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Game Update 3.0 Class Changes: Scoundrel + Operative


TaitWatson

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Operatives & Scoundrels will be rounding up the Discipline Blogs. We'll be streaming today all Agent/Smuggler changes.

 

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I saw the livestream and you guys knowingly admit that you know that removing shootfirst will nerf Scoundrel/OP burst damage a bit more than you might possibly intend and your remedy will be to have backblast not go on CD when used from stealth but you're going to wait until a few months after 3.0 releases to change it. Why wait? Why would you want to alienate your playerbase and make a class suffer when you know that you can make the changes now? Do you want Scoundrel/OPs dpsers to not play the game anymore, do you really like losing money? That is my only gripe with these changes is that you guys openly admit that removing shootfirst will be a problem and that you have the solution but won't implement it until 3.0 releases (Most likely a few months down the line.).

Edited by Chaos_Distortion
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Scoundrels/OPs haven't had more than one stun for months, since they removed the stun component out of KO/Shootfirst Scoundrels/OPs haven't been able to stun someone more than once. I don't know what game you're playing or what version of SWTOR you're playing but it sure isn't the live version of SWTOR.

 

- You get locked out of all your of abilities except stun break even before you even see the operative (= Sleep Dart?)

- You use your stun break ability and same thing happens again except that you now know who did it and where this player is + your stun break is on cooldown

- Lock out ends and you have just enough time to get one instant ability in if you're fast enough...

- ... until it happens again and you die.

 

Someone is cheating/hacking or I do something extremely stupid.

 

It's same thing with Deception/Infiltration except that they only need to do it twice.

Edited by Halinalle
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I saw the livestream and you guys knowingly admit that you know that removing shootfirst will nerf Scoundrel/OP burst damage a bit more than you might possibly intend and your remedy will be to have backblast not go on CD when used from stealth but you're going to wait until a few months after 3.0 releases to change it. Why wait? Why would you want to alienate your playerbase and make a class suffer when you know that you can make the changes now? Do you want Scoundrel/OPs dpsers to not play the game anymore, do you really like losing money? That is my only gripe with these changes is that you guys openly admit that removing shootfirst will be a problem and that you have the solution but won't implement it until 3.0 releases (Most likely a few months down the line.).

Bioware isn't using an engine made in-house for SWTOR. They licensed an engine from another company, and judging by some previous dev comment, it's actually a really obnoxious engine that makes it surprisingly difficult to do seemingly simple things. They might be having coding problems.

 

(This seems like an odd place to have coding problems since they could just adapt the code that resets Followthrough's cooldown on use of SoS/Ambush/Takedown/the second Snipe in a row, but I prefer to give benefit of the doubt where code is concerned.)

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Ooo i like what they've done with Scoundrel/Operative healers. Just comparing from the Dulfy Discipline Calculator:

 

Sage/Sorcerer (number of AOEs = 1) - Salvation/Revivification: 3797 over 10 s (379.7 hps) Cooldown 15 sec.

Scoundrel (number of AOEs = 2) - Kolto Waves: 4280 over 3s (1426 hps) Cooldown 10 sec.

 

I wouldn't call giving Scoundrels/Operatives another AOE a nerf lol. Especially as it's channelled and not even cast with significantly higher HPS and a shorter CD. I predict Sages will be the worst healers by a long way now. Shame as I thought they had balanced all the heal classes fairly evenly towards the end of the release. Although I do like that they've made them more static.

 

With the new ability for Sages 'Roaming Mend' I don't see it being particularly beneficial to them. Yes it replaces a lot of health but it risks getting stuck on a player not taking dmg. I would suggest it travels to the player with lowest health and gives an immediate heal to that player and 3 other players around before moving off. Kind of like a travelling Kolto Cloud/Recuperative Nanotech.

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- You get locked out of all your of abilities except stun break even before you even see the operative (= Sleep Dart?)

- You use your stun break ability and same thing happens again except that you now know who did it and where this player is + your stun break is on cooldown

- Lock out ends and you have just enough time to get one instant ability in if you're fast enough...

- ... until it happens again and you die.

 

Someone is cheating/hacking or I do something extremely stupid.

 

It's same thing with Deception/Infiltration except that they only need to do it twice.

 

Why in the world are you using your CC breaker when you are getting hit with sleep dart... that's a horrible noob move, yeah it sucks sitting there for 9 seconds if they don't attack you, but they can only hit you with sleep dart twice before you are immune, so quit using the CC breaker on that and you will be fine.

