Will raiding in MMOs one day be a thing of the past?

[Khevar]

I've really been trying to wrap my brain around that mentality. Intellectually, I know a lot of humans are like this both IRL and in-game, but that doesn't really translate into comprehension, unfortunately.

 

Anyway, thanks!

If you're asking "what do people like about doing raids?" I can give you my personal reasons.

 

1. I enjoy cooperative play with other people. When 1.3 introduced the group finder, I ran many many many pug flashpoints. While a few of them belonged in the "weird people" thread, the majority were good experiences.

 

One in particular was a False Emperor run. The other 3 people in the flashpoint were relaxed, funny, and did a bit of minor RP in chat during the encounters. They "argued" with Jindo Krey, teased droids during knockbacks, and someone typed "flush" at the very end of the final fight. It was one of the more memorable and fun experiences I've ever had in any video game.

 

2. I like the "puzzle" aspect of challenging encounters. There was a time when the Heavy Fabricator in KP was super difficult for me and my team. Then someone suggested putting 3 people up top (next to the control panels), and solving the Tower of Hanoi in just a few seconds. Or take the Kephess fight in EC, there are a lot of moving parts. Learning it was a bit like learning a complex dance. Even though I haven't stepped foot in EC for ages, I could still recite every stage of that fight from memory.

 

3. I like hanging out with friends in mumble / vent while playing together. Although I've done many hundreds of pug flashpoints, I generally do operations with friends. Mind you, these are friends I've met while playing this game. We have a good time, we tease each other, we tell jokes, and we slay pixels.

 

I don't mind running the same operation over and over again, as long as these guys and gals are with me in chat.

 

Anyway. Just my personal experiences.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Khevar

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I agree to a point more thinking about it I think raiding will always be there but I think more of an open sandboxype world will be the new thing. Where the game caters to all kinds of players. You will have raids still but the game will focus more on other stuff as well. Star Wars Galacies was a perfect example.

 

They made Flashpoints/raids accessible to anyone. Sure you had to have some level of gear to be able to do it but the gear was all player made if there was a loot drop of armour it still had to be crafted by a player and the mods and I can't recall what they were called but what gave the armour its stats was crafted by players.

 

You had crafting end game stuff after you levelled a lot of guilds focused on building their player city. That took resources and time to have crafters build the cantinas and spaceport a or you just bought one that was made but you as a guild came together to get the cash to pay for it.

 

There was an open style space you could fly into space and fly anywhere it was open. Space missions you had to fly to. All ship components were player made and the resources some of which were mined from asteroids which took time. So a lot of people just played and focused on crafting. There was even one flashpoint where all 8 people got into one ship you flew it and landed in a star destroyer hanger bay and then fought ur way to the bridge for the boss fight.

 

The developers added a lot of achievements like we have but when you finished a collection of them maybe you got a rare per dna that a crafter could craft into a pet or maybe a shell of armour or a speeder. And they added new collections often and the rewards made it worth while to complete. I remember having to kill a few hundred krayt Dragons to get a player title Krayt Dragon Killer I was first on my server it took a long time for the ancient krayts to spawn. I remeber camping a spot out with a few guild mates and we dropped a jukebox down listened to Star Wars tunes while we talked and waited.

 

A lot of players raided over and over in flashpoints to get house decor or a rare mat drop or she'll to sell. The crafters always had to restock vendors there were so many things worth crafting from decor to gear. You also had the dancer class these players would buff toons in the cantina and we would tip them for the buffs. Every planet was worth going back to because the mobs you killed you could harvest resources like bone or meat so any planet would do and you would go kill. Plus he collection or acheivement quests they added every month or so made you spread out to all the planets to complete them. And each planet had repeatable content to get stuff worth while to decorate with or sell on a vendor or have crafted. You could even go fishing in that game and you had a collection/acheivement quest to catch a fish of every different type and if you completed it you got a one time use schematic for a fish tank then you had to quest for the drops of parts to get it made was a lot of fun.

