Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) So force shroud gives 3 seconds of 100%tech/force damage reduction and purge so a sniper/slingers dodge evectively gets ranged/melee imunity at a cost of purge and 25% tech/force damage? That doesn't seem like a good deal. I think they should combine both the purge and the defenses on dodge for both snipers and operatives, if you ask me. Not like operatives don't need something in the ball park as the other stealth alternative as well which also has its own form of entrench in 3.0 as well; BTW. And they can use it while moving. Edited November 25, 2014 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salig Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I saw nerf only((((( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Did i read someone say they're making frag grenade single target? WTH? It's FRAG GERNADE for god's sake! FRAG FRAG FRAG. Frags are NOT SINGLE TARGET! Edited November 25, 2014 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) So force shroud gives 3 seconds of 100%tech/force damage reduction and purge so a sniper/slingers dodge evectively gets ranged/melee imunity at a cost of purge and 25% tech/force damage? That doesn't seem like a good deal. Never said it was a good deal I've always disliked force shroud myself for rather obvious reasons Generally speaking there's a lot of talk about lots of things now being cleansable and all that jazz, well a sniper needs to keep players at range. It's how we survive so anything (force cloud included) which allows players to purge our cc effects (and for lethality their dots) is going to go against our class. That entire thing is going to be something I'll be interested to see how it plays out when 3.0 hits. Bit of clarity, I haven't fully read up on everything yet on what can and can't be cleansed/purged by what classes, only the obvious stuff with operatives/assassins. Edited November 25, 2014 by BaineOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Did i read someone say they're making frag grenade single target? WTH? It's FRAG GERNADE for god's sake! FRAG FRAG FRAG. Frags are NOT SINGLE TARGET! Just wait for 3.9 when they finally change the name to "Sticky Grenade" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Never said it was a good deal I've always disliked force shroud myself for rather obvious reasons Generally speaking there's a lot of talk about lots of things now being cleansable and all that jazz, well a sniper needs to keep players at range. It's how we survive so anything (force cloud included) which allows players to purge our cc effects (and for lethality their dots) is going to go against our class. That entire thing is going to be something I'll be interested to see how it plays out when 3.0 hits. Bit of clarity, I haven't fully read up on everything yet on what can and can't be cleansed/purged by what classes, only the obvious stuff with operatives/assassins. All CC can be cleansed. DOTs have to be purged. DOTs will now be spread by most DOT classes with the use of AOE. So us not having the purge is a bad thing in PvP when we are the easiest class to LOS and it doesn't help me much that covered escape's CD can no longer be reset by EMP. Even our own class is going against us on this patch. Diversion being an AOE and baseline to the class is all nice to use, but it hits us harder than any other class by forcing us out of cover. So that's great. The one thing we will counter well will be ourselves. I have 13 55s and have mained a slinger/sniper since launch, but I really have to consider changing or moving on. Edited November 25, 2014 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsoncheeto Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Would have much rather kept my purge but oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Ya I noticed that diversion change. I'm hoping that they've removed the ability to knock other snipers out of cover because they don't mention that in the blog. If it still works like it does for 2.10 diversion in 3.0 then that's going to be fantastic for arena's. One of the worst skills to come across would end up being our own when we come across another sniper/slinger on the other team. That would be very strange given the fact the devs specifically said they fully recognised that the class needed some boosts in defences to cope with arena. Well giving all snipers the ability to knock other snipers out of cover is not going to be helpful. Even with that change to evasion/dodge. What you've said about cc being cleansed and dots purged is basically what I've read but I'm interested in specifics in how exactly do they cleanse the cc. That's going to determine how we cc other classes effectively. The whole thing for me is a bit weird given it's important for us to keep our distance. Edited November 25, 2014 by BaineOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ya I noticed that diversion change. I'm hoping that they've removed the ability to knock other snipers out of cover because they don't mention that in the blog. If it still works like it does for 2.10 diversion in 3.0 then that's going to be fantastic for arena's. One of the worst skills to come across would end up being our own when we come across another sniper/slinger on the other team. That would