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Do Operatives need more defensive cooldowns?

 

If you ever have 1vs1 with operative it will go like this:

- Get stunned before you even see that operative

- Stabbystabby

- Get stunned again

- Stabbystabby

- Get stunned again

- Stabbystabby

- You're dead

 

Given the number of times you have been "stunned", I am surprised that you have not been unsubbed.:rod_wink_g:

 

1v1 capability does not translate into effectiveness in a Warzone. The only time that a 1v1 might matter is contesting a node, in which case burst matters more than sustained damage (unlikely, would be interrupted by reinforcements).

 

Instead, the developers' vision of sustained damage stealth suggests a continued pressure DPS in the midst of a fight, for which the Operative's defensive capabiliies give it little staying power to apply that pressure. The defensive utilities were designed around a bursty skirmisher rather than the persistent brawler that the developers are trying to make.

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1v1 capability does not translate into effectiveness in a Warzone. The only time that a 1v1 might matter is contesting a node, in which case burst matters more than sustained damage (unlikely, would be interrupted by reinforcements).

 

It does matter in warzones especially if they can prevent me from helping my team.

Edited by Halinalle
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- You get locked out of all your of abilities except stun break even before you even see the operative (= Sleep Dart?)

- You use your stun break ability and same thing happens again except that you now know who did it and where this player is + your stun break is on cooldown

- Lock out ends and you have just enough time to get one instant ability in if you're fast enough...

- ... until it happens again and you die.

 

Someone is cheating/hacking or I do something extremely stupid.

 

It's same thing with Deception/Infiltration except that they only need to do it twice.

That is a player issue, not a class issue. Using a cc breaker on things you aren't supposed to is a player problem, not a class problem. In other words, anyone using their cc breaker on things like mezzes/sleeps/2 second stuns, etc.; shouldn't be claiming that a class has too many "Stuns". That really is a player issue more than anything else, people need to learn when to use their stun break. The Devs shouldn't have to cater to people that don't know how to play the game.

Edited by Chaos_Distortion
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I LOVE my op healer. Even though it was not my first character, it has become my main. I really hope these changes are not as bad as they seem to be in actual game play. With the changes, it feels like I need to relearn Operation healing all over...ugg.
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That is a player issue, not a class issue. Using a cc breaker on things you aren't supposed to is a player problem, not a class problem. In other words, anyone using their cc breaker on things like mezzes/sleeps/2 second stuns, etc.; shouldn't be claiming that a class has too many "Stuns". That really is a player issue more than anything else, people need to learn when to use their stun break. The Devs shouldn't have to cater to people that don't know how to play the game.

 

Ok, I will try that but I'm sure I'll get killed in 6 seconds anyway.

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I

It's just unbelievable to me that this error with AB/HS is sliding through their testing. :confused:

 

Not an error, watch the stream is basically the first thing they talk about, they will look at numbers first and depending on feedback will make changes accordingly

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http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/na/SWTORInfographic_11262014/infographic_en_854x4500.jpg

 

From the official swtor -advert. Look at the numbers of Smugglers and Imp Agents: 5,546,405 + 5,873,759 versus like jedi knights and Sith Warr: 9,314,029 + 8,646,835. So it seems, Bioware doesn't care to much about the Smugglers and Agents. Why all these changes now suddenly, while it was working well?

Also, don't forget that many of the cunning datacrons are hard to get, while the others are relatively easily. Look, I loved the Scoundrel and Gunslinger class a lot, but they make them both a lot weaker. Thermal grenade, nerved. Fly By, only for gunslingers. We'll see what Bludgeon and Blood Boiler will do. No word about Succerpunch and Flying fists yet. Also, no word about the Upper-Hand/Tactical Advantage mechanics, if that changes. We'll see, but I worry...

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Help me understand this because from a Scrapper point of view it seems that I'm losing more than I gaining.

 

1. Upper Hand provides no Dmg. & Healing bonuses (that Sucks)

Probably they remove:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/7QI4Knd/healing-hand

 

2. Were losing shoot 1st (that just blows)

No, you use Back Blast instead. That also goes for the Flechette Round. Cleans up two buttons, making it simpler, easier and better. Also the damage is comparable, so THANK YOU Bioware!

 

3. Shank-shot : thats just tendon shot (am I wrong???)

No, and we have no idea what the damage will be...