 

The PVP was amazing they had open world pvp you could flag yourself or not your choice so you didn't have to get ganked if you were just gathering resources. And they even had player bases you would place and try to place somewhere remote to gain faction points to control a planet and as the opposing team we would have scouts looking for the other sides bases so we could group up and destroy them. They even destroyed a city in game and turned it into a pvp area with quests for pvp gear etc was a lot of fun.

 

SWTOR just has raids and pvp that's it. The acheivements give us nothing. The crafting blows only a few times are worth crafting so everyone crafts the same thing lol SWG there was so much to craft and new schematics added all the time. I think that's what the meaning of the article is and that's why people are saying SWTOR is dying and that article explains why this game has died off the servers used o be packed you always had to wait to log on and there were a lot more servers the population died off way too quick after everyone hit 59 and there wasn't much end game. That's what the article is saying a MMO has to diversify to stay current and that raiding is only for a small percentage and this game is proof that only a small percentage has stayed.

 

No offense, but seriously swg seems to be rememberd with serious rose colored glasses. Not to mention, besides maybe EVE what sandbox game has ever really done well? What this Basically a game without raids is boring, and literally hemorrhage players after top level.

 

Just because some article states something, doesnt make it accurate. Every other week there is an article that says mobile gaming is the future and PC and console games are done for? Because some blog writer writes it, doesnt mean it is either accurate or true.

 

what it sounds like from a couple posters, is they dont want to be bothered with being a responsible participant of an OP by learning mechanics, or to be expected to play their role efficiently, and I think because of that, they would rather bring down raids and OPs all together because they cant get the top gear. They may be harsh, but it is how I see it.

 

It isnt a problem of development cost, it is a problem of a self entitled playerbase that wants maximum reward for no effort.

[LordArtemis]

Ouch. So not just operations, but flashpoints as well?

 

It sounds like you're suggesting that all cooperative group content should become obsolete.

 

Not obsolete....but less relevant. At least in it's current traditional form.

 

Raids need to undergo a transformation. IMO they can not survive as they are now as a regular game staple, eventually interest will wane to the point where there is no further development. They are just not the driving force they once were.

 

However, if changes can be made to how they are presented, and the community can learn how to "work well with others" I think that they can transform and thrive.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Also just wanted to say all that previous comment was just directed at the quote author, just the part about swg. The rest was in response to previous posters.

[LordArtemis]

No offense, but seriously swg seems to be rememberd with serious rose colored glasses. Not to mention, besides maybe EVE what sandbox game has ever really done well? What this Basically a game without raids is boring, and literally hemorrhage players after top level.

 

Just because some article states something, doesnt make it accurate. Every other week there is an article that says mobile gaming is the future and PC and console games are done for? Because some blog writer writes it, doesnt mean it is either accurate or true.

 

what it sounds like from a couple posters, is they dont want to be bothered with being a responsible participant of an OP by learning mechanics, or to be expected to play their role efficiently, and I think because of that, they would rather bring down raids and OPs all together because they cant get the top gear. They may be harsh, but it is how I see it.

 

It isnt a problem of development cost, it is a problem of a self entitled playerbase that wants maximum reward for no effort.

 

Traditional hardcore players are generally unwilling to admit, in general terms of course, that raiding has had it's day and is losing relevance, and they seem to tend to blame it on "bads" or "lazies".

 

The biggest detriment to the raid scene is the hardcore raiders that participate in it. They are killing their own playstyle with elitist exclusionary attitudes IMO.

 

Only casuals can save raiding...if it is left up the dwindling hardcore community raids will cease to exist.

Edited January 6, 2015 by LordArtemis

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Not obsolete....but less relevant. At least in it's current traditional form.

 

Raids need to undergo a transformation. IMO they can not survive as they are now as a regular game staple, eventually interest will wane to the point where there is no further development. They are just not the driving force they once were.

 

However, if changes can be made to how they are presented, and the community can learn how to "work well with others" I think that they can transform and thrive.