be very strange given the fact the devs specifically said they fully recognised that the class needed some boosts in defences to cope with arena. Well giving all snipers the ability to knock other snipers out of cover is not going to be helpful. Even with that change to evasion/dodge. What you've said about cc being cleansed and dots purged is basically what I've read but I'm interested in specifics in how exactly do they cleanse the cc. That's going to determine how we cc other classes effectively. The whole thing for me is a bit weird given it's important for us to keep our distance. From what I have seen, there is now more classes with immunity to movement impairing effects. I'd be surprised if a healer reacts quickly enough to clear it off teamates and the healer likely would be your first target anyway so I don't think they can cleanse their own stun/mez. It just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe they intend to make the classes great at damage, but I always liked the thinking aspect of it more and the smart use of roots, I just think there is too much going against it right now to go along with them taking my favorite spec and making it something for someone else rather than those who liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diadox Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) That engineer stun will be a pain to land with these changes. Making it require three gcds gives way too much time to pop something to counter it. And making it rely on people staying inside Plasma Probe greatly increases the potential abilities that do counter it, especially given some of the additions you're making in 3.0 (sins with slow/root immunity on Force Speed, PTs with 75% Overrides, juggs with their very own Overrides etc). Please just revert the stun to being triggered by Plasma Probe itself, or if you really want it on EMP make it require only Interrogation Probe. I had to bring that up because it makes zero sense to me, I'll reserve my judgment on other things until I try it out for myself. Edited November 25, 2014 by diadox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 That engineer stun will be a pain to land with these changes. Making it require three gcds gives way too much time to pop something to counter it. And making it rely on people staying inside Plasma Probe greatly increases the potential abilities that do counter it, especially given some of the additions you're making in 3.0 (sins with slow/root immunity on Force Speed, PTs with 75% Overrides, juggs with their very own Overrides etc). Please just revert the stun to being triggered by Plasma Probe itself, or if you really want it on EMP make it require only Interrogation Probe. I had to bring that up because it makes zero sense to me, I'll reserve my judgment on other things until I try it out for myself. That's another good point. I was on the 3 abilities part but yeah; the fact that all they have to do is move out of Plasma Probe makes it nearly useless on a smart, mobile player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalstonestar Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Alright, I am mad at you guys. You ruined engine ring sniper. You made EMP discharge do something stupid. Wow... Well bioware, I have never said this before, but... YOU DUN SCREWED UP ! BTW Engineering sniper/sab gunslinger is my main. (I have both sniper and gunslinger at 55) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalstonestar Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ya I noticed that diversion change. I'm hoping that they've removed the ability to knock other snipers out of cover because they don't mention that in the blog. If it still works like it does for 2.10 diversion in 3.0 then that's going to be fantastic for arena's. One of the worst skills to come across would end up being our own when we come across another sniper/slinger on the other team. That would be very strange given the fact the devs specifically said they fully recognised that the class needed some boosts in defences to cope with arena. Well giving all snipers the ability to knock other snipers out of cover is not going to be helpful. Even with that change to evasion/dodge. What you've said about cc being cleansed and dots purged is basically what I've read but I'm interested in specifics in how exactly do they cleanse the cc. That's going to determine how we cc other classes effectively. The whole thing for me is a bit weird given it's important for us to keep our distance. Hey esc. I think that the fact that they made emp discharge do something stupid is the worst change. Engineering was a bit of a tank before now its just kind of weird. If anything have emp discharge heal 50% of health along with resetting cool downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Uh.. Scoundrels LOSE XS Freighter Flyby and to make up for it their stupid grenade stays unchanged? So all smugglers have an XS freighter, but only Gunslingers have the authority to call in a flyby? Seriously, this change is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) No more armor reduction on Shatter Shot? In that case they should change the name to Nerf Shot. Who cares if it has no cooldown now. The cool down was never had an issue. And quite honestly I never even noticed the reduce