 

4. Bludgeon: uhhhhh, scatter guns don't have butt's so, were basicly hitting people with thin air?????

That's just whining

 

5. Blood Boiler: just let us use thermal detinator out of cover. (please)

That's just whining

 

6. New Passive abilities that grants extra dmg. when using Blaster volley (I can't even remember the last time i was in cover as a scrapper).

 

7. losing underworld medicine (I need this to back up the healer if he needs me or he dies)

"Underworld Medicine is now only available to the Sawbones discipline, but Slow-release Medpac can now be trained by all Scoundrels. Disappearing Act no longer prevents the Scoundrel from healing or being healed while it is active (activating a new heal will still break stealth, but any healing effects that are already in existence will continue to heal their targets)."

So, add a Slow-release in your rotation, can also be used right BEFORE disappearing act.

 

somebody help me understand how this helps us.

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I'm just baffled at the idea of taking splash/aoe damage away from a >>>>GRENADE!<<<<

 

All gameplay elements aside, who the bauwlz thought that would be a thematically sound idea? Its like making a car that doesnt drive.. Sure it'll probably still have its uses, but its not really a car anymore, is it?

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I'm just baffled at the idea of taking splash/aoe damage away from a >>>>GRENADE!<<<<

 

They did the same with flashbang some time ago. Does it fit thematically that a sniper throws a grenade? If they need Aoe damage they call for a friggin airstrike.

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No, you use Back Blast instead. That also goes for the Flechette Round. Cleans up two buttons, making it simpler, easier and better. Also the damage is comparable, so THANK YOU Bioware!

 

So you are saying that the new backstab does as much damages as hidden strike + old backstab?

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Yes, I know that but even if the new backstab does more damages when use in stealth , does it do as much damage as hidden strike + old backstab?

If yes, it's a dumb simplification , if not, it's a nerf.

 

It doesn't do as much damage because nothing does as much damage because damage and health numbers are being altered all across the board.

 

The real "nerf" would be that you can no longer Shoot First at one enemy and immediately Back Blast another, but openings and rotations change. That's just a fact of MMOS lifespans.

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Before 3.0, I have 2 skills (3 if I include acid blade) . After, I only have 1 and I do less damages. For me, it is the definition of a nerf.

 

All classes are "nerfed" in 3.0. Most classes lost some skills, Ops lose 2% damage from TA alone.

 

Hidden Strike is replaced with backstabbing from stealth, acid blade is applied automatically. That's two free hotkeys, and frankly, it should have always been that way.

 

What's missing is the ability to follow up with a backstab right after a hidden strike, i.e. the backstab from stealth having no cooldown (and the backstab-from-any-direction buff). The former was already suggested in the Livestream.

 

What we're getting, though, is a root that prevents turning, so we can do the debilitate-backstab dance twice as often. Stunlocking operatives ftw!

Edited by Mubrak
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Before 3.0, I have 2 skills (3 if I include acid blade) . After, I only have 1 and I do less damages. For me, it is the definition of a nerf.

 

Engineering/Saboteur gets 4th main ability. Wait a minute! That ability is already part of rotation. :)

Edited by Halinalle
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Hidden Strike is replaced with backstabbing from stealth, acid blade is applied automatically. That's two free hotkeys, and frankly, it should have always been that way.

 

In some situations, I prefer to not apply acid blade. By example, I want to lower as much as possible my oponent hp before using my flashbang, recover and engage again. In 3.0, we lose the possibility to choose to apply or not acid blade, sometimes, I will regret it.

 

What's missing is the ability to follow up with a backstab right after a hidden strike, i.e. the backstab from stealth having no cooldown (and the backstab-from-any-direction buff). The former was already suggested in the Livestream.

 

So it's a good news to lose the hidden strike but, with this lost, we need another thing to do after our backstab. So , people suggest a no cd backstab after using it in stealth and with the any direction buff.

Hmmm, it sounds like a skill I know...hidden strike no? And just for what? Having a hotkey frees? It is so difficult to do hidden strike + backstab instead of backstab x 2?

 

What we're getting, though, is a root that prevents turning, so we can do the debilitate-backstab dance twice as often. Stunlocking operatives ftw!

 

As said, it was already not difficult to use backstab in a fight and stunlock someone with only one stun available, I hope that you will hit him really hard :D

The only advantage of this new root for me, it's to be oos of my opponent for 4 sec. So 0 damage taken during this period and the possibility to heal ourselves or attack "freely" .

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