 

Yeah but Artimes, even you have to realize that yes some people are elitest a@$hats, but some of the problem is players that dont want to be bothered with learning how to work well with their fellow OPs players. You cant just change high end OPs to the lowest denominator so that everyone can play. Raids have been a main staple of MMOs since the beginning, and personally when imsee someone saying they are becoming obsolete, that ranksmup there with mobile games will replace console games...

[LordArtemis]

Yeah but Artimes, even you have to realize that yes some people are elitest a@$hats, but some of the problem is players that dont want to be bothered with learning how to work well with their fellow OPs players. You cant just change high end OPs to the lowest denominator so that everyone can play. Raids have been a main staple of MMOs since the beginning, and personally when imsee someone saying they are becoming obsolete, that ranksmup there with mobile games will replace console games...

 

Of course. That problem has existed since the beginning of raids, but IMO is not the reason for their decline.

 

Studios have released numbers to prove the market is in decline...one only has to look to the movement to more casual content to see the trend.

 

Raids have had their day. It is now time to rethink how they are done and presented.

 

Something like Ops should remain pure as it is. That should be untouched. But Flashpoints need to be revisited IMO.

[Drockter]

Can you tell me what the appeal of raiding is? I don't get it. A lot of people love it, but I've never been able to pin down why.

 

To me, it's running the same content over and over until you've memorized every boss' attacks beside a bunch of harsh critics. Exactly the kind of thing that makes me run away cringing-- because endless repetition, even if the bosses grow harder, is the antithesis of fun for me. I've never been a fan of boss battles in single-player RPGs either, so the over-the-top effects in MMOs make what I already consider to be a tiresome mechanic even longer and more annoying. Flashpoints, even solo, irritate me when I have to deal with MMO-style bosses.

 

Full disclosure; I don't consider myself a hard-core raider.

 

For me, the fun of raiding is the group environment. Needing all players to act in unison as a team to cooperatively overcome a shared obstacle. To me, others may have different views, it is about the difficulty. The chance to outright fail.

 

I don't mind players new to ops (someone mentioned the LFG 2 Heals SnV - Know fights type of raider. I avoid them, even if I know all the fights... those types of runs are boring to me. having someone new in, that spices it up for me. After a couple runs with any "set team", I honeslty prefer to pug. I do not seek World's First, or World's Fastest run of whatever Ops... I like the challenge... it pushes me to improve my skills as <insert role here>, so that I may assist the other members of my team achieve the victory.

 

To some extent, each ops run (provided you mix up the team) is different. Players of different styles, players of different abilities... it can be kept fresh... I personally prefer the ops run where things "don't go exactly to guide".

 

Really, its not much different than running dailies if you think about it... dailies are repetitive tasks (same set of NPC's, same path, same basic attack patterns). Ops, add another layer of complexity (and variety)... I can't do them alone...i need a team.. and we need to work together to get the job done. It helps us improve. I know I am a much better healer because of ops, than I learned how to be leveling, or doing dailies/heroics. The non-tactical flashpoints helped to some extent.

 

I know there are the raiders that want/expect everyone to know the fights, and expect clean/flawless runs each and everytime ... those that react harshly if you don't know to excrtiating detail exactly what to do. (harsh critics is the term you used)... and I can see how that experience chases people away...

 

On the flip side... I have run with many a raider who enjoy teaching... who is happy to explain the fight, what is expected from your role... and make the run enjoyable. I've been on more than one team (and led a few) that will happily kick the harsh critic and keep the "noob".

[Drockter]

The biggest detriment to the raid scene is the hardcore raiders that participate in it. They are killing their own playstyle with elitist exclusionary attitudes IMO.

 

Only casuals can save raiding...if it is left up the dwindling hardcore community raids will cease to exist.

 

I feel the exact same way, not only about raiding... but PvP as well.

