your going to have to swap between the two in your rotation....should be fun for pve atleast, problematic for pvp as interuptions to a complex rotation has always resulted in defeat.

 

Utility wise scrapper still looks weak, but maybe when all the stats come out, and the dust settle that need for utility will not really be needed, but im dubious as to the capabilities of the class just off the patch notes.

 

Ruffian is kind of new. Seems like its a different class mostly, as a lot of the rotation I use to use, is now obsolete. Im optomistic about it, and cant find anything to really hate about the changes(and believe me, I always try to find what I dont like about patch notes now a days)

Edited November 26, 2014 by Haystak

[Zunamii]

Hard to say if I like the changes. If I can't compete with my own vanguard I won't be happy, because scoundrel is such a fun class to play, I will most likely never be a fan of the Dirty fighting aka Ruffian because I don't like that playstyle so much.

 

10% crit chance to the raid is good, shank shot looks good, blood boiler dmg bonus will make up the loss from upper hand. The best changes overall will be fletched round as a passive and more AOE. Blaster volley is a awesome aoe skill now if used correct, and with 3.0 it will be even better. the weakness of the blaster volley is that it got such a close range so the mobs will need to be stacked quite close and you will have to be in melee range. (unlike vanguard grenade)

 

I don't like the new utillities that's the biggest dissapointment . Which utilitties scrapper will get from Ruffian will be interesting to see

 

Please tell me what scoundrels/operatives think about this update.

[Guiltybydesign]

First impression is, we are losing more than gaining in terms of utility DPS wise. healers sound like they are getting hit with a two handed nerf-hammer. They spent just about as much time describing their new ability, than they did stating that operatives were being brought back in line with other healers.

 

Personally I didnt enjoy playing a healer, and dont really identify with it, but if I saw this patch note towards any of the classes I do enjoy playing, I would be disheartened. I just dont think its good marketing, to tell a bunch of people for their expansion, "your getting nerfed"....but thats just me.

 

As an Op healer that has just come back to the game after over a years absence I don't even feel like playing anymore. I don't see where the Op healing has changed at all since I left and we were not considered OP back then. So I fail to see why we need a nerf now. I was really looking forward to the patch considering every other class has gotten some really cool things and all my patch preview said was get ready for an EXTREME nerf. Great...

Edited November 26, 2014 by Guiltybydesign

[Belecfaron]

Imperial Education: Increases the critical chance of Kolto Infusion, Backstab, and Lethal Strike by 15%.

 

Annoying that. Stat prioritization is going to change from Cunning-centric to raw stats. For the rest, well it wouldn't be a SWTOR patch if it didn't nerf Operatives.

 

Also one of the devs seems to have an obscene fascination with Carbine Burst. I get that it is meant to be similar to the function of FiB/DF for Balance/Madness but the opportunity costs and clunkiness of the skill mean that it will not get used.

 

EDIT: Carbine Burst is a horrible ability and attaching our DOT spreading ability to it is a horrible idea. Fragmentation grenade or even better, Corrosive Grenade (sniper Lethality) would be far better ideas. Carbine Burst is a high cost skill in both energy and TA, and requires a specific positioning that no other DOT spec has to deal with.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Belecfaron

[QuiveringPotato]

Annoying that. Stat prioritization is going to change from Cunning-centric to raw stats. For the rest, well it wouldn't be a SWTOR patch if it didn't nerf Operatives.

 

Also one of the devs seems to have an obscene fascination with Carbine Burst. I get that it is meant to be similar to the function of FiB/DF for Balance/Madness but the opportunity costs and clunkiness of the skill mean that it will not get used.

 

Really wish they'd just remove the TA cost of that ability.

[Hei_Atzfel]

Really wish they'd just remove the TA cost of that ability.

 

Until they do I don't care how much they buff it, I'm only using it to pop stealthers.

[Ridickilis]

Yeah, they defiantly could/should have been a bit more diplomatic about the heal changes.

 

For dps, concealment specifically, I too am little aggravated with the buff to carbine burst, I really wished they just took that ability right out of the game or made it for lethality/Ruffian only. I know it's purely an aesthetic/superficial complaint but this ability really doesn't fit a spec that was meant to get in and shiv people. I would have liked another knife attack instead of carbine burst that adds to shiv and lacerate. On the plus side I do like the fact they made acid blade a passive.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Ridickilis

[Banbite]

According to the patch notes, the new ability that has the same cooldown as blasterwhip says nothing about giving a stack of upper hand. So with that Im assuming it doesnt, which means your going to have to swap between the two in your rotation....should be fun for pve atleast, problematic for pvp as interuptions to a complex rotation has always resulted in defeat.

The tooltip about Blaster Whip didn't say anothing about granting Upper Hand either, that effect was described on the Upper Hand passive ability. So it would be really stupid if the new ability didn't grant Upper Hand.

 

But that they removed Flechette Round, that was like the coolest skill Scoundrels had, but it will help with energy.

