Flagging and Feign Death

[LordArtemis]

I'd rather have the bolster tbh, since I can hear what people are saying that it will make PvP harder & what bugs me is not the flag, it's the fight being fixed against the defending party. Plus, can they implement a different mechanics like that depending on the type of the server?

 

EDIT: And I have repeated myself enough times to tire of my own voice. Out!

 

Bolster is a good idea IMO, or the removal of expertise in OWPVP. But that still does not address the idea that folks find ways of getting players involved in PVP that do not desire to participate.

[Grayseven]

I'd rather have the bolster tbh, since I can hear what people are saying that it will make PvP harder & what bugs me is not the flag, it's the fight being fixed against the defending party. Plus, can they implement a different mechanics like that depending on the type of the server?

 

EDIT: And I have repeated myself enough times to tire of my own voice. Out!

 

Bolster has its uses and OWPvP isn't a good place for it.

 

As for implementing different mechanics on different servers, a hard toggle wouldn't matter on a PvP server since it would always be "on"...basically, as it is now.

 

PvE server characters can toggle their PvP flag from the character pane now, but on a PvP server it is always toggled on.

 

The only change being advocated here (for the most part) is to make it impossible for a character to attack a PvP flagged character unless their own PvP toggle is turned on. No tricks, no treachery, no griefing.

 

It won't have an effect on OWPvP on PvE servers, unless you are one of the griefers who believe that OWPvP is when you trick someone into flagging. Players looking for OWPvP "always on" are already on PvP servers where daily and event areas can provide all the OWPvP they can stomach. The people on PvE servers who claim the sky wold fall if they couldn't trick people into PvP are the same people who can't compete on a PvP server...I mean, why else would you join a PvE server and then complain about OWPvP?

 

Anecdotal evidence on the direction of MMO's aside, the only people a hard toggle for PvP would affect on a PvE server are the d-bags currently using a game mechanic to grief.

[Cidanel]

Are you trying to tell me that players in SWTOR think that enemy players who feign death are "sleeping" and are thus easy targets to kill, so they deliberately attack them with full knowledge it will flag them for PvP, believing they can win the fight?

 

That's not what's happening and you know it full well.

 

I am trying to tell you that your analogy of being in a gym IRL is pretty stupid, and doesn't apply to this conversation.

 

Don't be stupid and you won't fall for stupid tricks like feign death.

[LordArtemis]

I think careless would be a more accurate term.

[GadgetDon]

I think you're blowing it out of proportion a bit. I doubt the vast majority of players really care about a toggle like that. Most of them will accidentally flag a few times, get ganked, remember what they did, and won't do it again. It's only the vocal few who come to the forum to complain.

 

Actually, the tricks involved here, they may not know what they did. When you try to loot someone feigning death, you don't get a big red message "FOOLED YOU! YOU LOOTED SOMEONE FEIGNING DEATH" just suddenly you're in a fight and if it's a low level being ganked suddenly you're dead. If you heal someone you shouldn't, again, no big red message on what happened, just suddenly you're flagged.

 

Until this new thing was added, the rules were straightforward, everyone learned them early. If there's a glowing beam up in the sky, it's someone that you killed with loot, right click on it to get the drop. Beam, time to loot. If there are foes nearby, you take caution, clear them first or just say "meh, it's not worth it move on". The idea that this is a "mistake", it's something they should "know better", is wrong. It's an exploit caused by a cartel market item allowing griefing. And should be a bannable offense. At a minimum, should be patched as fast as all the other exploits get patched. And the overal fix is, no automatic flagging.

[LordArtemis]

Actually, the tricks involved here, they may not know what they did. When you try to loot someone feigning death, you don't get a big red message "FOOLED YOU! YOU LOOTED SOMEONE FEIGNING DEATH" just suddenly you're in a fight and if it's a low level being ganked suddenly you're dead. If you heal someone you shouldn't, again, no big red message on what happened, just suddenly you're flagged.

 

Until this new thing was added, the rules were straightforward, everyone learned them early. If there's a glowing beam up in the sky, it's someone that you killed with loot, right click on it to get the drop. Beam, time to loot. If there are foes nearby, you take caution, clear them first or just say "meh, it's not worth it move on". The idea that this is a "mistake", it's something they should "know better", is wrong. It's an exploit caused by a cartel market item allowing griefing. And should be a bannable offense. At a minimum, should be patched as fast as all the other exploits get patched. And the overal fix is, no automatic flagging.