 

I've been trying to get more of my guildmates into raiding. Its surprising how many have given it up ops entirely... because they got into a group forming on fleet, and were subjected to these "elitist exclusionary attitudes". Being a small guild, its hard to get a full team together, and it is taking longer and longer to fill teams on fleet.

 

Experience is everything...

[LordArtemis]

I feel the exact same way, not only about raiding... but PvP as well.

 

I've been trying to get more of my guildmates into raiding. Its surprising how many have given it up ops entirely... because they got into a group forming on fleet, and were subjected to these "elitist exclusionary attitudes". Being a small guild, its hard to get a full team together, and it is taking longer and longer to fill teams on fleet.

 

Experience is everything...

 

And really, the hardcore raiding community could change the destiny of raids overnight IMO...if they united together and campaigned for proper training content to prepare casuals for end game raiding, and then welcomed them when they joined the fray.

 

A solo flashpoint is not good training, not by a long shot, but it does introduce a casual player to some tactical play, and can give a casual player a taste of what they are missing. Then the next step would be an actual tactical.

 

But in the end SM flashpoints need to have a turndown of difficulty as well, to stand as proper "training" for casual players looking to enter end game raiding. Once players have properly learned how to play in their class and role they can then move on to HMs and Ops, which should remain as they are.

 

But the most vital aspect to this plan is to encourage hardcore players to move into these reduced difficulty SMs and help casuals learn the ropes. Then, and only then, will they be ready to join the ranks of hardcore players.

 

This, IMO, will sustain raiding for the long term.

[Max_Killjoy]

Traditional hardcore players are generally unwilling to admit, in general terms of course, that raiding has had it's day and is losing relevance, and they seem to tend to blame it on "bads" or "lazies".

 

The biggest detriment to the raid scene is the hardcore raiders that participate in it. They are killing their own playstyle with elitist exclusionary attitudes IMO.

 

Only casuals can save raiding...if it is left up the dwindling hardcore community raids will cease to exist.

 

It doesn't help at all that the most vocal minority of the hardcore raiding minority gives the rest of their sub-community a bad name by being so egotistical and self-important that the best phrase I can think of is "Up their own bungholes".

 

That vocal minority doesn't *seem* to blame it on "bads" and "lazies", that's their unashamed fallback commentary on everyone who isn't the hardest of hardcore raiders and anyone who disagrees with them, and anyone who dares to remind them that dedicated endgame players are just another minority in the mishmash of minorities that make up an MMO's playerbase.

 

These guys openly and fully believe that the entire game needs to be built around their particular minority, without any concern or time or even respect given to the other minorities.

[Khevar]

It doesn't help at all that the most vocal minority of the hardcore raiding minority gives the rest of their sub-community a bad name by being so egotistical and self-important that the best phrase I can think of is "Up their own bungholes".

I wish I couldn't agree with you on this, but I have seen this as well.

 

Luckily, not everyone is like this.

 

I have seen guilds that pug missing slots for operations that are patient and help players. I've seen players that spend time on the forums answering questions and giving advice. I've seen raiders that despise elitist exclusion, and fight against it.

 

But then I've seen complete ***hats treat other people like dirt and wipe out any goodwill the decent people tried to earn.

 

/le sigh

Edited January 6, 2015 by Khevar

[Drockter]

But the most vital aspect to this plan is to encourage hardcore players to move into these reduced difficulty SMs and help casuals learn the ropes. Then, and only then, will they be ready to join the ranks of hardcore players.

 

This, IMO, will sustain raiding for the long term.

 

Couldn't agree more. Exactly why I am in the process of forming up a SM Ops progression team.

 

I am always amused by the players when they finish their first op. Their excitement , and sense of awe, is palpable. When a player reaches 50 in my guild, we specifically set up a EV run. To introduce Ops.

[Khevar]

Couldn't agree more. Exactly why I am in the process of forming up a SM Ops progression team.

 

I am always amused by the players when they finish their first op. Their excitement , and sense of awe, is palpable. When a player reaches 50 in my guild, we specifically set up a EV run. To introduce Ops.