[Tamanous]

I have very little trouble with carbine burst. I use it very effectively (if one understands how to aim it ... evidently most have no clue). The reason it is being upgraded is because we lose Orbital. It will be our primary aoe ability along side frag nade. There is also a Utility that reduces it's energy along side yet another buff to it. It will hit like a truck and we now get more TA procs than before.

 

What most players can't seem to grasp is that this class is a mix of melee and blaster abilities. They are meant to be used together. The only time one cares about an optimized melee rotation is against tough mobs and bosses in flashpoint/operations. Outside of that our rotations are very fluid especially in pvp.

 

I love the kolto probe addition. The cast heal was extremely time consuming to use and terrible energy management. We had to stop everything we were doing, get range and them cast craptastic heals. Probe allows us to continue on our dps way. Revealed in datamining (if still true) was our improved mitigation through rolling. Although losing hard cc on our opener we now can keep an enemy facing away from us longer (more like a soft lock instead of stun lock and I believe should have less impact on an enemies resolve bar ... a very good thing) while we burn our improved TA procs up.

 

I see some very nice improvements. My only concern is if we lost more than we gained overall.

 

Healing? Don't care. It has been too powerful in this game for a very long time with detrimental effects on overall game balance in pve and pvp.

[Ryuku-sama]

The tooltip about Blaster Whip didn't say anothing about granting Upper Hand either, that effect was described on the Upper Hand passive ability. So it would be really stupid if the new ability didn't grant Upper Hand.

 

But that they removed Flechette Round, that was like the coolest skill Scoundrels had, but it will help with energy.

 

Not really... They will just make Backblast cost 10 instead of being free.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[Technohic]

I'm ok with removing the Flechette round active in favor of a passive. It may have look cool but it wasn't practical. I don't really like the idea of pushing Carbine Burst here, either, and I feel like shank shot could have been a replacement for tendon shot and had the TA grant, but if the CD is longer, and with classes having ways to break roots then I guess it is good to still have tendon shot on a seperate CD.

 

 

Still; I had switched to lethality in favor over concealment some time ago and have enjoyed it and I think I like the changes to it better. Still depends on how the tree looks and what passives are where and which utilities are where. I'm a big fan of Quickening/Scurry for example. If its a utility and not a passive buried in ruffian, then options are open.

[texoc]

So? Nobody complaining about carbine burst spreading our Corrosive dart, while Snipers can spread it with Corrosive Grenade?

 

Why is the operative getting treated like this?

 

Both Warrior subclasses if able, spread their dots with Smash.

Both Assassin and Sorc Spread their dots with Deathfield!!.

Its like making the Assassin use Lacerate to spread dots, even than!!! its better than carbine burst!!

 

I freaking demand OPs to be treated equally !

[BobaFaceroll]

So? Nobody complaining about carbine burst spreading our Corrosive dart, while Snipers can spread it with Corrosive Grenade?

 

Why is the operative getting treated like this?

 

Both Warrior subclasses if able, spread their dots with Smash.

Both Assassin and Sorc Spread their dots with Deathfield!!.

Its like making the Assassin use Lacerate to spread dots, even than!!! its better than carbine burst!!

 

I freaking demand OPs to be treated equally !

 

I would complain but it won't make a difference. It's an arbitrary change just to provide unnecessary 'class differentiation' and they won't change it just because, you know, spreading with Grenede makes sense.

[Adovir]

eh, thats all there really is to say on the matter

[nickademos]

Medicine operative has been my main since launch, and I don't plan to stop now. I don't find the incoming nerf terribly concerning because I tend to agree op healers kick a little too much *** the way things are now. I spend most of my time stabbing things and dropping orb strikes while healing, and I cant even remember the last time I used my adrenaline probe. So I guess I'll have to start working at it to keep people up again, but that's OK with me I don't mind a challenge.

[Alphasgimaone]

Six of the ACs were all improved. Guess which ones weren't?

 

And not only did they manage away to screw it up (again). They went ahead and took out the best animations in the game.

 

 

Why is the operative getting treated like this?

Clearly a dev has it out for them.

 

The way the class has been treated over the last two-and-a-half years is unprecedented--not just in this game, but in MMO's in general. The only reasonable explanation is that someone has an axe to grind.

[Oragummi]

Six of the ACs were all improved. Guess which ones weren't?

 

And not only did they manage away to screw it up (again). They went ahead and took out the best animations in the game.

 

 

 

Clearly a dev has it out for them.

 

The way the class has been treated over the last two-and-a-half years is unprecedented--not just in this game, but in MMO's in general. The only reasonable explanation is that someone has an axe to grind.