healing received since healing in this game is so OP anyways. What the hell is anyone going to do with this useless skill now? I guess BIO is hoping snipers will spam it everywhere. Wrong only a few snipers will use it and healing will still be OP and damage will be reduced most it's a sad fact that snipers only care about putting out DSP and will forgo the debuff if they don't see it having any effect. Seriously this change blows. Edited November 25, 2014 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 No more armor reduction on Shatter Shot? In that case they should change the name to Nerf Shot. Who cares if it has no cooldown now. The cool down was never had an issue. And quite honestly I never even noticed the reduce healing received since healing in this game is so OP anyways. What the hell am I going to do with this useless skill now? I guess BIO is hoping snipers will spam it everywhere. Wrong only a few snipers will use it and healing will still be OP and damage will be reduced most it's a sad fact that snipers only care about putting out DSP and will forgo the debuff if they don't see it having any effect. I'm not too worried about the loss of the armor debuff as you will notice that the new MM ability gives it. I think the other 2 specs also have it tied to an ability for their particular damage type as well to add damage. (AOE and Internal) but we will see on the stream. Might be all this does is make it to where you only worry about it if a healer is around, but you probably better as some classes have self heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 That loss of purge from dodge for my slinger seems very painful given current meta of PvP. Of course that is current meta and only speculation of DOTs in 3.0 and their effectiveness have been made. EDIT and how does that help Sab? All you effectively did was take the CD reset away from sabotage? I already could do a 2 second stun by hitting the enemy with incediary grenade. You actually nerfed me if I am actually losing the entrench reset on it as well as now having to use sabotage in order to get the stun where I didn't before. /SMH If you read between lines for the last couple of streams they are trying to say that you are not supposed to get rid of dots placed on you at all. Operatives and Assassins get the purge because combat stealth is one of their core utilities and if they don't have a dot purge they will be denied their most important utility. So whether or not you agree with that basic idea, it is still inline with the underlying logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If you read between lines for the last couple of streams they are trying to say that you are not supposed to get rid of dots placed on you at all. Operatives and Assassins get the purge because combat stealth is one of their core utilities and if they don't have a dot purge they will be denied their most important utility. So whether or not you agree with that basic idea, it is still inline with the underlying logic. Aye I heard that on the streams and it does sound fair enough (although very frustrating to play against ), it's the cleansing stuff that is what interests me and what effects it's going to have for us snipers. Might be none at all but if cc's are now cleansable then it just seems to me that it's going to have some impact on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehound Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Welp. With the 12x leveling event, I finally got around to taking my Sniper to cap... only to discover that Snipers are getting nerfed to the ground. We lose having a purge (in exchange for a damage reduction that will mean exactly jack since it only lasts two GCDs and isn't even full immunity), we lose AoE and utility from Frag Grenade's changes (in exchange for a damage boost that isn't likely to matter because Frag was never good single target to begin with), Eng loses having a defensive cooldown reset (for the dubious honor of having its ranged stun take three GCDs instead of two and be avoided with ease by any attentive player), Eng and Virulence lose access to armor shred because of the new and weaker Shatter Shot, and... What's that? Diversion for all? Too bad the Diversion change means that Sniper/GS now hard counters... Sniper/GS, and soft counters people who cluster together for no good reason while not having much in the way of accuracy. Nobody else relies on cover; the one other AC (two if we count the mirrors separately) that can use it sometimes is a stealth class that's more interested in getting behind you. Virulence comes closest to winning out thanks to DoT spreading (and *maybe* poisonsnipe if it turns out to be genuinely good), but it still loses, and the other two trees lose even harder. The previous paragraph may turn out slightly less true if we have really, really, brokenly good utilities that the devs are holding out on us, or if our numbers take notably less of a whomping than everyone else's. I don't expect that to be the case, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If you read between lines for the last couple of streams they are trying to say that you are not supposed to get rid of dots placed on you at all. Operatives and Assassins get the purge because combat stealth is one of their core utilities and