Two thumbs up!!

[Drockter]

It doesn't help at all that the most vocal minority of the hardcore raiding minority gives the rest of their sub-community a bad name by being so egotistical and self-important that the best phrase I can think of is "Up their own bungholes".

 

You and I don't agree on a lot Max... but we agree here.

 

These guys openly and fully believe that the entire game needs to be built around their particular minority, without any concern or time or even respect given to the other minorities.

 

Well, to be fair... every playstyle has this type of player.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Drockter

[Zoom_VI]

And really, the hardcore raiding community could change the destiny of raids overnight IMO...if they united together and campaigned for proper training content to prepare casuals for end game raiding, and then welcomed them when they joined the fray.

 

A solo flashpoint is not good training, not by a long shot, but it does introduce a casual player to some tactical play, and can give a casual player a taste of what they are missing. Then the next step would be an actual tactical.

 

But in the end SM flashpoints need to have a turndown of difficulty as well, to stand as proper "training" for casual players looking to enter end game raiding. Once players have properly learned how to play in their class and role they can then move on to HMs and Ops, which should remain as they are.

 

But the most vital aspect to this plan is to encourage hardcore players to move into these reduced difficulty SMs and help casuals learn the ropes. Then, and only then, will they be ready to join the ranks of hardcore players.

 

This, IMO, will sustain raiding for the long term.

 

The casuals need to learn to ask.

 

Yesterday a guildy and I where running warzones on our VGs. In one match we completely doubled a pug VG's damage output. After the match he whispered us asking for advice. And we ended up inviting him to group and spending ten minutes giving him pointers and advice.

 

All because he asked.

 

The "hardcore" community is not going to sit around looking for casuals to help, but if the casuals would just learn to ask, they might discover that the "hardcore" community is not so "elitist" as they thought.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[LyraineAlei]

The casuals need to learn to ask.

 

Yesterday a guildy and I where running warzones on our VGs. In one match we completely doubled a pug VG's damage output. After the match he whispered us asking for advice. And we ended up inviting him to group and spending ten minutes giving him pointers and advice.

 

All because he asked.

 

The "hardcore" community is not going to sit around looking for casuals to help, but if the casuals would just learn to ask, they might discover that the "hardcore" community is not so "elitist" as they thought.

 

It isn't so much the learning how to ask part that is the problem. The problem would be from the casual asking one of those loudmouth elitist <bleeps> by mistake, thinking the person was a decent person who wouldn't mind giving advice.

 

That fear is likely why casuals don't ask.

 

Not saying I fully disagree with you, just that there is a semi-legit reason why we casuals tend to avoid raids like the plague even if we would like to learn how to run them.

[Max_Killjoy]

I wish I couldn't agree with you on this, but I have seen this as well.

 

Luckily, not everyone is like this.

 

I have seen guilds that pug missing slots for operations that are patient and help players. I've seen players that spend time on the forums answering questions and giving advice. I've seen raiders that despise elitist exclusion, and fight against it.

 

But then I've seen complete ***hats treat other people like dirt and wipe out any goodwill the decent people tried to earn.

 

/le sigh

 

I was trying to be very careful to not paint with a broad brush there, we see too many posts that amount to "X type of player is Y type of bad human being".

[Khevar]

I was trying to be very careful to not paint with a broad brush there, we see too many posts that amount to "X type of player is Y type of bad human being".

Totally understood.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Khevar

[JainiaDral]

what it sounds like from a couple posters, is they dont want to be bothered with being a responsible participant of an OP by learning mechanics, or to be expected to play their role efficiently, and I think because of that, they would rather bring down raids and OPs all together because they cant get the top gear. They may be harsh, but it is how I see it.

 

It isnt a problem of development cost, it is a problem of a self entitled playerbase that wants maximum reward for no effort.