 

 

I agree completely, some one high up in Bioware/EA clearly despises this class. Operative/Scoundrel used to be my favorite class in the game. Now I seriously doubt I'll ever play one again. Apparently it wasn't enough for them to nerf this class over and over and over again with every new patch. Now they've decided that the only thing left to do is utterly DESTROY the class by not only nerfing us again (with a few improvements I'll admit) but also getting rid of the only abilities we had that looked cool and gave us something other than boring "stab" and "shoot" animations. I just don't understand it; They clearly don't want anyone to play this class so why did they even bother making it in the first place. Anyway I'm really considering giving up on this game completely. I've been a subscriber since launch and have the founder title and everything. However I'm starting to think maybe I've been wasting my time with this game and maybe it's just time to quit. Not that Bioware/EA even cares if anyone leaves so long as they get their cash.

 

P.S. I realize that this post will probably attract negative attention from Fanboys and trolls alike so I'm just gonna go ahead and let all of you would be responders know that unfortunately I won't be giving any of you that attention you so desperately crave. Don't expect a response of any kind from me.

[Hei_Atzfel]

Six of the ACs were all improved. Guess which ones weren't?

 

I don't know what you're going on about, my concealment operative looks to be stronger in 3.0 than she is on live. Sure we're losing the chaining of HS/BS and Exl probe, but Vol Substance makes up for probe, so the ONLY damage we're losing is the chaining, which is minimal for the stuff we're getting. So meh, I'm happy.

[Morrolan]

I have very little trouble with carbine burst. I use it very effectively (if one understands how to aim it ... evidently most have no clue). The reason it is being upgraded is because we lose Orbital. It will be our primary aoe ability along side frag nade.

 

Isn't frag grenade losing much of its aoe?

[MrGoldsilver]

Isn't frag grenade losing much of its aoe?

 

Only for snipers

[Oragummi]

I agree completely, some one high up in Bioware/EA clearly despises this class. Operative/Scoundrel used to be my favorite class in the game. Now I seriously doubt I'll ever play one again. Apparently it wasn't enough for them to nerf this class over and over and over again with every new patch. Now they've decided that the only thing left to do is utterly DESTROY the class by not only nerfing us again (with a few improvements I'll admit) but also getting rid of the only abilities we had that looked cool and gave us something other than boring "stab" and "shoot" animations. I just don't understand it; They clearly don't want anyone to play this class so why did they even bother making it in the first place. Anyway I'm really considering giving up on this game completely. I've been a subscriber since launch and have the founder title and everything. However I'm starting to think maybe I've been wasting my time with this game and maybe it's just time to quit. Not that Bioware/EA even cares if anyone leaves so long as they get their cash.

 

P.S. I realize that this post will probably attract negative attention from Fanboys and trolls alike so I'm just gonna go ahead and let all of you would be responders know that unfortunately I won't be giving any of you that attention you so desperately crave. Don't expect a response of any kind from me.

 

Well I just watched the 3.0 changes stream and I must say I stand corrected. I should have done more research before jumping to conclusions . From what I saw I'm actually rather happy with the changes (seeing as I play concealment/scrapper). I apologize for my ignorance and to anyone who I may have upset.

[SapoDoode]

Really disappointed that they're trying to push blaster volley for dot spreading. It's a clunky ability that costs way too much for what it does. Especially when you consider how Shadow/Assassins spread their dots. Otherwise I'm happy with the changes to dirty fighting/ruffian.

 

This is my own personal preference I guess, but I was hoping that blaster whip would be replaced with a scattergun blast ability. I don't care for the "comic relief" abilities Scoundrel has- blaster whiping a giant rancor seems like it would do nothing to the rancor and would probably have a much higher chance of damaging your blaster. Our stun I can live with since it's not part of our rotation at least but blaster whip is a core ability and it just looks so silly. And for a class that's advertised as using a scattergun we really don't use it all that much.

[Tamanous]

 

This is my own personal preference I guess, but I was hoping that blaster whip would be replaced with a scattergun blast ability. I don't care for the "comic relief" abilities Scoundrel has- blaster whiping a giant rancor seems like it would do nothing to the rancor and would probably have a much higher chance of damaging your blaster. Our stun I can live with since it's not part of our rotation at least but blaster whip is a core ability and it just looks so silly. And for a class that's advertised as using a scattergun we really don't use it all that much.

 

 

This is why I prefer the blade theme behind the Operative. It just makes more sense and aligns with their class story better. The opposite is true for sniper. It doesn't fit the class story well whilst the Gunslinger fits it's role far better.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Tamanous

[Haystak]

Just got done watching the stream.

 

Very Concerned where scrapper is heading. I like the new control, but their are a few less things I can do in 3.0 that I do now. Im hoping 3.1, or 3.2 brings something more.

 

Ruffian looks like it will be fun, but I dont see anything obvious that makes it viable in ranked.

 

That said I chosen to make my scoundrel the 3rd toon I level to 60. It will most likely not be geared out for a very long time. However the chances of dps scoundrels being competetive or even fun in the next expansion are dismal for 3.0 so I dont think I would need to rush anything.

 

I wish those of you who are still maining with this class luck, you will need it. Seeya at the next patch notes.