 

I disagree that it should be a bannable offense. It is lowly behavior certainly, but it is an allowed mechanic in the game. That doesn't mean I approve, only that I would rather see a mechanic in place to curb this type of behavior instead for those that wish to avoid it.

[Exosasa]

If you heal someone you shouldn't, again, no big red message on what happened, just suddenly you're flagged.

 

 

Why shouldn't you? You're interfering with PvP, therefore participating in it.

[GadgetDon]

Why shouldn't you? You're interfering with PvP, therefore participating in it.

 

If you see a PVP battle going on and heal someone in it, yes. If you're in a heroic and heal a teammate who happens to be flagged, no you aren't. Or even, you're just moving forward, see someone struggling in an NPC fight and throw a heal on them.

[HammerOneOne]

If you see a PVP battle going on and heal someone in it, yes. If you're in a heroic and heal a teammate who happens to be flagged, no you aren't. Or even, you're just moving forward, see someone struggling in an NPC fight and throw a heal on them.

 

If they're flagged they'll get no help from me. I won't even grouped with a flagged player. If you help someone who is flagged then you should get flagged. Otherwise PvPers will get griefed by someone assisting without risk of being attacked.

[EarnestBunbury]

if you do get autoflagged, you can que for a warzone, and quit out as soon as you get there..it will put you back unflagged.

 

Yes, lets f with all the people in Warzone cause BioFlail can't keep people from being FLAGGED when they don't WANT to be...

[LordArtemis]

If they're flagged they'll get no help from me. I won't even grouped with a flagged player. If you help someone who is flagged then you should get flagged. Otherwise PvPers will get griefed by someone assisting without risk of being attacked.

 

I have refused to group with flagged players in the past for this reason.

[MsMalice]

Honestly if there are people stupid enough to fall for feign death then they derserve to be flagged and killed.

[LordArtemis]

Honestly if there are people stupid enough to fall for feign death then they derserve to be flagged and killed.

 

Couldn't the same be said for those that involve themselves in this practice of trying to trick players? If they do this they deserve to be limited in what they can do?

 

There is plenty of foolishness on both sides of the fence here.

[well]

L20 and L40 sets are nice shells with PvE mods. The older versions of PvP tier gear were stripped off Expertise on update. At least now you have Obroan, you keep Obroan. That's why I am going to try to purchase the relics/wrists/belt before the expansion on as many chars as I can, instead of holding on to the comms.

 

And yes, that's what I am saying - a bolster will curtail griefing because a griefer doesn't seek a fair 1x1. The greifer wants to bully.

 

 

 

It's faster to enter the warzone and quit it. The flag goes away immediately. Or stay and fight if you do not wish to be a troll yourself. You will be teleported back to your questing location.

 

Most was. I have 140 with expertise. Not sure if it was BM. I have WH that was stripped. Also have a old set of Champions that still have it I believe. I just keep it for the heck of it.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yes, lets f with all the people in Warzone cause BioFlail can't keep people from being FLAGGED when they don't WANT to be...

 

think of it as incentive. the people causing this are pvpers. the are flagged for pvp..they want to pvp with others even if the others dont want too. they are proponents of ow pvp.

[tomatosquish]

Try paying attention to what you're doing and you won't fall for this. All of these "force" flag tricks are nothing more than taking advantage of stupidity.

 

Pay attention pay attention pay attention that is all I ever see in this thread from people defending this stupidity.

 

I was on Oricon on my marauder the other day, stunned a droid then went off to fight the rest of the mob it was with then hopped back to the droid. Some 10-15 seconds later when the droid was finally dead I turned back to see a bunch of blue, agreen, and a purple light coming from a pile of corpses. If it weren't for my right click on a player giving my class buffs instead of attacking I would have been suckered into a fight by a guy I couldn't even see because he was under the corpses yet for some reason he was the one I got when I clicked to loot. I got a error message and and he got up and ran off and I caught a glimps of 2 shadows moving through me.

 

 

I will admit my one experience was an extreme and not the norm. However given that I play on a PVE server not PVP I shouldn't have to worry about looting anything and suddenly being attacked by the 2 shadows behind me.

[MsMalice]

Couldn't the same be said for those that involve themselves in this practice of trying to trick players? If they do this they deserve to be limited in what they can do?

 

There is plenty of foolishness on both sides of the fence here.

 

Technically the flagged player is doing nothing wrong, he's using a regen item and it so happens he is doing it near a group of dead mobs. Sure, they do it in the hopes of tricking someone but it is the other players own fault if they fall for it. I hate to sound like an ***, but the simple solution here is don't be an idiot.

[EllieAnne]

1) it is easy to observe the FD effect under way.