 

Who are you talking about here? If you're including me in your impression, you're incorrect. I've never touched an op in my life, and I've only grouped once for a flashpoint (Black Talon) as a favor to a lower-level player. I rarely group at all unless I'm on Yavin 4 and have to share one of the infrequently-spawning bosses with someone else. I buff people randomly and toss ailing players heals when I'm in the public gaming areas if my character at the time is capable.

 

I don't really care one way or the other if Bioware and other game development companies keep devoting tons of resources to raiding or not. The way I see it, the hardcore raiders are probably going to be subscribing to this game long after the grind has completely worn down my enthusiasm for the class stories so it's far smarter money to listen to them.

 

[RANDOM ASIDE]

 

One thing, honestly, that I would like to see is an end to solo player handicaps in flashpoints. I've been unable to solo the CZ-198 flashpoints because I can't use the courtesy kolto stations. I don't need Jesus Droid for everything-- I just need to be able to use the utilities that grouped players can.

 

Drockter, Khevar, Vanisher, thanks for the insight into what makes raiding fun and interesting to you.

 

Well if I were join a guild that doesn't set up schedules the guild I am in they have set raid times so people can log on and partake in raids. If you are not on at that time you just don't raid. We have no expectations you can choose to raid or not. When we aren't raiding we have people just doing whatever you jump in teamspeak see what people are up to people are always helping each other out. They group up for random flashpoints or dailes or group up for pvp. It's always something new we even group up and just go looking for datacrons as a group. So there are laid back guilds and there are raiding guilds and guilds just pvp so find a guild that meshes for you ask them questions get a feel for them. You can probably find a friendly guild.

 

My guild seemed perfectly friendly-- nice people and inclusive. It's not their fault. It's mine. The idea of having to voice chat when I'm trying to relax with a game sends shivers down my spine. I'm not guild material at all, which is pretty much what I told the guy who invited me My few days in the guild pretty much confirmed my initial assessment.

 

 

Really, its not much different than running dailies if you think about it... dailies are repetitive tasks (same set of NPC's, same path, same basic attack patterns). Ops, add another layer of complexity (and variety)... I can't do them alone...i need a team.. and we need to work together to get the job done. It helps us improve. I know I am a much better healer because of ops, than I learned how to be leveling, or doing dailies/heroics. The non-tactical flashpoints helped to some extent.

 

See, I loathe dailies. I've learned to do them faster with the repetition, but I hate that the game setup forces me to do them if I'm going to be able to enjoy my alts' class stories. I really hated that phase of the final SOR quest where you had to do the dailies to advance to the final battle. Voluntarily choosing to do that-- anyway, I wish I could tap into that kind of satisfaction that everyone here seems to get from raiding. I think I'd enjoy the game a lot more if I could absorb some of that energy

 

If you're asking "what do people like about doing raids?" I can give you my personal reasons.

 

1. I enjoy cooperative play with other people. When 1.3 introduced the group finder, I ran many many many pug flashpoints. While a few of them belonged in the "weird people" thread, the majority were good experiences.

 

One in particular was a False Emperor run. The other 3 people in the flashpoint were relaxed, funny, and did a bit of minor RP in chat during the encounters. They "argued" with Jindo Krey, teased droids during knockbacks, and someone typed "flush" at the very end of the final fight. It was one of the more memorable and fun experiences I've ever had in any video game.

 

2. I like the "puzzle" aspect of challenging encounters. There was a time when the Heavy Fabricator in KP was super difficult for me and my team. Then someone suggested putting 3 people up top (next to the control panels), and solving the Tower of Hanoi in just a few seconds. Or take the Kephess fight in EC, there are a lot of moving parts. Learning it was a bit like learning a complex dance. Even though I haven't stepped foot in EC for ages, I could still recite every stage of that fight from memory.

 

3. I like hanging out with friends in mumble / vent while playing together. Although I've done many hundreds of pug flashpoints, I generally do operations with friends. Mind you, these are friends I've met while playing this game. We have a good time, we tease each other, we tell jokes, and we slay pixels.