if they don't have a dot purge they will be denied their most important utility. So whether or not you agree with that basic idea, it is still inline with the underlying logic. Yeah, I suppose then it depends on how hard DOTs hit. Have seen some bad ones, but its like I said; I cannot tell what that will look like in 3.0. I've been sitting here thinking about whether I want to main something else; but in the end, I guess it doesn't matter because GS/Sniper is what I've always had the most fun with so, will have to make it work one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I suppose then it depends on how hard DOTs hit. Have seen some bad ones, but its like I said; I cannot tell what that will look like in 3.0. I've been sitting here thinking about whether I want to main something else; but in the end, I guess it doesn't matter because GS/Sniper is what I've always had the most fun with so, will have to make it work one way or the other. If they are nerfing dps, then dots can't not be hitting harder than right now (or at least similar to). If you add to that the increase HP we are getting then you will start to notice where this is going. However, the changes to dodge is good, 75% damage reduction for tech/force is superb to absorb some of that burst damage. Edited November 25, 2014 by znihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foulsmell Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is looking like a whole lot of nerfs for sniper. Taking the dot remove off evasion was our main defense against madness sorcs, sins, and leathality snipers. Taking the armor debuff off. Taking the interrogation/plasma probe away (need to use emp discharge with interrogation/plasma probe in 3.0) Taking the aoe away from frag nade. Taking explosive probe away from leathality and marksmen snipers. Didnt read anything that has a wow factor to make up for these nerfs. Spreading the corrosive dart? meh All while saying they know that snipers are weak in arenas recently. They go and nerf them more. This is the reason why they did 12x exp boost. To roll different classes after screwing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 FYI. I liked Sab for it not having a rotation so set in stone. They probably are not making sab any weaker and may be making it stronger, but you're ruining the feel for those of us that actually liked it how it was. 110% Fun is not just about numbers. It seems they forget this more and more. Looks like my smuggler is going to be but a shadow of her former self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very unlikely because they publish blogs before they stream the class changes, and the stream is tomorrow, so I bet my money on Operative/Scoundrel blog tomorrow as well. Streams normally on fridays, you sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightTyler Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Surprised that nobody has noticed that they managed to get this in. To quote: "The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question." Dodge will now increase your chance to Dodge melee/ranged attacks by 100% and reduce the damage taken from Force/Tech attacks by 75% for 3 seconds. 1 minute cooldown. Guarded By The Force increases damage reduction by 99% for 4 seconds and reduces your current health by 50%. 2 minute cooldown. Even with Dodge losing Purge effect, It is way better than Guarded By The Force ever was and Im curious as to how " The changes made to Dodge give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Gunslinger that is being backed by a healer." Side note: The reason they took away Purge effect from Dodge I believe is because they only wanted "Stealth" classes to have a baseline Purge and also because DoT's are becoming more prevalent in 3.0. Im not saying that Gunslingers may not need this effect in 3.0. Im saying that the reasons Sentinel's Guarded By The Force was changed is so that "NPC's and other classes" would have a fighting chance, but Dodge is effectively the same thing Guarded By The Force was, except its better because of a shorter cooldown. Don't mistake this as me calling for a nerf for Gunslingers, Im simply trying to draw attention to the fact that Guarded By The Force is terrible in its current state for Sentinel's playstyle. Note: I'd much rather Gunslinger's/Snipers get something similar to what I post below, instead of just a plain old "reduce/dodge" this; to at least allow for classes to have some disparity between their moves. Vantage Point/Sniper's Nest - passive talent given to Gunslingers and Snipers at 51 that causes Dodge/Evasion to immediately reset the cooldown of Hightail it/Covered Escape and after it is reset applies a buff for (X) seconds, that causes the next Hightail it/Covered Escape to grant stealth for 3 seconds. Dealing direct damage breaks stealth. Stealth does not exit combat. This allows Gunslinger's/Sniper's to stick to their playstyle, which is staying at a distance. (It pretty much does the same thing the new "Dodge" changes would do since you are stealthed for 3 seconds, except this helps you create distance which would help out a bunch in Arena's when you begin to get focused.) Edited November 25, 2014 by KnightTyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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