2) it is a short term effect, that expires quickly, so come back to loot the corpse later. It's not like you do not have other mobs to kill in the area.

3) make a game out of it.... let the douche follow around flopping on corpses pointlessly, trying in vain to trick you.... while you simply double back a few yards and loot the one he is not currently napping on. Trust me.. a few minutes of this.. and the douche will move on to "greener pastures"

OR

you could just curl up in a ball on the ground and play victim.

The choice is yours to make.

 

And this sums up the mentality of the griefer. You see, I am the one that needs to change MY gameplay on a PvE server. I need to wait for him to finish his game. I need to go to kill other mobs and waste my time and come back so HE can play his little game. Why should I have to make a game out of it because of the douche. WHy can't I just play my SWTOR game like I want to?

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Technically the flagged player is doing nothing wrong, he's using a regen item and it so happens he is doing it near a group of dead mobs. Sure, they do it in the hopes of tricking someone but it is the other players own fault if they fall for it. I hate to sound like an ***, but the simple solution here is don't be an idiot.

 

Again, as many others have stated, it's not as simple as just "pay attention." Go look a few posts above yours. And the bigger point is they shouldn't have to pay attention. How can you call somebody an idiot because somebody exploited the fact that they were on a PVE server, in a PVE area, not expecting any PVP, to force flag them and attack them? How is it somebody's own fault if they don't play PVP and, thus, don't even know that they can be flagged that way? What if somebody hasn't heard of or seen this regen item? Let's just sweep that under the rug, they're idiots right? Get out of here with that crap.

 

The only idiots I see are the people trying to ignore this with a "simple solution." It's a goldmine for grieving and the people doing it are trying to ruin somebody else's enjoyment of the game. There's no other reason to do it and the example posted a few posts up shows exactly how scummy people are getting with it (hiding with a stealthed group so they'd have a numbers advantage and catch the person off guard). There's no defense for it and it's only being used for cheap laughs at the expense of other players. If you find other players being trolled and screwed with to be funny, that's on you. But Bioware shouldn't be pandering to grievers with this stuff to make it easier for trolls to force PVE'ers into PVP. Make the beam red and solve the problem.

[Teresabelle]

Are hazardous drivers intentionally putting themselves directly in front of me, slamming on their brakes, and swerving to make sure they remain in my path if I try to avoid them? Are they then attempting to blame me for not being careful enough, and that it is in fact my fault for causing an accident?

 

Insurance companies don't buy that and neither do I.

 

ACTUALLY......... if someone pulls out in front of you and slams their brakes, and you hit them.... you do get blamed. It's called failure to control the front end of your vehicle had an officer tell me that when he saw me nearly slam into a dude that did that. He said he was glad I was ok, and to remember that had I actually hit that moron I would've been the one getting a ticket and it would've went against my insurance.

[ivanhedgehog]

Technically the flagged player is doing nothing wrong, he's using a regen item and it so happens he is doing it near a group of dead mobs. Sure, they do it in the hopes of tricking someone but it is the other players own fault if they fall for it. I hate to sound like an ***, but the simple solution here is don't be an idiot.

 

he is exploiting a game mechanic..just like the people solo killing nim nefra.

[ivanhedgehog]

PvP Servers are that way ---------->. I guarantee you a game like what you are suggesting wouldn't even last two months.

 

some have tried and lasted...a couple of months

[Foambreaker]

some have tried and lasted...a couple of months

 

My God, Quit Weeping it was only 1 pixel death.

[DeLaaNie]

some have tried and lasted...a couple of months

 

Lol..

[LordArtemis]

Technically the flagged player is doing nothing wrong,

 

That is a pretty broad statement. I would actually say this instead...it could be argued that the player is not breaking the rules...perhaps. It's pretty obvious it is wrong, however.

 

My point is, so what if it is wrong. I would assume the player doing it knows what they are doing, is pretty underhanded and shouldn't be so childish as to try and excuse it...instead be a grownup and own it.

 

I would say "yes, I know it's wrong. But I'm doing it anyway. Sue me.".

 

So neither the player using the regen nor the player falling for it is demonstrating a high level of intelligence IMO. It's a pretty dumb thing all around.

 

There is no reputable argument against adding a mechanic to prevent this behavior that I have seen. However, it could be said that an element of danger exists and some folks would miss that danger.

 

But I do not feel that is a reason to anger what is likely a majority of players for the entertainment of a likely tiny minority with questionable motives.

 

There is also plenty of tears on both sides....players that want protection and players that want to keep it in place.

Edited November 25, 2014 by LordArtemis