 

I don't mind running the same operation over and over again, as long as these guys and gals are with me in chat.

 

Anyway. Just my personal experiences.

 

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experiences.

[oakamp]

There was an interesting article over at Massively...

 

 

Generally speaking, the vast majority of modern MMO players tend to be casual players, participate very little if any in end game content and generally are of a transient nature (hardcore players tend to be more loyal and dependable).

 

Obviously creating raid content likely represents a sizable investment...so I put forth the question that this author puts forth in part one of the list....should MMOs abandon raiding? I ask the question...will we see the end of traditional raiding in MMOs in the near future?

 

 

what is the definition of "traditional raiding"?

don't u see EQ died, WoW replaced it?

the market says that ppl hate EQ style raiding,

that is called a traditional raiding.

[Zoom_VI]

It isn't so much the learning how to ask part that is the problem. The problem would be from the casual asking one of those loudmouth elitist <bleeps> by mistake, thinking the person was a decent person who wouldn't mind giving advice.

 

That fear is likely why casuals don't ask.

 

Not saying I fully disagree with you, just that there is a semi-legit reason why we casuals tend to avoid raids like the plague even if we would like to learn how to run them.

 

If they flip out on you, there is a ignore function. Seriously there is no excuse for not asking, and there will always be decent people around, you just have to find them.

[Jandi]

It isn't so much the learning how to ask part that is the problem. The problem would be from the casual asking one of those loudmouth elitist <bleeps> by mistake, thinking the person was a decent person who wouldn't mind giving advice.

 

That fear is likely why casuals don't ask.

 

Not saying I fully disagree with you, just that there is a semi-legit reason why we casuals tend to avoid raids like the plague even if we would like to learn how to run them.

 

Not once since the early days of WoW have I been flamed by anyone if I:

 

A) At the very start, or preferrably at the invite part, kindly say that I've never done this before.

B) At each encounter I'm not sure of, ask for the tactics

 

People rag the WoW community but honestly, even there, I've never been kicked or flamed if I only *asked* before we wiped. I tanked and healed all the operations pre-SoR and not once was I kicked for not knowing the tactics because I told in advance that I didn't know what to do.

 

Now, granted, I'm one of those "elite raiders" people like to bash but you know a little secret? When new content comes out? None of us know what to do, except those that play betas etc. Even for experienced raiders, there's still a first time.

 

Oh, and if you do encounter people that only want experienced players in their group, don't get upset, it's their choice. Just like you can form a group that only takes newbies (I use that word in it's actual meaning, not as a derogatory comment) and doens't invite people who've done the place before. It's the group leaders choice, simply move on, ther's always groups who will take people with or without experience to SM ops because, in all honesty, they are all extremely easy (to experienced players, even if they are there the first time. I don't think I ever caused a wipe as a tank on my first runs).

Edited January 7, 2015 by Jandi

[LordArtemis]

I have recently seen players razzle other players in Pugs for.....

 

1) Not healing properly

2) Pulling trash at the wrong times

3) Pulling too many mobs at once

4) Not having the right equipment

5) Not playing their class properly

6) Wearing the wrong appearance for their class (yes, this really happened)

7) Not spacebarrng

8) Not keeping up with the group

9) Not killing enough mobs compared to everyone else

10) Not fighting the bosses properly

11) Not managing agro properly

12) Chatting about non-game things in chat

13) Chatting about the game in chat

14) Chatting in chat

15) Being too low of a level in KDY (as if that makes a real difference)

16) Using the wrong lightsaber color

17) Using the wrong rotation

 

...this was just since last week, mostly in KDY. This is one of the big problems with raiding in this game (and of course in general across the market). The attitude of folks that raid seems to be the biggest detriment to the survival of raiding. Until this attitude changes, or players deride others acting in this way it is going to be difficult for raids to survive and remain relevant.

[Kurkina]

7) Not spacebarrng

8) Not keeping up with the group

 

 

The cardinal sins, should be absolved by the end of the first run through the Esseles.